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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 30, 2015 12:32:52 GMT
Thought this was a good show and captured the essence of non-league football quite well. Jason Jarrett, who I remember appearing on-loan for us, epitomised the once-famous player now bumming around in the non-league and struggling to come to terms with his reduced status. Unfortunately it seems that a lot of players are just not mentally prepared for the slump that follows retirement or the day when 50,000 people singing their name at Old Trafford is replaced by five blokes hurling abuse at them on a mud heap. Some players handle it better than others: Gary Neville is obviously an intelligent man who understands the importance of keeping himself busy and finding a new niche for himself, but many others will lack the insight to prepare themselves for the day when their bodies can no longer perform at the level they're used to. People might not feel comfortable in feeling sympathy for guys who are being paid thousands of pounds a week, but I think that any amount of material possessions can become immaterial in comparison to a loss of self-worth, self-identity and purpose. It does make you wonder whether football clubs realise that this sense of loss can affect players' mental health and whether they feel any obligation to provide support to players in preparing for the day they hang their boots up. The programme only touched on this issue but it did get me thinking. I agree to point but if you look at the 5 owners they have clearly set themselves up with life after football but by their own admission Jason and Joanne were talking of wasting money on clothes and cars and now the money has stopped they can't lead the high life any more. He was on £9k a week in his hay day players should think about the short life span of footballers and plan ahead I know it's easier said than done but it's a hard fact of the game. I don't think it was necessarily the money that was the issue here, or in most cases when sportsmen/women suffer mental health issues post-retirement. It's more the lack of occupation or reduced sense of self-worth that can accompany retirement or a decline in performance. They're not just issues confined to sports either; many people experience the same feelings regardless of their financial circumstances when they retire or lose a job. In a way though, I think the mental aspect is exacerbated for people who once performed a job that's involved huge rushes of adenaline and mental 'highs' but no longer can. The fall is so much greater. Imagine one year you're scoring a goal at Wembley and soaking up all the adulation that follows, the next year you're turning out for The Dog 'n'Duck in front of 12 people at Longton Park. Or one day you're in a number one band touring stadiums, the next you're playing at a half-full Wetherspoons in Grimsby and selling CDs out of your car boot. It happens all the time, and not just in jobs that are in the public eye. Some people can deal with that change in circumstances without any serious consequences. Others, for whatever reason, struggle to come to terms with it and spiral into depression, drink, drugs etc. I'd be interested to know whether any professional clubs actually have that chat with players once they're approaching the end of their careers to prepare them for what they might experience.
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 30, 2015 12:41:06 GMT
I agree to point but if you look at the 5 owners they have clearly set themselves up with life after football but by their own admission Jason and Joanne were talking of wasting money on clothes and cars and now the money has stopped they can't lead the high life any more. He was on £9k a week in his hay day players should think about the short life span of footballers and plan ahead I know it's easier said than done but it's a hard fact of the game. I don't think it was necessarily the money that was the issue here, or in most cases when sportsmen/women suffer mental health issues post-retirement. It's more the lack of occupation or reduced sense of self-worth that can accompany retirement or a decline in performance. They're not just issues confined to sports either; many people experience the same feelings regardless of their financial circumstances when they retire or lose a job. In a way though, I think the mental aspect is exacerbated for people who once performed a job that's involved huge rushes of adenaline and mental 'highs' but no longer can. The fall is so much greater. Imagine one year you're scoring a goal at Wembley and soaking up all the adulation that follows, the next year you're turning out for The Dog 'n'Duck in front of 12 people at Longton Park. Or one day you're in a number one band touring stadiums, the next you're playing at a half-full Wetherspoons in Grimsby and selling CDs out of your car boot. It happens all the time, and not just in jobs that are in the public eye. Some people can deal with that change in circumstances without any serious consequences. Others, for whatever reason, struggle to come to terms with it and spiral into depression, drink, drugs etc. I'd be interested to know whether any professional clubs actually have that chat with players once they're approaching the end of their careers to prepare them for what they might experience. Yes but the issues with his mental health came about after his demise and lets not go down that topic again after the Clarke Carlisle debate. Clubs don't do enough in my opinion for players at the end of a career they just let them go.
