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Post by mumf on Mar 18, 2016 14:13:30 GMT
Did you watch it BJ ? I did and was pleasantly impressed by the UKIP representative after my comments about the party being a "one trick pony " . A bit harsh on reflection but it also shows how good a speaker Farage is . I thought the Tory minister got absolutely slaughtered ....I thought the SNP woman was a bit feisty and rough around the edges and the Labour woman was pretty decent to be fair .
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 18, 2016 14:36:32 GMT
Did you watch it BJ ? I did and was pleasantly impressed by the UKIP representative after my comments about the party being a "one trick pony " . A bit harsh on reflection but it also shows how good a speaker Farage is . I thought the Tory minister got absolutely slaughtered ....I thought the SNP woman was a bit feisty and rough around the edges and the Labour woman was pretty decent to be fair . The woman from the SNP was pretty bloody scary wasn't she?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 18, 2016 14:48:39 GMT
Did you watch it BJ ? I did and was pleasantly impressed by the UKIP representative after my comments about the party being a "one trick pony " . A bit harsh on reflection but it also shows how good a speaker Farage is . I thought the Tory minister got absolutely slaughtered ....I thought the SNP woman was a bit feisty and rough around the edges and the Labour woman was pretty decent to be fair . I did Ric, I actually thought that Emily came over very well, I don't know if you remember the White Van Man incident but I just think it showed the disconnect between some of the Labour party and those that they represent. Admittedly thus is a hard one to overcome as talented people with a conscience are needed to fight for the Working class, once they become successful /wealthy, they could loose their roots. Mark Littleworth was also very good Actually I was not over impressed by Roger Helmer! but there you go!I dd not think that he knew when NOT to refer to the EU issue, but I guess that is understandable I do believe that Farage is a good speaker, simply because he believes in what he says passionately, and does not worry if others (in the party) have slightly different views. UKIP'S policy on the Health service and HS2 are ,in my opinion the best I have seen.
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Post by mumf on Mar 18, 2016 15:18:43 GMT
Did you watch it BJ ? I did and was pleasantly impressed by the UKIP representative after my comments about the party being a "one trick pony " . A bit harsh on reflection but it also shows how good a speaker Farage is . I thought the Tory minister got absolutely slaughtered ....I thought the SNP woman was a bit feisty and rough around the edges and the Labour woman was pretty decent to be fair . I did Ric, I actually thought that Emily came over very well, I don't know if you remember the White Van Man incident but I just think it showed the disconnect between some of the Labour party and those that they represent. Admittedly thus is a hard one to overcome as talented people with a conscience are needed to fight for the Working class, once they become successful /wealthy, they could loose their roots. Mark Littleworth was also very good Actually I was not over impressed by Roger Helmer! but there you go!I dd not think that he knew when NOT to refer to the EU issue, but I guess that is understandable I do believe that Farage is a good speaker, simply because he believes in what he says passionately, and does not worry if others (in the party) have slightly different views. UKIP'S policy on the Health service and HS2 are ,in my opinion the best I have seen. Well ...I think that HS2 is a clear example of politicians steam rollering unnecessary plans through that the vast majority of the general public don't agree with or find the need for . It's a complete waste of money in my opinion . They could and should have invested in the existing rail network . It's nothing short of a great white elephant . I thought Helmer seemed a decent enough guy and wasn't necessarily analysing his each and every word , but more so his overall persona. I think he's far more pleasing on the eye than the young tall abrasive scouser with the bald head who we often see representing UKIP ....is he the deputy to Farage ? Anyway ....it's obvious that the Tory plans on disability benefits haven't gone down well at all and rightly so ....but no matter how unpopular they are the point that I would like to make is that I still can't see the wider general public getting behind the current shadow cabinet no matter how much they protest . I've witnessed the mindset of his followers on here and their attitude and tactics is simply to go on the attack in an attempt to win the current battle or issue ....rather than the "War " (next general election ) in its entirety . Politics is a numbers game . If you haven't got the numbers then you haven't got a chance . It's also about Corbyns image and those on the shadow Cabinet . On both counts once again the party scores very badly .... There will have to be a challenge made very soon and I expect that to come just after the referendum results . There's nothing to be gained by having one before then . I hope so because not just the party , but the country as a whole deserves better than what we currently see. It's beyond bad ....Its shit .
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Moosehead
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Post by Moosehead on Mar 18, 2016 21:07:56 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget.
Labour are pretty stable in comparison!
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Post by mumf on Mar 18, 2016 21:10:28 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget. Labour are pretty stable in comparison! Stable in the sense that you cant get any lower .
