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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:12:24 GMT
I thought Stones was going to be the real deal. Jesus wept. He's another one that's got a good reputation based on what?? I thought he looked terrible at the Brit last season and not a patch on Ryan. He's a different kind of CH to Ryan but you're either good enough, or you're not.
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Post by march4 on Jun 24, 2015 22:12:55 GMT
Matthew Syed's book, 'Bounce' expains why Football Academies do not work in this country. It is all to do with us telling young footballers at the start of their careers that they are incredibly talented. Countries such as Germany have a different mental approach and tell the youngsters that they have great potential that will only be realised by working harder than anyone else on every aspect of their development. He knows what he is talking about as a double Olympian and top of his sport in the UK for 10 years. He was talking to Chris Evans on Radio 2 this morning. All of the UK's top table tennis players came from the same street a few houses apart. Reason - they had a good coach who encouraged them all to train every spare hour they had. Nothing to do with talent. We also tend to coach flair and ability out of kids from the minute they display any kind of individual brilliance. We tend to coach their 'love of the game' out of them. They think they can only improve by being coached. In truth they need to put in 1000's of hours paractice and a coach isn't necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:18:55 GMT
Stones ought to be banished forever, if there's any consistency.
Get torn apart by an on-fire top-five-in-the-world striker having come on cold as a sub, in a friendly.
Or get shown up as a labouring donkey against a kid from Sassuolo in a must-not- lose competitive game.
Which is worse??
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 24, 2015 22:19:04 GMT
John Stones is fucking rubbish. He's like a white Titus Bramble.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 24, 2015 22:24:12 GMT
Young Stones must be still suffering from the affects of concussion. No one could of been that wank tonight without a legitimate excuse.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jun 24, 2015 22:28:28 GMT
Whe will we realise that we only produce bog standard players in the main , nowhere near teams like Italy as competitive results prove
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 25, 2015 2:45:12 GMT
Whe will we realise that we only produce bog standard players in the main , nowhere near teams like Italy as competitive results prove It's been the same for years. Yet when tournaments come round England get slated for going out at the quarter final. By any historical measure quarter final is a decent showing for England.
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Post by redandwhitetundra on Jun 25, 2015 6:19:45 GMT
I just had a bizarre idea after reading an article by Lawrenson.
He actually speaks some sense - saying in the most part, young players are paid too much too soon (he also criticises clubs for not wanting their players to play for England, and says we could have won it easily with the likes of Luke Shaw...)
Why don't the FA say to Southgate (or whoever the next U21 manager is) that they can only select players for U21 from outside of the Premier League.
It brings the hunger into the international game. Develops more players for the international stage. Keeps Premier League managers happy (which I don't really agree with). Pushes the current setup to push themselves more. Will develop the lower leagues more, eventually providing a more open platform?
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Post by sheriff on Jun 25, 2015 8:47:13 GMT
Where have I mentioned Paulinho. Mason has done well for Spurs. Has he done well enough to walk straight into the England team and to sign a ridiculously lucrative contract extension? Has he bollocks. N'zonzi wiped the floor with him in our games v Spurs. My opinion on Stones isn't based on bias. It is based on watching him struggle to handle Diouf at Goodison Park yet watching Muniesa handle Lukaku easily at the other end of the pitch. Factor in that Everton's defensive record has fallen apart with his regular introduction into the team and you have a player who is massively overrated way too early in his career. The U-21 team conceded 1 goal in two games against better opposition than Italy. He comes back into the side and we get dicked. Coincidence? If those comparisons bother you so much, take Ross Barkley v Bojan. Both played in the Everton v Stoke fixture and there was only one superstar on show that day. It certainly wasn't Ross Barkley. You could take other players as well if you want from other clubs. Frank Lampard v Luka Modric for example? Steven Gerrard v Yaya Toure. British players are hailed as world beaters before they've done anything when in truth, there are players from lesser nations who are far better, cost clubs far less money yet don't, for whatever reason, enjoy the plaudits that any British player gets purely for being mediocre. Mason hasn't walked straight into the England team. He had what was it....one cap when there was a midfield injury crisis? What ludicrously lucrative extension? Do you know the terms of his contract? And I saw your games with Spurs. The more ruthless team won. I wouldn't say Nzonzi wiped the floor with anyone. The point I was making