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Post by mumf on Feb 29, 2016 20:53:06 GMT
So often we see forwards who go down after no contact from the opposing defender but their trailing leg then manages to make contact with the defenders leg or body.
My question is simply this.... The contact was deliberate by the attacking player in order to get said penalty and even though " contact was made " it should never have been awarded and the referee shouldn't have awarded it. He was simply conned
Am I right or wrong?
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Post by werrington on Feb 29, 2016 20:56:10 GMT
Michael Owen v Argentina v a classic example and Damian Duff was a master at it
First time I ever saw it was Batistuta v England at France 98
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 29, 2016 20:58:30 GMT
It's often a bit of both, these things are rarely completely clear-cut.
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Post by jaybee on Feb 29, 2016 21:05:12 GMT
Compare and contrast ... Tom Cleverley carried on running into JB = penno and goal The guy from Chelsea who used to play for Newcastle (or was it QPR?), jumped over JB = no penno, no goal Sadly the option to 'invite the foul' / 'leave a foot in' (aka cheating) is rife and difficult to tell
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 21:09:05 GMT
You are right, old people like me call it cheating, younger people call it winning a penalty.
A moral dilemma as it may be considered "Your Job" to use any tactics to win a game for your team as that is what you are paid for.
It was noted by Venger of all people that Barca players always "Shouted Out " as they were fouled to make sure the Ref knew about it
For me I'd rather lose than cheat, what is more worrying is that so called "Top Teams" are obviously coaching this to the extent that it has become accepted practice and part of the game.
Crossover lines of an enjoyable sport played for enjoyment becoming a job , played for cash.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 21:25:24 GMT
Cheating is rife in the game. It get's on my nerves to be honest.
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Post by pottersrule on Feb 29, 2016 21:27:32 GMT
Michael Owen v Argentina v a classic example and Damian Duff was a master at it First time I ever saw it was Batistuta v England at France 98 Could say the same with Bojan v Swansea.
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Post by pottersrule on Feb 29, 2016 21:28:55 GMT
So often we see forwards who go down after no contact from the opposing defender but their trailing leg then manages to make contact with the defenders leg or body. My question is simply this.... The contact was deliberate by the attacking player in order to get said penalty and even though " contact was made " it should never have been awarded and the referee shouldn't have awarded it. He was simply conned Am I right or wrong? You are right except when Bojan does it.
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Post by mumf on Feb 29, 2016 21:35:01 GMT
Expanding the the argument even further......
Can a foul be awarded if no contact whatsoever has been made .....?
There are plenty of examples of this too .!
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 29, 2016 21:55:24 GMT
Ric used to do a great straight legged fall
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 22:07:01 GMT
It's always been my opinion that if the attacking player deliberately leaves his trailing leg in, then he's deliberately kicking the defender. The ref should give a free-kick to the defender. The attacking player has dived, so that's a yellow card, and he's also deliberately kicked the defender, so second yellow card and off you go.
The media wouldn't allow this because they're obsessed with creating more goals by giving penalties for imaginary offences, and the governing body is to weak to back referees to do the right thing, else they'd have given a directive about this a long time ago. It's a cheats' charter.
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Post by raythesailor on Feb 29, 2016 22:16:46 GMT
You are right, old people like me call it cheating, younger people call it winning a penalty. A moral dilemma as it may be considered "Your Job" to use any tactics to win a game for your team as that is what you are paid for. It was noted by Venger of all people that Barca players always "Shouted Out " as they were fouled to make sure the Ref knew about it For me I'd rather lose than cheat, what is more worrying is that so called "Top Teams" are obviously coaching this to the extent that it has become accepted practice and part of the game. Crossover lines of an enjoyable sport played for enjoyment becoming a job , played for cash. Totally spot on. Players are now looking to win a pen/free kick by waiting for a defender to commit to a tackle and then running into them to get the decision. Let us not mince our words. This is cheating. It is now so prevalent as most fans accept this as normal. (They may not have played but only watched the game to take this attitude. ) This is spoiling the game and spreading a cheating and getting away with it mentality at the expense of FOOTBALL & THE GAME THAT WE LOVE!!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2016 22:17:23 GMT
So often we see forwards who go down after no contact from the opposing defender but their trailing leg then manages to make contact with the defenders leg or body. My question is simply this.... The contact was deliberate by the attacking player in order to get said penalty and even though " contact was made " it should never have been awarded and the referee shouldn't have awarded it. He was simply conned Am I right or wrong? Spot on.It's one of the things which has spoilt the game, it's become an acceptable part of the tactics
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Post by Cast no shadow on Feb 29, 2016 22:19:04 GMT
If the legs leave a natural running movement, it shouldnt be a pen imo
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Post by mumf on Feb 29, 2016 22:30:11 GMT
There's a simple solution to all this of course ....
VIDEO EVIDENCE .
Its already used in Rugby and other sports .
