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Post by pottermost on Dec 15, 2015 15:03:35 GMT
Bloke with 80,000 posts cant admit he's wrong shocker! Another oatcake agenda! He's actually got 79,956.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2015 16:07:48 GMT
Again, I don't think I'm wrong, why would I admit that I am? I don't get it!
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Post by Davef on Dec 15, 2015 16:22:37 GMT
Again, I don't think I'm wrong, why would I admit that I am? I don't get it! You don't have to admit you're wrong. You are though.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Dec 15, 2015 16:40:09 GMT
Fair play, Bayern, you've stuck to your argument.
I can accept that he may not be world class, but he is a "late developer" who has worked incredibly hard and plays to his strengths. He is in a rare purple patch of form, high on belief and getting into the right place at the right time.
You are also right about the politics of selection for the national team. Rightly or wrongly Hodgson has certain players he trusts. He would be a brave man not to play Rooney. But if Vardy's confidence and form continues, I don't see how he cannot be in the England squad at the end of this season. Confidence, pace and finishing. England could do worse than a dose of that in France.
Perhaps "really shit" is overstating it though, with the benefit of hindsight.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Dec 15, 2015 16:41:44 GMT
As it stands he is playing better and scoring more goals than every other English striker. Hodgson has already shown that he isn't afraid to use him so if he carries on this form until the end of the season he will go,regardless of who is fit or who isn't. You can bang on about better players all you like and you might have a point where some of them are concerned,but form counts for a lot and if Vardy continues to score for fun he would be a far better bet than Sturridge or Wellbeck who have played less football than me in the last 12 months. And that doesn't really matter. If you can't see that you've ignored years of the way the England national team has been selected. Hodgson has been massively reluctant to use him. He's only there because of injury as it is. Form doesn't count for a lot, it counts for something, it's what's put him in the pool but that's it. I know who I'd rather come on if it was between them 3 and Vardy is third choice. I think Roy would feel the same especially with Welbeck. He trusts Welbeck implicitly. I don't think he trusts Sturridge mind which is fair based on his England performances. Much truth there but isn't that exactly why we've seen so many England players getting scores of caps whilst playing a handful of GOOD games. Managers DO tend to go with the players they trust and the reasons are understandable (to a degree) but this bloke came into the job promising to pick players that were "playing for their clubs" and "in form". I think he's often ignored that promise as most England managers have in the past when it comes to crunch games and major tournaments where they tend to go for the 'obvious' experience. John Barnes was an outstanding footballer but you could count his 'good' performances for England on the fingers of a mitten. It isn't difficult to argue that England would have done better with a 'lesser' winger that regularly turned in 7/10 performances. Gerrard and Lampard never really worked for England, although both were worthy international players. Again, I could argue that 'lesser' players (who could actually play well together) would have been a better option. At this moment (and that's how it should be judged) Vardy deserves the chance to prove that he CAN do what you're assuming he can't. It really is THAT simple. None of the England front men have been THAT good that you could ignore Vardy's current claims.
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Post by adi on Dec 15, 2015 16:48:16 GMT
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Post by adi on Dec 15, 2015 16:48:46 GMT
He's not really shit. Average With good attitude and he's quick. Expecting better this summer. He is. He should be nowhere near the Premier League nevermind England. He can run quick and around a lot. That's about it. For me that's really shit and not what I want to see on a football pitch. Lol
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Dec 15, 2015 16:53:57 GMT
Indeed, Doz, and countless managers have tried to cram in the "names" at the expense of the team.
Sven had a decent chance of winning Euro 2004, but we had Scholes out of position to accommodate other players. Why not play Scholes ( a world class talent ) in his best attacking midfield role, even if it means leaving Lampard on the bench. We needed a natural wide left player - at the time Alan Thompson was playing well at Celtic, but his face didn't fit. He would have added balance and great set piece delivery.
As it was, Portugal bring Rui Costa off the bench in extra time who scores a superb indvidual goal - as Sven turns to Darius Vassell. If we could have brought a fresh Lampard on then, things might have worked out differently.
