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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:25:09 GMT
Lets shut this place, Twitter, the pub and any talk of football and footballers down. What a stupid argument. No, the stupid argument is writing - off a player, that hasn't been given a chance, also the pathetic little names OTHER posters have been calling our own fucking player is also stupid. I am all for opinions being different and being discussed, but not to the point you start calling him a coward, that's just spiteful bullshit, and when you spew that kind of rubbish, you really do make yourself look... Stupid. He has been given a chance though. It was an audition, he failed it. He's a coward of a defender, he won't put his body on the line for the cause, which makes him a coward of a defender to me. Leon Cort is a great example of that. He's actually similar to him but better obviously. I never did like Cort.
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Post by crownmeking on Jul 26, 2015 22:27:20 GMT
No, the stupid argument is writing - off a player, that hasn't been given a chance, also the pathetic little names OTHER posters have been calling our own fucking player is also stupid. I am all for opinions being different and being discussed, but not to the point you start calling him a coward, that's just spiteful bullshit, and when you spew that kind of rubbish, you really do make yourself look... Stupid. He has been given a chance though. It was an audition, he failed it. He's a coward of a defender, he won't put his body on the line for the cause, which makes him a coward of a defender to me. Leon Cort is a great example of that. He's actually similar to him but better obviously. I never did like Cort. I think you will find he passed his audition, if that's how you want to refer to it - He was signed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 22:27:37 GMT
It always amazes me how many arm chair posters on this forum are prepared to write - off a player so quickly. Obviously they know a lot more about the game than erm... The manager of our club. After 14 games you sort of get a pretty good picture of a player, well most do how many do you think we should judge him on ? No you don't, some players take 12 months to settle particularly in a foreign league, and particularly the high intensity of the Premier League. Are you saying after Leicester away, Villa away, Newcastle away, Southampton at home, Hull at home, West Ham away, Chelsea away you came away thinking "Wollscheid is absolutely shit".........
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 26, 2015 22:28:19 GMT
we dont "seem " to concede less goals,the stats confirm that its a" fact" that we concede less goals.what more can a defence do? Not make as many individual mistakes as they do and concede less goals from set pieces. Set pieces in general need working on though, if we could sort them out at both ends last we'd have finished way up the table. I think you've hit your thumb with a few of your recent hammer blows. But this one was nail on head. Bob on.
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Post by Gods on Jul 26, 2015 22:30:58 GMT
It always amazes me how many arm chair posters on this forum are prepared to write - off a player so quickly. Obviously they know a lot more about the game than erm... The manager of our club. After 14 games you sort of get a pretty good picture of a player, well most do how many do you think we should judge him on ? I always feel I have a pretty good idea which serves me well 90% of the time after about 14 minutes
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:31:28 GMT
He has been given a chance though. It was an audition, he failed it. He's a coward of a defender, he won't put his body on the line for the cause, which makes him a coward of a defender to me. Leon Cort is a great example of that. He's actually similar to him but better obviously. I never did like Cort. I think you will find he passed his audition, if that's how you want to refer to it - He was signed. He was and what a mistake that is! Johnny Tex was signed after a month's audition too and I've never seen anything quite like him in the reserves, he was laugh out loud bad. That's where my real scepticism comes from around Hughes and defenders. I do think we had to sign Wolly mind because his audition was hit and miss at best, I don't get why you'd do it else.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:32:41 GMT
After 14 games you sort of get a pretty good picture of a player, well most do how many do you think we should judge him on ? No you don't, some players take 12 months to settle particularly in a foreign league, and particularly the high intensity of the Premier League. Are you saying after Leicester away, Villa away, Newcastle away, Southampton at home, Hull at home, West Ham away, Chelsea away you came away thinking "Wollscheid is absolutely shit"......... Yes. Easily.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 22:33:55 GMT
I think the easiest way to sum it up is that despite having far more possession than we've enjoyed in the past, we seem to concede goals when we are well on top, mostly via set pieces. Generally we concede less now because we defend less due to our enhanced attacking play but (and I certainly don't have the stats to back it up!) it feels like teams don't have to do much to score when situations arise for them. We concede goals at set pieces and crosses in general as we have lots of defenders who ball watch. Our shape is pretty good,we don't get pulled apart. So frustrating. Correct. Set pieces are our Achilles heel, but you can't single out a particular defender as it would be unfair. It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, under Pulis we did drill after drill defending and attacking at set pieces, under Hughes we do more ball work where the defenders concentrate more on ball retention as well as working on their overall shape. It's a trade off, more expansive at one end, but more prone to concede a sloppy goal at the other. Only when we get in the "next level" of player can we look to have both, and we all know how difficult that is proving. It's a trade off I'm more than happy with personally when the alternative is Pulisball during the last 12 months of his reign.......
