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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 8, 2016 11:57:44 GMT
Theres 2 issues here actually. 1) losing one of our main players 2) losing one of our main players for a tiny fee Maybe we have to accept that Arnie wants to leave and who can blame him. BUT we need to make sure we get his real market value. So maybe a short-term pay increase in return for raising his buy-out clause to 25M or thereabouts. The same how Bony did at Swansea just before getting sold. Its not an ideal situation, but I hope the transfer team are considering this option as well. Its not the fact that players like Arnie want to leave and move on, its the fact they are leaving for such small amounts. We are not being smart enough my thoughts exactly. it's not a policy i think is good for the supporters, but i can see how it runs the business. But i do worry we essentially give our players away for a nominal fee. i saw today that Cardiff want £10m for their 30 year old keeper - our players are worth much much more than that so the club should play more hardball. The contract situation makes that difficult though doesn't it?
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 8, 2016 12:05:27 GMT
If he decides he wants to fuck off elsewhere then that's up to him, trust in Hughes to unearth us another gem to replace him!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 12:05:27 GMT
We can't be left in the same situation as we were with Nzonzi and Begovic.
If he won't sign then the last chance of getting any remote type of value is this window.
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Post by foster on Jan 8, 2016 12:09:34 GMT
We can't be left in the same situation as we were with Nzonzi and Begovic. If he won't sign then the last chance of getting any remote type of value is this window. Is it confirmed that he won't sign? Has Arnie said that unless we offer 100k a week wages that there's no way he'll sign an extension?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 8, 2016 12:13:07 GMT
We can't be left in the same situation as we were with Nzonzi and Begovic. If he won't sign then the last chance of getting any remote type of value is this window. Is it confirmed that he won't sign? Has Arnie said that unless we offer 100k a week wages that there's no way he'll sign an extension? Hughes said yesterday that Arnie wants to stay and be a part of our future. All that is happening at the moment is negotiation.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 8, 2016 12:17:27 GMT
I wonder if he gave them a bell after the Liverpool game in mid week He did give them a bell yes. I was stood next to Bowen as he took the call and he congratulated Arnie on his efforts, reassured him that he was our only attacking threat on the night, congratulated him for working hard and trying to make things happen and signed off by telling him not to be too hard on his teammates as they aren't as good as he is.
Bowen put the phone down, rolled his eyes and muttered something about him being a maniac! Are you being serious here Dave, or am I just being a bit thick and missing the joke?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 8, 2016 12:26:06 GMT
He did give them a bell yes. I was stood next to Bowen as he took the call and he congratulated Arnie on his efforts, reassured him that he was our only attacking threat on the night, congratulated him for working hard and trying to make things happen and signed off by telling him not to be too hard on his teammates as they aren't as good as he is.
Bowen put the phone down, rolled his eyes and muttered something about him being a maniac! Are you being serious here Dave, or am I just being a bit thick and missing the joke?
You're missing the joke mate. It was a ridiculous reply to some fairly ridiculous criticism of by far and away our best attacking player this season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 12:27:25 GMT
We can't be left in the same situation as we were with Nzonzi and Begovic. If he won't sign then the last chance of getting any remote type of value is this window. Is it confirmed that he won't sign? Has Arnie said that unless we offer 100k a week wages that there's no way he'll sign an extension?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 8, 2016 12:33:27 GMT
Theres 2 issues here actually. 1) losing one of our main players 2) losing one of our main players for a tiny fee Maybe we have to accept that Arnie wants to leave and who can blame him. BUT we need to make sure we get his real market value. So maybe a short-term pay increase in return for raising his buy-out clause to 25M or thereabouts. The same how Bony did at Swansea just before getting sold. Its not an ideal situation, but I hope the transfer team are considering this option as well. Its not the fact that players like Arnie want to leave and move on, its the fact they are leaving for such small amounts. We are not being smart enough If they won't sign they won't sign though Matt. Then what do you do? The point is he might want to leave and not sign an extension. But then we can still offer something like - 20k p/w pay increase in return to a release clause of 25m being inserted. So that means Arnie is still free to look for another club with just the 18 months remaining as long as they pay the requested 25m The extra 20k p/w we are going to pay him is MORE than covered by the Buy-Out clause It makes both parties interested in selling Arnie BEFORE his contract expires in 18 months this way and everyone is happy Just exactly what happened with Bony. He didnt want to stay at Swansea for any longer but realised that Swansea were more likely to sell him for a higher fee immediately.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Jan 8, 2016 12:44:06 GMT
Lets face it he's gone. End of the season we will get a measly 8m and our best player will be gone. When are we going to learn! As soon as one of our key players gets down to 2 years on their contract we need to be offering them a 3-4 year deal. Even if the wage doesn't go up a great deal they would be mad to turn it down at that point. Odds on it happening to Bojan whenever his contract is up?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 8, 2016 12:45:55 GMT
If they won't sign they won't sign though Matt. Then what do you do? The point is he might want to leave and not sign an extension. But then we can still offer something like - 20k p/w pay increase in return to a release clause of 25m being inserted. So that means Arnie is still free to look for another club with just the 18 months remaining as long as they pay the requested 25m The extra 20k p/w we are going to pay him is MORE than covered by the Buy-Out clause It makes both parties interested in selling Arnie BEFORE his contract expires in 18 months this way and everyone is happy Just exactly what happened with Bony. He didnt want to stay at Swansea for any longer but realised that Swansea were more likely to sell him for a higher fee immediately. Absolutely, it makes sense - but if they still don't go for it (and not all players will) then you're stuck. We have to accept that sometimes there's not much we can do.