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Mar 18, 2016 21:28:55 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget. Labour are pretty stable in comparison! I don't see a crisis at all. Dave said he was not going to seek a third term as PM. If we stay in the EU, we get George, if we leave, we get Boris.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 23:05:46 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget. Labour are pretty stable in comparison! Where is the crisis ?
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 18, 2016 23:34:11 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget. Labour are pretty stable in comparison! I don't see a crisis at all. Dave said he was not going to seek a third term as PM. If we stay in the EU, we get George, if we leave, we get Boris. Bloody 'ell. So if we vote in we get Osborne? And then a choice at the General Election between Osborne and Corbyn? Christ on a bike what a poor choice that is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 23:40:21 GMT
I don't see a crisis at all. Dave said he was not going to seek a third term as PM. If we stay in the EU, we get George, if we leave, we get Boris. Bloody 'ell. So if we vote in we get Osborne? And then a choice at the General Election between Osborne and Corbyn? Christ on a bike what a poor choice that is. Osborne is pretty weak .....but in all honesty would you prefer the alternative ?
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 19, 2016 0:45:10 GMT
Bloody 'ell. So if we vote in we get Osborne? And then a choice at the General Election between Osborne and Corbyn? Christ on a bike what a poor choice that is. Osborne is pretty weak .....but in all honesty would you prefer the alternative ? I think I would despise both options - as I suspect many would. I think they're both idealist crusaders - and that's bloody dangerous. People who will make decisions solely based on their ideals - and sod the consequences or the harm to actual people. I think Osbourne is up there with George Galloway to be my most disliked MP.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 0:49:20 GMT
Osborne is pretty weak .....but in all honesty would you prefer the alternative ? I think I would despise both options - as I suspect many would. I think they're both idealist crusaders - and that's bloody dangerous. People who will make decisions solely based on their ideals - and sod the consequences or the harm to actual people. I think Osbourne is up there with George Galloway to be my most disliked MP. Well it's all about opinions of course ....I'm not keen on Osbourne but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Galloway ...just my opinion
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 19, 2016 7:46:38 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget. Labour are pretty stable in comparison! I don't see a crisis at all. Dave said he was not going to seek a third term as PM. If we stay in the EU, we get George, if we leave, we get Boris. You're missing how clever Boris has been - Boris is the next Tory leader whether it's in or out. Why - because he can expect to pick up 100% of the Tory No voters while Osbourne certainly won't get the same from the Yes Tories. (Osbourne's successive budget cock ups alienate yes and no backbenchers). Boris probably only needs 10% of the yes folk to win - he'll likely get between 30 and 50% to make his election as next Tory leader a landslide. Ask yourself the question; did these calculations form part of his thinking that long weekend he spent deliberating which side to stand on in the coming referendum? To which the traditional response, I understand is, is the pope a catholic?
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Moosehead
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Post by Moosehead on Mar 19, 2016 9:17:37 GMT
Seems like the Tories have a leadership crisis at the minute. All over the place with the EU vote, and now IDS quits over the budget. Labour are pretty stable in comparison! Where is the crisis ? Losing Gove on the European campaign. Losing IDS on disability reform. Doesn't sound like a party that is being unified by its leader right now.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 19, 2016 9:26:20 GMT
Losing Gove on the European campaign. Losing IDS on disability reform. Doesn't sound like a party that is being unified by its leader right now. Hardly a crisis. It's a second term government doing for the most a half decent job. A lot of political manoeuvring over the EU and future leadership. I wouldn't ever expect complete unity. The difference with labour is they are blindly being forced to follow and support Corbyn knowing full well he is unelectable. If and a big if we leave the EU can you really see a Labour Party or even a corbyn led Labour Party guiding us through the transition.
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Post by mumf on Mar 19, 2016 9:33:06 GMT
The party will not survive another 12 months with Corbyn in charge .
That said , you should not underestimate the depth of outrage at this latest attack on the vulnerable in our society by Osbourne. . It was deliberate , desperate and outrageous .
The Tories are also falling apart .
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Moosehead
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Post by Moosehead on Mar 19, 2016 9:49:42 GMT
Losing Gove on the European campaign. Losing IDS on disability reform. Doesn't sound like a party that is being unified by its leader right now. Hardly a crisis. It's a second term government doing for the most a half decent job. A lot of political manoeuvring over the EU and future leadership. I wouldn't ever expect complete unity. The difference with labour is they are blindly being forced to follow and support Corbyn knowing full well he is unelectable. If and a big if we leave the EU can you really see a Labour Party or even a corbyn led Labour Party guiding us through the transition. My initial point is that if this was happening in the Labour party right now, there would be a field day about how wank Corbyn is. I don't think he is good enough for the front bench, let alone leadership, however, I think he has been given far too hard a ride by the media. I could amend your first sentence and apply it to Labour: Hardly a crisis. It's a second term government doing for the most a half decent job new opposition finding its feet. A lot of political manoeuvring over the EU trident and future new leadership. I wouldn't ever expect complete unity. I guess whilst Labour are being whipped to follow a (likely) unelectable leader, the Tories are able to go rogue from their leader, who they know won't be elected again. It looks messy at the minute, no clear direction on Europe, on PIP (Cameron 'puzzled and disappointed' at IDS's decision to quit). I'd expect back conch grumbling over the budget, but not walk-outs like this. Your last question - I don't think it will make much difference whether Labour or Conservative party are in charge for a transition, we'll get through it. They'd each make mistakes, just slightly different ones. I think Labour without Corbyn would make more mistakes, and I'd rather he wasn't in charge for it!!
