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Post by dutchpeter72 on Nov 26, 2015 23:20:01 GMT
I come from a working class family, I will be tactically voting Liberal Democrat, to remove these entryist trot oafs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 23:25:43 GMT
Even if you see them as sitting pretty it's through luck, Lords and Labour careerists not allowing JC to do the job he was rightfully appointed to do. JC ? was he not nailed to a cross, Corbyn is a political dinosaur he died in the 70's along with his comrades, labour are fucked with him and his 2IC holding the reins, Chairman Mao's little red book just about sealed their fate It really is silly how you just ignore things and bring down the standard of any substantial debate with your every post. As I have said already the you're using the Mao thing completely out of context. You're more than entitled to your opinion but please just say something constructive.
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Post by Gods on Nov 26, 2015 23:27:54 GMT
This is the latest YouGov poll below which suggests David Cameron is pretty much in tune with the national psyche on this one at least. Personally I am not so sure myself, these bombing campaigns rarely have a happy ending.
Very worrying for Labour and Jeremy Corbyn that almost no one trusts him on anything at all, not even the people who voted Labour it seems. All at a time when you would expect him to be enjoying a honeymoon period and ordinarily you'd expect the opposition to be taking lumps out of the sitting government. If that isn't fucked I'd like to know what is?!
Anyway here it is:
YouGov have published some fresh polling on Syria to coincide with David Cameron’s statement today, though the fieldwork obviously preceded it. Approval for British participation in air strikes against ISIS in Syria now stands at 59%, 20% would disapprove. Asked about sending British and American ground troops back into Iraq 39% would approve, 34% would disapprove. The majority of those who back military action think that it should require the permission of the United Nations. 44% think military action should only take place with UN permission, 28% that it should take place regardless of what the UN say, 11% think it should NOT take place whatever the UN say.
47% of people say they trust David Cameron to make the right decisions in regard of Syria and ISIS, 43% do not. In comparison only 21% trust Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions, 68% do not (among those people who voted Labour in 2015 40% trust Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions on the issue, 46% do not).
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Post by lastoftheldk on Nov 26, 2015 23:36:33 GMT
No over whelming majority on anything though.
People are so easy to govern these days,
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 26, 2015 23:41:44 GMT
100,000 people read The Financial Times
4 million people 'read' The Sun.
Does that mean The Sun is a better Newspaper?
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right.
And that's where real leadership comes in..doing the right thing even when it's unpopular.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 0:11:14 GMT
This is the latest YouGov poll below which suggests David Cameron is pretty much in tune with the national psyche on this one at least. I am not so sure myself, these bombing campaigns rarely have a happy ending. Very worrying for Labour and Jeremy Corbyn that almost no one trusts him on anything at all, not even the people who voted Labour it seems. If that isn't fucked I'd like to know what is! Anyway here it is: YouGov have published some fresh polling on Syria to coincide with David Cameron’s statement today, though the fieldwork obviously preceded it. Approval for British participation in air strikes against ISIS in Syria now stands at 59%, 20% would disapprove. Asked about sending British and American ground troops back into Iraq 39% would approve, 34% would disapprove. The majority of those who back military action think that it should require the permission of the United Nations. 44% think military action should only take place with UN permission, 28% that it should take place regardless of what the UN say, 11% think it should NOT take place whatever the UN say. 47% of people say they trust David Cameron to make the right decisions in regard of Syria and ISIS, 43% do not. In comparison only 21% trust Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions, 68% do not (among those people who voted Labour in 2015 40% trust Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions on the issue, 46% do not). 78% of all statistics are made up. Oh I just made that one up as well
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Post by starkiller on Nov 27, 2015 0:11:48 GMT
