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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 12:54:07 GMT
Well they've forced the issues other parties were shitting bricks about so I'd imagine ukip in Westminster would be far more useful than the finger spinners that have been there for decades must crack on I think that Natalie Bennett (the 'crazy lady' who wants to look at the evidence before making policy decisions) gets it spot on when it comes to the immigration debate. The bits that stand out to me are; "As someone who wasn’t born in this country, but has chosen to live here, I’m challenging this divisive consensus. I’m disappointed that instead of politicians standing up to challenge Ukip’s toxic message, they are instead attempting to out-Ukip Ukip. The establishment parties are now competing with one another to “get tough” on immigration, fighting to shout the loudest to blame immigrants for the country’s ills. It has been no surprise over the past five years to see such a response from the Tories. But from Labour, I had hoped for something different."and "It is a myth that most immigrants come to the UK to exploit our welfare state. It is a myth that so-called “health tourists” are to blame for failures in the NHS and it is a myth that migrants are to blame for housing shortages. It is time to stand up to those peddling these myths."www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/05/miliband-immigration-myths-nigel-farage-ukip-green-partyNatalie fuckeyed Bennett and links to the guardian ? For the umpteenth time he doesn't blame immigrants for coming here ......he blames the EU and UK governments for the no limit immigration policy that has flooded this country and still is.....fact you are beyond help
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Post by psychology on May 6, 2015 12:56:23 GMT
I watched this interview with Farage and the BBC. Their head of politics (whatever he is these days) asked him about gay marriage. Farage was right to react very angrily. We have a UK1.5 Trillion debt. And this bloke thought that poking a bit of fun around gay rights was reasonable journalism? The BBC need to learn from this fast. We pay a comparative bloody fortune for this.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 13:08:05 GMT
Well they've forced the issues other parties were shitting bricks about so I'd imagine ukip in Westminster would be far more useful than the finger spinners that have been there for decades must crack on I think that Natalie Bennett (the 'crazy lady' who wants to look at the evidence before making policy decisions) gets it spot on when it comes to the immigration debate. The bits that stand out to me are; "As someone who wasn’t born in this country, but has chosen to live here, I’m challenging this divisive consensus. I’m disappointed that instead of politicians standing up to challenge Ukip’s toxic message, they are instead attempting to out-Ukip Ukip. The establishment parties are now competing with one another to “get tough” on immigration, fighting to shout the loudest to blame immigrants for the country’s ills. It has been no surprise over the past five years to see such a response from the Tories. But from Labour, I had hoped for something different."and "It is a myth that most immigrants come to the UK to exploit our welfare state. It is a myth that so-called “health tourists” are to blame for failures in the NHS and it is a myth that migrants are to blame for housing shortages. It is time to stand up to those peddling these myths."www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/05/miliband-immigration-myths-nigel-farage-ukip-green-partySo Bennett is riling against Miliband of having a policy of "Controls on Immigration". Simple question - do you want controls on immigration? (Also to add - what a wonderful article by Bennett. She tells us about all these "myths" but doesn't once back it up with any evidence of why they are myths. Not once.)