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Post by Northy on Oct 30, 2015 13:04:26 GMT
I've watched a bit of it, until they got knocked out of the FA cup. Next week they will be on BBC against Notts County and will get £67,500 TV appearance money, plus at least £12,500 prize money for getting into the 1st round
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Post by baystokie on Oct 30, 2015 14:35:30 GMT
I agree to point but if you look at the 5 owners they have clearly set themselves up with life after football but by their own admission Jason and Joanne were talking of wasting money on clothes and cars and now the money has stopped they can't lead the high life any more. He was on £9k a week in his hay day players should think about the short life span of footballers and plan ahead I know it's easier said than done but it's a hard fact of the game. I don't think it was necessarily the money that was the issue here, or in most cases when sportsmen/women suffer mental health issues post-retirement. It's more the lack of occupation or reduced sense of self-worth that can accompany retirement or a decline in performance. They're not just issues confined to sports either; many people experience the same feelings regardless of their financial circumstances when they retire or lose a job. In a way though, I think the mental aspect is exacerbated for people who once performed a job that's involved huge rushes of adenaline and mental 'highs' but no longer can. The fall is so much greater. Imagine one year you're scoring a goal at Wembley and soaking up all the adulation that follows, the next year you're turning out for The Dog 'n'Duck in front of 12 people at Longton Park. Or one day you're in a number one band touring stadiums, the next you're playing at a half-full Wetherspoons in Grimsby and selling CDs out of your car boot. It happens all the time, and not just in jobs that are in the public eye. Some people can deal with that change in circumstances without any serious consequences. Others, for whatever reason, struggle to come to terms with it and spiral into depression, drink, drugs etc. I'd be interested to know whether any professional clubs actually have that chat with players once they're approaching the end of their careers to prepare them for what they might experience. Players have got to WANT to be helped and advised. Clubs, however, willing and organised cannot MAKE players listen to advice, or having got them to listen, cannot make them act upon that advice. When I was within 2 years of retiring, my firm not only organised seminars but provided the funds to employ professional advisers, both financial and personal, so that I was given as much insight into retirement as I cared to take onboard - BUT it was up to me to drive the process, not just wait for everything to be gift-wrapped for me. Maybe sounds harsh but help/guidance/assistance has to be a two-way thing.
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Post by Trouserdog on Oct 30, 2015 16:15:26 GMT
I don't think it was necessarily the money that was the issue here, or in most cases when sportsmen/women suffer mental health issues post-retirement. It's more the lack of occupation or reduced sense of self-worth that can accompany retirement or a decline in performance. They're not just issues confined to sports either; many people experience the same feelings regardless of their financial circumstances when they retire or lose a job. In a way though, I think the mental aspect is exacerbated for people who once performed a job that's involved huge rushes of adenaline and mental 'highs' but no longer can. The fall is so much greater. Imagine one year you're scoring a goal at Wembley and soaking up all the adulation that follows, the next year you're turning out for The Dog 'n'Duck in front of 12 people at Longton Park. Or one day you're in a number one band touring stadiums, the next you're playing at a half-full Wetherspoons in Grimsby and selling CDs out of your car boot. It happens all the time, and not just in jobs that are in the public eye. Some people can deal with that change in circumstances without any serious consequences. Others, for whatever reason, struggle to come to terms with it and spiral into depression, drink, drugs etc. I'd be interested to know whether any professional clubs actually have that chat with players once they're approaching the end of their careers to prepare them for what they might experience. Players have got to WANT to be helped and advised. Clubs, however, willing and organised cannot MAKE players listen to advice, or having got them to listen, cannot make them act upon that advice. When I was within 2 years of retiring, my firm not only organised seminars but provided the funds to employ professional advisers, both financial and personal, so that I was given as much insight into retirement as I cared to take onboard - BUT it was up to me to drive the process, not just wait for everything to be gift-wrapped for me. Maybe sounds harsh but help/guidance/assistance has to be a two-way thing. I agree entirely- it's a two-way process. Some people, in any walk of life, don't want advice, don't want help and don't want to know. That's fine- let them get on with it. You can take the horse to the water and all that... It's good that companies do that kind of thing, and any organisation that has a dedicated occupational health department will be well-versed in the potential pitfalls associated with retirement and loss of occupation.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 30, 2015 16:42:55 GMT