This is the latest YouGov poll below which suggests David Cameron is pretty much in tune with the national psyche on this one at least. I am not so sure myself, these bombing campaigns rarely have a happy ending. Very worrying for Labour and Jeremy Corbyn that almost no one trusts him on anything at all, not even the people who voted Labour it seems. If that isn't fucked I'd like to know what is! Anyway here it is: YouGov have published some fresh polling on Syria to coincide with David Cameron’s statement today, though the fieldwork obviously preceded it. Approval for British participation in air strikes against ISIS in Syria now stands at 59%, 20% would disapprove. Asked about sending British and American ground troops back into Iraq 39% would approve, 34% would disapprove. The majority of those who back military action think that it should require the permission of the United Nations. 44% think military action should only take place with UN permission, 28% that it should take place regardless of what the UN say, 11% think it should NOT take place whatever the UN say. 47% of people say they trust David Cameron to make the right decisions in regard of Syria and ISIS, 43% do not. In comparison only 21% trust Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions, 68% do not (among those people who voted Labour in 2015 40% trust Jeremy Corbyn to make the right decisions on the issue, 46% do not). Mission accomplished for Cameron and his arms corporation backers thanks to yet another attack that was allowed to happen from yet another group of people all known to intelligence. This fucking pyscho Mafia have run the world long enough with the same repeated methods
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2015 0:14:38 GMT
“Isn’t it essential in any prelude to a war to be sure of your allies and be sure of your objectives? Isn’t it a fact that Turkey has been buying oil from Isil, they’ve been bombing the Kurds and the Kurds are fighting Isil, they shot down a Russian jet even though Russia wants to fight Isil," “He has got an objective to get rid of Assad, our Russian ally has got the opposite objective. What a crazy war. Enemies to the right of us, enemies to the left of us – keep out!” article
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Post by jacques on Nov 27, 2015 1:25:02 GMT
That would be interesting wizzard. Two right leaning parties What, disaffected left wing voters against the war in Syria are suddenly going to turn into right wing, gun-toting window lickers? Interesting theory.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 27, 2015 5:46:50 GMT
This headline is from the Mirror this morning; Jeremy Corbyn scraps visit to Oldham amid growing anger at his stance over bombing Syria. Note it is the Mirror, not the Mail, Express or Telegraph. When the one paper that, pretty much, unanimously backs Labour runs a story like this you know you have serious problems. Labour will still win Oldham - I'm sure. But a significantly reduced majority is a huge problem during what should be a boom time for a new leader of the opposition in a week where the Government had to fess up to a major policy error.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 8:39:15 GMT
Hard to see any way forward for Labour following the current fiasco over Syria. What a fucking mess. He's representing the vast majority of his parties view. A very interesting take on it emphasising what an opportunistic turd Cameron is. He is no more committed to a joined up foreign policy than he is trade unions. Corbyn's position is far more consistent, realistic and thoughtful. new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/jeremy-corbyn-is-more-sensible-about-syria-than-david-cameron/Why is it people swallow the lies of the right wing press? What's wrong with sticking to your principles? Can you imagine the reaction if he'd changed his view on this?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 8:43:41 GMT
“Isn’t it essential in any prelude to a war to be sure of your allies and be sure of your objectives? Isn’t it a fact that Turkey has been buying oil from Isil, they’ve been bombing the Kurds and the Kurds are fighting Isil, they shot down a Russian jet even though Russia wants to fight Isil," “He has got an objective to get rid of Assad, our Russian ally has got the opposite objective. What a crazy war. Enemies to the right of us, enemies to the left of us – keep out!” articleBrilliant as usual from Skinner.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 27, 2015 8:48:42 GMT
Why is it people swallow the lies of the right wing press? What's wrong with sticking to your principles? Can you imagine the reaction if he'd changed his view on this? Exactly - and this is why Labour effectively signed a mass suicide pact when they elected him as leader. Corbyn puts his personal principles before power. Laudable, for sure, but not what is required of a leader who has other considerations. Like living in the real world. Corbyn is a principled back bench MP - which us where he should have stayed.
