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Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 17, 2016 10:51:22 GMT
Britain could have opted out at any time, we've chosen not to up until this point. What have we lost of ourselves over the last 40 years? Self determination for a start ! Ask yourself why have the British public suddenly over the last few months decided that they want out ? You are probably younger than someone like myself , you will not have witnessed the seed change that has gradually occurred in Britain over the last 40 odd years and certainly even more so in the last 20 since the EU expanded its membership to the former eastern bloc countries . We haven't had the referendum yet so the British public hasn't suddenly decided they want out, you're getting way ahead of yourself. I'm looking for a better answer than that 'seed of change' doesn't tell me anything. What have we lost?
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It's War!
Mar 17, 2016 11:09:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 11:09:25 GMT
Government exists to wage war on its people. What did we do to warrant such hatred!?! Signed up to citizenship...the biggest act of voluntary slavery possible!!
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It's War!
Mar 17, 2016 12:18:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 12:18:50 GMT
You obviously don't read the headlines . You don't see the shitty disgraceful mess our country has become ... When I grew up we had freedom . Now we have daily terrorist attacks , white males deliberately getting run over , we have taxi wars by Muslims , We have had Rotherham , Rochdale , Luton , Telford , people trafficking , several hundred active terrorist investigations , hundreds of slavery cases and you haven't got the brains to see what's happening . The reason is because you were born into it and I wasn't . I never had to endure or put up with some of the filth walking our streets and committing these crimes . Thats what The European Union has brought us and continues to bring us . You're welcome to it ....the freedom that they fought for during the war has now been forfeited for a disgraceful state of affairs and standards . You have no idea how much better life was back then ...and safer ,..and happier . But you're welcome to it .....I don't want any part of it . Everything comes at a price and the British public is paying for it ...both culturally , morally and financially . Long live Trump . I find it amazing that you've always got so much to say, and yet there's so little behind it. Once again you're banging on about the freedom that the solidiers fought for and you're completely wrong and shameful in doing so. The European Union was formally established in 1993, by choosing to remain in it up until this point we've exercised our freedom. By choosing to have a referendum we're exercising our freedom, the freedom the soldiers fought for so to suggest otherwise as you have continue to do so is laughable. Daily terrorist attacks? In this country? You're just making stuff up, there's no substance behind it. As for your other comments you've clearly done no research, reading the news doesn't count. The report below looks into race and ethnicty of those involved in the criminal justice system. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/480250/bulletin.pdfArticles like these below indicate 'The crime rate in England and Wales fell by 7% in 2014 to an estimated 6.9 million incidents, its lowest level since 1981, according to the latest official figures.'. So crime levels are at it's lowest level since 1981, well before the EU was formally formed in 1993, and you're blaming the influx of 'filth' from the EU causing our country to become a 'shitty disgraceful mess' which is again laughably incorrect. Life clearly wasn't 'safer' as you suggest before we entered the EU. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/23/crime-rate-ons-lowest-level-england-wales-policewww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30931732You might want to study the race related crime stats and terrorist attacks both in this county and country upto 1980 before you start pulling figures out of the sky. Without doing any research on this I would suggest that they have increased by many thousands of per cent....if tens of thousands. You see the problem hardly existed. Now it is a daily occurrence. That's why you are Barking up the wrong tree and trying to twist the argument to suit your agenda. Any way.... I'll have to go... The marshes beckon... A stress free zone that I have enjoyed for three decades..... Au revoir...and good luck with your race related and terrorist crime stats...
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 12:47:36 GMT
There are alot of offences now also which have been deemed not worthy of a prosecution through the courts .
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 17, 2016 12:51:11 GMT
Other nations also fought for freedom Hell yeah!