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Post by foster on Jan 8, 2016 12:46:38 GMT
Is it confirmed that he won't sign? Has Arnie said that unless we offer 100k a week wages that there's no way he'll sign an extension? Hughes said yesterday that Arnie wants to stay and be a part of our future. All that is happening at the moment is negotiation. I know. I just don't get why people are getting ahead of themselves and already running through scenarios that may not come to pass.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 8, 2016 12:46:47 GMT
Lets face it he's gone. End of the season we will get a measly 8m and our best player will be gone. When are we going to learn! As soon as one of our key players gets down to 2 years on their contract we need to be offering them a 3-4 year deal. Even if the wage doesn't go up a great deal they would be mad to turn it down at that point. Odds on it happening to Bojan whenever his contract is up? Why would they be mad to turn it down when they know they've got a good chance of getting a move down the line?
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Post by wearepremierleague on Jan 8, 2016 12:51:36 GMT
Lets face it he's gone. End of the season we will get a measly 8m and our best player will be gone. When are we going to learn! As soon as one of our key players gets down to 2 years on their contract we need to be offering them a 3-4 year deal. Even if the wage doesn't go up a great deal they would be mad to turn it down at that point. Odds on it happening to Bojan whenever his contract is up? Why would they be mad to turn it down when they know they've got a good chance of getting a move down the line? Because two years with a 10k a week increase and a buy out clause of 15m+ makes sense for everyone?
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Post by Davef on Jan 8, 2016 12:52:54 GMT
Lets face it he's gone. End of the season we will get a measly 8m and our best player will be gone. When are we going to learn! As soon as one of our key players gets down to 2 years on their contract we need to be offering them a 3-4 year deal. Even if the wage doesn't go up a great deal they would be mad to turn it down at that point. Odds on it happening to Bojan whenever his contract is up? Erm.... we are/have offered Arnie a contract extension. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that some players accept contract extensions, some don't commit immediately and others reject them?
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Jan 8, 2016 12:54:27 GMT
He's only ever said good things about the club and the fans, hes stated that he wants to be part of this club going forward.
The fact he even opened contract talks shows that he wants to stay. He's trying to get himself the best deal he can and who wouldn't??
I reckon he'll sign.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Jan 8, 2016 12:56:09 GMT
Lets face it he's gone. End of the season we will get a measly 8m and our best player will be gone. When are we going to learn! As soon as one of our key players gets down to 2 years on their contract we need to be offering them a 3-4 year deal. Even if the wage doesn't go up a great deal they would be mad to turn it down at that point. Odds on it happening to Bojan whenever his contract is up? Erm.... we are/have offered Arnie a contract extension. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that some players accept contract extensions, some don't commit immediately and others reject them? I'm asking why it wasn't done in the summer. When it gets done with 18 months left, agents and players both start realising that within 6 months the club will sell up as they won't risk losing them for nothing.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Jan 8, 2016 12:57:17 GMT
Erm.... we are/have offered Arnie a contract extension. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that some players accept contract extensions, some don't commit immediately and others reject them? I'm asking why it wasn't done in the summer. When it gets done with 18 months left, agents and players both start realising that within 6 months the club will sell up as they won't risk losing them for nothing. Very valid question, his stock was still low in the summer and he had still been a decent player for us, even a 12 month contract extension would of been handy.
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Post by stokiejohnss on Jan 8, 2016 13:00:43 GMT
The longer these " negotiations " drag on the more supporters can get annoyed with the player , I don't see this too much as yet but it could damage his relationship with the fans. It needs sorting one way or another in this window imo.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 8, 2016 13:03:06 GMT
Why would they be mad to turn it down when they know they've got a good chance of getting a move down the line? Because two years with a 10k a week increase and a buy out clause of 15m+ makes sense for everyone? Or you could wait it out and go for nowt with less hassle and a massive signing on fee?
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Post by Davef on Jan 8, 2016 13:05:45 GMT
Erm.... we are/have offered Arnie a contract extension. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that some players accept contract extensions, some don't commit immediately and others reject them? I'm asking why it wasn't done in the summer. When it gets done with 18 months left, agents and players both start realising that within 6 months the club will sell up as they won't risk losing them for nothing. Not all clubs sell up. Charlie Austin will be leaving QPR this summer for nothing when his contract is up. Hannover kept Mame Diouf until his contract ended despite Stoke offering money for him twelve months earlier. Where is the guarantee that players would sign two years into a four year contract anyway? Players and agents hold ALL the aces these days. You can't force them to do anything they don't want to do and any amount of jumping up and down, stamping your feet and criticising the club won't alter that.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Jan 8, 2016 13:10:37 GMT
I'm asking why it wasn't done in the summer. When it gets done with 18 months left, agents and players both start realising that within 6 months the club will sell up as they won't risk losing them for nothing. Not all clubs sell up. Charlie Austin will be leaving QPR this summer for nothing when his contract is up. Hannover kept Mame Diouf until his contract ended despite Stoke offering money for him twelve months earlier. Where is the guarantee that players would sign two years into a four year contract anyway? Players and agents hold ALL the aces these days. You can't force them to do anything they don't want to do and any amount of jumping up and down, stamping your feet and criticising the club won't alter that. We showed last year that we aren't willing to let our players leave on a free...