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 13:13:09 GMT
I think that Natalie Bennett (the 'crazy lady' who wants to look at the evidence before making policy decisions) gets it spot on when it comes to the immigration debate. The bits that stand out to me are; "As someone who wasn’t born in this country, but has chosen to live here, I’m challenging this divisive consensus. I’m disappointed that instead of politicians standing up to challenge Ukip’s toxic message, they are instead attempting to out-Ukip Ukip. The establishment parties are now competing with one another to “get tough” on immigration, fighting to shout the loudest to blame immigrants for the country’s ills. It has been no surprise over the past five years to see such a response from the Tories. But from Labour, I had hoped for something different."and "It is a myth that most immigrants come to the UK to exploit our welfare state. It is a myth that so-called “health tourists” are to blame for failures in the NHS and it is a myth that migrants are to blame for housing shortages. It is time to stand up to those peddling these myths."www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/05/miliband-immigration-myths-nigel-farage-ukip-green-partyNatalie fuckeyed Bennett and links to the guardian ? For the umpteenth time he doesn't blame immigrants for coming here ......he blames the EU and UK governments for the no limit immigration policy that has flooded this country and still is.....fact you are beyond help I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 13:17:32 GMT
I think that Natalie Bennett (the 'crazy lady' who wants to look at the evidence before making policy decisions) gets it spot on when it comes to the immigration debate. The bits that stand out to me are; "As someone who wasn’t born in this country, but has chosen to live here, I’m challenging this divisive consensus. I’m disappointed that instead of politicians standing up to challenge Ukip’s toxic message, they are instead attempting to out-Ukip Ukip. The establishment parties are now competing with one another to “get tough” on immigration, fighting to shout the loudest to blame immigrants for the country’s ills. It has been no surprise over the past five years to see such a response from the Tories. But from Labour, I had hoped for something different."and "It is a myth that most immigrants come to the UK to exploit our welfare state. It is a myth that so-called “health tourists” are to blame for failures in the NHS and it is a myth that migrants are to blame for housing shortages. It is time to stand up to those peddling these myths."www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/05/miliband-immigration-myths-nigel-farage-ukip-green-partySo Bennett is riling against Miliband of having a policy of "Controls on Immigration". Simple question - do you want controls on immigration? (Also to add - what a wonderful article by Bennett. She tells us about all these "myths" but doesn't once back it up with any evidence of why they are myths. Not once.) possibly because what she describes as " myths " are mythical in themselves ?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 13:19:03 GMT
Natalie fuckeyed Bennett and links to the guardian ? For the umpteenth time he doesn't blame immigrants for coming here ......he blames the EU and UK governments for the no limit immigration policy that has flooded this country and still is.....fact you are beyond help I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out. Oh go then ....Tell us all what is causing us worse problems then .? You may want to refer to some global academics comments that no fuckers heard of in Barlaston or Burslem .....but I'm all ears none the less... The floor is yours ....
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 13:24:40 GMT
I think that Natalie Bennett (the 'crazy lady' who wants to look at the evidence before making policy decisions) gets it spot on when it comes to the immigration debate. The bits that stand out to me are; "As someone who wasn’t born in this country, but has chosen to live here, I’m challenging this divisive consensus. I’m disappointed that instead of politicians standing up to challenge Ukip’s toxic message, they are instead attempting to out-Ukip Ukip. The establishment parties are now competing with one another to “get tough” on immigration, fighting to shout the loudest to blame immigrants for the country’s ills. It has been no surprise over the past five years to see such a response from the Tories. But from Labour, I had hoped for something different."and "It is a myth that most immigrants come to the UK to exploit our welfare state. It is a myth that so-called “health tourists” are to blame for failures in the NHS and it is a myth that migrants are to blame for housing shortages. It is time to stand up to those peddling these myths."www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/05/miliband-immigration-myths-nigel-farage-ukip-green-partySo Bennett is riling against Miliband of having a policy of "Controls on Immigration". Simple question - do you want controls on immigration? (Also to add - what a wonderful article by Bennett. She tells us about all these "myths" but doesn't once back it up with any evidence of why they are myths. Not once.) I think immigration isn't as much of a big issue as its made out to be. I think there are bigger fish to fry. Regarding the 'myths' and there being no evidence, I've definitely heard Farage say all of those things before.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 13:26:05 GMT
c'mon then spill the beans ....
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Post by upthefud on May 6, 2015 13:27:56 GMT
Natalie fuckeyed Bennett and links to the guardian ? For the umpteenth time he doesn't blame immigrants for coming here ......he blames the EU and UK governments for the no limit immigration policy that has flooded this country and still is.....fact you are beyond help I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out. It's completely fair enough of you don't think immigration is an issue, like football we all have different opinions. Out of interest what would you say are more pressing? And of those you find more pressing: Would any government be able to rectify them whilst we are in the EU?