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 17, 2016 13:02:18 GMT
I find it amazing that you've always got so much to say, and yet there's so little behind it. Once again you're banging on about the freedom that the solidiers fought for and you're completely wrong and shameful in doing so. The European Union was formally established in 1993, by choosing to remain in it up until this point we've exercised our freedom. By choosing to have a referendum we're exercising our freedom, the freedom the soldiers fought for so to suggest otherwise as you have continue to do so is laughable. Daily terrorist attacks? In this country? You're just making stuff up, there's no substance behind it. As for your other comments you've clearly done no research, reading the news doesn't count. The report below looks into race and ethnicty of those involved in the criminal justice system. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/480250/bulletin.pdfArticles like these below indicate 'The crime rate in England and Wales fell by 7% in 2014 to an estimated 6.9 million incidents, its lowest level since 1981, according to the latest official figures.'. So crime levels are at it's lowest level since 1981, well before the EU was formally formed in 1993, and you're blaming the influx of 'filth' from the EU causing our country to become a 'shitty disgraceful mess' which is again laughably incorrect. Life clearly wasn't 'safer' as you suggest before we entered the EU. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/23/crime-rate-ons-lowest-level-england-wales-policewww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30931732You might want to study the race related crime stats and terrorist attacks both in this county and country upto 1980 before you start pulling figures out of the sky. Without doing any research on this I would suggest that they have increased by many thousands of per cent....if tens of thousands. You see the problem hardly existed. Now it is a daily occurrence. That's why you are Barking up the wrong tree and trying to twist the argument to suit your agenda. Any way.... I'll have to go... The marshes beckon... A stress free zone that I have enjoyed for three decades..... Au revoir...and good luck with your race related and terrorist crime stats... Terrorism in Western Europe was a much bigger issue in the 70s than today.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 17, 2016 13:15:08 GMT
I find it amazing that you've always got so much to say, and yet there's so little behind it. Once again you're banging on about the freedom that the solidiers fought for and you're completely wrong and shameful in doing so. The European Union was formally established in 1993, by choosing to remain in it up until this point we've exercised our freedom. By choosing to have a referendum we're exercising our freedom, the freedom the soldiers fought for so to suggest otherwise as you have continue to do so is laughable. Daily terrorist attacks? In this country? You're just making stuff up, there's no substance behind it. As for your other comments you've clearly done no research, reading the news doesn't count. The report below looks into race and ethnicty of those involved in the criminal justice system. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/480250/bulletin.pdfArticles like these below indicate 'The crime rate in England and Wales fell by 7% in 2014 to an estimated 6.9 million incidents, its lowest level since 1981, according to the latest official figures.'. So crime levels are at it's lowest level since 1981, well before the EU was formally formed in 1993, and you're blaming the influx of 'filth' from the EU causing our country to become a 'shitty disgraceful mess' which is again laughably incorrect. Life clearly wasn't 'safer' as you suggest before we entered the EU. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/23/crime-rate-ons-lowest-level-england-wales-policewww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30931732You might want to study the race related crime stats and terrorist attacks both in this county and country upto 1980 before you start pulling figures out of the sky. Without doing any research on this I would suggest that they have increased by many thousands of per cent....if tens of thousands. You see the problem hardly existed. Now it is a daily occurrence. That's why you are Barking up the wrong tree and trying to twist the argument to suit your agenda. Any way.... I'll have to go... The marshes beckon... A stress free zone that I have enjoyed for three decades..... Au revoir...and good luck with your race related and terrorist crime stats... Why are you going on about terrorist attacks and why are you including them in this debate concerning the EU? It's not relevant, but I'm happy to pick apart your deeply flawed logic. Take a look at the 7/7 bombings in 2005 London which is one the most significant terrorist attack in years. Three of the bombers were British born sons of Pakistani immigrants, the other was a convert born in Jamaica. You also seem to be conveniently leaving out terrorist attacks committed by the IRA. Lets look at a timeline of terrorist attacks involving violence or a serious threat to life in Britain. 1970's - 19 such instances mostly IRA, one involved the group Black September who killed an Israeli Diplomat 1980's - 11 such instances again the IRA feature prominently, Iranians, Israeli and African related terrorist attacks also feature 1990's - 25 such instances again mostly attributed to the IRA, one of the few ones that isn't the IRA is down to a British guy called David Copeland setting off nail bombs that target Bangladesh and Gay communities. 2000's - 11 such instances, of these 7 attributed to the IRA, 3 are related to Islam and the other is a British guy called Miles Cooper. 2010 - 3 such instances. 1 of these is a Ukranian student wanting to start a race war by targeting Muslims, the others are the killers of Lee Rigby (both born in England) and the Leytonstone tube knife attacks. When exactly are you claiming that life is supposed to have been 'safer'? How is the EU to blame for this? By the way the number of terrorist related crimes is very likely to have gone up in recent times, this will be because of the Terrorism Acts which were passed in 2000 which is a huge mitigating factor. You mentioned barking up the wrong tree and twisting the argument, you most certainly are yes.
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 13:17:57 GMT
Well the simplest solution is, if we vote out then those who want to stay in are quite free to move to an EU country and enjoy its splendours. Cant be any fairer than that.
