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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 5, 2015 18:58:09 GMT
Has Harry gone into meltdown?
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 19:22:31 GMT
You twist people's words you tell half truths and you take things out of context. You think it's ok for certain people to do certain things but not for others. You don't know how to debate without resorting to insults and you have provided no evidence of anything.There are no insults from me directed towards you in the 'long winded reply that you can't be arsed to read' that you've quoted me in Harry. I'm simply asking you to prove what you're saying and you're not doing it. You can keep saying this sort off stuff all you like but it doesn't make it true. Give me examples Harry, specific examples. You say (notice how I quote you all the time so that I'm not lying or twisting your words, people can see exactly what you've said); "Islam treats women as 2nd class citizens. Women are not equal within Islam and it's still in the dark ages."I'm not trying to dispute this with you, it is a completely separate debate to what we have been directly discussing. In the hodge hill labour rally thread you said; " Racial segregation is wrong and so is gender segregation" The section I've highlighted is what I'm debating with you, I'm not and never have been debating Islam treating women as 2nd class citizens, you are the only one debating this. I'm saying for the 4th time now. The segregation of men and women in Islam has nothing to do with inequality, and that you can find countless blog/articles/discussions online where followers of Islam make this point pretty clear. And just another clear point to make, how is it unequal when they are in the SAME room, attending the SAME rally as each other? Tell me where the inequality is there? If they were forced to attend separate meetings for men and women then that would be unequal, and if the men banned women from attending the meeting then that would also make it unequal, but none of these things happen. Here's some evidence for you too Harry. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6024629/Segregation-common-in-Islam.html (this is a well respected paper, nothing biased about it) www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hussein-kesvani/gender-segregation-muslim-women_b_4450492.htmlwww.newvision.co.ug/news/642087-why-muslim-women-and-men-sit-separately-in-mosques.htmlwww.onreligion.co.uk/the-segregation-debate/ (this is written by a muslim woman, you can't claim this is media bias) awaremuslim.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gender-segregation-whats-all-fuss-about.html Sorry I didn't realise that only you could define the points to debate? www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/as-a-muslim-i-oppose-gender-segregation-in-universities-but-its-advocates-have-every-right-to-their-opinion-9000088.html"Separate seating can reflect an idealisation of a Saudi-style system where men and women hardly interact outside of a familial setting. This de-facto disempowers women who are reduced to existing in a male universe. This is neither desirable, nor Islamic. But prohibiting separate seating doesn’t resolve underlying sexism, it merely forces its advocates off campus where the views expressed are less likely to be challenged. And what does it say of more progressive interpretations if the only way to encourage them is through legal imposition?" www.uokufa.edu.iq/journals/index.php/Kufa_Review/article/viewFile/31/pdf_23"So-called Islamic rules of segregation are supposed to preserve chastity in both men and women and therefore «protect» believers from temptation, evil and sin. Instead, it increases mutual ignorance about the other gender, maintains and promotes inequality and reinforces discrimination in societies that are already culturally patriarchal." What you present is one sided and simplistic. There is debate about this in both the Muslim and non-Muslim communities. I am assuming it is just an oversight on your behalf to start a thread asking supporters of other parties to justify their parties policies? Justify how they will be costed? You make some good points and this is what debate is all about, I wish Harry was prepared to engage in the way you have. There's always two sides to an argument and I'm never going to pretend otherwise. I personally disagree with segregation and I think it's completely unnecessary but what I do think is that it's down to the muslim people themselves to make their own decisions when it comes to their own culture/religion. It's not for the likes of stokeharry to insist that they have to do things the way that we do them. People will always interpret things differently but those muslims that do choose to segregate themselves don't believe that what they do comes down to inequality so who are we to tell them otherwise.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 5, 2015 19:48:04 GMT
Sorry I didn't realise that only you could define the points to debate? www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/as-a-muslim-i-oppose-gender-segregation-in-universities-but-its-advocates-have-every-right-to-their-opinion-9000088.html"Separate seating can reflect an idealisation of a Saudi-style system where men and women hardly interact outside of a familial setting. This de-facto disempowers women who are reduced to existing in a male universe. This is neither desirable, nor Islamic. But prohibiting separate seating doesn’t resolve underlying sexism, it merely forces its advocates off campus where the views expressed are less likely to be challenged. And what does it say of more progressive interpretations if the only way to encourage them is through legal imposition?" www.uokufa.edu.iq/journals/index.php/Kufa_Review/article/viewFile/31/pdf_23"So-called Islamic rules of segregation are supposed to preserve chastity in both men and women and therefore «protect» believers from temptation, evil and sin. Instead, it increases mutual ignorance about the other gender, maintains and promotes inequality and reinforces discrimination in societies that are already culturally patriarchal." What you present is one sided and simplistic. There is debate about this in both the Muslim and non-Muslim communities. I am assuming it is just an oversight on your behalf to start a thread asking supporters of other parties to justify their parties policies? Justify how they will be costed? You make some good points and this is what debate is all about, I wish Harry was prepared to engage in the way you have. There's always two sides to an argument and I'm never going to pretend otherwise. I personally disagree with segregation and I think it's completely unnecessary but what I do think is that it's down to the muslim people themselves to make their own decisions when it comes to their own culture/religion. It's not for the likes of stokeharry to insist that they have to do things the way that we do them. People will always interpret things differently but those muslims that do choose to segregate themselves don't believe that what they do comes down to inequality so who are we to tell them otherwise.
