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Post by stokeharry on Oct 17, 2015 15:53:06 GMT
I prefer our fan base to stay local Why? a fan is a fan . If you like something but do not originate from there are you not allowed to like? Are you not fond of foreign foods,beer`s etc Because I said so ye mate love foreign beers , my favourite is San Miguel You ever tried brasserie?
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 18, 2015 9:35:20 GMT
The club can not grow, in fact it will regress if we cannot attract more international supporters. The revenue created from the Asian market is massive and its a market that the likes of Manu and Arsenal have controlled over the past 20 years. Stoke are trying to get a small slice of this action so we can grow as a brand so we can compete as a football club. Anyone who is against or believes a supporter is someone that lives in Stoke and goes every game is IMO short sighted I am interested in your reason(s) for the opening remark above, Mark I accept that in business that if you are not growing you are always in danger of becoming less efficient, left behind by competitors, and losing customer base; does this apply to football? I also accept that the historical attending support at Stoke is typically in the high 20,000s and very low 30,000s as a season average at best, and that once you step outside the immediate locality you are in the drawing area of other major clubs, many of whom have are better record of winning competitions. Nevertheless I would have thought Stoke still has potential to increase its support in the local area. In order to do this they would need to remove some of the barriers that prevent some local people attending. This includes such things as (a) actually demonstrating they can win competitions (some people don't attend because they think Stoke never win anything), (b) Improved access and egress to the ground (many people are put off by the road access, a rail access would be a huge step up in kudos and accessibility), (c) increased value for money (despite Stoke's best efforts, which are possibly the best, there is still a general public perception that charges for tickets/refreshments/kit etc. are a rip off by football companies who are making a fortune from TV rights.) If it has got to the point where people can't get a ticket for a Watford match, then the club has to seriously think about how to increase capacity and act. But IMO to sustain that support it needs to do some of the thing I've suggested.
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Post by kiwistokie on Oct 18, 2015 9:44:34 GMT
Those empty seats you see are probably season ticket holders who didn't make it for whatever reason [/quote I am a season ticket holder yet only make a few games a season if lucky, but it does mean that it helps me get a ticket for Wembley if we ever return. I will be there for Boxing day game this season
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Post by iamcliveclarke on Oct 18, 2015 10:06:33 GMT
The biggest attraction for those people who aren't already classed as fans is surely success! When we beat Chelsea and on with our stampede to silverware, the name Stoke City will be as popular as.... Swansea :-(
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Post by slpmarc on Oct 21, 2015 18:21:30 GMT
The club can not grow, in fact it will regress if we cannot attract more international supporters. The revenue created from the Asian market is massive and its a market that the likes of Manu and Arsenal have controlled over the past 20 years. Stoke are trying to get a small slice of this action so we can grow as a brand so we can compete as a football club. Anyone who is against or believes a supporter is someone that lives in Stoke and goes every game is IMO short sighted I am interested in your reason(s) for the opening remark above, Mark I accept that in business that if you are not growing you are always in danger of becoming less efficient, left behind by competitors, and losing customer base; does this apply to football? I also accept that the historical attending support at Stoke is typically in the high 20,000s and very low 30,000s as a season average at best, and that once you step outside the immediate locality you are in the drawing area of other major clubs, many of whom have are better record of winning competitions. Nevertheless I would have thought Stoke still has potential to increase its support in the local area. In order to do this they would need to remove some of the barriers that prevent some local people attending. This includes such things as (a) actually demonstrating they can win competitions (some people don't attend because they think Stoke never win anything), (b) Improved access and egress to the ground (many people are put off by the road access, a rail access would be a huge step up in kudos and accessibility), (c) increased value for money (despite Stoke's best efforts, which are possibly the best, there is still a general public perception that charges for tickets/refreshments/kit etc. are a rip off by football companies who are making a fortune from TV rights.) If it has got to the point where people can't get a ticket for a Watford match, then the club has to seriously think about how to increase capacity and act. But IMO to sustain that support it needs to do some of the thing I've suggested. Fans we all know are fickle and judging by the increase In attendances once promoted says that a proportion of those are attending because we are doing well, how many of those would still attend if we for some reason get relegated. We need the Asian market to generate the extra income to be able to compete on wages as it can counter balance FFP if we cannot generate more income this way we could find ourselves stagnating and in this league standing still means regressing
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Post by hartzchoco on Oct 21, 2015 18:46:03 GMT
I prefer our fan base to stay local That hurts. I assume 3,949 miles away does not fit into your definition of 'local'?
