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Post by Titan Uranus on Feb 6, 2016 20:45:04 GMT
Paul tbh I almost added 'it can't all be down to Ryan's absence' = you're right, he's been massive this season especially and it does feel like we have to play out of our boots to compensate when he's out, and if we don't then today happens - but that was two perfectly sound CBs on the pitch today and sad to say this isn't a new injury for Ryan, Sparky's had the time to rehearse the rest in. I'm specially gutted for Ryan today, finally getting Woy to the Brit and he's out injured. He has the worst luck and never complains about it. Do you think Hughes has failed today then because he should have been able to have 'coached' Wollscheid and Muniesa more effectively? You could argue that Hughes failed today because he didn't bring in some centre-half cover during the last week of deadline.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 6, 2016 20:48:26 GMT
Do you think Hughes has failed today then because he should have been able to have 'coached' Wollscheid and Muniesa more effectively? You could argue that Hughes failed today because he didn't bring in some centre-half cover during the last week of deadline. I think that's a totally valid observation but not one that is specific today mate.
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Post by oatcakesteve on Feb 6, 2016 20:50:01 GMT
More like rate the players, forget Hughes.
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Post by reddipotter on Feb 6, 2016 21:59:47 GMT
Ryan can organise a defence, but without him the coaching staff are totally incapable of doing so. Tippy tappy is how we play now. This must be the manager's instructions. There is little teamwork. Everyone is waiting for someone else to do something. The players don't seem to know what to do. There is no clear team style. So, yes, the manager is responsible.
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Post by borat on Feb 6, 2016 23:39:07 GMT
He picked the right team but the subs were beyond laughable, just like Old trafford, 1 from me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 23:49:07 GMT
He was right Age six and three quarters
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 6, 2016 23:49:36 GMT
7 from me. Given the circumstances, he picked the right team not knowing that Butland would make a stupid lunge at their player when he was going nowhere and not knowing that Wolly would make a suicide pass. Not all his substitutions were bad. Ireland played well when he came on.
OS (Aged 10)
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Post by Davef on Feb 6, 2016 23:50:32 GMT
He was right Why did he say was wrong then?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 23:55:16 GMT
He was right Why did he say was wrong then? Irony Dave
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Post by mightyone on Feb 7, 2016 0:29:12 GMT
0* I came to the game expecting nothing and I wasn't disappointed. Felt kinda sorry for imbula cos he looked decent. The rest however were dreadful. I agree with you but apart from butland, he can be excused from all criticism. 3.0 could of been 6.0 or even more.
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Post by mightyone on Feb 7, 2016 0:35:23 GMT
Don't like me saying this but Hughes didn't help the cause today for me. 3.0 down at home and he takes off our main attacking threat and replaces them with players that haven't featured for us recently and no disrespect to them.! I for the first time feel Hughesy got his tactics absolutely way of the mark today but we move on . As always just my opinion people.
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Post by jeycov on Feb 7, 2016 8:24:57 GMT
Do you think Hughes has failed today then because he should have been able to have 'coached' Wollscheid and Muniesa more effectively? You could argue that Hughes failed today because he didn't bring in some centre-half cover during the last week of deadline. He probably got very close to signing an additional CB we don't know . I'm not sure why we have Texiera and he wasn't included today. We are also missing Cameron , very versatile, could have played CB today. The free weekend can't come quickly enough, the players need lifting.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 7, 2016 9:04:52 GMT
4 - right team for me with the players we had to pick from but tacticly clueless (though the players have to take responsibility). The most infuriating thing is that clearly we don't practice set pieces. Add to that the inability to change our playing style from this slow pedestrian style of play. I can't see how we can claim to be knackered when our build up is walking pace.
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Post by kurt on Feb 7, 2016 9:49:38 GMT
A 0 (Zero) for another thrown away possibility to play Arni/Bojan/Shaq, who offered in some games the best football Stoke City has played this year.
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Post by hchpotter on Feb 7, 2016 10:13:59 GMT
1.
Probably picked the right team with what he has available.
What we have available is not good enough. Wollscheid was clearly not fit. Is Muniesa?
It was common sense to bring in a centre back during the window when Ryan, Geoff and Muniesa were not fully fit. It became imperative when Wilson got injured last Saturday. Equally, it was sheer stupidity to go through a summer knowing Ryan was carrying a back injury and to let Huth leave.
Yesterday we employed the wrong tactics. Given the pace Everton have why did our battered back four allow them space to run into? No wonder Butland has made more saves than any other goalie in the league. He has played behind a shambles of a defence.