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Post by underdog on Nov 27, 2015 8:49:52 GMT
Funny innit...we complain about the lack of integrity in government, but unless they agree in absolutely everything and show a united front we say they're falling apart. I for one want to see some honesty, integrity and proper debate in the HofC....not the ETON boo boys we've been subjected to for years. The tragedy for this country will be immeasurable if Corbyn is destroyed because he's a commitment politician.Unfortunately, as the Sun is the most read paper in the UK, I don't hold out much hope for our democracy. Watch your lifestyle degrade over the next 30 years as we become increasingly controlled by the media and vested interest controlling government.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 8:58:17 GMT
Hard to see any way forward for Labour following the current fiasco over Syria. What a fucking mess. The Marx(ist) brothers what a fucking joke, Chairman Mao's little red book they are really fucked 1970's policies in 2015 , not working very well is it what a fucking balls up and some on here were revelling when Corbyn was voted as leader of the Labour party, how friggin stupid must they feel now I almost feel sorry for them............................................................................................................................................................NOT great decision comrades If you're so anti Maoism can you please explain why Osborne has signed deals to build nuclear power stations with the Chinese? Do you understand irony at all?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 9:01:28 GMT
Why is it people swallow the lies of the right wing press? What's wrong with sticking to your principles? Can you imagine the reaction if he'd changed his view on this? Exactly - and this is why Labour effectively signed a mass suicide pact when they elected him as leader. Corbyn puts his personal principles before power. Laudable, for sure, but not what is required of a leader who has other considerations. Like living in the real world. Corbyn is a principled back bench MP - which us where he should have stayed. So you're implying that a decent principled man like Corbyn should not be leader? What kind of society have we become then?
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Post by bringmesunshine on Nov 27, 2015 9:24:41 GMT
It’s truly is admirable for a person to have principles but if they get in the way of clarity of thinking then they become a hindrance, I might also point out that naive wishing for piece is a sure fire way to encourage an aggressor, after all just look what happened after the immortal words “Peace for our time “were spoken. The right path is rarely the easy one.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 27, 2015 9:27:32 GMT
100,000 people read The Financial Times 4 million people 'read' The Sun. Does that mean The Sun is a better Newspaper? Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's right. And that's where real leadership comes in..doing the right thing even when it's unpopular. What, 4 million bigots can't be wrong...
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 27, 2015 9:34:11 GMT
Exactly - and this is why Labour effectively signed a mass suicide pact when they elected him as leader. Corbyn puts his personal principles before power. Laudable, for sure, but not what is required of a leader who has other considerations. Like living in the real world. Corbyn is a principled back bench MP - which us where he should have stayed. So you're implying that a decent principled man like Corbyn should not be leader? What kind of society have we become then? A leader can't be self indulgent. He has to reflect the broader opinion of the people he represents - and importantly hopes to represent. I remember Len McCluskey talking about how he sacrificed his personal principles to reflect the broader opinion of his union. Because that is what a leader has to do. Nothing to do with what society we have become. Just a question of what it takes to be a leader.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Nov 27, 2015 9:42:14 GMT
When his shadow cabinet come out with mass resignation threats as they have this morning, hence Diane Abbott appearing on every news TV and radio programme, I would have thought it was pretty obvious that his long tern future is nonexistent.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 27, 2015 9:42:47 GMT
Why is it people swallow the lies of the right wing press? What's wrong with sticking to your principles? Can you imagine the reaction if he'd changed his view on this? Why is it people swallow the lies of the left wing press
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Post by salopstick on Nov 27, 2015 9:44:12 GMT
When his shadow cabinet come out with mass resignation threats as they have this morning, hence Diane Abbott appearing on every news TV and radio programme, I would have thought it was pretty obvious that his long tern future is nonexistent. I hate it when the wives wear their their husbands rank It's like the sergeants mess Christmas ball