is Dembele who would walk into your team and Paulinho who probably would are benched by Mason, so the lad must be doing a lot right. Your manner of comparing 2 defenders based on your head-to-head match is ridiculous. Barca were beaten by Moyes' relegation threatened Sociedad last season. I'm not sure they'll be making a grab for the Sociedad squad anytime soon because they were outperformed by Sociedad. Your blaming of Stones for Everton's problems is wrong. Ask any Evertonian and they'll tell you he was their best CB last season and his injury was the lowest point of their season. If an Everton fan did a teamsheet, Stones and Coleman would be the first name in their team. He's a composed, cool-headed defender with very good physical and technical qualities. The kind who would easily make the transition to a top club, like Ferdinand did. Your saying Muniesa is miles better than him is driven by nothing but club bias. And why would you compare Lampard unfavourably with Modric. Apart from the fact they're 2 very different players who would complement each other, Lampard's career legacy is leagues and leagues above. If it was easy to score well over 200 goals for a club, many central midfielders would be doing it, rather than one guy in decades.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 25, 2015 8:50:54 GMT
Whe will we realise that we only produce bog standard players in the main , nowhere near teams like Italy as competitive results prove It's been the same for years. Yet when tournaments come round England get slated for going out at the quarter final. By any historical measure quarter final is a decent showing for England.
But it's not good enough given the amount of money ploughed into football in England and the size of the population. I read somewhere that even the Women's team are by far the best funded in Women's football.
English football is ROTTEN.
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Post by sheriff on Jun 25, 2015 9:04:48 GMT
Oh, and Stones is 21-years-old and probably not match sharp, with this being his first game. Defensive units are a lot about chemistry. These are logical, mitigating circumstances. If he played for Stoke, they're excuses you may raise. But too many are too consumed with resentment over Shawcross getting overlooked for England and the jealousy has driven you into slaughtering a kid who just had a bad day. Top nations like Spain didn't even qualify for this tournament, but fuvre world stars could still come from the squad. I remember a French team around 2001 that destroyed everyone at the U20 World Cup and that entire team turned out wank. 2 of its top stars in Sinama-Pongol and LeTallec ended up rotting in Liverpool's reserves.
England should also learn to play its best eligible players. The Spanish team that won this tournament in 2011 had big names like Javi Martinez, Ander Herrera, Thiago, Koke and Mata in their midfield. 2 years later, they won it again with a midfield of Thiago, Koke, Illaramendi, Isco and Munian. Eligible players like Wilshere, Ox, Sterling and Barkley could have made a huge difference to this team.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 25, 2015 9:24:49 GMT
Senior squad, crap in Tournaments. Under 21s,Crap in Tournaments. There seems to be a pattern there, methinks. Woy, crap yes man. Southgate, crap yes man. Another pattern. Southgate should have demanded the release of players like Shaw, Sterling etc.If he ain't got the bottle to demand the release of certain players, he needs to find another job.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jun 25, 2015 9:37:27 GMT
Oh, and Stones is 21-years-old and probably not match sharp, with this being his first game. Defensive units are a lot about chemistry. These are logical, mitigating circumstances. If he played for Stoke, they're excuses you may raise. But too many are too consumed with resentment over Shawcross getting overlooked for England and the jealousy has driven you into slaughtering a kid who just had a bad day. Top nations like Spain didn't even qualify for this tournament, but fuvre world stars could still come from the squad. I remember a French team around 2001 that destroyed everyone at the U20 World Cup and that entire team turned out wank. 2 of its top stars in Sinama-Pongol and LeTallec ended up rotting in Liverpool's reserves. England should also learn to play its best eligible players. The Spanish team that won this tournament in 2011 had big names like Javi Martinez, Ander Herrera, Thiago, Koke and Mata in their midfield. 2 years later, they won it again with a midfield of Thiago, Koke, Illaramendi, Isco and Munian. Eligible players like Wilshere, Ox, Sterling and Barkley could have made a huge difference to this team. Sherriff speaks a lot of sense if we read his posts objectively.
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Post by cousindupree on Jun 25, 2015 9:47:08 GMT
I have to say I at the beginning of the tournament I had high hopes the payers available did look decent but boy just about everyone underperformed including Jack. Its a mystery as many of these players perform decently at prem level. However some are clearly overhyped, Ings is all tatts and little else and is unlikely to make an impact at Liverpool. His development is likely to go backwards rather than progress.Its about these young players getting game time and improving so there is hope for the likes of Butland and Kane but if Stones is a future England captain as the media has touted then I am a jellyfish!
