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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 16:52:29 GMT
Sorry pal - but that ain't an answer to my question. Maybe this a topic for a separate thread. Forget taxation and wealth distribution for a moment - they are important topics though. What do you do about wealth creation - creating the money to pay for all the stuff you want to do. I disagree, the money is there already it's just not distributed fairly. How does making things more equal for people not help to solve the things I've listed? Sorry - that is so unsatisfactory. And explains why left wing politics fails time after time. Not a clue about how to grow the economy. Just expect to live of other people's money. Btw - I don't buy your premis that equality is wrong per se. I thought what is wrong is poverty. But that isn't the point I was raising. I was curious if you had any idea about how to make money. And, it seems you haven't.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 17:06:26 GMT
Haven't I already explained that? Putting an end to mass immigration will have a much bigger impact on the issues of housing and low pay than any other policy - because you're starting to reduce the demand. I'm certainly not knocking what you're saying because it's a valid argument that can't be dismissed, but having better controls on immigration doesn't solve the problem, it only alleviates it and only slightly. I disagree with you about the impact immigrants have on low pay though, I'm not saying it doesn't have an impact in certain areas but I think you're overstating the impact quite significantly. I think that's more to do with our economy and inequality that is so prevalent within our society. Just even from personal experience for every low wage job I've had where I can guarantee you that it wasn't because unskilled migrant workers were causing the wage to be lowered. You don't think the 3 million additional people that have arrived here in the last 15 years has had an affect on pay? Supply and demand is the biggest driver for prices/pay in a free market. It's having a huge affect. Don't try and kid yourself.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 17:08:18 GMT
I disagree, the money is there already it's just not distributed fairly. How does making things more equal for people not help to solve the things I've listed? Sorry - that is so unsatisfactory. And explains why left wing politics fails time after time. Not a clue about how to grow the economy. Just expect to live of other people's money. Btw - I don't buy your premis that equality is wrong per se. I thought what is wrong is poverty. But that isn't the point I was raising. I was curious if you had any idea about how to make money. And, it seems you haven't. If Ed Balls gets his way there will be no one left in this country to create any wealth worth speaking of to pay for their policies .....they will have all left .....guess they will have to rob Peter to pay Paul as usual.....another empty treasury in five years beckons !
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Post by stokeharry on May 6, 2015 17:08:44 GMT
I'd actually like to challenge you to tell me what UKIP are going to do to solve the problems I've mentioned. It seems to me like only Labour and the Greens are even remotely interested in trying to challenge inequality. Which is in my opinion the single biggest thing that needs to be addressed not just in our society but worldwide. Haven't I already explained that? Putting an end to mass immigration will have a much bigger impact on the issues of housing and low pay than any other policy - because you're starting to reduce the demand. Correct. Mass immigration is a problem that needs to be addressed.
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 17:53:13 GMT
I disagree, the money is there already it's just not distributed fairly. How does making things more equal for people not help to solve the things I've listed? Sorry - that is so unsatisfactory. And explains why left wing politics fails time after time. Not a clue about how to grow the economy. Just expect to live of other people's money. Btw - I don't buy your premis that equality is wrong per se. I thought what is wrong is poverty. But that isn't the point I was raising. I was curious if you had any idea about how to make money. And, it seems you haven't. I respect your opinion but I don't see it as living off other people's money at all. A huge amount of wealth is generated it's just mostly siphoned off by greedy people at the top with the scraps left to trickle down to the rest of us. It's a grossly unfair system. I say we need a better way of distributing the wealth, the top 1% that own more than half of the rest of the world put together haven't truly 'earned' their money just because they were smarter or were prepared to work harder than anyone else. The 'social ladder' that capitalism is supposed to offer is nothing more than a myth for the vast majority of people in this world. Only a very select view escape poverty. It's provable that the majority of people who are rich were born into wealth/privilege just as its also provable that if you're born into poverty you're almost certainly going to remain in poverty.
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 18:29:42 GMT
Sorry - that is so unsatisfactory. And explains why left wing politics fails time after time. Not a clue about how to grow the economy. Just expect to live of other people's money. Btw - I don't buy your premis that equality is wrong per se. I thought what is wrong is poverty. But that isn't the point I was raising. I was curious if you had any idea about how to make money. And, it seems you haven't. I respect your opinion but I don't see it as living off other people's money at all. A huge amount of wealth is generated it's just mostly siphoned off by greedy people at the top with the scraps left to trickle down to the rest of us. It's a grossly unfair system. I say we need a better way of distributing the wealth, the top 1% that own more than half of the rest of the world put together haven't truly 'earned' their money just because they were smarter or were prepared to work harder than anyone else. The 'social ladder' that capitalism is supposed to offer is nothing more than a myth for the vast majority of people in this world. Only a very select view escape poverty. It's provable that the majority of people who are rich were born into wealth/privilege just as its also provable that if you're born into poverty you're almost certainly going to remain in poverty. Yes - lots of issues. And it's true that much more needs to be done to help people escape poverty - although the nature of poverty is of course something of a moving feast (pardon the expression) depending where you live in the world. But - wealth redistribution aside - a country needs a thriving economy to thrive. Otherwise the equality you seek becomes a race to the bottom. And - again you have nothing to say about how to grow the economy. Sorry to say, but if you were in power despite your best intentions everyone would end up worse off. What was it Clinton (correctly said); it's the economy stupid!