He used the wrong subs. Odemwingie is finished. Not his fault but he's too old and has suffered serious injury. Why bring Odemwingie on before a fit Bojan? Why bring on a centre forward who's decent in the air and take off the two players most able to provide crosses? When things are not working why not tell Shaqiri to play on the left and Arnie on the right and get some crosses in, if only to try something different?
He brought the subs on at the wrong time. Why wait for 60 minutes when we were two down inside half an hour? Would it really be too radical to bring subs on earlier? Two nil down and we persist with two holding midfielders at home. Would bringing Whelan off and allowing Afelay and Imbula the freedom to get forward have earned us fewer points?
Conceded again from a set piece. Never looked like scoring from a set piece. Not one single goal from a corner all season. It's not coincidence - we are poorly organised. Who organises us? Surely that the coaching team's job. Look at how aggressive, hungry and nasty Huth was at set pieces yesterday compared to the pussies in red and white stripes half an hour or so later.
People have suggested we're tired after the recent fixture backlog. Everton have just played a two leg league cup semi final and were also without their first choice centre half. Many oatcakers have revelled in how shit Everton's defence is in all of the "Ryan for England" threads. We never looked like troubling this shit defence.
Hughes has changed the perception of the football club. People keep saying to me "you must be pleased with the football at Stoke?" I really don't understand how he's pulled off this huge confidence trick. We started the season off in pretty awful fashion with no goals at home against Liverpool and West Brom but that was all put down to bad luck. I took an Everton fan to the match yesterday. He was gobsmacked at our lack of fight, lack of movement and lack of pace.
We were exceptional against Man City, Man United and Chelsea. We played well against Everton away - in patches. We were heroic against Liverpool away, having stumbled through earlier rounds of the cup. Why did Hughes not think after half an hour that it might be good to recreate the Bojan, Shaqiri, Arnautovic spearhead that put four past Everton a few weeks ago? Backed up by Affelay and Imbula.
We have been woeful against Watford, Palace, West Brom, Liverpool twice (home), Leicester, Man United, Palace again, Man United away, and now Everton. We've conceded three goals in league games four times since Christmas. Nine in our last three games. We barely manage a shot on target despite the holy trinity who, I thought, were supposed to make us more exciting.
What was served up yesterday was utter rubbish but was it really much worse than many other matches this season?
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Post by kidcrewbob on Feb 7, 2016 10:26:42 GMT
Hughes has had a bad 2016 so far IMHO - 3 x 3-0 drubbings and 2 cup exits (1 creditable admittedly but ineptitude in the first leg cost us ultimately). I have long since given up trying to fathom his substituting strategy and his team selections are sometimes a bit odd but I know injuries have restricted his options of late. That said, I was disappointed with the transfer window in not bringing in a couple more, even on loan, for cover at the back and maybe another option up front.
I think this season is now all about getting the formula right for the next - some deadwood will need to be dispensed of and further investment required Presuming the Coates family want to finish the job they have started.
So do I think anyone else could do better - probably - but that is always true anywhere and I think we need another 2 full seasons of managerial stability and team development to fairly judge him.
5 / 10 yesterday - 7 / 10 overall so far
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 7, 2016 10:42:15 GMT
I don't get all the low scores. He picked the right team, the only positions where we could have argued for change were Afellay/Bojan & Diouf/Joselu, but I think if we're being honest we'd have all been happy with any combination of those four before kick-off. The defence will always be weaker without Shawcross, but this was the same defence that did so well at Anfield & was the best we could field given injuries.
Where he can lose some points was the baffling taking off of Shaqiri to bring Odemwingie on, but I liked the Ireland sub & thought he did well when he came on.
When we start looking ahead to next weeks match, and assuming our injured players are still missing, I'm guessing everyone will be wanting to see...
Butland; Johnson, Wollscheid, Muniesa, Pieters; Whelan, Imbula; Shaqiri, Afellay/Bojan, Arnautovic; Diouf/Joselu.
That's exactly what we got this week (Once again, we'd have all been happy with any combination of Afellay/Bojan & Diouf/Joselu before kick-off this week, and we'll all be happy before kick-off with any combination of them next week.)
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Feb 7, 2016 10:46:38 GMT
3* doesn't seem to know his best 11 or his best formation, poor subs, didn't have a plan B in fact it looked like we were clueless. Gouranga.