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 13:29:53 GMT
Natalie fuckeyed Bennett and links to the guardian ? For the umpteenth time he doesn't blame immigrants for coming here ......he blames the EU and UK governments for the no limit immigration policy that has flooded this country and still is.....fact you are beyond help I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out. Does not immigration have an affect on: housing wages NHS resources social cohesion security Welfare budgets...? It is one of the biggest factors in the problems we are facing. It's the head in the sand approach. The other evening in one of the televised debates Farage asked Miliband, Clegg, Wood and Sturgeon if any of them would admit that immigration is a factor in the housing crisis. They all refused. How can 100,000's of people (net) arriving in the UK each year - all needing somewhere to stay - not be a factor in the demand for housing? People who go on about the most important challenge that's facing us is social inequality. I'd agree that is a massive challenge. Absolutely - and one that I completely support. But one of the biggest factors there is on this problem is that immigration has helped keep wages (at the bottom and middle) down. The Tories are happy with this. Labour are happy with immigration as it helps swing elections in their favour. It's us the people who suffer.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 13:34:07 GMT
So Bennett is riling against Miliband of having a policy of "Controls on Immigration". Simple question - do you want controls on immigration? (Also to add - what a wonderful article by Bennett. She tells us about all these "myths" but doesn't once back it up with any evidence of why they are myths. Not once.) I think immigration isn't as much of a big issue as its made out to be. I think there are bigger fish to fry. Regarding the 'myths' and there being no evidence, I've definitely heard Farage say all of those things before. So you don't agree with Bennett you agree that there needs to be controls. So we're just talking about priorities then. What are you priorities?
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Post by upthefud on May 6, 2015 13:34:47 GMT
I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out. Does not immigration have an affect on: housing wages NHS resources social cohesion security Welfare budgets...? It is one of the biggest factors in the problems we are facing. It's the head in the sand approach. The other evening in one of the televised debates Farage asked Miliband, Clegg, Wood and Sturgeon if any of them would admit that immigration is a factor in the housing crisis. They all refused. How can 100,000's of people (net) arriving in the UK each year - all needing somewhere to stay - not be a factor in the demand for housing? People who go on about the most important challenge that's facing us is social inequality. I'd agree that is a massive challenge. Absolutely - and one that I completely support. But one of the biggest factors there is on this problem is that immigration has helped keep wages (at the bottom and middle) down. The Tories are happy with this. Labour are happy with immigration as it helps swing elections in their favour. It's us the people who suffer. I would group Immigration in the list you've given and say that it's EU that has knock on affects on everything. Everything UKIP say I find myself agreeing with.
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Post by crapslinger on May 6, 2015 13:46:02 GMT
c'mon then spill the beans .... They would be green beans
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 13:49:29 GMT
I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out. Does not immigration have an affect on: housing wages NHS resources social cohesion security Welfare budgets...? It is one of the biggest factors in the problems we are facing. It's the head in the sand approach. The other evening in one of the televised debates Farage asked Miliband, Clegg, Wood and Sturgeon if any of them would admit that immigration is a factor in the housing crisis. They all refused. How can 100,000's of people (net) arriving in the UK each year - all needing somewhere to stay - not be a factor in the demand for housing? People who go on about the most important challenge that's facing us is social inequality. I'd agree that is a massive challenge. Absolutely - and one that I completely support. But one of the biggest factors there is on this problem is that immigration has helped keep wages (at the bottom and middle) down. The Tories are happy with this. Labour are happy with immigration as it helps swing elections in their favour. It's us the people who suffer. Immigration has an affect on the things you've mentioned certainly but is it the main reason why the areas you've mentioned are causing problems? Absolutely not. Things we need to sort out - the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor (not caused by immigration) - tax avoidance - Low pay and insecutrity - the exploitation of zero hours contracts - the rising use of food banks - housing and in particular the struggles of young people to get on the housing market (this is due to low wages and it being incredibly difficult to get the money for a deposit in this ridiculous housing market. Our generation has turned into generation rent and its unacceptable). - the ridiculous control of the rental market exerted by greedy landlords - the number of people stuggling to get by on benefits - the ridiculous sanctions imposed on those claiming benefits (60 people dying during this coalition is completely unacceptable) - the ridiculous demonisation of the young (i.e cutting benefits for anyone under 21) Does immigration have an impact, a little bit yeah but thats it. There are many problems on that list that cannot and will not be solved just by controlling immigration.