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 26, 2015 22:36:22 GMT
I think the easiest way to sum it up is that despite having far more possession than we've enjoyed in the past, we seem to concede goals when we are well on top, mostly via set pieces. Generally we concede less now because we defend less due to our enhanced attacking play but (and I certainly don't have the stats to back it up!) it feels like teams don't have to do much to score when situations arise for them. we dont "seem " to concede less goals,the stats confirm that its a" fact" that we concede less goals.what more can a defence do? Can you point me in the direction of the bit where I said it "seems" we concede less? I know we concede less as we don't have to defend as much as we are a better team in possession than we've been before. The point (which you appear to have totally missed) is that we'd concede even less and win more points if we cut out some of the mistakes that are repeatedly making. Surely everybody wants that?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 22:36:21 GMT
No you don't, some players take 12 months to settle particularly in a foreign league, and particularly the high intensity of the Premier League. Are you saying after Leicester away, Villa away, Newcastle away, Southampton at home, Hull at home, West Ham away, Chelsea away you came away thinking "Wollscheid is absolutely shit"......... Yes. Easily. then you're an idiot it has to be said........
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 22:38:52 GMT
No, the stupid argument is writing - off a player, that hasn't been given a chance, also the pathetic little names OTHER posters have been calling our own fucking player is also stupid. I am all for opinions being different and being discussed, but not to the point you start calling him a coward, that's just spiteful bullshit, and when you spew that kind of rubbish, you really do make yourself look... Stupid. He has been given a chance though. It was an audition, he failed it. He's a coward of a defender, he won't put his body on the line for the cause, which makes him a coward of a defender to me. Leon Cort is a great example of that. He's actually similar to him but better obviously. I never did like Cort. You keep banging on about auditions. It's pretty fucking baffling......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:39:03 GMT
then you're an idiot it has to be said........ It's more than enough when the issues highlighted are numerous and need a hell of a lot of work. We could easily have found better, we sold someone who fits that bill.....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:40:27 GMT
He has been given a chance though. It was an audition, he failed it. He's a coward of a defender, he won't put his body on the line for the cause, which makes him a coward of a defender to me. Leon Cort is a great example of that. He's actually similar to him but better obviously. I never did like Cort. You keep banging on about auditions. It's pretty funking baffling...... His loan was described as a try before you buy period. We tried and it wasn't great.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 26, 2015 22:44:07 GMT
We concede goals at set pieces and crosses in general as we have lots of defenders who ball watch. Our shape is pretty good,we don't get pulled apart. So frustrating. Correct. Set pieces are our Achilles heel, but you can't single out a particular defender as it would be unfair. It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, under Pulis we did drill after drill defending and attacking at set pieces, under Hughes we do more ball work where the defenders concentrate more on ball retention as well as working on their overall shape. It's a trade off, more expansive at one end, but more prone to concede a sloppy goal at the other. Only when we get in the "next level" of player can we look to have both, and we all know how difficult that is proving. It's a trade off I'm more than happy with personally when the alternative is Pulisball during the last 12 months of his reign....... Surely there's room for both, just an afternoon a week trying out attacking set piece routines, corners and such, and the defending of them. At times the dead ball looked to be a chore. It is something they should be working on. I'm amazed they aren't, an obvious way of turning the increased possession into points. Especially useful in those scrappy tight games against the lower teams. Hope it improves this season.
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 26, 2015 22:45:16 GMT
After 14 games you sort of get a pretty good picture of a player, well most do how many do you think we should judge him on ? I always feel I have a pretty good idea which serves me well 90% of the time after about 14 minutes So do I after watching him against Arsenal on his debut I would have sent him straight back, slow, ponderous not an athlete not as good as Huth end of.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:46:06 GMT
Correct. Set pieces are our Achilles heel, but you can't single out a particular defender as it would be unfair. It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, under Pulis we did drill after drill defending and attacking at set pieces, under Hughes we do more ball work where the defenders concentrate more on ball retention as well as working on their overall shape. It's a trade off, more expansive at one end, but more prone to concede a sloppy goal at the other. Only when we get in the "next level" of player can we look to have both, and we all know how difficult that is proving. It's a trade off I'm more than happy with personally when the alternative is Pulisball during the last 12 months of his reign....... Surely there's room for both, just an afternoon a week trying out attacking set piece routines, corners and such, and the defending of them. At times the dead ball looked to be a chore. It is something they should be working on. I'm amazed they aren't, an obvious way of turning the increased possession into points. Especially useful in those scrappy tight games against the lower teams. Hope it improves this season. Yeah it's like we don't do anything on set pieces especially the attacking ones. Nobody is trying to make space for others and the aim is just to hope the ball reaches someone, it's pretty pathetic. It shouldn't be our main focus like it was but some work on them would be nice and wouldn't (you hope) take away from other aspects of our game.