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Post by wuzza on Feb 7, 2016 10:47:15 GMT
I think there is a frustration that some issues are not being resolved and we are no nearer understanding what our best team is hence the low marks. Yesterday was purely and simply the culmination of recent events and was sadly predictable. If we had got something yesterday I think it would have been genuinely good management - we didn't and it wasn't.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 7, 2016 10:47:25 GMT
I was excited when I saw the side, no problem there. The subs were frankly bizarre but often are even in the good times. For me though I'm leaving more on the doorstep of the players than the manager. The centre halves waved the white flag against Lukaku, the full backs are desperately out of form, the wingers currently couldn't beat an egg, Afellay is running out of positions to play in and Diouf looks like a shadow of the player he was. As soon as we concede you can see the air and energy sap out of the group.
6/10
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 7, 2016 10:47:57 GMT
He picked the exact team I would've picked so no criticism from me there.
But we are still plagued by the same problems at both ends of the pitch that have been a problem for months if not years under him and he has shown no indication that he knows how to address them.
I'm a huge Hughes fan and think we're blessed to have him as manager but that worries me.
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Post by hchpotter on Feb 7, 2016 11:17:51 GMT
Why are we blessed to have a manager who cannot resolve the same problems that have plagued him for years?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 7, 2016 11:20:37 GMT
Why are we blessed to have a manager who cannot resolve the same problems that have plagued him for years? Because the last two seasons have been excellent and he's achieved our two best league finishes for over 40 years, taken us to a cup semi-final and masterminded some of the most memorable games in the club's recent history? Is this a trick question?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 7, 2016 11:26:25 GMT
He picked the exact team I would've picked so no criticism from me there. But we are still plagued by the same problems at both ends of the pitch that have been a problem for months if not years under him and he has shown no indication that he knows how to address them. I'm a huge Hughes fan and think we're blessed to have him as manager but that worries me. Fair points Rob but with the talent we have, even when we're playing poorly I'd expect to see a player or two take the bull by the horns, give us a bit of magic and get us a goal to get us going but there's been absolutely nothing from any of them for weeks now. The managers in a muddle no doubt but the players are doing absolutely nothing to help him out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:27:59 GMT
It's funny that when the team was announced everyone was happy but when we lose its all his fault as you pick at his starting line up.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 7, 2016 11:29:27 GMT
He picked the exact team I would've picked so no criticism from me there. But we are still plagued by the same problems at both ends of the pitch that have been a problem for months if not years under him and he has shown no indication that he knows how to address them. I'm a huge Hughes fan and think we're blessed to have him as manager but that worries me. Fair points Rob but with the talent we have, even when we're playing poorly I'd expect to see a player or two take the bull by the horns, give us a bit of magic and get us a goal to get us going but there's been absolutely nothing from any of them for weeks now. The managers in a muddle no doubt but the players are doing absolutely nothing to help him out of it. It's the same old stuff though mate. Why are we still so static in the final third? We persist with the ponderous build-up play and make it easy for teams. If a problem persists for a length of time and isn't remotely addressed you have to ask questions of the manager. Our transfer window was exposed again yesterday as well.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 7, 2016 11:29:55 GMT
It's funny that when the team was announced everyone was happy but when we lose its all his fault as you pick at his starting line up. I thought he picked the right team but the problems run deeper than that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:33:24 GMT
It's funny that when the team was announced everyone was happy but when we lose its all his fault as you pick at his starting line up. I thought he picked the right team but the problems run deeper than that. I agree, I would have picked that team. The back 5 picks itself, he obviously doesn't rate Tex to play him even with wollschied struggling with injury. The Liverpool was a massive kick in the nuts and we have struggled since. I hate to say it but this season is over, we are nowhere near consistant enough to get into Europe this season now. I would take top 10 now.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 7, 2016 11:45:26 GMT
Fair points Rob but with the talent we have, even when we're playing poorly I'd expect to see a player or two take the bull by the horns, give us a bit of magic and get us a goal to get us going but there's been absolutely nothing from any of them for weeks now. The managers in a muddle no doubt but the players are doing absolutely nothing to help him out of it. It's the same old stuff though mate. Why are we still so static in the final third? We persist with the ponderous build-up play and make it easy for teams. If a problem persists for a length of time and isn't remotely addressed you have to ask questions of the manager. Our transfer window was exposed again yesterday as well. Questions need to be asked mate, no doubt but I think its a convenient shield for a some of the players. I'm really disappointed with a few of them and am starting to think a few of the flair players in particular aren't quite as good as I thought they were.
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Post by generationex on Feb 7, 2016 11:56:52 GMT
What's concerning is that the defence is dependent on Shawcross to organise to the point of coaching.
Large parts of the management's job - organisation, defending and attacking dead balls, seems to have been abdicated entirely.
If that was the intention then we needed a second defender with the experience to step in for Ryan when out. The defence has been terrifying in the last 4 games.
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