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Post by stokeharry on Oct 21, 2015 18:54:08 GMT
I prefer our fan base to stay local That hurts. I assume 3,949 miles away does not fit into your definition of 'local'? Correct
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Post by hartzchoco on Oct 21, 2015 19:08:32 GMT
That hurts. I assume 3,949 miles away does not fit into your definition of 'local'? Correct Damn.
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Post by stokeharry on Oct 21, 2015 19:15:56 GMT
Damn. I'm sure we'll both learn to get over it in time mate
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Post by kernowpotter on Oct 22, 2015 9:51:35 GMT
South west stokies are growing there's a few in st austell st ives bodmin truro go most games
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 22, 2015 10:07:44 GMT
Half season ticket sales very good according to the ticket office as well. We must be getting to the stage where there's literally a thousand or so tickets left for general sale factoring in approx. 21,000 season ticket holders plus tickets for community projects/armed forces etc. plus up to 2,800 for away fans. The student, the exile or the guy who works shifts is basically left with an odd seat to chose from usually on the front couple of rows, and to add to the pain for a category A/A* match they could be paying circa £40-£50 for a ticket. Can't applaud the club enough for their season ticket pricing but it's got to be time to extend the ground in the corner and make it more affordable for those unable to commit to a season ticket for whatever reason...... One thing we should consider if/when we expand the stadium is to offer, as well as half season tickets, ticket vouchers for, say, 6 or 10 games at a discounted price comparable to the half season ticket price per game. There must be many shift workers, fans with family commitments and sheer lack of spare cash, who would go to maybe 6-10 games per season if they could get tickets at a discount. With 1,800 extra seats to fill, initiatives such as that would benefit the club and the fan base.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 22, 2015 10:12:32 GMT
Talking of growing fan bases (or not!), noticed Cardiff seem to be getting about 13000 every home game this season, despite doing quite well. And their midweek game saw the lowest ever crowd at their new ground! Cardiff forum - how can we get crowds back?The Tan rebrand was a triumph.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 22, 2015 10:14:02 GMT
Talking of growing fan bases (or not!), noticed Cardiff seem to be getting about 13000 every home game this season, despite doing quite well. And their midweek game saw the lowest ever crowd at their new ground! Cardiff forum - how can we get crowds back?The Tan rebrand was a triumph. If they go back to their "lucky" red shirts, I would imagine they will sell out every week.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 10:23:54 GMT
Half season ticket sales very good according to the ticket office as well. We must be getting to the stage where there's literally a thousand or so tickets left for general sale factoring in approx. 21,000 season ticket holders plus tickets for community projects/armed forces etc. plus up to 2,800 for away fans. The student, the exile or the guy who works shifts is basically left with an odd seat to chose from usually on the front couple of rows, and to add to the pain for a category A/A* match they could be paying circa £40-£50 for a ticket. Can't applaud the club enough for their season ticket pricing but it's got to be time to extend the ground in the corner and make it more affordable for those unable to commit to a season ticket for whatever reason...... One thing we should consider if/when we expand the stadium is to offer, as well as half season tickets, ticket vouchers for, say, 6 or 10 games at a discounted price comparable to the half season ticket price per game. There must be many shift workers, fans with family commitments and sheer lack of spare cash, who would go to maybe 6-10 games per season if they could get tickets at a discount. With 1,800 extra seats to fill, initiatives such as that would benefit the club and the fan base. Agree and said it many times on here, I personally know people that would snap about 20 of them up for them and their families in a heartbeat.....
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 22, 2015 10:32:11 GMT
Forget about catchment area but focus on ambition and potential.
We should be aiming for 40,000 capacity and to fill that every week. That puts us on a par with Sunderland and Everton.
Would take more than a couple of corners filling in and may take a good 10 years to get there.
That would put us in top 8 of supported teams in the Premier League (we are currently 14th) and match the ambition of the team on the pitch and our manager.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 22, 2015 10:45:45 GMT
I'm all for ambition but 40,000 is stretching it a bit. In our 150 year History we've averaged over 30,000 three times, and those were all only just (30,315 - 30,863 - 31,590) The first two times we did it were the first two years after the Second World War ended, and the other was in 1954.
