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Post by Northy on Sept 17, 2015 11:48:43 GMT
Sorry, I meant he jumped with 2 feet off the ground uncontrolled I really don't agree. Ramsey was stretching and his intention was to nick the loose the ball away. You can find hundreds of still photographs of players in situations where both feet are off the ground as they pass, shoot or even go in for a tackle. It doesn't mean they're out of control. Stretching would indicate that one foot is in the ground, in the videos he clearly hasn't going into the tackle
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yamfan
Academy Starlet
Posts: 231
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Post by yamfan on Sept 17, 2015 13:18:45 GMT
If Bendtner hadn't dragged Ryan back by his shirt, Ryan would probably have beaten the Welsh whinger to the ball and there'd have been no incident. Bendtner slunk way into the background and nothing was ever said about it, he's a vile spineless cheat that typifies a lot of the Arsenal players. Maybe it's bred into them, who knows?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 14:17:49 GMT
Ramsey tried to nick the ball away as Ryan was in the process of kicking the ball (Ryan's eyes are on the ball). Ryan was off balance because he'd been tugged. A complete accident.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 17, 2015 14:25:29 GMT
Whilst the Ramsey incident was indeed horrific, let us spare a thought for Jack Cork, who sadly died at the Britannia stadium after his sock came into contact with the edge of a stud on Steven N'Zonzi's boot.
#RIPJack
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 16:02:11 GMT
Looking at the photo above without knowing the outcome, you'd be hard pressed to say who would receive the injury. Ryan's right leg is about to be planted immediately before contact.
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yamfan
Academy Starlet
Posts: 231
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Post by yamfan on Sept 17, 2015 16:16:36 GMT
Looking at the photo above without knowing the outcome, you'd be hard pressed to say who would receive the injury. Ryan's right leg is about to be planted immediately before contact. And you can just see Bentner stood back with his arms in the air, feigning "I didn't touch him ref, honest".
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Post by TheBra1n on Sept 17, 2015 16:30:44 GMT
ive never ever seen it as anything other than an "old fashioned" 50 50, whilst it was happening thats what i thought and i still feel the same way now
the fact is Ryan was in possession of the ball and Ramsey arrived at pace and nicked the ball off Ryans toe as he went to kick it, the result was ryan kicked ramsey, no malice, no forethought just a coming together in a football match that has happened a million times before, occasionally somebody will get hurt, this is one of those cases.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 17, 2015 16:52:26 GMT
Whilst the Ramsey incident was indeed horrific, let us spare a thought for Jack Cork, who sadly died at the Britannia stadium after his sock came into contact with the edge of a stud on Steven N'Zonzi's boot. #RIPJack Agreed. Luckily for N'Zonzi he got deported to Spain before the evidence to prove his guilt surfaced - otherwise he would still be rotting in Newgate Prison as we speak!
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 17, 2015 17:29:16 GMT
Whilst the Ramsey incident was indeed horrific, let us spare a thought for Jack Cork, who sadly died at the Britannia stadium after his sock came into contact with the edge of a stud on Steven N'Zonzi's boot. #RIPJack Agreed. Luckily for N'Zonzi he got deported to Spain before the evidence to prove his guilt surfaced - otherwise he would still be rotting in Newgate Prison as we speak! Newgate? He'd be in Guantanamo Bay with the real scum, the real scourges of humanity after carrying ought such a heinous act of violence.
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lewando
Youth Player
I was very,very drunk
Posts: 325
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Post by lewando on Sept 17, 2015 21:39:42 GMT
Ramsey tried to nick the ball away as Ryan was in the process of kicking the ball (Ryan's eyes are on the ball). Ryan was off balance because he'd been tugged. A complete accident. This has always been my view of the incident
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 21:59:01 GMT
Ramsey tried to nick the ball away as Ryan was in the process of kicking the ball (Ryan's eyes are on the ball). Ryan was off balance because he'd been tugged. A complete accident. This has always been my view of the incident I agree entirely. The only thing you could question is excessive force given where they were on the pitch. But, as many have said before, it's a contact sport, and these things happen.
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Post by stantheman on Sept 17, 2015 23:18:30 GMT
Wasn't Peter Walton also the ref when Rory broke his leg v Sunderland?