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Post by stokief on Jan 8, 2016 14:12:03 GMT
So, player with massive ego has half good season and loves the press adoration. Begins to imagine himself playing in Europe with massive (yawn) team. Doesn't give two flying fishes about the team, management that's improved his game without him even knowing it. People start blowing in his ear about money, fame etc. agent and players stamp feet. Put in ridiculous demands that they know wont be met. Go all petulant and sulky and get dream move only for it to turn into an ego deflating nightmare of a time. Oh how last season! Why cant Stoke just say 'shut it Arnie! why dont you hang tight here for the rest of your contract. Put the same work in and see where WE get.You'll still get the plaudits. You'll still be the main man for your Country. You'll still be a Potters Hero...and, if you carry on being so wonderful you may just find yourself winning trophies, playing in Europe and because we're little old Stoke with the eyes of the World on us become even more frickin famous and loved. Now, THAT would be refreshing! Contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on anyway so why are we all getting so hung up about extensions?
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Post by pez75 on Jan 8, 2016 16:12:31 GMT
So, player with massive ego has half good season and loves the press adoration. Begins to imagine himself playing in Europe with massive (yawn) team. Doesn't give two flying fishes about the team, management that's improved his game without him even knowing it. People start blowing in his ear about money, fame etc. agent and players stamp feet. Put in ridiculous demands that they know wont be met. Go all petulant and sulky and get dream move only for it to turn into an ego deflating nightmare of a time. Oh how last season! Why cant Stoke just say 'shut it Arnie! why dont you hang tight here for the rest of your contract. Put the same work in and see where WE get.You'll still get the plaudits. You'll still be the main man for your Country. You'll still be a Potters Hero...and, if you carry on being so wonderful you may just find yourself winning trophies, playing in Europe and because we're little old Stoke with the eyes of the World on us become even more frickin famous and loved. Now, THAT would be refreshing! Contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on anyway so why are we all getting so hung up about extensions? Wow - either you have made a load of cynical one-eyed assumptions or you are definitely ITK. What's Arnie having for tea tonight?
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Post by petemac on Jan 8, 2016 16:18:32 GMT
Arnie just wants to secure his families future. He's not as good as he thinks he is but he's one of our stars at the moment. So he will sign a decent contract with us and he will become a mini legend.
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Post by Davef on Jan 8, 2016 16:25:49 GMT
Not all clubs sell up. Charlie Austin will be leaving QPR this summer for nothing when his contract is up. Hannover kept Mame Diouf until his contract ended despite Stoke offering money for him twelve months earlier. Where is the guarantee that players would sign two years into a four year contract anyway? Players and agents hold ALL the aces these days. You can't force them to do anything they don't want to do and any amount of jumping up and down, stamping your feet and criticising the club won't alter that. We showed last year that we aren't willing to let our players leave on a free... And that may be the case again with Arnie if the two parties can't come to an agreement. I'm not entirely sure what point you're making here? If he leaves at the end of this season with twelve months left on his contract we'll get a fee. If he leaves at the end of his contract we won't get a penny. Of course any fee in the summer wouldn't be as high as one we'd get if he'd had two or three years left on his current deal, but what do you want... for us to sell him (and other players) less than halfway through his contract?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 16:34:22 GMT
If he wants to become one of our top earners then give it him.
He is one of our most important players and he should be right up there wit h tell best paid players at the club.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 8, 2016 16:46:06 GMT
Arnie just wants to secure his families future. He's not as good as he thinks he is but he's one of our stars at the moment. So he will sign a decent contract with us and he will become a mini legend. Secure his family's future??? If he hasn't done that by now then it's time to pack in....at the least he must have earned himself a nice cool Mil, AT THE LEAST!!!
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Post by cozmick on Jan 8, 2016 17:05:01 GMT
Stoke City Football Club are nothing more than a stepping stone for this sort of player, the sooner people realise this the better for everyone.
Same goes for the likes of Bojan and Shaqiri, as soon as a "bigger" club comes sniffing they'll be fucking gone.
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Post by petemac on Jan 8, 2016 17:18:15 GMT
Arnie just wants to secure his families future. He's not as good as he thinks he is but he's one of our stars at the moment. So he will sign a decent contract with us and he will become a mini legend. Secure his family's future??? If he hasn't done that by now then it's time to pack in....at the least he must have earned himself a nice cool Mil, AT THE LEAST!!! We don't live in the same place.
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