On the flip-side of that, if we average over 25,000 this season (Which is all but guaranteed) then we'd have averaged over 25,000 for eight years in-a-row, something we've never done before.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 22, 2015 11:07:08 GMT
I'm all for ambition but 40,000 is stretching it a bit. In our 150 year History we've averaged over 30,000 three times, and those were all only just (30,315 - 30,863 - 31,590) The first two times we did it were the first two years after the Second World War ended, and the other was in 1954. On the flip-side of that, if we average over 25,000 this season (Which is all but guaranteed) then we'd have averaged over 25,000 for eight years in-a-row, something we've never done before. Just a point of information - and discounting any ideas like "safe standing" as a way of increasing the capacity, for the time being. The completed big screen corner would raise our capacity to 30,000 ish. Following on from that, 2 new corner extensions at both ends of the main stand would raise the capacity to 35,000 and would mean that the original design could be considered to be "completed". Beyond that - a doubling in size of the Boothen End would raise capacity to 40,000 and would probably be the easiest way to raise capacity as the Boothen End is at the north end of the stadium and increasing its height would have minimal effect on shadows falling on the pitch.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 22, 2015 12:41:54 GMT
I'm all for ambition but 40,000 is stretching it a bit. In our 150 year History we've averaged over 30,000 three times, and those were all only just (30,315 - 30,863 - 31,590) The first two times we did it were the first two years after the Second World War ended, and the other was in 1954. On the flip-side of that, if we average over 25,000 this season (Which is all but guaranteed) then we'd have averaged over 25,000 for eight years in-a-row, something we've never done before. Looking backwards into the past then of course we look like we'll never get above 30k but get this: From about 1985 to 2005 a period of twenty years we must have averaged 15000-18000 in the lower reaches. Then on return to the top-flight we almost doubled to 26000 overnight. Where did that 12,000 supporters suddenly appear from? I think its easy to believe if we increased capacity overnight then we would regularly get 30,000 or just over it. With a few Midlands clubs on the wane, Port Value in terminal decline and the general coverage of Stoke City across the world on TV we need to capture the younger generation NOW and slowly increase the gates. If we EVER want to go from a middling sized club to a BIG club Sunderland were averaging 18,000 in the nineties when they were in the 2nd division. How come they have grown that to 40k now? It takes ambition and a bigger stadium at the very least
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 22, 2015 13:41:38 GMT
I prefer our fan base to stay local Harry and his missus....
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 22, 2015 13:43:21 GMT
The fan base is growing abroad more so than locally. Especially in the US/Canada and East Asia.
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Post by foster on Oct 22, 2015 14:08:56 GMT
I'm all for ambition but 40,000 is stretching it a bit. In our 150 year History we've averaged over 30,000 three times, and those were all only just (30,315 - 30,863 - 31,590) The first two times we did it were the first two years after the Second World War ended, and the other was in 1954. On the flip-side of that, if we average over 25,000 this season (Which is all but guaranteed) then we'd have averaged over 25,000 for eight years in-a-row, something we've never done before. Looking backwards into the past then of course we look like we'll never get above 30k but get this: From about 1985 to 2005 a period of twenty years we must have averaged 15000-18000 in the lower reaches. Then on return to the top-flight we almost doubled to 26000 overnight. Where did that 12,000 supporters suddenly appear from? I think its easy to believe if we increased capacity overnight then we would regularly get 30,000 or just over it. With a few Midlands clubs on the wane, Port Value in terminal decline and the general coverage of Stoke City across the world on TV we need to capture the younger generation NOW and slowly increase the gates. If we EVER want to go from a middling sized club to a BIG club Sunderland were averaging 18,000 in the nineties when they were in the 2nd division. How come they have grown that to 40k now? It takes ambition and a bigger stadium at the very least The Stadium is the one thing we're lagging behind in IMO. Our brand image would benefit massively if we could get a better look and feel Brit. - Budding academy - Top training complex - New style of football - Big Money - High quality players ... - Low budget, small stadium with crap facilities Yes it's a big investment, but it has to be done sooner or later anyway... Here are some images of modern stadiums with capacity's of 35 - 45K. Not saying we should copy one of these, but we should be looking to modernise ours as other clubs in the Prem are starting to do. Juve (120m EUR) 41k RDC Espanyol (60m EUR) 40k Basel (195m EUR) 38k Nice (245m EUR) 35k Some Polish stadium (200m EUR) 43k
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 22, 2015 14:20:19 GMT