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 18, 2015 0:01:23 GMT
I think it's absolutely disgraceful the way Shawcross has been treated. I don't really blame Campbell and Fabergas for being upset in the moment. But the fact that Arsenal (and the press) has let this shit persist for years is pathetic. Compare the persistence of this issue with the reaction to Jonny Evans absolute horror tackle on Stuart Holden -- which essentially ended Holden's career, and for which Holden has publicly forgiven Evans. I don't quite think Evans has had that tackle follow him around like a plague, has he? Again, I don't really fault any player who blows his cool when a teammate is injured. But to drag Ryan's name through the mud for years is disgraceful and far more unprofessional than the original tackle. Compare what's happened on this incident to Petr Čech. We all see Čech on TV lots. We all see that head protector he has to wear. When was the last time anyone in the media reminded you about the incident with Stephen Hunt that causes Čech to wear that head protector? And that's with a visual reminder. It really does take some doing to make Chelsea look like a classy, decent and honourable club. But well done Arsenal, you've done it. In spades.
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sjb
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 60
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Post by sjb on Sept 18, 2015 4:30:32 GMT
Compare what's happened on this incident to Petr Čech. We all see Čech on TV lots. We all see that head protector he has to wear. When was the last time anyone in the media reminded you about the incident with Stephen Hunt that causes Čech to wear that head protector? And that's with a visual reminder. It really does take some doing to make Chelsea look like a classy, decent and honourable club. But well done Arsenal, you've done it. In spades. That would have a lot more to do with the media than the club. They're a lot more obsessed with the Ramsey incident than the Cech one. Mourinho said: "The Cech one, the challenge is a disgrace. He is lucky to still be alive." Mourinho added: "To be angry doesn't help, I'll just wait for the keepers to leave hospital and to get a report on their injuries. "I have to wait and see what the Football Association will do about it and I'm also waiting to hear what the experts think of both incidents. "Carlo I think was knocked out as a consequence of the way he hit the ground, but a knee coming at Petr like that, at such speed...."
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sjb
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 60
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Post by sjb on Sept 18, 2015 4:35:00 GMT
And for those claiming Ramsey broke his leg before the challenge, I feel so sorry for you. That's more nonsensical than those Arsenal fans who demonize Shawcross for the challenge. People who stub heir foot into the ground often momentarily have it in an awkward angle at the moment of imppact with the ground. It doesn't mean you fracture a bone in such a way just by doing so.
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Post by meirparkpotter on Sept 18, 2015 6:37:33 GMT
Looking at the photo above without knowing the outcome, you'd be hard pressed to say who would receive the injury. Ryan's right leg is about to be planted immediately before contact. If you could 'unsee' the incident and ask the question which player is about to get hurt, you certainly wouldn't say Ramsey would you? Shawcross is in possession for me, it wasn't even 50/50... Ramsey is diving in and has no option but to plant his weight if he wants to tackle or go through Shawcross and it still turns out nasty...