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Post by agingerstokie on Jun 25, 2015 9:50:37 GMT
I wouldn't say Jack underperformed, the first goal against Portugal he couldn't really do much about, nor the 1st goal last night and the second goal was a cruel deflection, the third goal you could argue he could have been positioned better but it hit the post after looking like it might go out
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Post by metalhead on Jun 25, 2015 10:36:21 GMT
I was having a discussion at work yesterday about the standard of our U21's (which imo, is low) and I came to the conclusion, my own, admittedly, that if the U21's were in the Premier League, they would be absolutely destroyed and be relegated, even with Jack in goal. Harry Kane aside, there's such a lack of quality there that it's ridiculous.
Whether it's the hunger or whatever, I can't answer, but to be honest, England didn't look much better than a League 2 side last night.
As for Butland, well the first goal was unstoppable and the second was just a poor deflection.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 25, 2015 11:19:56 GMT
It's been the same for years. Yet when tournaments come round England get slated for going out at the quarter final. By any historical measure quarter final is a decent showing for England.
But it's not good enough given the amount of money ploughed into football in England and the size of the population. I read somewhere that even the Women's team are by far the best funded in Women's football.
English football is ROTTEN.
Discount the population factor. If that was a pointer India and China would dominate world football. With Indonesia making progress.
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Post by upthefud on Jun 25, 2015 11:30:34 GMT
The problem with England is every 4-6 years we change our ideas to suit the bright new model that looks like it's going to dominate. It's always "The French do this" "The Germans do this"...
Now I'm sorry but for as wank as we are, England should be one if footballs super powers given then history we have with football and the current PL era being the most popular in the world.
Everyone mocks crunching tackles and high intensity play but it's not been any worse than anything we've produced lately.
So yes, get Shawcross in, get Cattermole in and let's try to play the game our way.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 25, 2015 12:05:02 GMT
Oh, and Stones is 21-years-old and probably not match sharp, with this being his first game. Defensive units are a lot about chemistry. These are logical, mitigating circumstances. If he played for Stoke, they're excuses you may raise. But too many are too consumed with resentment over Shawcross getting overlooked for England and the jealousy has driven you into slaughtering a kid who just had a bad day. Top nations like Spain didn't even qualify for this tournament, but fuvre world stars could still come from the squad. I remember a French team around 2001 that destroyed everyone at the U20 World Cup and that entire team turned out wank. 2 of its top stars in Sinama-Pongol and LeTallec ended up rotting in Liverpool's reserves. England should also learn to play its best eligible players. The Spanish team that won this tournament in 2011 had big names like Javi Martinez, Ander Herrera, Thiago, Koke and Mata in their midfield. 2 years later, they won it again with a midfield of Thiago, Koke, Illaramendi, Isco and Munian. Eligible players like Wilshere, Ox, Sterling and Barkley could have made a huge difference to this team. Sherriff speaks a lot of sense if we read his posts objectively. He does makes sense when spoken objectively however he cannot utilise the excuse that Stones not being "match sharp, with this being his first game" when the same reasoning is what Shawcross got slaughtered for. It is the hypocrisy that perminates when statements come out from the management that "the door is never closed" or the chances are given because they know "what level they can achieve" despite frequent mistakes. That is what grates people. Yes, i am slightly biased as a Stoke fan but only because I can see what is unequal treatment against other performers. for England itself.... pah
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Post by malteser68 on Jun 25, 2015 12:39:00 GMT
Not a great night for our jack is it ? What do you mean? had absolutely no fault in the first goal but on the 2nd and 3rd - whilst not being at fault himself - I feel that he could have done a wee bit better Having said that I like Butland a lot and if Bego had to go I would be much less concerned than if Nzonzi were to leave
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 13:12:01 GMT
had absolutely no fault in the first goal but on the 2nd and 3rd - whilst not being at fault himself - I feel that he could have done a wee bit better Having said that I like Butland a lot and if Bego had to go I would be much less concerned than if Nzonzi were to leave Hes obviously talented but, for me he's nowhere near beggo's quality....I know this result wasn't down to him but, didn't he have similar scorelines when he was on loan? my worry is consistency with the pressure of being number 1 keeper, not his talents im not aiming to slate the lad.......just worried......I'll be happier if we get an old pro on the bench just incase
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Post by thestatusquo on Jun 25, 2015 13:17:21 GMT
They just aren't good enough. I expect the same kind of result in the Euros.