I'm all for ambition but 40,000 is stretching it a bit. In our 150 year History we've averaged over 30,000 three times, and those were all only just (30,315 - 30,863 - 31,590) The first two times we did it were the first two years after the Second World War ended, and the other was in 1954. On the flip-side of that, if we average over 25,000 this season (Which is all but guaranteed) then we'd have averaged over 25,000 for eight years in-a-row, something we've never done before. Looking backwards into the past then of course we look like we'll never get above 30k but get this: From about 1985 to 2005 a period of twenty years we must have averaged 15000-18000 in the lower reaches. Those figures are way out I suggest. In our days under Gudjon we tended to get about 12k - 14k and in the seasons that followed in the Championship we fluctuated between averages of 13k - 17k with maybe up to 20k average in the 2 Championship years after Coates brought the club back. I would certainly expand the stadium now. But let's not kid ourselves, if we get relegated there is a real danger that crowds will head to below 20k (as Cardiff's have done) if we don't bounce back quickly. But, lets build the corner and continue to try to grow the fan base because a bigger fan base is our best chance of drawing decent crowds if the worst happens and we did get relegated.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Oct 22, 2015 14:25:31 GMT
The stadium would look and feel a lot better if they filled in the screen corner. The two other corners on the main stand could have their tiers tapered in just like Reading have done at the Madejski, and we could have the changing rooms and tunnel by the Boothen end. Capacity would sit at about 34k which would make us roughly the 15th biggest club ground in the country (11th in the Premier League) instead of being nearly 30th which we are now. Attachment Deleted
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 22, 2015 14:25:55 GMT
From about 1985 to 2005 a period of twenty years we must have averaged 15000-18000 in the lower reaches. No we didn't. During that period we averaged over 15,000 four times (The highest of those being 16,579) In that same period we averaged LESS than 10,000 on four occassions. Our average was around 12,000 over that 20 years. Sunderland were averaging 18,000 in the nineties when they were in the 2nd division. How come they have grown that to 40k now? It takes ambition and a bigger stadium at the very least I really don't know why you keep comparing us to Sunderland, as much as it pains us to say it they're a bigger club than us. During that same period they averaged less than 10,000 zero times. Less than 15,000 twice (They were both late 80's when gates were down everywhere) Over 20,000 ten times. Historically we've had those three averages over 30,000. Sunderland have had averages over 30,000 thirty-seven times!
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Post by foster on Oct 22, 2015 14:35:58 GMT
From about 1985 to 2005 a period of twenty years we must have averaged 15000-18000 in the lower reaches. No we didn't. During that period we averaged over 15,000 four times (The highest of those being 16,579) In that same period we averaged LESS than 10,000 on four occassions. Our average was around 12,000 over that 20 years. Sunderland were averaging 18,000 in the nineties when they were in the 2nd division. How come they have grown that to 40k now? It takes ambition and a bigger stadium at the very least I really don't know why you keep comparing us to Sunderland, as much as it pains us to say it they're a bigger club than us. During that same period they averaged less than 10,000 zero times. Less than 15,000 twice (They were both late 80's when gates were down everywhere) Over 20,000 ten times. Historically we've had those three averages over 30,000. Sunderland have had averages over 30,000 thirty-seven times! Well that's it. The only thing separating us from a number of non-top 6 clubs in the Premier League is the size of our fan base and stadium capacity/attendances. Hence the thread really. How many fans could we get into the ground? How much could/should we expand to? and are overseas merchandising sales / supporter groups increasing?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 22, 2015 14:48:48 GMT
How many fans could we get into the ground? How much could/should we expand to? We should certainly be filling in atleast one corner (Taking us upto, what, about 30,000?) Possibley two corners (Around 32-33,000?) after that I'm not so sure we'd be filling them so often. One thing with any new corners though, for me atleast, is they must be left for pay-on-the-day fans (or something similar) Only then will we get a true indication if we need to be expanding beyond that (IE : We're turning shed loads of fans away each match 'cos we're 'full')
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Post by nott1 on Oct 22, 2015 15:04:57 GMT
If we got the Chinese to do it with 10,000 men, it would only take three days and cost £16.99 and a packet of noodles!
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 22, 2015 15:08:17 GMT
If we got the Chinese to do it with 10,000 men, it would only take three days and cost £16.99 and a packet of noodles! For some reason I clicked 'Display Post' on your reply then (Foolishly I hoped you might have had some worthwhile contribution to the thread) Cheers for reminding me why you're on my blocklist though.
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Post by nott1 on Oct 22, 2015 15:12:55 GMT
If we got the Chinese to do it with 10,000 men, it would only take three days and cost £16.99 and a packet of noodles! For some reason I clicked 'Display Post' on your reply then (Foolishly I hoped you might have had some worthwhile contribution to the thread) Cheers for reminding me why you're on my blocklist though. The Tories have just taken my advice re nuclear power stations (similar scenario), haven't you seen the news?
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Post by foster on Oct 22, 2015 15:16:10 GMT
For some reason I clicked 'Display Post' on your reply then (Foolishly I hoped you might have had some worthwhile contribution to the thread) Cheers for reminding me why you're on my blocklist though. The Tories have just taken my advice re nuclear power stations (similar scenario), haven't you seen the news? Bothered. Go start your argument elsewhere.
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