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Post by crapslinger on May 6, 2015 13:50:46 GMT
I understand perfectly well that he's not blaming the immigrants for coming here. I understand he's blaming the 'immigration policy that has flooded this country' as a major reason that the country is in such a shit state. I disagree, there are other much bigger factors are causing the problems. Immigration should be way down on our list of priorities of things to sort out. Does not immigration have an affect on: housing wages NHS resources social cohesion security Welfare budgets...? It is one of the biggest factors in the problems we are facing. It's the head in the sand approach. The other evening in one of the televised debates Farage asked Miliband, Clegg, Wood and Sturgeon if any of them would admit that immigration is a factor in the housing crisis. They all refused. How can 100,000's of people (net) arriving in the UK each year - all needing somewhere to stay - not be a factor in the demand for housing? People who go on about the most important challenge that's facing us is social inequality. I'd agree that is a massive challenge. Absolutely - and one that I completely support. But one of the biggest factors there is on this problem is that immigration has helped keep wages (at the bottom and middle) down. The Tories are happy with this. Labour are happy with immigration as it helps swing elections in their favour. It's us the people who suffer. pretty much sums the consequences of mass migration on the indigenous population, not rocket science is it much of this mess is down to Labour (who I voted for at the last election), they have let this country down big style.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 14:02:33 GMT
Has UKIP changed what we're allowed to discuss? Yes. Will UKIP get the third highest vote from all parties - if the polls are to be believed? Yes. Do we have someone here who only likes democracy when they get the answer that they want? Sounds like it. It's got nothing to do with what I want. I'm just stating the truth, UKIP won't be able to implement any of their policies. It's a wasted vote under this current system, just like a vote for the Greens is. When another party like the Tories or Labour see an opportunity to adopt (Nick) a popular vote winning policy they will do it. This is what has happened with Cameron and his EU referendum and with Cameron and Miliband on immigration, they have changed their positions on these issues because they have seen them to be vote winning policies. These changes have been made because of UKIP no sane person contests that. This is called democracy in action. Support of UKIP by the people FORCING the two main parties to re-think their ideas. Do you seriously think that ALL UKIP supporters agree with everything that they say or for that matter that ALL tory party people are behind EVERY issue that Cameron raises, same for Miliband. So seats in westminster is the goal of all parties, however affecting change is a valid vote , not a wasted one.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 14:21:53 GMT
Does not immigration have an affect on: housing wages NHS resources social cohesion security Welfare budgets...? It is one of the biggest factors in the problems we are facing. It's the head in the sand approach. The other evening in one of the televised debates Farage asked Miliband, Clegg, Wood and Sturgeon if any of them would admit that immigration is a factor in the housing crisis. They all refused. How can 100,000's of people (net) arriving in the UK each year - all needing somewhere to stay - not be a factor in the demand for housing? People who go on about the most important challenge that's facing us is social inequality. I'd agree that is a massive challenge. Absolutely - and one that I completely support. But one of the biggest factors there is on this problem is that immigration has helped keep wages (at the bottom and middle) down. The Tories are happy with this. Labour are happy with immigration as it helps swing elections in their favour. It's us the people who suffer. Immigration has an affect on the things you've mentioned certainly but is it the main reason why the areas you've mentioned are causing problems? Absolutely not. Things we need to sort out - the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor (not caused by immigration) - tax avoidance - Low pay and insecutrity - the exploitation of zero hours contracts - the rising use of food banks - housing and in particular the struggles of young people to get on the housing market (this is due to low wages and it being incredibly difficult to get the money for a deposit in this ridiculous housing market. Our generation has turned into generation rent and its unacceptable). - the ridiculous control of the rental market exerted by greedy landlords - the number of people stuggling to get by on benefits - the ridiculous sanctions imposed on those claiming benefits (60 people dying during this coalition is completely unacceptable) - the ridiculous demonisation of the young (i.e cutting benefits for anyone under 21) Does immigration have an impact, a little bit yeah but thats it. There are many problems on that list that cannot and will not be solved just by controlling immigration.
But of the problems you list there - a large proportion are put under significant pressure by high immigration.