Thought this was a good show and captured the essence of non-league football quite well. Jason Jarrett, who I remember appearing on-loan for us, epitomised the once-famous player now bumming around in the non-league and struggling to come to terms with his reduced status. Unfortunately it seems that a lot of players are just not mentally prepared for the slump that follows retirement or the day when 50,000 people singing their name at Old Trafford is replaced by five blokes hurling abuse at them on a mud heap. Some players handle it better than others: Gary Neville is obviously an intelligent man who understands the importance of keeping himself busy and finding a new niche for himself, but many others will lack the insight to prepare themselves for the day when their bodies can no longer perform at the level they're used to. People might not feel comfortable in feeling sympathy for guys who are being paid thousands of pounds a week, but I think that any amount of material possessions can become immaterial in comparison to a loss of self-worth, self-identity and purpose. It does make you wonder whether football clubs realise that this sense of loss can affect players' mental health and whether they feel any obligation to provide support to players in preparing for the day they hang their boots up. The programme only touched on this issue but it did get me thinking. A young player will not comprehend his limited career until it's nearly over. Most of them can't be arsed to contemplate it until it's nearly over. Some of them do their coaching badges early some can't be arsed. They should and the pfa should be more proactive in getting them ready for new careers all through their playing days Fast cars, 100k kitchens and hiring chefs and PAs seem more appealing though.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 30, 2015 16:44:49 GMT
I agree to point but if you look at the 5 owners they have clearly set themselves up with life after football but by their own admission Jason and Joanne were talking of wasting money on clothes and cars and now the money has stopped they can't lead the high life any more. He was on £9k a week in his hay day players should think about the short life span of footballers and plan ahead I know it's easier said than done but it's a hard fact of the game. I don't think it was necessarily the money that was the issue here, or in most cases when sportsmen/women suffer mental health issues post-retirement. It's more the lack of occupation or reduced sense of self-worth that can accompany retirement or a decline in performance. They're not just issues confined to sports either; many people experience the same feelings regardless of their financial circumstances when they retire or lose a job. In a way though, I think the mental aspect is exacerbated for people who once performed a job that's involved huge rushes of adenaline and mental 'highs' but no longer can. The fall is so much greater. Imagine one year you're scoring a goal at Wembley and soaking up all the adulation that follows, the next year you're turning out for The Dog 'n'Duck in front of 12 people at Longton Park. Or one day you're in a number one band touring stadiums, the next you're playing at a half-full Wetherspoons in Grimsby and selling CDs out of your car boot. It happens all the time, and not just in jobs that are in the public eye. Some people can deal with that change in circumstances without any serious consequences. Others, for whatever reason, struggle to come to terms with it and spiral into depression, drink, drugs etc. I'd be interested to know whether any professional clubs actually have that chat with players once they're approaching the end of their careers to prepare them for what they might experience. I can see the self worth when they are playing. It doesn't help though that they get the high secluded life away from football. VIP areas in clubs etc. They don't interact with common people when in football so struggle when out
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Oct 30, 2015 16:48:50 GMT
I really enjoyed it! I reinforced the high regard that I held Gary Neville in whe showing how much he gets involved.