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Post by skemstokie on Sept 18, 2015 7:40:40 GMT
Walton by sending Ryan of created a victim and assailant scenario the fact that video of the incident was "censored" by Sky during live broadcast supported this take on the incident. I have no recollection of anyone in the media questioning Bentdner`s part the "assault" it just seem`s to be a case of Ryan being hung out to dry by the media.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 7:45:17 GMT
And for those claiming Ramsey broke his leg before the challenge, I feel so sorry for you. That's more nonsensical than those Arsenal fans who demonize Shawcross for the challenge. People who stub heir foot into the ground often momentarily have it in an awkward angle at the moment of imppact with the ground. It doesn't mean you fracture a bone in such a way just by doing so. Mick Dennis said at the time that he had evidence that exonerated Shawcross from the whole incident. He never brought it forward so either thought better of it or he was told not to. That could range from a photo or video of the way he approached the tackle or a camera angle that showed Ramsey's leg in a poor position before impact. We just don't know and probably never will. What we do know is that Mick Dennis hates us and hates Pulis. The fact he came out and said something at all should tell everyone what they need to know. www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/mick-dennis/161236/Ryan-Shawcross-right-Stoke-wrong
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 18, 2015 7:49:40 GMT
Compare what's happened on this incident to Petr Čech. We all see Čech on TV lots. We all see that head protector he has to wear. When was the last time anyone in the media reminded you about the incident with Stephen Hunt that causes Čech to wear that head protector? And that's with a visual reminder. It really does take some doing to make Chelsea look like a classy, decent and honourable club. But well done Arsenal, you've done it. In spades. That would have a lot more to do with the media than the club. They're a lot more obsessed with the Ramsey incident than the Cech one. Mourinho said: "The Cech one, the challenge is a disgrace. He is lucky to still be alive." Mourinho added: "To be angry doesn't help, I'll just wait for the keepers to leave hospital and to get a report on their injuries. "I have to wait and see what the Football Association will do about it and I'm also waiting to hear what the experts think of both incidents. "Carlo I think was knocked out as a consequence of the way he hit the ground, but a knee coming at Petr like that, at such speed...." But why are the media much more obsessed with the Ramsey incident, and continue to be? The 'victims' in both incidents were the big media friendly clubs. The 'perpetrator' was a small unfashionable club. One incident - despite a visual reminder isn't mentioned at all, the other incident is mentioned frequently? It does feel like Arsenal could be stoking the fire in the background doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 7:54:18 GMT
Really bizarre that Shawcross has become the poster boy for horror tackles on the strength of this incident, when the media's line in the immediate aftermath was basically this...
"Television evidence suggested Shawcross was guilty of mis-control rather than recklessness or malice. The referee, Peter Walton, looked unsure how, or even whether, to penalise the former Manchester United reserve, producing a red card only after seeing how badly Ramsey was hurt. This was not Roy Keane and Alf-Inge Haaland revisited."
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 18, 2015 8:27:42 GMT
And for those claiming Ramsey broke his leg before the challenge, I feel so sorry for you. That's more nonsensical than those Arsenal fans who demonize Shawcross for the challenge. People who stub heir foot into the ground often momentarily have it in an awkward angle at the moment of imppact with the ground. It doesn't mean you fracture a bone in such a way just by doing so. Ramsey's leg is already broken in the photo and it does appear that this is before Ryan actually makes contact. So it's "nonsensical" at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 8:42:53 GMT
For me there's no debate to be had regarding the cause of the injury, it was the collision. The photo that suggests otherwise was probably at this moment, after impact.
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sjb
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 60
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Post by sjb on Sept 18, 2015 8:57:53 GMT
And for those claiming Ramsey broke his leg before the challenge, I feel so sorry for you. That's more nonsensical than those Arsenal fans who demonize Shawcross for the challenge. People who stub heir foot into the ground often momentarily have it in an awkward angle at the moment of imppact with the ground. It doesn't mean you fracture a bone in such a way just by doing so. Ramsey's leg is already broken in the photo and it does appear that this is before Ryan actually makes contact. So it's "nonsensical" at all. That picture is clearly AFTER impact. Stop being silly. Shawcross' innocence of any intention is clearly compelling enough without having to invent falsehoods.
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sjb
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 60
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Post by sjb on Sept 18, 2015 9:08:50 GMT
That would have a lot more to do with the media than the club. They're a lot more obsessed with the Ramsey incident than the Cech one. Mourinho said: "The Cech one, the challenge is a disgrace. He is lucky to still be alive." Mourinho added: "To be angry doesn't help, I'll just wait for the keepers to leave hospital and to get a report on their injuries. "I have to wait and see what the Football Association will do about it and I'm also waiting to hear what the experts think of both incidents. "Carlo I think was knocked out as a consequence of the way he hit the ground, but a knee coming at Petr like that, at such speed...." But why are the media much more obsessed with the Ramsey incident, and continue to be? The 'victims' in both incidents were the big media friendly clubs. The 'perpetrator' was a small unfashionable club. One incident - despite a visual reminder isn't mentioned at all, the other incident is mentioned frequently? It does feel like Arsenal could be stoking the fire in the background doesn't it? In the "background"? That's a little paranoid. So you assume Wenger and the club officials have nothing better to do than keep the Shawcross incident running in the media?