"- the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor (not caused by immigration)" - but it's supply and demand. The more people there are in the job market - the less employers need to pay.You can't just ignore that. "- tax avoidance " - agreed "- Low pay and insecutrity" same comment, the more people there are in the job market, the more employers can force low pay and high staff turnovers. "- the exploitation of zero hours contracts" Ditto. "- the rising use of food banks" agreed. "- housing and in particular the struggles of young people to get on the housing market (this is due to low wages and it being incredibly difficult to get the money for a deposit in this ridiculous housing market. Our generation has turned into generation rent and its unacceptable)." Again, it's supply and demand. Do the 7-8million immigrants in the UK not need somewhere to live? Does this not put pressure on the housing market? More people needing somewhere to live means more demand. That puts up house prices and the cost of renting. "- the ridiculous control of the rental market exerted by greedy landlords" Agreed - but the level of demand which is in part caused by immigration allows them to get away with it. "- the number of people stuggling to get by on benefits" Agreed "- the ridiculous sanctions imposed on those claiming benefits (60 people dying during this coalition is completely unacceptable)" - partly agreed "- the ridiculous demonisation of the young (i.e cutting benefits for anyone under 21) " - partly agreed
So ignoring immigration is ignoring one of the main drivers for a lot of what you are concerned about. It's all about supply and demand.
Reducing net immigration doesn't solve all our problems - nobody is claiming it to, but has such a wide impact that we are crazy to ignore it.
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Post by boothenboy75 on May 6, 2015 14:57:05 GMT
Does not immigration have an affect on: housing wages NHS resources social cohesion security Welfare budgets...? It is one of the biggest factors in the problems we are facing. It's the head in the sand approach. The other evening in one of the televised debates Farage asked Miliband, Clegg, Wood and Sturgeon if any of them would admit that immigration is a factor in the housing crisis. They all refused. How can 100,000's of people (net) arriving in the UK each year - all needing somewhere to stay - not be a factor in the demand for housing? People who go on about the most important challenge that's facing us is social inequality. I'd agree that is a massive challenge. Absolutely - and one that I completely support. But one of the biggest factors there is on this problem is that immigration has helped keep wages (at the bottom and middle) down. The Tories are happy with this. Labour are happy with immigration as it helps swing elections in their favour. It's us the people who suffer. Immigration has an affect on the things you've mentioned certainly but is it the main reason why the areas you've mentioned are causing problems? Absolutely not. Things we need to sort out - the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor (not caused by immigration) - tax avoidance - Low pay and insecutrity - the exploitation of zero hours contracts - the rising use of food banks - housing and in particular the struggles of young people to get on the housing market (this is due to low wages and it being incredibly difficult to get the money for a deposit in this ridiculous housing market. Our generation has turned into generation rent and its unacceptable). - the ridiculous control of the rental market exerted by greedy landlords - the number of people stuggling to get by on benefits - the ridiculous sanctions imposed on those claiming benefits (60 people dying during this coalition is completely unacceptable) - the ridiculous demonisation of the young (i.e cutting benefits for anyone under 21) Does immigration have an impact, a little bit yeah but thats it. There are many problems on that list that cannot and will not be solved just by controlling immigration. Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that.
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 15:03:01 GMT
Immigration has an affect on the things you've mentioned certainly but is it the main reason why the areas you've mentioned are causing problems? Absolutely not. Things we need to sort out - the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor (not caused by immigration) - tax avoidance - Low pay and insecutrity - the exploitation of zero hours contracts - the rising use of food banks - housing and in particular the struggles of young people to get on the housing market (this is due to low wages and it being incredibly difficult to get the money for a deposit in this ridiculous housing market. Our generation has turned into generation rent and its unacceptable). - the ridiculous control of the rental market exerted by greedy landlords - the number of people stuggling to get by on benefits - the ridiculous sanctions imposed on those claiming benefits (60 people dying during this coalition is completely unacceptable) - the ridiculous demonisation of the young (i.e cutting benefits for anyone under 21) Does immigration have an impact, a little bit yeah but that's it. There are many problems on that list that cannot and will not be solved just by controlling immigration. Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that. Actually - as is always the case with the left - he leaves out the single biggest challenge any Government faces; the Economy. Who is going to create the jobs that result in the taxes that pay for all the stuff listed. Not to say he isn't raising serious issues. But if you mess up the economy everything goes bad.