Tournament football is about more than your best 11 players.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2015 19:01:16 GMT
And that doesn't really matter. If you can't see that you've ignored years of the way the England national team has been selected. Hodgson has been massively reluctant to use him. He's only there because of injury as it is. Form doesn't count for a lot, it counts for something, it's what's put him in the pool but that's it. I know who I'd rather come on if it was between them 3 and Vardy is third choice. I think Roy would feel the same especially with Welbeck. He trusts Welbeck implicitly. I don't think he trusts Sturridge mind which is fair based on his England performances. Much truth there but isn't that exactly why we've seen so many England players getting scores of caps whilst playing a handful of GOOD games. Managers DO tend to go with the players they trust and the reasons are understandable (to a degree) but this bloke came into the job promising to pick players that were "playing for their clubs" and "in form". I think he's often ignored that promise as most England managers have in the past when it comes to crunch games and major tournaments where they tend to go for the 'obvious' experience. John Barnes was an outstanding footballer but you could count his 'good' performances for England on the fingers of a mitten. It isn't difficult to argue that England would have done better with a 'lesser' winger that regularly turned in 7/10 performances. Gerrard and Lampard never really worked for England, although both were worthy international players. Again, I could argue that 'lesser' players (who could actually play well together) would have been a better option. At this moment (and that's how it should be judged) Vardy deserves the chance to prove that he CAN do what you're assuming he can't. It really is THAT simple. None of the England front men have been THAT good that you could ignore Vardy's current claims. It is but that's life. You can't pick every Tom, Dick and Harry on good form. What Woy promised is pretty null and void now with how he's actually been. And to an extent I completely agree with it. I don't think we'd better if he had and tbh who is there that should be picked but isn't? Barring Shawcross but Woy clearly (imo) doesn't rate him. Which is fair enough, I think he's completely bonkers as I think Ryan is the best English centre back in the game currently but if that's what he thinks then fair dos. Gerrard and Lampard (both scored 20 goals from midfield for England didn't they?) "didn't work" due to the shortcomings of successive manager who favoured the former to be the talisman when it should have been the latter. It shouldn't though, you can't pick international sides on form, it just doesn't and shouldn't work like that! Vardy's form gives him the chance but the other strikers are better players and if fit will go ahead of him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 19:28:16 GMT
1 season wonder.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Dec 16, 2015 15:16:59 GMT
Much truth there but isn't that exactly why we've seen so many England players getting scores of caps whilst playing a handful of GOOD games. Managers DO tend to go with the players they trust and the reasons are understandable (to a degree) but this bloke came into the job promising to pick players that were "playing for their clubs" and "in form". I think he's often ignored that promise as most England managers have in the past when it comes to crunch games and major tournaments where they tend to go for the 'obvious' experience. John Barnes was an outstanding footballer but you could count his 'good' performances for England on the fingers of a mitten. It isn't difficult to argue that England would have done better with a 'lesser' winger that regularly turned in 7/10 performances. Gerrard and Lampard never really worked for England, although both were worthy international players. Again, I could argue that 'lesser' players (who could actually play well together) would have been a better option. At this moment (and that's how it should be judged) Vardy deserves the chance to prove that he CAN do what you're assuming he can't. It really is THAT simple. None of the England front men have been THAT good that you could ignore Vardy's current claims. It is but that's life. You can't pick every Tom, Dick and Harry on good form. What Woy promised is pretty null and void now with how he's actually been. And to an extent I completely agree with it. I don't think we'd better if he had and tbh who is there that should be picked but isn't? Barring Shawcross but Woy clearly (imo) doesn't rate him. Which is fair enough, I think he's completely bonkers as I think Ryan is the best English centre back in the game currently but if that's what he thinks then fair dos. Gerrard and Lampard (both scored 20 goals from midfield for England didn't they?) "didn't work" due to the shortcomings of successive manager who favoured the former to be the talisman when it should have been the latter. It shouldn't though, you can't pick international sides on form, it just doesn't and shouldn't work like that! Vardy's form gives him the chance but the other strikers are better players and if fit will go ahead of him. Yes Lampard and Gerrard did both score well for England bayern and I made the point that both were worthy England Internationals. However, it DIDN'T work well with the two of them playing together in terms of the overall team success since neither of them had a defensive 'bent' and they tripped over each other far too much as a result. Both good players but only ONE of them should have played regularly in the England team given their similarities. England have a very long history, not just Roy, of giving 30/40/50/60 caps to players that (good players though they may have been) produced no more than a handful of good performances amongst their huge haul of caps. We're struggling for strikers at the moment because of injuries and Vardy's claims are impossible to ignore. As for him being a poor footballer..................He's quick, never gives up on anything, has an excellent first touch and is a sharp finisher (he's scoring very few 'tap ins' and the quality of his anticipation and finishing is second to none right now). Other than simply a personal opinion, I think you'd have massive problems justifying your view on an evidential basis. I wouldn't argue with your comment about players that MIGHT be better footballers than him (although that is clearly simply personal opinion) but I'd have to return to players like Barnes who was comfortably the best player to pick in his day, but produced next-to-never for England. He's one of many. As for "who should be getting selected that isn't" I didn't put forward that argument for anyone other than making the case for Vardy and his claims, at the moment, are blindingly obvious. It would be very difficult to ignore those claims right now with two of our more obvious choices injured or struggling to recover from injury. If he's picked and he is a success, then I'm sure he would be going regardless of how much better the injured players MIGHT be. And rightly so.