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 17, 2016 13:24:45 GMT
You might want to study the race related crime stats and terrorist attacks both in this county and country upto 1980 before you start pulling figures out of the sky. Without doing any research on this I would suggest that they have increased by many thousands of per cent....if tens of thousands. You see the problem hardly existed. Now it is a daily occurrence. That's why you are Barking up the wrong tree and trying to twist the argument to suit your agenda. Any way.... I'll have to go... The marshes beckon... A stress free zone that I have enjoyed for three decades..... Au revoir...and good luck with your race related and terrorist crime stats... Why are you going on about terrorist attacks and why are you including them in this debate concerning the EU? It's not relevant, but I'm happy to pick apart your deeply flawed logic. Take a look at the 7/7 bombings in 2005 London which is one the most significant terrorist attack in years. Three of the bombers were British born sons of Pakistani immigrants, the other was a convert born in Jamaica. You also seem to be conveniently leaving out terrorist attacks committed by the IRA. Lets look at a timeline of terrorist attacks involving violence or a serious threat to life in Britain. 1970's - 19 such instances mostly IRA, one involved the group Black September who killed an Israeli Diplomat 1980's - 11 such instances again the IRA feature prominently, Iranians, Israeli and African related terrorist attacks also feature 1990's - 25 such instances again mostly attributed to the IRA, one of the few ones that isn't the IRA is down to a British guy called David Copeland setting off nail bombs that target Bangladesh and Gay communities. 2000's - 11 such instances, of these 7 attributed to the IRA, 3 are related to Islam and the other is a British guy called Miles Cooper. 2010 - 3 such instances. 1 of these is a Ukranian student wanting to start a race war by targeting Muslims, the others are the killers of Lee Rigby (both born in England) and the Leytonstone tube knife attacks. When exactly are you claiming that life is supposed to have been 'safer'? How is the EU to blame for this? By the way the number of terrorist related crimes is very likely to have gone up in recent times, this will be because of the Terrorism Acts which were passed in 2000 which is a huge mitigating factor. You mentioned barking up the wrong tree and twisting the argument, you most certainly are yes. Barking is a good word when thinking about Mumf.
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Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 13:39:55 GMT
Patrick ...we know you get hot and sweaty over anything I say....Muslim related or otherwise ....but the fact is that there are 300 terrorist suspects entering our borders every day .... So don't get your knickers in a twist my dear ...
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Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 13:42:52 GMT
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It's War!
Mar 17, 2016 14:04:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 17, 2016 14:04:05 GMT
EU policies aim to ensure the free movement of people, goods, services, and capital, enact legislation in justice and home affairs, and maintain common policies on trade, agriculture, fisheries, and regional development. I think it's pretty shameful of you to bring in the sacrifices of our soldiers in two world wars into this debate because the purpose of the EU as described above is to promote freedom between the member states, ironically enough to try and get rid of the extreme nationalism which led to the world wars in the first place. It was the sacrifices made by our servicemen in two World Wars that enabled Europe to become a free and democratic ( of sorts ) society that we are part of today, without those sacrifices there would not be an E.U. , it can never be shameful to remind people of those sacrifices made by our fathers and it can not be considered irrelevant because it was from a different era .....the past has been very instrumental in creating the Europe we have today . I agree with you Bish. I have never been able to understand how anyone who has an interest in politics, can simply agree to giving away our democracy. Those who have sacrificed their lives for freedom, do need to be considered. It is about democracy for me, everything else is secondary. It cannot be put any better than by Tony Benn: Speech in London (6 June 1974).This huge Commission building in Brussels, in the shape of a cross, is absolutely un-British. I felt as if I were going as a slave to Rome; the whole relationship was wrong. Here was I, an elected man who could be removed, doing a job, and here were these people with more power than I had and no accountability to anybody...My visit confirmed in a practical way all my suspicions that this would be the decapitation of British democracy without any countervailing advantage, and the British people, quite rightly, wouldn't accept it. There is no real benefit for Britain.Diary entry (18 June 1974), quoted fromAgainst the Tide. Diaries 1973-1976(London: Hutchinson, 1989), p. 180, p. 182.Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975)
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Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 14:08:12 GMT
Im still waiting for the race related crime stats in stoke pre 1980 as opposed to "the victims of terrorist attacks " in western europe.... Unbelievable Jeff ....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 17, 2016 14:08:18 GMT
On consideration of our membership I would also ask , if we weren't already in, would we be fighting to get in , at the present time, under the current terms and in light of the fact that people are beginning to become aware of what we have sleep walked into?
