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Post by mumf on Mar 9, 2016 20:21:46 GMT
......in the lead up to the EU referendum in order to finally decide which way to vote. ?
Is there anything that they can conclusively prove to us that has not yet been divulged ?
Is it not better to use the historical references / experiences over the period since we joined and decide if we want to continue down this road ?
What are the most crucial and important issues for you ?
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Post by 828492 on Mar 9, 2016 20:27:53 GMT
As the great, late Claude Cockburn used to say. Whenever you hear a politician speaking, ask yourself the question, 'Why is this bastard lying to me?'
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Post by desman2 on Mar 9, 2016 21:24:33 GMT
How can anyone call Cameron an utter liar for the last 6 years but believe anything he says now. Yet some idiots will
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Post by mumf on Mar 9, 2016 21:38:47 GMT
How can anyone call Cameron an utter liar for the last 6 years but believe anything he says now. Yet some idiots will Yes indeed....and the other leading politicians arent much better either .
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 10, 2016 7:04:06 GMT
Personal experience / attitudes / preferences will be the major determining factor because I don't see there being any clear decisive answer to any question. Both sides will claim life is better in their world and worse in their opponents and will find expert advice and statistics to back it up.
This is how it was in the Scottish referendum - except there there was one colossal problem for the independence folk; currency and by implication the economy. That argument, or at least the clarity of it, does not apply this time round.
Folk should be confident in their own judgement and vote accordingly.
Bottom line is there is no right or wrong here.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 10, 2016 7:36:53 GMT
Politicians can rant all they want. For me it isn't about the short term problems of immigration, jobs. Trade etc. It's about the long term future of being in control of our own destiny and getting back our democratic rights. At present it doesn't matter who is voted into government because there is a higher unelected body in Europe dictating our way of life and overruling legislation brought in by our own elected government. For me that's plain wrong.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 10, 2016 8:14:27 GMT
Politicians can rant all they want. For me it isn't about the short term problems of immigration, jobs. Trade etc. It's about the long term future of being in control of our own destiny and getting back our democratic rights. At present it doesn't matter who is voted into government because there is a higher unelected body in Europe dictating our way of life and overruling legislation brought in by our own elected government. For me that's plain wrong. I agree with most of your post however the short term problems are inexorably linked to our long term future, they are a part of the problem we are experiencing under the control of the EU, we sort the short term issues get out of the EU the long term will sort itself as we will have control of our own destiny. At the moment we might as well not have an elected government in the UK as they are rendered toothless by the EU political machine.
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Post by mumf on Mar 10, 2016 9:39:07 GMT
I've heard there's a little booklet being released by the government extolling the virtues of staying in Europe for us all to absorb and vote accordingly .... Meanwhile , Nige is planning to print some pictures of Angela Merkel waving to the 1 million immigrants that have entered Germany over the last 12 months and the protests that ensued . As for Clegg ......His wife has bought him a Lego set to rebuild his future .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2016 12:18:29 GMT
I think we should listen to the queen. She knows what's right for us! I don't trust politicians at all. They are all in it for themselves!
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Post by desman2 on Mar 10, 2016 12:31:14 GMT
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Post by desman2 on Mar 10, 2016 17:30:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2016 17:36:08 GMT
That won't help tiny penis, desman!
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 10, 2016 19:02:10 GMT
You know when a politicion is lying,their lips move. In Camerons case,this could be difficult,seeing he ain't got any lips.
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Post by Billybigbollox on Mar 10, 2016 19:49:51 GMT
You know when a politicion is lying,there lips move. In Camerons case,this could be difficult,seeing he ain't got any lips. Don't be so hard on him Staffs, he is a fellow footie fan. He supports, West Ham, errr Villa, no Burnley, or Scunthorpe. Well someone who plays in Claret and blue anyway.
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 10, 2016 21:39:43 GMT
All politicians are on the fiddle and those who dont believe this are naive in the extreme
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2016 22:21:06 GMT
To be honest I think this knob is growing.
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Post by lordb on Mar 10, 2016 22:25:35 GMT
We should listen to Stuart Lee
"Quakers been in again"
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Post by desman2 on Mar 10, 2016 22:43:27 GMT
This is Camerons logic. Leave the EU and the loss of business will cost us a million jobs, however as we have a trade defecit, surely by his logic the EU countries we trade with would lose considerably more jobs as their business went down. Im sure all those businesses will be itching to lose our business with them.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 10, 2016 22:49:02 GMT
This is Camerons logic. Leave the EU and the loss of business will cost us a million jobs, however as we have a trade defecit, surely by his logic the EU countries we trade with would lose considerably more jobs as their business went down. Im sure all those businesses will be itching to lose our business with them. Well at least that will be a million migrants that we do not need, winner winner chicken dinner fcuk the EU put Britain first.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 10, 2016 23:08:14 GMT
This is Camerons logic. Leave the EU and the loss of business will cost us a million jobs, however as we have a trade defecit, surely by his logic the EU countries we trade with would lose considerably more jobs as their business went down. Im sure all those businesses will be itching to lose our business with them. Well at least that will be a million migrants that we do not need, winner winner chicken dinner fcuk the EU put Britain first. Sorry, can you remind us all when it is that you are leaving Britain to live in Spain?