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Post by kustokie on Feb 29, 2016 23:15:46 GMT
You are right, old people like me call it cheating, younger people call it winning a penalty. A moral dilemma as it may be considered "Your Job" to use any tactics to win a game for your team as that is what you are paid for. It was noted by Venger of all people that Barca players always "Shouted Out " as they were fouled to make sure the Ref knew about it For me I'd rather lose than cheat, what is more worrying is that so called "Top Teams" are obviously coaching this to the extent that it has become accepted practice and part of the game. Crossover lines of an enjoyable sport played for enjoyment becoming a job , played for cash. Not just "top teams". I'd be very surprised if TP didn't work on this (tin hat).
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Post by corkster on Feb 29, 2016 23:40:39 GMT
I don't like it either but if as a result, the attacking player is given more room by the defenders so they avoid being conned by a "trailing leg", perhaps there'll be more goals and so, arguably, more entertaining games. So may be in the end it might work out OK.
NBA basketball currently has the same problem with shooters jumping into the guy defending them in the "act of shooting".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 12:16:05 GMT
Expanding the the argument even further...... Can a foul be awarded if no contact whatsoever has been made .....?
There are plenty of examples of this too .!Yes, if the player goes down taking evasive action it can be deemed as foul play.
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 1, 2016 12:21:28 GMT
Ric used to do a great straight legged fall didnt he do his shoulder in diving ?
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Post by metalhead on Mar 1, 2016 12:29:35 GMT
Owen against Argentina is a perfect example. He just leaves his trailing leg in and there's a brush of contact and boom, he's down. Excellent bit of cheating..... (my morality goes out the window when the Argies are involved)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 12:38:30 GMT
Owen against Argentina is a perfect example. He just leaves his trailing leg in and there's a brush of contact and boom, he's down. Excellent bit of cheating..... (my morality goes out the window when the Argies are involved) Was that a trailing leg, or the very clever kicking the back of your own leg as you're running to perfectly replicate the jerky movement of someone genuinely legging you up? I think he may have done it in a cup game against the Vale as well. Both perfectly acceptable in those circumstances.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 1, 2016 12:42:14 GMT
Expanding the the argument even further...... Can a foul be awarded if no contact whatsoever has been made .....?
There are plenty of examples of this too .!"Contact" is another one of those words that people use all the time but that doesn't actually have any grounding in the rules. It's not mentioned at all. You can be sent off for a dangerous tackle even if you don't touch the other player.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 1, 2016 12:48:58 GMT
Expanding the the argument even further...... Can a foul be awarded if no contact whatsoever has been made .....?
There are plenty of examples of this too .!yep it can be a foul if your "tackle" means a player has to be forced into avoiding/falling/jumping to prevent likely injury that would be caused to them. i hate rules like that as it's too subjective and any rule where the ref has to try to read the mind of a player or see into the future about what may have happened is far too open to mistakes IMO
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 1, 2016 12:50:16 GMT
It's always been my opinion that if the attacking player deliberately leaves his trailing leg in, then he's deliberately kicking the defender. The ref should give a free-kick to the defender. The attacking player has dived, so that's a yellow card, and he's also deliberately kicked the defender, so second yellow card and off you go. The media wouldn't allow this because they're obsessed with creating more goals by giving penalties for imaginary offences, and the governing body is to weak to back referees to do the right thing, else they'd have given a directive about this a long time ago. It's a cheats' charter. the media wouldn't have allowed it as soon as the phrase "Entitled to go down" was first coined...i fucking hate it!
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Post by Bick on Mar 1, 2016 13:01:02 GMT
These days it seems like part of the game for attackers is getting the defender to commit themselves enough so that they can take advantage, not actually for the defender to make the decisive movement.
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Post by dadofsam on Mar 1, 2016 13:11:51 GMT
Defenders are at it now as well, if they're put under any pressure from a forward they'll go down, usually doing that grabbing the ball towards them thing.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Mar 1, 2016 13:33:54 GMT
Defenders are at it now as well, if they're put under any pressure from a forward they'll go down, usually doing that grabbing the ball towards them thing. it's Pieters favourite move and does my head in....goes towards the corner, shields the ball then dives to the floor if anyone breathes on his neck
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Post by superheroantonius on Mar 1, 2016 13:37:32 GMT
It's a penalty if a stoke player goes down. It's a yellow card for diving if an opposing player goes down. Rules are rules :-)
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Post by mumf on Mar 1, 2016 14:40:21 GMT
These days it seems like part of the game for attackers is getting the defender to commit themselves enough so that they can take advantage, not actually for the defender to make the decisive movement. Spot on... this is where we're at I'm afraid. Blatant cheating rules.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 1, 2016 14:40:32 GMT
Owen against Argentina is a perfect example. He just leaves his trailing leg in and there's a brush of contact and boom, he's down. Excellent bit of cheating..... (my morality goes out the window when the Argies are involved) Was that a trailing leg, or the very clever kicking the back of your own leg as you're running to perfectly replicate the jerky movement of someone genuinely legging you up? I think he may have done it in a cup game against the Vale as well. Both perfectly acceptable in those circumstances. It's on YouTube, he goes over the foot but then his trailing leg brushes the defender. It's a dive imo, but who gives a shit
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