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Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 14:20:10 GMT
It was the sacrifices made by our servicemen in two World Wars that enabled Europe to become a free and democratic ( of sorts ) society that we are part of today, without those sacrifices there would not be an E.U. , it can never be shameful to remind people of those sacrifices made by our fathers and it can not be considered irrelevant because it was from a different era .....the past has been very instrumental in creating the Europe we have today . I agree with you Bish. I have never been able to understand how anyone who has an interest in politics, can simply agree to giving away our democracy. Those who have sacrificed their lives for freedom, do need to be considered. It is about democracy for me, everything else is secondary. It cannot be put any better than by Tony Benn: Speech in London (6 June 1974).This huge Commission building in Brussels, in the shape of a cross, is absolutely un-British. I felt as if I were going as a slave to Rome; the whole relationship was wrong. Here was I, an elected man who could be removed, doing a job, and here were these people with more power than I had and no accountability to anybody...My visit confirmed in a practical way all my suspicions that this would be the decapitation of British democracy without any countervailing advantage, and the British people, quite rightly, wouldn't accept it. There is no real benefit for Britain.Diary entry (18 June 1974), quoted fromAgainst the Tide. Diaries 1973-1976(London: Hutchinson, 1989), p. 180, p. 182.Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975) It shouldnt come as any great surprise john when you read the 'Canute type" logic espoused by the two Huffington post contributors above . Not only do they fail to understand the real concerns but then produce data that i s not applicable to the original point . They then have the audacity to take thehigh moral ground in the vain hope that they think its clever and correct . This country is on the brink of a major terrorist attack as was announced by the security council last week but they are oblivious to all of this . They would rather allow anything and everything across our borders unchecked because they are both that naive . Many EU countries are now reaping the rewards of this flawed logic ,hence the gunboats now patrling off the Syrian coastline .
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 14:26:34 GMT
I cant imagine what motivates anyone to be in favour of remaining in this den of fraud and inneficiency. The only real beneficiaries are the corporations, the bankers lackeys ie the comissioners and the lap dogs in westminster. Weve heard all the bullshit about trade ceasing. yeah right. We wont be able to travel for our holidays. Well, we always could before the common market vote. Theres nothing that benefits ordinary people simply because they dont want you to benefit. You are there as the servant of the system and nothing more.
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 14:28:45 GMT
I agree with you Bish. I have never been able to understand how anyone who has an interest in politics, can simply agree to giving away our democracy. Those who have sacrificed their lives for freedom, do need to be considered. It is about democracy for me, everything else is secondary. It cannot be put any better than by Tony Benn: Speech in London (6 June 1974).This huge Commission building in Brussels, in the shape of a cross, is absolutely un-British. I felt as if I were going as a slave to Rome; the whole relationship was wrong. Here was I, an elected man who could be removed, doing a job, and here were these people with more power than I had and no accountability to anybody...My visit confirmed in a practical way all my suspicions that this would be the decapitation of British democracy without any countervailing advantage, and the British people, quite rightly, wouldn't accept it. There is no real benefit for Britain.Diary entry (18 June 1974), quoted fromAgainst the Tide. Diaries 1973-1976(London: Hutchinson, 1989), p. 180, p. 182.Britain's continuing membership of the Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation and the end of our democratically elected Parliament as the supreme law making body in the United Kingdom.Letter to Bristol constituents (29 December 1974).We have confused the real issue of parliamentary democracy, for already there has been a fundamental change. The power of electors over their law-makers has gone, the power of MPs over Ministers has gone, the role of Ministers has changed. The real case for entry has never been spelled out, which is that there should be a fully federal Europe in which we become a province. It hasn't been spelled out because people would never accept it. We are at the moment on a federal escalator, moving as we talk, going towards a federal objective we do not wish to reach. In practice, Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a capitalist or market economy theology. This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us in. Jim quoted Benjamin Franklin, so let me do the same: "He who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary security deserves neither safety nor liberty." The Common Market will break up the UK because there will be no valid argument against an independent Scotland, with its own Ministers and Commissioner, enjoying Common Market membership. We shall be choosing between the unity of the UK and the unity of the EEC. It will impose appalling strains on the Labour movement...I believe that we want independence and democratic self-government, and I hope the Cabinet in due course will think again.Speech given in the Cabinet meeting to discuss Britain's membership of the EEC, as recorded in his diary (18 March 1975) It shouldnt come as any great surprise john when you read the 'Canute type" logic espoused by the two Huffington post contributors above . Not only do they fail to understand the real concerns but then produce data that i s not applicable to the original point . They then have the audacity to take thehigh moral ground in the vain hope that they think its clever and correct . This country is on the brink of a major terrorist attack as was announced by the security council last week but they are oblivious to all of this . They would rather allow anything and everything across our borders unchecked because they are both that naive . Many EU countries are now reaping the rewards of this flawed logic ,hence the gunboats now patrling off the Syrian coastline . You missed Grimseys post about where he said that you hadnt done your research and news articles dont count and then posted two links to ....news articles to get his point over