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Post by discokaraoke on Jul 26, 2015 22:48:18 GMT
After 14 games you sort of get a pretty good picture of a player, well most do how many do you think we should judge him on ? No you don't, some players take 12 months to settle particularly in a foreign league, and particularly the high intensity of the Premier League. Are you saying after Leicester away, Villa away, Newcastle away, Southampton at home, Hull at home, West Ham away, Chelsea away you came away thinking "Wollscheid is absolutely shit"......... Did he not get a couple of MOTM awards along the way as well? I believe he will come good for us. I have seen him play mint, and i've seen him not so mint. I think we should just trust our manager and his opinion on him. I just think some fans don't rate him cuz he runs funny?
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 26, 2015 22:49:25 GMT
After 14 games you sort of get a pretty good picture of a player, well most do how many do you think we should judge him on ? 15 Is that enough how about 14.5 just watched his second half performance on Saturday yep not changed my mind, apparently no better against non league Wrexham so nearly hit your benchmark
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:51:23 GMT
No you don't, some players take 12 months to settle particularly in a foreign league, and particularly the high intensity of the Premier League. Are you saying after Leicester away, Villa away, Newcastle away, Southampton at home, Hull at home, West Ham away, Chelsea away you came away thinking "Wollscheid is absolutely shit"......... Did he not get a couple of MOTM awards along the way as well? I believe he will come good for us. I have seen him play mint, and i've seen him not so mint. I think we should just trust our manager and his opinion on him. I just think some fans don't rate him cuz he runs funny? He runs slowly. Lewis Buxton used to run funnily!
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 26, 2015 22:55:48 GMT
It's futile to keep beating Wollscheid {and Hughes and co} with the Huth stick. I still believe Wollscheid was brought in essentially as cover for Ryan not as his partner. It's Wilson and Muniesa who've superceded Robert.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2015 23:00:00 GMT
It's futile to keep beating Wollscheid {and Hughes and co} with the Huth stick. I still believe Wollscheid was brought in essentially as cover for Ryan not as his partner. It's Wilson and Muniesa who've superceded Robert. I don't think it is. We've let a quality defender go and replaced him with a lesser player. Muni should rightly start ahead of Huth but for the 50% of the time when Muni is knackered it should have been Huth playing. He'd get plenty of game time and is better than Wilson and Wolly by quite some distance.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Jul 26, 2015 23:26:54 GMT
The Oatcake kangaroo court has delivered its verdict on Wolscheid after only a handful of appearances .....some don't even get a handful It's getting depressingly familiar With the usual judge and jury
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Post by discokaraoke on Jul 26, 2015 23:28:27 GMT
It's futile to keep beating Wollscheid {and Hughes and co} with the Huth stick. I still believe Wollscheid was brought in essentially as cover for Ryan not as his partner. It's Wilson and Muniesa who've superceded Robert. Yeah, i kinda like that, i would kind of agree with some of the criticism of wolly if we had paid 7 or 8 million for him. but then again some think that amount is nowt in today's market. We have signed a German international, so he can't be be that bad surely? Ozil at the Arse anal took a season to get used to the prem, some of there fans slagged him off as well. Ok, as a player ,Ozil is a different kettle of Fish
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 26, 2015 23:48:57 GMT
The Oatcake kangaroo court has delivered its verdict on Wolscheid after only a handful of appearances .....some don't even get a handful It's getting depressingly familiar It seemed enough for Hughes when he and Wilson were fit Wilson got the nod, seems strange if he thought Wolly was a step up, it's the main reason I think we had no choice in signing him.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 26, 2015 23:54:07 GMT
It's futile to keep beating Wollscheid {and Hughes and co} with the Huth stick. I still believe Wollscheid was brought in essentially as cover for Ryan not as his partner. It's Wilson and Muniesa who've superceded Robert. I don't think it is. We've let a quality defender go and replaced him with a lesser player. Muni should rightly start ahead of Huth but for the 50% of the time when Muni is knackered it should have been Huth playing. He'd get plenty of game time and is better than Wilson and Wolly by quite some distance. There are no doubt loads of factors why it was Huth's time to move on that we'll never be privvy to. Perhaps Huth himself didn't fancy the new direction, and wanted a different challenge, a dog fight. My last few memories of Huth for us weren't brill, I know he did the bizz for Leicester, but that was part of a backs to the wall 5 at the back. A different spec to what our management required. He's gone. I thought Wollscheid looked quality in his first couple of outings. I presumed he'd be heading for the gym, and as I say used as cover.. I guess that you won't be swayed by the myriad of justifications why we should be more patient with our judgement of him. I'll bide me time before writing him off. Mind you I havn't taken against Texeira yet either.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 27, 2015 0:00:04 GMT