It looks as though there are different reasons driving the segregation: historical practices, interpretation of the Quran, but is seems pretty clear to me that it is used to keep women in their place.
Your phase "...make their own decisions when it comes to their own culture/religion" is pretty telling. Firstly from my experience, there is no choice involved. Pressure is applied to woman to make the decision that is deemed right. Secondly, it may be their historical culture, but they need to respect the culture of the country where they reside don't they?
Still waiting for those thread questioning other parties policies.
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 20:23:28 GMT
You make some good points and this is what debate is all about, I wish Harry was prepared to engage in the way you have. There's always two sides to an argument and I'm never going to pretend otherwise. I personally disagree with segregation and I think it's completely unnecessary but what I do think is that it's down to the muslim people themselves to make their own decisions when it comes to their own culture/religion. It's not for the likes of stokeharry to insist that they have to do things the way that we do them. People will always interpret things differently but those muslims that do choose to segregate themselves don't believe that what they do comes down to inequality so who are we to tell them otherwise.
It looks as though there are different reasons driving the segregation: historical practices, interpretation of the Quran, but is seems pretty clear to me that it is used to keep women in their place.
Your phase "...make their own decisions when it comes to their own culture/religion" is pretty telling. Firstly from my experience, there is no choice involved. Pressure is applied to woman to make the decision that is deemed right. Secondly, it may be their historical culture, but they need to respect the culture of the country where they reside don't they?
Still waiting for those thread questioning other parties policies.
You say from your experience, can I ask what that experience is? How do you know pressure is applied? It might be the case for some, but there will be some that genuinely believe that segregation is the right thing for them, who are we to tell them that they are wrong? If change is to happen and the culture of segregation is questioned and criticised don't you think it's for the best that the change comes from within Islam rather than being told what they should be doing by those who don't follow Islam? And when you say; "they need to respect the culture of the country where they reside don't they?" I disagree. Do they need to respect the law? Absolutely of course they do, just like anyone else in this country. My stance is that anyone should be able to do anything they like providing what they do is within the laws of the land. This is as much as we should expect of anybody and anything more isn't required or necessary.
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Post by crapslinger on May 5, 2015 20:33:39 GMT
How does Islam feel about it's followers raping white children in the UK, they do not feel segregation is the way to go when they are buried taters deep in some 13 year old girls arse do they while her tongue is nailed to a table, then the rest of the gang repeat their disgusting depraved acts, fucking paedophile scum. You make the mistake of thinking I agree with all aspects of Islam and I don't. I'm only making the very simple point that segregation between men and women is nothing to do with inequality. What you refer to is completely disgusting and unacceptable, it also happens in our culture by the way. I agree paedophiles of any form deserve castrating or hanging, it appears that raping white children is not frowned upon by many Muslims indeed their spiritual leader was a child molester, as we have seen even though there was it seems a cover up that gangs of Muslim men have been raping white children all over the UK, is it that they are taught that a)Females are inferior or b) that white girls are fair game to Muslims. Fucking scum who try to hide behind their religious beliefs/teachings to excuse this depraved barbaric behaviour.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 5, 2015 20:44:17 GMT
It looks as though there are different reasons driving the segregation: historical practices, interpretation of the Quran, but is seems pretty clear to me that it is used to keep women in their place.