I did laugh when He suggest Scholes plays again as a treat (although I did cringe at the idea) and he replied that he was too fat lol
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 5, 2015 23:14:49 GMT
Outstanding entertainment. Brilliant TV show.
Newfound respect for the Neville's. Passionate, intelligent and ultimately - likeable chaps.
Great insight into grassroots football.
Loved it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 23:17:27 GMT
Outstanding entertainment. Brilliant TV show. Newfound respect for the Neville's. Passionate, intelligent and ultimately - likeable chaps. Great insight into grassroots football. Loved it. Didnt want it to end to be honest.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 23:19:18 GMT
Very good show but they didn't half play up their battle for promotion I thought! 9 games to go and 3 points behind the leaders and the commentator described achieving promotion as 'almost impossible'
Really?
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 5, 2015 23:23:11 GMT
Very good show but they didn't half play up their battle for promotion I thought! 9 games to go and 3 points behind the leaders and the commentator described achieving promotion as 'almost impossible' Really? It's television.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 23:24:50 GMT
Very good show but they didn't half play up their battle for promotion I thought! 9 games to go and 3 points behind the leaders and the commentator described achieving promotion as 'almost impossible' Really? Yeah true. They were bang out of order with that Seddon bloke as well, moaning about him modelling. It's essentially his job and he's got to earn a wage, if it was any other profession it would be fine. The only part I thought they let themselves down.
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Post by alansuddick on Nov 5, 2015 23:31:39 GMT
Big respect to phil neville, never realised his daughter was disabled , it looks like his positivity has been a huge help to her.never heard him play the victim card and I know money helps, but he seemed hands on.if it were a royal wanker kid would be put in a cupboard under the stairs
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 5, 2015 23:33:33 GMT
Very good show but they didn't half play up their battle for promotion I thought! 9 games to go and 3 points behind the leaders and the commentator described achieving promotion as 'almost impossible' Really? Yeah true. They were bang out of order with that Seddon bloke as well, moaning about him modelling. It's essentially his job and he's got to earn a wage, if it was any other profession it would be fine. The only part I thought they let themselves down. They were right, and they were wrong. They have to take their jobs 100% seriously. Even though it is part time. They had to be seen to take action for him missing the game to stamp their authority. Over the long term he came back into the team and it worked out. The manager's delivered and Seddon did the right thing for his family.
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Post by DentySCFC on Nov 5, 2015 23:39:35 GMT
Gutted it's a only a two parter. Excellent programme, proper football.
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 5, 2015 23:40:35 GMT
Gutted it's a only a two parter. Excellent programme, proper football. I reckon they will do more.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 5, 2015 23:42:06 GMT
Very good show but they didn't half play up their battle for promotion I thought! 9 games to go and 3 points behind the leaders and the commentator described achieving promotion as 'almost impossible' Really? Yeah true. They were bang out of order with that Seddon bloke as well, moaning about him modelling. It's essentially his job and he's got to earn a wage, if it was any other profession it would be fine. The only part I thought they let themselves down. Like Phil Neville said eariler, players at that level are pieces of meat, they don't have contracts and like that other lad they can be let go at any time. If he had the chance to earn a decent amount guaranteed, then he had to.....fuck the team.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 23:56:37 GMT
Yeah true. They were bang out of order with that Seddon bloke as well, moaning about him modelling. It's essentially his job and he's got to earn a wage, if it was any other profession it would be fine. The only part I thought they let themselves down. They were right, and they were wrong. They have to take their jobs 100% seriously. Even though it is part time. They had to be seen to take action for him missing the game to stamp their authority. Over the long term he came back into the team and it worked out. The manager's delivered and Seddon did the right thing for his family. I don't really think there is an argument to it. If he was a tradesman and had to work on an important, well paid job on a Saturday, we wouldn't have seen it in the documentary put it that way.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2015 0:02:00 GMT