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Post by jonnybravo on Sept 18, 2015 9:11:57 GMT
Ramsey's leg is already broken in the photo and it does appear that this is before Ryan actually makes contact. So it's "nonsensical" at all. That picture is clearly AFTER impact. Stop being silly. Shawcross' innocence of any intention is clearly compelling enough without having to invent falsehoods. How can that picture be after impact, he was going forward with his legs straight if it was after impact his hole body would of been through Ramsey,unless he's from the matrix and was able to reverse his body motion backwards after impact!!
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 18, 2015 9:21:05 GMT
That picture is clearly AFTER impact. Stop being silly. Shawcross' innocence of any intention is clearly compelling enough without having to invent falsehoods. How can that picture be after impact, he was going forward with his legs straight if it was after impact his hole body would of been through Ramsey,unless he's from the matrix and was able to reverse his body motion backwards after impact!! Mamaroll's second picture is the same as the one abobe but from a different angle, so the effect is definately after the impact. That said, Shawcross is not guilty at all nor reckless. Both went for the ball as they were entitled to do, Ramsey nipped and stubbed the ball just before Shawcross could kick the ball away. his leg was where the ball was and Ryan simply carried through the motion as it was all over in miliseconds. I dont think anyone could have done any different in the circumstances. An accident and part of the game... nothing more.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 18, 2015 9:33:31 GMT
But why are the media much more obsessed with the Ramsey incident, and continue to be? The 'victims' in both incidents were the big media friendly clubs. The 'perpetrator' was a small unfashionable club. One incident - despite a visual reminder isn't mentioned at all, the other incident is mentioned frequently? It does feel like Arsenal could be stoking the fire in the background doesn't it? In the "background"? That's a little paranoid. So you assume Wenger and the club officials have nothing better to do than keep the Shawcross incident running in the media? So why has this gone on and on while the Čech incident is forgotten?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 18, 2015 9:49:30 GMT
And for those claiming Ramsey broke his leg before the challenge, I feel so sorry for you. That's more nonsensical than those Arsenal fans who demonize Shawcross for the challenge. People who stub heir foot into the ground often momentarily have it in an awkward angle at the moment of imppact with the ground. It doesn't mean you fracture a bone in such a way just by doing so. Mick Dennis said at the time that he had evidence that exonerated Shawcross from the whole incident. He never brought it forward so either thought better of it or he was told not to. That could range from a photo or video of the way he approached the tackle or a camera angle that showed Ramsey's leg in a poor position before impact. We just don't know and probably never will. What we do know is that Mick Dennis hates us and hates Pulis. The fact he came out and said something at all should tell everyone what they need to know. www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/mick-dennis/161236/Ryan-Shawcross-right-Stoke-wrongThe only thing funnier than tony pulis being the manager of the west Brazilians would be tony pulis being the manager at Mick Dennis' beloved Norwich City :-)
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Post by StoKeith on Sept 18, 2015 9:51:21 GMT
And for those claiming Ramsey broke his leg before the challenge, I feel so sorry for you. That's more nonsensical than those Arsenal fans who demonize Shawcross for the challenge. People who stub heir foot into the ground often momentarily have it in an awkward angle at the moment of imppact with the ground. It doesn't mean you fracture a bone in such a way just by doing so. Ramsey's leg is already broken in the photo and it does appear that this is before Ryan actually makes contact. So it's "nonsensical" at all. Actually, as that picture was taken with a telephoto lens (unless the cameraman was on the pitch!), the photo is affected by "compression distortion" which essentially makes it difficult to know what is closer and what is further away. It may look like Ryan is yet to make contact due to the distortion of perspective, but you can pretty much guarantee that this photo was taken a split second after contact was made. Here's the wiki page on Perspective distortion: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)
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sjb
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 60
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Post by sjb on Sept 18, 2015 10:05:22 GMT
In the "background"? That's a little paranoid. So you assume Wenger and the club officials have nothing better to do than keep the Shawcross incident running in the media? So why has this gone on and on while the Čech incident is forgotten? Ramsey and Shawcross are prominent PL players. Hunt is an obscure player. Except I do a quick google, I couldn't tell you anything about him. A greater history of resentment between Arsenal and Stoke and both managers further added an edge to it. Chelsea share no such history with Wolves.
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