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Post by rainfordpotter on Dec 16, 2015 15:29:41 GMT
Great player
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 16, 2015 15:31:19 GMT
Possibly, but what a season he's having!
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Post by 2004 on Dec 16, 2015 19:56:55 GMT
For all of you getting smug about page 1 at the time we were right. £15m for a 28 year old striker with 4 goals and 1 PL season under his belt suggested he wasn't really that good. He won't start a single game at the Euros. "Fucking hell, he really is shite." Say no more Some of our fans struggle to spot good managers as well.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 16, 2015 20:06:07 GMT
Again, I don't think I'm wrong, why would I admit that I am? I don't get it! It's more fun when you don't admit it!
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 16, 2015 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by eastyorksexile on Dec 16, 2015 20:09:47 GMT
And an English one season wonder, how refreshing from the money grabbing imports
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Post by britsabroad on Dec 17, 2015 5:35:19 GMT
Closest thing to a Sunday League player there is in the Prem. Made me chuckle this Yep I'll bet you are glad you never bought him Sure am. We'll see how many he scores next season. Hes quick, runs around a lot and is a reasonable finisher. Thats about it. A team playing out of their skins doesnt mean theyre individually brilliant. Id take Mahrez and that's all.
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Post by thehoof on Dec 17, 2015 13:03:34 GMT
"Fucking hell, he really is shite." Say no more Some of our fans struggle to spot good managers as well.
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Post by thehoof on Dec 17, 2015 13:07:29 GMT
Stoke 2004, Yes, you are quite right - before Hughes came, I did think the two worst managers in the league were Welsh, and I was proved wrong. You have been proved wrong now, but seem to be incapable of accepting it.
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Post by Stokiedokie on Dec 17, 2015 14:33:24 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2015 20:22:50 GMT
It is but that's life. You can't pick every Tom, Dick and Harry on good form. What Woy promised is pretty null and void now with how he's actually been. And to an extent I completely agree with it. I don't think we'd better if he had and tbh who is there that should be picked but isn't? Barring Shawcross but Woy clearly (imo) doesn't rate him. Which is fair enough, I think he's completely bonkers as I think Ryan is the best English centre back in the game currently but if that's what he thinks then fair dos. Gerrard and Lampard (both scored 20 goals from midfield for England didn't they?) "didn't work" due to the shortcomings of successive manager who favoured the former to be the talisman when it should have been the latter. It shouldn't though, you can't pick international sides on form, it just doesn't and shouldn't work like that! Vardy's form gives him the chance but the other strikers are better players and if fit will go ahead of him. Yes Lampard and Gerrard did both score well for England bayern and I made the point that both were worthy England Internationals. However, it DIDN'T work well with the two of them playing together in terms of the overall team success since neither of them had a defensive 'bent' and they tripped over each other far too much as a result. Both good players but only ONE of them should have played regularly in the England team given their similarities. England have a very long history, not just Roy, of giving 30/40/50/60 caps to players that (good players though they may have been) produced no more than a handful of good performances amongst their huge haul of caps. We're struggling for strikers at the moment because of injuries and Vardy's claims are impossible to ignore. As for him being a poor footballer..................He's quick, never gives up on anything, has an excellent first touch and is a sharp finisher (he's scoring very few 'tap ins' and the quality of his anticipation and finishing is second to none right now). Other than simply a personal opinion, I think you'd have massive problems justifying your view on an evidential basis. I wouldn't argue with your comment about players that MIGHT be better footballers than him (although that is clearly simply personal opinion) but I'd have to return to players like Barnes who was comfortably the best player to pick in his day, but produced next-to-never for England. He's one of many. As for "who should be getting selected that isn't" I didn't put forward that argument for anyone other than making the case for Vardy and his claims, at the moment, are blindingly obvious. It would be very difficult to ignore those claims right now with two of our more obvious choices injured or struggling to recover from injury. If he's picked and he is a success, then I'm sure he would be going regardless of how much better the injured players MIGHT be. And rightly so. I don't think that's strictly true though. I just think the manager's we had fucked it up. It is because of injuries and if they're back I just can't see Vardy getting in ahead of them if they're all fit. They won't be ignored, it's giving him a shot. But the players I've mentioned barring Sturridge have done well for England. That's the issue he's got.