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Post by boothenboy75 on May 6, 2015 15:19:19 GMT
Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that. Actually - as is always the case with the left - he leaves out the single biggest challenge any Government faces; the Economy. Who is going to create the jobs that result in the taxes that pay for all the stuff listed. Not to say he isn't raising serious issues. But if you mess up the economy everything goes bad. He reminds me of the Peoples Front of Judea or was it The Peoples Judean Front, with their famous what have the Romans ever done for us scene. Uncontrolled immigration what has it ever done for us, other than lowered wages, increased welfare costs, lowered health care provision, increased house prices and rents, weakened communities, diluted your culture. Other than that what has it ever done for us?
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 15:34:34 GMT
Immigration has an affect on the things you've mentioned certainly but is it the main reason why the areas you've mentioned are causing problems? Absolutely not. Things we need to sort out - the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor (not caused by immigration) - tax avoidance - Low pay and insecutrity - the exploitation of zero hours contracts - the rising use of food banks - housing and in particular the struggles of young people to get on the housing market (this is due to low wages and it being incredibly difficult to get the money for a deposit in this ridiculous housing market. Our generation has turned into generation rent and its unacceptable). - the ridiculous control of the rental market exerted by greedy landlords - the number of people stuggling to get by on benefits - the ridiculous sanctions imposed on those claiming benefits (60 people dying during this coalition is completely unacceptable) - the ridiculous demonisation of the young (i.e cutting benefits for anyone under 21) Does immigration have an impact, a little bit yeah but thats it. There are many problems on that list that cannot and will not be solved just by controlling immigration. Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that. I'd actually like to challenge you to tell me what UKIP are going to do to solve the problems I've mentioned. It seems to me like only Labour and the Greens are even remotely interested in trying to challenge inequality. Which is in my opinion the single biggest thing that needs to be addressed not just in our society but worldwide.
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 15:42:46 GMT
Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that. Actually - as is always the case with the left - he leaves out the single biggest challenge any Government faces; the Economy. Who is going to create the jobs that result in the taxes that pay for all the stuff listed. Not to say he isn't raising serious issues. But if you mess up the economy everything goes bad. If we start taxing the big corporations as we should be then thats a massive source of funds we can use to try and solve these problems. We desperately need to address growing inequality too and that isn't to do with the economy, thats to do with a fairer distribution of what we already have.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 15:46:43 GMT
And just to add:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/07/the-government-must-address-the-effect-of-mass-immigration-on-poorer-voters/
"Today’s Migration Advisory Committee report on the impact of low-skilled migration to this country sheds a small amount of light on what has been blindingly obvious for a long time to people at the bottom."
"Working- and lower middle-class voters have serious and justified concerns about the impact of this mass immigration on their lives and on our society. They are the ones bearing the costs of fierce competition for school places, pressure on maternity units, creaking transport services and longer waiting lists for housing. In London alone, where more than one million immigrants have arrived since 1997, there are over 350,000 households on local authority waiting lists."
"We need radical proposals also to address the negative impact of mass immigration on the wages of the low paid. The MAC report describes employers’ attraction to a more ‘obedient source of low-wage labour’, and it sets out the downward pressure – and the lack of resistance to this – on wages at the bottom resulting from low-skilled immigration."
So to decouple low pay from immigration is just simply wrong.
It's not the fault of immigrants. Not at all. They're just like everyone else trying to scrape a living.
But it's the fault of the ridiculous levels of immigration that has occurred for a while now.
On housing, even the current government admits the effect:
"One area in which we can be certain mass immigration has an effect is housing. More than one third of all new housing demand in Britain is caused by immigration. And there is evidence that without the demand caused by mass immigration, house prices could be ten per cent lower over a twenty year period"
www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretary-speech-on-an-immigration-system-that-works-in-the-national-interest
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Post by Northy on May 6, 2015 15:50:21 GMT
It's when we get a rest from it all.......and Dave's gone hopefully As I've said before. For every kilo of dirt people can dig up on ukip I could dig a ton on the other parties. Can't wait put that X in the box next to UKIP come election day. It's defo the right thing to do . Of that there is no doubt Go on then, show us some other parliamentary candidates vowing to blow another candidates brains out
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Post by upthefud on May 6, 2015 15:55:20 GMT
As I've said before. For every kilo of dirt people can dig up on ukip I could dig a ton on the other parties. Can't wait put that X in the box next to UKIP come election day. It's defo the right thing to do . Of that there is no doubt Go on then, show us some other parliamentary candidates vowing to blow another candidates brains out UKIP are a relatively (at the moment) small political party with a low budget. They can't vet everyone to the same level of other parties. By suspending him immediately I don't really see how you can hold this against them. Let's not rule out that in certain cases the Tories or Labour Party may have bribed a weak minded candidate to say something stupid. You now how desperate they are.