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Post by bringmesunshine on Nov 27, 2015 9:55:53 GMT
When his shadow cabinet come out with mass resignation threats as they have this morning, hence Diane Abbott appearing on every news TV and radio programme, I would have thought it was pretty obvious that his long tern future is nonexistent. I hate it when the wives wear their their husbands rank It's like the sergeants mess Christmas ball Are you suggesting they should know their place because if it’s OK for Corbin to be a man of principal the surely it must be even more commendable for somebody to resign as a matter of principal, and to be honest it doesn’t seem to me he has the backing of the majority of his party certainly not the Parliamentary Party.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 27, 2015 10:03:47 GMT
I hate it when the wives wear their their husbands rank It's like the sergeants mess Christmas ball Are you suggesting they should know their place because if it’s OK for Corbin to be a man of principal the surely it must be even more commendable for somebody to resign as a matter of principal, and to be honest it doesn’t seem to me he has the backing of the majority of his party certainly not the Parliamentary Party. I mean rather than tell his MPs to back me or resign to send out his ex Mrs to do it for him. I think the party needs to be united. You cannot have a split front bench that can't agree on the direction the leader wants to take. How can the public elect that front bench to govern when they cannot agree
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 10:04:12 GMT
So you're implying that a decent principled man like Corbyn should not be leader? What kind of society have we become then? A leader can't be self indulgent. He has to reflect the broader opinion of the people he represents - and importantly hopes to represent. I remember Len McCluskey talking about how he sacrificed his personal principles to reflect the broader opinion of his union. Because that is what a leader has to do. Nothing to do with what society we have become. Just a question of what it takes to be a leader. But he IS reflecting the people he represents...the overwhelming majority of party members who voted him in. He does not share the views of some right wing members of the PLP.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 10:06:05 GMT
Serious question then. Who believes we should bomb Syria?
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Post by bringmesunshine on Nov 27, 2015 10:12:59 GMT
Serious question then. Who believes we should bomb Syria? No, the real question is we won’t beat IS without a coalition of ground troops, so how many more people need to die by beheadings, suicide bombs or AK47 gunfire before we wake up, go in, and rid the world of IS forever. HOW MANY PEOPLE.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 27, 2015 10:14:32 GMT
Serious question then. Who believes we should bomb Syria? No, the real question is we won’t beat IS without a coalition of ground troops, so how many more people need to die by beheadings, suicide bombs or AK47 gunfire before we wake up, go in, and rid the world of IS forever. HOW MANY PEOPLE. As the thread is basically about Corbyn's refusal to support air strikes then I'm afraid it is the question. Who on here supports bombing Syria?
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Post by desman2 on Nov 27, 2015 10:19:57 GMT
Funny innit...we complain about the lack of integrity in government, but unless they agree in absolutely everything and show a united front we say they're falling apart. I for one want to see some honesty, integrity and proper debate in the HofC....not the ETON boo boys we've been subjected to for years. The tragedy for this country will be immeasurable if Corbyn is destroyed because he's a commitment politician.Unfortunately, as the Sun is the most read paper in the UK, I don't hold out much hope for our democracy. Watch your lifestyle degrade over the next 30 years as we become increasingly controlled by the media and vested interest controlling government. Where have you been for the last 20 odd years. Do you seriously believe that the lifestyles of ordinary people havn't been degraded.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Nov 27, 2015 10:21:47 GMT
No, the real question is we won’t beat IS without a coalition of ground troops, so how many more people need to die by beheadings, suicide bombs or AK47 gunfire before we wake up, go in, and rid the world of IS forever. HOW MANY PEOPLE. As the thread is basically about Corbyn's refusal to support air strikes then I'm afraid it is the question. Who on here supports bombing Syria? That’s a narrow view of the issue but you’re entitled to it so I could either start a new thread if it makes you happy, or you could just answer the question. How many more people need to die? 10, 20, 100, 250, 2000? Would say 5000 worldwide and 1000 British be enough?
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