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Post by redandwhitetundra on Jun 25, 2015 13:17:35 GMT
It's been the same for years. Yet when tournaments come round England get slated for going out at the quarter final. By any historical measure quarter final is a decent showing for England.
But it's not good enough given the amount of money ploughed into football in England and the size of the population. I read somewhere that even the Women's team are by far the best funded in Women's football.
English football is ROTTEN.
Women's isn't the best funded worldwide by a long shot. USA and Germany have fully professional teams with decent salaries, including national association paying them to represent them. The FA doesn't pay our women, and it's been known for players to pay to play and their own accommodation. Grassroots funding is what it all comes down to. But it's OK - our FA have just cut grassroot funding.
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Post by staffsvilla on Jun 25, 2015 13:33:46 GMT
Southgate should have demanded the release of players like Shaw, Sterling etc.If he ain't got the bottle to demand the release of certain players, he needs to find another job. Southgate was told by 'woy' he could pick any eligible players and there would not be a problem, southgate himself confirmed this but said he'd chosen bye and large to stick with the squad that had got them to the championships, so only one person to blame southgate !
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 25, 2015 13:40:50 GMT
Women's isn't the best funded worldwide by a long shot. USA and Germany have fully professional teams with decent salaries, including national association paying them to represent them. The FA doesn't pay our women, and it's been known for players to pay to play and their own accommodation. Grassroots funding is what it all comes down to. But it's OK - our FA have just cut grassroot funding.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 13:53:38 GMT
Southgate should have demanded the release of players like Shaw, Sterling etc.If he ain't got the bottle to demand the release of certain players, he needs to find another job. Southgate was told by 'woy' he could pick any eligible players and there would not be a problem, southgate himself confirmed this but said he'd chosen bye and large to stick with the squad that had got them to the championships, so only one person to blame southgate ! no win situation though to be fair if he'd dropped half the players that got him there (very impressively i might add) in favour of "Big name" Premiership stars he'd get slagged off for not trying to bring through the proper youngsters i.e. the ones that hadn't yet made it at first team level in the Prem plus, what kind of message is that sending out to the players that DID get them there? "Cheers for all you've done lads but you can piss off now as we want bigger name stars in now thanks" in what way is that "Developing" the stars of tomorrow? what should be happening is these big name stars should be doing everything they can to play in all U21 internationals instead of suddenly picking up niggling injuries for their club sides the week before an U21 friendly/qualifier so coincidentally ruling them out of those matches.....and then suddenly fully recovering in the build up to a full England team friendly/qualifier in the hope they get a call up for that instead staggering how so many on here constantly slag off England's management for pandering to player's egos then slag off Southgate after this tournament for NOT doing exactly that! being loyal to the players that got us to the tournament in the first place, giving them experience and trying to bring them on is EXACTLY the right thing to do in my opinion.
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Post by stokie1 on Jun 25, 2015 13:58:13 GMT
So, even at U21 level, English players who 'look the part' in their respective club sides, get out to a tournament and look like they've never played football before. Not just 'don't play well' - but look completely out of their depth, with some bits of shockingly bad play. What is it that causes our 'talented footballers' to look shite on the big stage? Gareth Southgate and Roy Hodgson!
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Post by petemac on Jun 25, 2015 14:22:41 GMT
They forgot how to play as a team.
Too many individuals that get paid far too much money and believe they are all superstars.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 25, 2015 16:17:24 GMT
So Stones was shit then.....why doesn't this surprise me?
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Post by redandwhitetundra on Jun 25, 2015 19:49:28 GMT
Women's isn't the best funded worldwide by a long shot. USA and Germany have fully professional teams with decent salaries, including national association paying them to represent them. The FA doesn't pay our women, and it's been known for players to pay to play and their own accommodation. Grassroots funding is what it all comes down to. But it's OK - our FA have just cut grassroot funding. And have a read of this, too. Loads of money in the women's game depending who you listen to m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/33114171
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