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Post by boothenboy75 on May 6, 2015 16:09:52 GMT
Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that. I'd actually like to challenge you to tell me what UKIP are going to do to solve the problems I've mentioned. It seems to me like only Labour and the Greens are even remotely interested in trying to challenge inequality. Which is in my opinion the single biggest thing that needs to be addressed not just in our society but worldwide. You've challenged everyone over several threads about UKIP's policies and if you haven't managed to take it on board yet theres little hope in continuing. If you think Labour will solve inequality then you need to have a look at what happened to inequality over the last 13 years of labour rule. If you think the greens will provide a stable prosperous country for the generations to come then you are as daft as you sound. Do you UKIP have the answer for everything, no they don't but they'll do more for the vast majority in this country than the usual bullshitters, anyone who votes for the usual suspects should only expect more of the same. So if your happy with that stick with Labour and make Ed Balls chancellor who writes bouncing personal cheques and can't even do his times tables.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 6, 2015 16:12:43 GMT
Go on then, seeing as you have the answer for everything, tell us who you're going to vote for that will solve all of that. I'd actually like to challenge you to tell me what UKIP are going to do to solve the problems I've mentioned. It seems to me like only Labour and the Greens are even remotely interested in trying to challenge inequality. Which is in my opinion the single biggest thing that needs to be addressed not just in our society but worldwide. Haven't I already explained that? Putting an end to mass immigration will have a much bigger impact on the issues of housing and low pay than any other policy - because you're starting to reduce the demand.
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2015 16:35:41 GMT
Actually - as is always the case with the left - he leaves out the single biggest challenge any Government faces; the Economy. Who is going to create the jobs that result in the taxes that pay for all the stuff listed. Not to say he isn't raising serious issues. But if you mess up the economy everything goes bad. If we start taxing the big corporations as we should be then thats a massive source of funds we can use to try and solve these problems. We desperately need to address growing inequality too and that isn't to do with the economy, thats to do with a fairer distribution of what we already have. Sorry pal - but that ain't an answer to my question. Maybe this a topic for a separate thread. Forget taxation and wealth distribution for a moment - they are important topics though. What do you do about wealth creation - creating the money to pay for all the stuff you want to do.
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 16:43:38 GMT
If we start taxing the big corporations as we should be then thats a massive source of funds we can use to try and solve these problems. We desperately need to address growing inequality too and that isn't to do with the economy, thats to do with a fairer distribution of what we already have. Sorry pal - but that ain't an answer to my question. Maybe this a topic for a separate thread. Forget taxation and wealth distribution for a moment - they are important topics though. What do you do about wealth creation - creating the money to pay for all the stuff you want to do. I disagree, the money is there already it's just not distributed fairly. How does making things more equal for people not help to solve the things I've listed?
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Post by edgepotter on May 6, 2015 16:51:15 GMT
I'd actually like to challenge you to tell me what UKIP are going to do to solve the problems I've mentioned. It seems to me like only Labour and the Greens are even remotely interested in trying to challenge inequality. Which is in my opinion the single biggest thing that needs to be addressed not just in our society but worldwide. Haven't I already explained that? Putting an end to mass immigration will have a much bigger impact on the issues of housing and low pay than any other policy - because you're starting to reduce the demand. I'm certainly not knocking what you're saying because it's a valid argument that can't be dismissed, but having better controls on immigration doesn't solve the problem, it only alleviates it and only slightly. I disagree with you about the impact immigrants have on low pay though, I'm not saying it doesn't have an impact in certain areas but I think you're overstating the impact quite significantly. I think that's more to do with our economy and inequality that is so prevalent within our society. Just even from personal experience for every low wage job I've had where I can guarantee you that it wasn't because unskilled migrant workers were causing the wage to be lowered.
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