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 18:37:22 GMT
I respect your opinion but I don't see it as living off other people's money at all. A huge amount of wealth is generated it's just mostly siphoned off by greedy people at the top with the scraps left to trickle down to the rest of us. It's a grossly unfair system. I say we need a better way of distributing the wealth, the top 1% that own more than half of the rest of the world put together haven't truly 'earned' their money just because they were smarter or were prepared to work harder than anyone else. The 'social ladder' that capitalism is supposed to offer is nothing more than a myth for the vast majority of people in this world. Only a very select view escape poverty. It's provable that the majority of people who are rich were born into wealth/privilege just as its also provable that if you're born into poverty you're almost certainly going to remain in poverty. Yes - lots of issues. And it's true that much more needs to be done to help people escape poverty - although the nature of poverty is of course something of a moving feast (pardon the expression) depending where you live in the world. But - wealth redistribution aside - a country needs a thriving economy to thrive. Otherwise the equality you seek becomes a race to the bottom. And - again you have nothing to say about how to grow the economy. Sorry to say, but if you were in power despite your best intentions everyone would end up worse off. What was it Clinton (correctly said); it's the economy stupid! I get what you're saying, my understanding of the economy is lacking somewhat although I'm always eager to learn new things so maybe I'll look into it. Out of interest what's your view on how to improve the economy?
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 18:49:11 GMT
Yes - lots of issues. And it's true that much more needs to be done to help people escape poverty - although the nature of poverty is of course something of a moving feast (pardon the expression) depending where you live in the world. But - wealth redistribution aside - a country needs a thriving economy to thrive. Otherwise the equality you seek becomes a race to the bottom. And - again you have nothing to say about how to grow the economy. Sorry to say, but if you were in power despite your best intentions everyone would end up worse off. What was it Clinton (correctly said); it's the economy stupid! I get what you're saying, my understanding of the economy is lacking somewhat although I'm always eager to learn new things so maybe I'll look into it. Out of interest what's your view on how to improve the economy? The following from the Tories are good... Cutting the jobs tax - saving businesses up to £2,000 and enabling them to provide more jobs for hardworking people Scrapping the jobs tax altogether for under 21s - so it's easier for businesses to give young people a start in life Investing in better infrastructure, including roads, rail and broadband - so it's easier to reach customers Cutting corporation tax - helping companies invest and grow Getting rid of unnecessary red tape - freeing up businesses to concentrate on expansion Only thing is - the Tory cupboard of good ideas is rather empty after you take their economic policies out. No party has all the answers!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 18:54:21 GMT
Basically the Tories plan to boost the economy revolve around creation of more jobs.
Unfortunately Zero hours contract jobs only create wealth for those who are paying the wages . That's why the Chancellor is not getting the big boost in tax revenue which the Tories were expecting given the amount of new jobs created . It also has another knock on effect , where many low paid workers are still entitled to benefits as their families still fall well short of the poverty line threshold .
It's a economy based on service type industries and low pay .
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 19:15:28 GMT
I get what you're saying, my understanding of the economy is lacking somewhat although I'm always eager to learn new things so maybe I'll look into it. Out of interest what's your view on how to improve the economy? The following from the Tories are good... Cutting the jobs tax - saving businesses up to £2,000 and enabling them to provide more jobs for hardworking people Scrapping the jobs tax altogether for under 21s - so it's easier for businesses to give young people a start in life Investing in better infrastructure, including roads, rail and broadband - so it's easier to reach customers Cutting corporation tax - helping companies invest and grow Getting rid of unnecessary red tape - freeing up businesses to concentrate on expansion Only thing is - the Tory cupboard of good ideas is rather empty after you take their economic policies out. No party has all the answers! It sometimes seems a bit mad that we can't just pull the best ideas from the parties together and implement them. I couldn't vote Tory because I find their views on things other than the economy appalling.
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 19:16:19 GMT
Basically the Tories plan to boost the economy revolve around creation of more jobs. Unfortunately Zero hours contract jobs only create wealth for those who are paying the wages . That's why the Chancellor is not getting the big boost in tax revenue which the Tories were expecting given the amount of new jobs created . It also has another knock on effect , where many low paid workers are still entitled to benefits as their families still fall well short of the poverty line threshold . It's a economy based on service type industries and low pay . You've got it right on zero hours contracts.
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 20:09:09 GMT
The following from the Tories are good... Cutting the jobs tax - saving businesses up to £2,000 and enabling them to provide more jobs for hardworking people Scrapping the jobs tax altogether for under 21s - so it's easier for businesses to give young people a start in life Investing in better infrastructure, including roads, rail and broadband - so it's easier to reach customers Cutting corporation tax - helping companies invest and grow Getting rid of unnecessary red tape - freeing up businesses to concentrate on expansion Only thing is - the Tory cupboard of good ideas is rather empty after you take their economic policies out. No party has all the answers! It sometimes seems a bit mad that we can't just pull the best ideas from the parties together and implement them. I couldn't vote Tory because I find their views on other things other than the economy appealing. That is sort of what we've had in Scotland for the past few years with the SNP and is a big reason for their popularity. This election they've gone all anti-Tory which is a bit odd as it was the Tories who kept them going in their first spell in power as a minority administration. Well it ain't that odd - they're targetting Labour voters so have adopted, what I think, is a bit of political posterising. But so does everyone else!
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 20:12:53 GMT
Basically the Tories plan to boost the economy revolve around creation of more jobs. Unfortunately Zero hours contract jobs only create wealth for those who are paying the wages . That's why the Chancellor is not getting the big boost in tax revenue which the Tories were expecting given the amount of new jobs created . It also has another knock on effect , where many low paid workers are still entitled to benefits as their families still fall well short of the poverty line threshold . It's a economy based on service type industries and low pay . It's been an issue for them. They create the circumstances for economic growth then sit back and think that's the job done. Was it you suggesting a grand alliance. Maybe that is what is needed. Best ideas from both sides rather than the half arsed approach each brings to the table.
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