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Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 14:33:18 GMT
I look cant imagine what motivates anyone to be in favour of remaining in this den of fraud and inneficiency. The only real beneficiaries are the corporations, the bankers lackeys ie the comissioners and the lap dogs in westminster. Weve heard all the bullshit about trade ceasing. yeah right. We wont be able to travel for our holidays. Well, we always could before the common market vote. Theres nothing that benefits ordinary people simply because they dont want you to benefit. You are there as the servant of the system and nothing more. .......To say nothing about the detrimental costs incurred by myself in having to put my snorkel and flippers on Ebay cus Im not safe to swim in the Red Sea anymore ....or other eastern mediterraean countries . Its a bugger ....at this rate I might have bunk up with Bisp in his cave on the Canaries....although he does serve nice whiskey I believe .
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Post by mumf on Mar 17, 2016 14:40:25 GMT
It shouldnt come as any great surprise john when you read the 'Canute type" logic espoused by the two Huffington post contributors above . Not only do they fail to understand the real concerns but then produce data that i s not applicable to the original point . They then have the audacity to take thehigh moral ground in the vain hope that they think its clever and correct . This country is on the brink of a major terrorist attack as was announced by the security council last week but they are oblivious to all of this . They would rather allow anything and everything across our borders unchecked because they are both that naive . Many EU countries are now reaping the rewards of this flawed logic ,hence the gunboats now patrling off the Syrian coastline . You missed Grimseys post about where he said that you hadnt done your research and news articles dont count and then posted two links to ....news articles to get his point over I didnt need to do any reasearch ....I already knew what the estimated amount of terrorists entering the country was. Its all been well publlicised and the data he produced wasnt anything to do with the 'race' related crime stats in our county and country '. Its the attention to detail ....
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 14:40:56 GMT
This is what they do in Portugal if you dare speak ill of the EU
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Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 17, 2016 15:49:42 GMT
You missed Grimseys post about where he said that you hadnt done your research and news articles dont count and then posted two links to ....news articles to get his point over I didnt need to do any reasearch ....I already knew what the estimated amount of terrorists entering the country was. Its all been well publlicised and the data he produced wasnt anything to do with the 'race' related crime stats in our county and country '. Its the attention to detail .... 'Estimated terrorists' is interesting. How do they know they're terrorists unless there's any evidence? If there is evidence that they are terrorists then why haven't they been detained/charged?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 15:49:50 GMT
Self determination for a start ! Ask yourself why have the British public suddenly over the last few months decided that they want out ? You are probably younger than someone like myself , you will not have witnessed the seed change that has gradually occurred in Britain over the last 40 odd years and certainly even more so in the last 20 since the EU expanded its membership to the former eastern bloc countries . We haven't had the referendum yet so the British public hasn't suddenly decided they want out, you're getting way ahead of yourself. I'm looking for a better answer than that 'seed of change' doesn't tell me anything. What have we lost? True we have not had the referendum yet , but it's impossible to deny the surge in public opinion towards leaving .......we have changed from being a great nation that was for generations able to determine its own way in the world to being a mere cog in the machine that is the EU governed by faceless beurocrats in Brussels .....in short we have lost a lot of our national identity and will continue to do so in my opinion , Please don't come looking for answers from me , my views are a personal opinion and I'm not seeking to put them across as fact .....draw your own conclusions and vote on them accordingly as will I .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 15:52:35 GMT
I look cant imagine what motivates anyone to be in favour of remaining in this den of fraud and inneficiency. The only real beneficiaries are the corporations, the bankers lackeys ie the comissioners and the lap dogs in westminster. Weve heard all the bullshit about trade ceasing. yeah right. We wont be able to travel for our holidays. Well, we always could before the common market vote. Theres nothing that benefits ordinary people simply because they dont want you to benefit. You are there as the servant of the system and nothing more. .......To say nothing about the detrimental costs incurred by myself in having to put my snorkel and flippers on Ebay cus Im not safe to swim in the Red Sea anymore ....or other eastern mediterraean countries . Its a bugger ....at this rate I might have bunk up with Bisp in his cave on the Canaries....although he does serve nice whiskey I believe . There may be a surcharge imposed on the serving of whiskey in caves ....it's an EU thing I believe ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 15:54:09 GMT
Other nations also fought for freedom Hell yeah! Looks a little like Dwayne Bravo when he took his wickets yesterday !