I don't think it is. We've let a quality defender go and replaced him with a lesser player. Muni should rightly start ahead of Huth but for the 50% of the time when Muni is knackered it should have been Huth playing. He'd get plenty of game time and is better than Wilson and Wolly by quite some distance. There are no doubt loads of factors why it was Huth's time to move on that we'll never be privvy to. Perhaps Huth himself didn't fancy the new direction, and wanted a different challenge, a dog fight. My last few memories of Huth for us weren't brill, I know he did the bizz for Leicester, but that was part of a backs to the wall 5 at the back. A different spec to what our management required. He's gone. I thought Wollscheid looked quality in his first couple of outings. I presumed he'd be heading for the gym, and as I say used as cover.. I guess that you won't be swayed by the myriad of justifications why we should be more patient with our judgement of him. I'll bide me time before writing him off. Mind you I havn't taken against Texeira yet either. His last impression was winning towering headers against Arsenal as we were clinging on for dear life isn't it? His third outing was Rochdale, it was the first I'd seen him and I was expecting great things after reading about him on here. I think what followed didn't help! We were very lucky not to be going in 3/4-1 down and him and Shawcross were both horrible. Not really, it just seems like a waste of money when you've let a better back up go. He's had 6 months, how much more time does he need? Tex is in my arch for liking, a lovable underdog plucked from obscurity who I can get behind, love, cherish, long for and then be disappointed when he doesn't play (see Demar Phillips and Diego Arismendi). But having seen him play for the U-21's, I've never quite ever seen anything like him. It was like they got a bloke out of the stand and gave him a game. It was just surreal!
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 27, 2015 0:08:43 GMT
There are no doubt loads of factors why it was Huth's time to move on that we'll never be privvy to. Perhaps Huth himself didn't fancy the new direction, and wanted a different challenge, a dog fight. My last few memories of Huth for us weren't brill, I know he did the bizz for Leicester, but that was part of a backs to the wall 5 at the back. A different spec to what our management required. He's gone. I thought Wollscheid looked quality in his first couple of outings. I presumed he'd be heading for the gym, and as I say used as cover.. I guess that you won't be swayed by the myriad of justifications why we should be more patient with our judgement of him. I'll bide me time before writing him off. Mind you I havn't taken against Texeira yet either. His last impression was winning towering headers against Arsenal as we were clinging on for dear life isn't it? His third outing was Rochdale, it was the first I'd seen him and I was expecting great things after reading about him on here. I think what followed didn't help! We were very lucky not to be going in 3/4-1 down and him and Shawcross were both horrible. Not really, it just seems like a waste of money when you've let a better back up go. He's had 6 months, how much more time does he need? Tex is in my arch for liking, a lovable underdog plucked from obscurity who I can get behind, love, cherish, long for and then be disappointed when he doesn't play (see Demar Phillips and Diego Arismendi). But having seen him play for the U-21's, I've never quite ever seen anything like him. It was like they got a bloke out of the stand and gave him a game. It was just surreal! Was Tex playing with a broken foot? A flying left back doesn't look like his slot, his crossing wasn't up to much on the Wrexham periscope but he does look like a bit of a beast. Looking forward to seeing how he develops, if he features {in the Cups perhaps} or out on loan.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 27, 2015 0:20:45 GMT
His last impression was winning towering headers against Arsenal as we were clinging on for dear life isn't it? His third outing was Rochdale, it was the first I'd seen him and I was expecting great things after reading about him on here. I think what followed didn't help! We were very lucky not to be going in 3/4-1 down and him and Shawcross were both horrible. Not really, it just seems like a waste of money when you've let a better back up go. He's had 6 months, how much more time does he need? Tex is in my arch for liking, a lovable underdog plucked from obscurity who I can get behind, love, cherish, long for and then be disappointed when he doesn't play (see Demar Phillips and Diego Arismendi). But having seen him play for the U-21's, I've never quite ever seen anything like him. It was like they got a bloke out of the stand and gave him a game. It was just surreal! Was Tex playing with a broken foot? A flying left back doesn't look like his slot, his crossing wasn't up to much on the Wrexham periscope but he does look like a bit of a beast. Looking forward to seeing how he develops, if he features {in the Cups perhaps} or out on loan. I don't think so, it was the back end of the season, even with a broken I'd expect an alleged professional to play better than he did. He was playing at centre half btw. He's clearly not a left back! If people were watching those U-21 games they won't want him.
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Post by WorkingclassHero on Jul 27, 2015 0:43:18 GMT
Wolf is a cheap as chips backup for Ryan. Not sure what the issue is.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jul 27, 2015 6:50:00 GMT
So after reading 10 pages of were doomed and Wollscheid is shit after 6 months of intermittent starts in a new league.. Benji and Bayern are in agreement then... well all we need is March's report for the final say for the three blind mice and this will be 100% sorted before it even began
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