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Post by mumf on Mar 10, 2016 23:24:19 GMT
Well at least that will be a million migrants that we do not need, winner winner chicken dinner fcuk the EU put Britain first. Sorry, can you remind us all when it is that you are leaving Britain to live in Spain? Are you against people emigrating for a better life ? Can you remind us of your position on immigration ? He's taking his own money and buying his own house . He is not relying on state benefits .
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 11, 2016 0:30:59 GMT
Sorry, can you remind us all when it is that you are leaving Britain to live in Spain? Are you against people emigrating for a better life ? Can you remind us of your position on immigration ? He's taking his own money and buying his own house . He is not relying on state benefits . How would you need to be "reminded" of my stance on immigration when you've only made 260 odd posts? Unless of course you're someone else...eh Mumf? Ooops...found out.
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Post by mumf on Mar 11, 2016 0:49:30 GMT
So ....You expect other legitimate honest posters to do something you yourself are not prepared to do yourself ?
You'd rather cast aspersions against another in the pathetic hope that it will in some way cast you in a better light .
Why don't you just 'come out ' and spill the beans ? "Oops ....found out ? "....Ha ha ha ....!
It's very simple ....no comprehension skills required .
Only two sentences maximum .....no problem even for a teacher ?
Who's on the defensive now eh ?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 11, 2016 0:56:36 GMT
So ....You expect other legitimate honest posters to do something you yourself are not prepared to do yourself ? You'd rather cast aspersions against another in the pathetic hope that it will in some way cast you in a better light . Why don't you just 'come out ' and spill the beans ? Oops ....found out ? Ha ha ha ....! It's very simple ....no comprehension skills required . Only two sentences maximum .....no problem even for a teacher ? Who's on the defensive now eh ? Well as I was replying to carpslayer, not sure why you had to stick your oar in. Usual nonsense from you I see, along with the ranting, raving and hints of homophobia. Were you banned permanently before or did you take a "rest"??
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Post by mumf on Mar 11, 2016 1:02:32 GMT
Let's be very clear ....You have not answered the question .
You prefer to draw on other avenues of excuses like Homophobia .....
Are you of that persuasion ?
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Post by mumf on Mar 11, 2016 1:13:51 GMT
While you're still there ....pondering your damage limitation excuses along with homophobic accusations ....
Where's the ranting and raving ?
The last time I had Rave was with a divorcee in Bentilee ....It even rhymes ...! circa 1980 summat .....
How about you ?
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Post by pearo on Mar 11, 2016 1:22:54 GMT
Tony Blair lied to me about weapons of mass destruction, Gordon Brown lied to me about his finacial acumen, Nick Clegg lied to me about education, David Cameron lied to me about the NHS. There are many other lies told by our politicians, and at each General Election I have the right to vote the way I want to to try and influence the way our country is governed. Now I only have one vote, but it's my vote to use as I choose and all of us eligible to vote have the same options. Our electoral system may have flaws but it allows a certain amount of accountability to our politicians. Unfortunately when Jean-Claude Junker lies to me there is nothing I can do about it, he and his fellow euro bureaucrats, elected to their positions by other euro bureaucrats, lie and cheat and I have no influence over what they do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 2:38:49 GMT
Beeing in Europe does have its benefits and I can realise theese when we are told them, but in my view it costs us more than we put in, it's undemocratic, it's becoming a super state and watering down the powers and sovereignty of its member countries. It's apparently a once in a decade vote, if we vote to remain inside the EU we shall see more powers going to Brussels, Turkey me coming a member, opening the flood gates and freedom of movement to a nation of 75+ million people. To me the cost far out ways the benefits of remaining. I can't see mass unemployment and a financial crash if we were to leave. It's a leap into the unknown yes but not an apocalyptic event.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 11, 2016 8:24:26 GMT
Well at least that will be a million migrants that we do not need, winner winner chicken dinner fcuk the EU put Britain first. Sorry, can you remind us all when it is that you are leaving Britain to live in Spain? Not sure why anyone else needs reminding as I said before to you it will be this year fingers crossed when my pension is sorted, I am fighting for my enhancement payments through the courts not that it is any of your business by the way, I will be living off my own money that I have earned, I will not be reliant on the Spanish tax payers/state to house me and my family , I will not be claiming any benefits of any kind from the Spanish state, I will be totally financially independent. Now let's talk about you, are you claiming any state or council benefits ?, did you lose your pension when you left the teaching profession ? are you living in a home that you own outright ? what are your plans for your future ?, who is the source of the confidential information you claim to have on other posters ?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 11, 2016 10:49:08 GMT
Sorry, can you remind us all when it is that you are leaving Britain to live in Spain? Not sure why anyone else needs reminding as I said before to you it will be this year fingers crossed when my pension is sorted, I am fighting for my enhancement payments through the courts not that it is any of your business by the way, I will be living off my own money that I have earned, I will not be reliant on the Spanish tax payers/state to house me and my family , I will not be claiming any benefits of any kind from the Spanish state, I will be totally financially independent. Now let's talk about you, are you claiming any state or council benefits ?, did you lose your pension when you left the teaching profession ? are you living in a home that you own outright ? what are your plans for your future ?, who is the source of the confidential information you claim to have on other posters ? My business is none of your business. However your hypocrisy regarding "keeping britain great" while pissing off to be an immigrant in Spain is quite frankly, breathtaking.
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