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Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 17, 2016 15:54:24 GMT
It shouldnt come as any great surprise john when you read the 'Canute type" logic espoused by the two Huffington post contributors above . Not only do they fail to understand the real concerns but then produce data that i s not applicable to the original point . They then have the audacity to take thehigh moral ground in the vain hope that they think its clever and correct . This country is on the brink of a major terrorist attack as was announced by the security council last week but they are oblivious to all of this . They would rather allow anything and everything across our borders unchecked because they are both that naive . Many EU countries are now reaping the rewards of this flawed logic ,hence the gunboats now patrling off the Syrian coastline . You missed Grimseys post about where he said that you hadnt done your research and news articles dont count and then posted two links to ....news articles to get his point over Fair enough point, I was really just trying to comment that he hasn't done any proper research. If news articles back up your argument I'm happy for them to be used in this debate. I felt it was appropriate to link the articles because they were commenting on research that had been carried out.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 17, 2016 15:56:00 GMT
We haven't had the referendum yet so the British public hasn't suddenly decided they want out, you're getting way ahead of yourself. I'm looking for a better answer than that 'seed of change' doesn't tell me anything. What have we lost? True we have not had the referendum yet , but it's impossible to deny the surge in public opinion towards leaving .......we have changed from being a great nation that was for generations able to determine its own way in the world to being a mere cog in the machine that is the EU governed by faceless beurocrats in Brussels .....in short we have lost a lot of our national identity and will continue to do so in my opinion , Please don't come looking for answers from me , my views are a personal opinion and I'm not seeking to put them across as fact .....draw your own conclusions and vote on them accordingly as will I . Has there been a surge towards leaving? Have you seen any polls or anything that back up such a view?
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 15:56:43 GMT
Im interested what Corbyns official position is on this. Either hes to frightened to lay out his position, or more likely he's weighing up the labour voter position to get a picture of that and also the trade unions who are now all over the TTIP agreement especially in the public sector and will make his announcement based on that.
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Post by desman2 on Mar 17, 2016 15:58:05 GMT
You missed Grimseys post about where he said that you hadnt done your research and news articles dont count and then posted two links to ....news articles to get his point over Fair enough point, I was really just trying to comment that he hasn't done any proper research. If news articles back up your argument I'm happy for them to be used in this debate. I felt it was appropriate to link the articles because they were commenting on research that had been carried out. Was just kidding Rick. Im in agreement with those particular situations having lived through them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 16:29:11 GMT
True we have not had the referendum yet , but it's impossible to deny the surge in public opinion towards leaving .......we have changed from being a great nation that was for generations able to determine its own way in the world to being a mere cog in the machine that is the EU governed by faceless beurocrats in Brussels .....in short we have lost a lot of our national identity and will continue to do so in my opinion , Please don't come looking for answers from me , my views are a personal opinion and I'm not seeking to put them across as fact .....draw your own conclusions and vote on them accordingly as will I . Has there been a surge towards leaving? Have you seen any polls or anything that back up such a view? Let's try and not be too pendantic about this .....no I haven't seen any polls and to be honest I don't give opinion polls much credence anyway , but the general concensus that I hear from listening to people by and large gives the impression that there is a surge towards leaving .....of course I may have got the wrong impression completely , we will have to wait until the event in June takes place for an accurate appraisal . I don't think that there is anything more that I can say about it .
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 17, 2016 17:49:13 GMT
Patrick ...we know you get hot and sweaty over anything I say....Muslim related or otherwise ....but the fact is that there are 300 terrorist suspects entering our borders every day .... So don't get your knickers in a twist my dear ... Welcome back fella.
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