They were right, and they were wrong. They have to take their jobs 100% seriously. Even though it is part time. They had to be seen to take action for him missing the game to stamp their authority. Over the long term he came back into the team and it worked out. The manager's delivered and Seddon did the right thing for his family. I don't really think there is an argument to it. If he was a tradesman and had to work on an important, well paid job on a Saturday, we wouldn't have seen it in the documentary put it that way. It happens at most teams at the level they were playing at which was the equivalent of 'Castle Town, Leek, Kidsgrove etc.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 6, 2015 0:12:53 GMT
Players have got to WANT to be helped and advised. Clubs, however, willing and organised cannot MAKE players listen to advice, or having got them to listen, cannot make them act upon that advice. When I was within 2 years of retiring, my firm not only organised seminars but provided the funds to employ professional advisers, both financial and personal, so that I was given as much insight into retirement as I cared to take onboard - BUT it was up to me to drive the process, not just wait for everything to be gift-wrapped for me. Maybe sounds harsh but help/guidance/assistance has to be a two-way thing. I agree entirely- it's a two-way process. Some people, in any walk of life, don't want advice, don't want help and don't want to know. That's fine- let them get on with it. You can take the horse to the water and all that... It's good that companies do that kind of thing, and any organisation that has a dedicated occupational health department will be well-versed in the potential pitfalls associated with retirement and loss of occupation. Another aspect is part of the mindset of the top top player is they have to feel sort of invincible. Whisked into football at an early age. Loads don't make it but he does. Goes on to have a career and not being at the top never occurs to them. When it's over and you have to cut your own toenails and get your own carrots it can be a shock to the system. They aren't exposed to what normal people do all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 0:12:59 GMT
I don't really think there is an argument to it. If he was a tradesman and had to work on an important, well paid job on a Saturday, we wouldn't have seen it in the documentary put it that way. It happens at most teams at the level they were playing at which was the equivalent of 'Castle Town, Leek, Kidsgrove etc. Yep, two of my housemates at uni played in the same league as Salford in the documentary, one of them actually made a cameo. Both had to miss games for uni work at times and the managers never seemed to fully understand.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2015 0:18:00 GMT
It happens at most teams at the level they were playing at which was the equivalent of 'Castle Town, Leek, Kidsgrove etc. Yep, two of my housemates at uni played in the same league as Salford in the documentary, one of them actually made a cameo. Both had to miss games for uni work at times and the managers never seemed to fully understand. Yeah a bloke I work does too and has missed games for work reasons with there being no issues.
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 6, 2015 0:19:44 GMT
You're missing the point.
The manager's do the right thing for them and their team.
The player does the same. Of course he was right to take the modelling gig.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2015 0:27:08 GMT
It happens at that level though WD all of the time.
That's the point and from what I can tell it's usually not a big deal and seen as part of it.
More was made of it than needed.
Especially considering he was getting paid a fuck ton to miss it.
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Post by chamberlain on Nov 6, 2015 0:34:47 GMT
Gutted it's a only a two parter. Excellent programme, proper football. Watched it tonight was that the second one ?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 6, 2015 0:38:16 GMT
Only the BBC can make programmes of this nature as good. Of course it was hyped at some points and I bet that drinking thing two days before was a bit of a set piece but fuck me, imagine commercial TV with the same subject.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 6, 2015 0:54:26 GMT
I haven't seen it. What exactly happened with the model bloke?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 7:20:32 GMT
I deliberately didn't check the league table so it was a surprise they got promoted....couldn't have been a better ending for the show's producers. They're doing well again this season, top 6 with 8 away wins out of 8 but only 1 at home. Their fa cup match is live on bbc2 tonight too
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Post by cheadlepotter on Nov 6, 2015 7:42:24 GMT
I haven't seen it. What exactly happened with the model bloke? He had to miss a big game because of a modelling job abroad that paid well enough to support his family. He was dropped to the bench on his return but then came off said bench to score a 93rd minute winner. He was then put back in the starting 11 for the remaining games, scoring plenty as the team won many games in a row, and then voted player of the season.
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