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Post by upthefud on Dec 18, 2015 3:54:20 GMT
Yes Lampard and Gerrard did both score well for England bayern and I made the point that both were worthy England Internationals. However, it DIDN'T work well with the two of them playing together in terms of the overall team success since neither of them had a defensive 'bent' and they tripped over each other far too much as a result. Both good players but only ONE of them should have played regularly in the England team given their similarities. England have a very long history, not just Roy, of giving 30/40/50/60 caps to players that (good players though they may have been) produced no more than a handful of good performances amongst their huge haul of caps. We're struggling for strikers at the moment because of injuries and Vardy's claims are impossible to ignore. As for him being a poor footballer..................He's quick, never gives up on anything, has an excellent first touch and is a sharp finisher (he's scoring very few 'tap ins' and the quality of his anticipation and finishing is second to none right now). Other than simply a personal opinion, I think you'd have massive problems justifying your view on an evidential basis. I wouldn't argue with your comment about players that MIGHT be better footballers than him (although that is clearly simply personal opinion) but I'd have to return to players like Barnes who was comfortably the best player to pick in his day, but produced next-to-never for England. He's one of many. As for "who should be getting selected that isn't" I didn't put forward that argument for anyone other than making the case for Vardy and his claims, at the moment, are blindingly obvious. It would be very difficult to ignore those claims right now with two of our more obvious choices injured or struggling to recover from injury. If he's picked and he is a success, then I'm sure he would be going regardless of how much better the injured players MIGHT be. And rightly so. I don't think that's strictly true though. I just think the manager's we had fucked it up. It is because of injuries and if they're back I just can't see Vardy getting in ahead of them if they're all fit. They won't be ignored, it's giving him a shot. But the players I've mentioned barring Sturridge have done well for England. That's the issue he's got. It'll be criminal miss management if Sturridge, Rooney or Welbeck get on the plane ahead of Vardy. Are Leicester City top by accident? Or does it have something (just something) to do with the leagues top scorer? Please remind me how Wazza is doing this season.
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Post by whydelilah on Feb 3, 2016 9:29:54 GMT
Absolutely.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 9:42:18 GMT
Just think where we could be if we had a really shit striker like Vardy playing for us.
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 3, 2016 9:43:29 GMT
Really, really shit.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 3, 2016 9:46:54 GMT
With all the money Stoke have, why cant we find a forward who can get us 15+ goals a season? For yonks now, under Pulis and MH, we have had strikers who will only score about 10/12 goals a season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 3, 2016 9:48:32 GMT
Absolutely. Oh Tom if we're playing this game I could bang on about us this season and how (as per) most are catching up with re Hughes' deficiencies this season. But I won't go there. Good goal last night, it took the Stoke charity to grease his wheels again.
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Post by march4 on Feb 3, 2016 10:34:40 GMT
Have I seen reports that Vardy is looking for a new contract worth £60,000 a week. I'm sure Leicester will settle that quickly.
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Post by starkiller on Feb 3, 2016 10:40:56 GMT
We should be scouring the lower leagues for a goalscorer.
Always worth a go - nothing to lose.
Certainly a lot less to lose than the possible millions on potential flops.
Big league teams used to pillage our assets.
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