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Moosehead
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Post by Moosehead on Mar 19, 2016 9:52:39 GMT
The party will not survive another 12 months with Corbyn in charge . A month or so after Corbyn was elected I did read something (probably leaked from an aide, I forget) saying that Corbyn is in there to 'take the venom' from the first year or two, he'd then step down and Labour would have a 'proper' leader come in for a decent run at the election.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Mar 19, 2016 9:53:16 GMT
I don't see a crisis at all. Dave said he was not going to seek a third term as PM. If we stay in the EU, we get George, if we leave, we get Boris. You're missing how clever Boris has been - Boris is the next Tory leader whether it's in or out. Why - because he can expect to pick up 100% of the Tory No voters while Osbourne certainly won't get the same from the Yes Tories. (Osbourne's successive budget cock ups alienate yes and no backbenchers). Boris probably only needs 10% of the yes folk to win - he'll likely get between 30 and 50% to make his election as next Tory leader a landslide. Ask yourself the question; did these calculations form part of his thinking that long weekend he spent deliberating which side to stand on in the coming referendum? To which the traditional response, I understand is, is the pope a catholic? You may well be correct, and I was over simplifying things. An "in" vote could also open the door to Teresa May as the compromise/unifying candidate.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Mar 19, 2016 9:55:30 GMT
The party will not survive another 12 months with Corbyn in charge . A month or so after Corbyn was elected I did read something (probably leaked from an aide, I forget) saying that Corbyn is in there to 'take the venom' from the first year or two, he'd then step down and Labour would have a 'proper' leader come in for a decent run at the election. That sounds like Corbyn, would take one for the team. I don't buy it. What you've suggested, will probably happen, but I don't see Corbyn as being part of grand scheme.
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Moosehead
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Post by Moosehead on Mar 19, 2016 10:02:01 GMT
A month or so after Corbyn was elected I did read something (probably leaked from an aide, I forget) saying that Corbyn is in there to 'take the venom' from the first year or two, he'd then step down and Labour would have a 'proper' leader come in for a decent run at the election. That sounds like Corbyn, would take one for the team. I don't buy it. What you've suggested, will probably happen, but I don't see Corbyn as being part of grand scheme. I agree. I'd like to read the article again, but Corbyn strikes me as someone who wants to be there long term.
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 19, 2016 10:33:13 GMT
That sounds like Corbyn, would take one for the team. I don't buy it. What you've suggested, will probably happen, but I don't see Corbyn as being part of grand scheme. I agree. I'd like to read the article again, but Corbyn strikes me as someone who wants to be there long term. You're right - Corbyn intends to be there at least to the next election. And he has the backing of the Labour Party membership. The problem, of course, is whether he gets sufficient backing from the wider electorate. And there's no signs of that happening. As regards the Tories, Cameron has been quite smart. He knows Europe is a problem for his party so he's delivered the referendum as early in this parliamentary term as he can so whatever party shitstorms arise will be in the distant past come election time (he hopes - and, IMO, is largely correct). Of course he is quitting before the election so there is another potentially damaging divisive issue to be settled - his successor. And that is setting itself up, by accident more than design, to be quite straightforward in that Osbourne has shot himself in the foot (again) while his main opponent has shown himself to be quite light on his feet! The Tories, being the power crazed whores that they are (power before principle), will have seen, and learned, from the succession disaster Labour had when an unpopular chancellor was chosen as the new leader. Of course, Corbyn is firmly in the principle before power camp, which is fine if you're content with being the opposition.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 19, 2016 10:33:52 GMT
Labour are happy to sit back & watch the Torys tear themselves apart over Europe. It's all falling apart, Gloriously. Pass the popcorn
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 10:54:02 GMT
Losing Gove on the European campaign. Losing IDS on disability reform. Doesn't sound like a party that is being unified by its leader right now. Once it was decided that they would be able to campaign for either in or out as their preference , differences were bound to rear their head......it is not really a crisis as compared to the pantomime act that is masquerading as a shadow cabinet .
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