Your phase "...make their own decisions when it comes to their own culture/religion" is pretty telling. Firstly from my experience, there is no choice involved. Pressure is applied to woman to make the decision that is deemed right. Secondly, it may be their historical culture, but they need to respect the culture of the country where they reside don't they?
Still waiting for those thread questioning other parties policies.
You say from your experience, can I ask what that experience is? How do you know pressure is applied? It might be the case for some, but there will be some that genuinely believe that segregation is the right thing for them, who are we to tell them that they are wrong? If change is to happen and the culture of segregation is questioned and criticised don't you think it's for the best that the change comes from within Islam rather than being told what they should be doing by those who don't follow Islam? And when you say; "they need to respect the culture of the country where they reside don't they?" I disagree. Do they need to respect the law? Absolutely of course they do, just like anyone else in this country. My stance is that anyone should be able to do anything they like providing what they do is within the laws of the land. This is as much as we should expect of anybody and anything more isn't required or necessary. In my first year of Uni (many years ago) within the small group of friends I had on my course there was a Muslim girl. She had pressure applied to her to wear the veil, remove herself from our group, not talk to men, sit only with females, etc. You're quite right - the Muslim community needs to drive this - but they need encouragement - hence why I suggested on the other thread I said that the right course of action when a politician was met by a segregated audience is to explain that the reason why this isn't right and that this would be need to be resolved prior to continuing. You don't think that they should respect the existing culture? This is one area that we have got badly wrong (as Trevor Philips has now realised www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03/16/multiculturalism-race-trevor-phillips_n_6875826.html).
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Post by partickpotter on May 5, 2015 21:29:06 GMT
Has Harry gone into meltdown? Would you piss on him though if he was on fire?
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 21:29:41 GMT
Another long winded reply that I can't be arsed to read. Same old drivel that we've been over time n time again. I stand by everything I say. Islam treats women as 2nd class citizens. Women are not equal within Islam and it's still in the dark ages. You twist people's words you tell half truths and you take things out of context. You think it's ok for certain people to do certain things but not for others. You don't know how to debate without resorting to insults and you have provided no evidence of anything. It's seriously a discussion that you will not win. You may as well try and debate with someone else mate because I stand by everything I say. You haven't proven a thing. You have one set of standards for certain groups but another set of standards for those that dont agree with you and that's why I don't respect what you have to say .You ignore facts and pretend that you are missing the point when in reality you know exactly what you are Must try harder EP You twist people's words you tell half truths and you take things out of context. You think it's ok for certain people to do certain things but not for others. You don't know how to debate without resorting to insults and you have provided no evidence of anything.There are no insults from me directed towards you in the 'long winded reply that you can't be arsed to read' that you've quoted me in Harry. I'm simply asking you to prove what you're saying and you're not doing it. You can keep saying this sort off stuff all you like but it doesn't make it true. Give me examples Harry, specific examples. You say (notice how I quote you all the time so that I'm not lying or twisting your words, people can see exactly what you've said); "Islam treats women as 2nd class citizens. Women are not equal within Islam and it's still in the dark ages."I'm not trying to dispute this with you, it is a completely separate debate to what we have been directly discussing. In the hodge hill labour rally thread you said; " Racial segregation is wrong and so is gender segregation" The section I've highlighted is what I'm debating with you, I'm not and never have been debating Islam treating women as 2nd class citizens, you are the only one debating this. I'm saying for the 4th time now. The segregation of men and women in Islam has nothing to do with inequality, and that you can find countless blog/articles/discussions online where followers of Islam make this point pretty clear. And just another clear point to make, how is it unequal when they are in the SAME room, attending the SAME rally as each other? Tell me where the inequality is there? If they were forced to attend separate meetings for men and women then that would be unequal, and if the men banned women from attending the meeting then that would also make it unequal, but none of these things happen. Here's some evidence for you too Harry. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6024629/Segregation-common-in-Islam.html (this is a well respected paper, nothing biased about it) www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hussein-kesvani/gender-segregation-muslim-women_b_4450492.htmlwww.newvision.co.ug/news/642087-why-muslim-women-and-men-sit-separately-in-mosques.htmlwww.onreligion.co.uk/the-segregation-debate/ (this is written by a muslim woman, you can't claim this is media bias) awaremuslim.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gender-segregation-whats-all-fuss-about.html Not a chance am I reading all that mate lol. I have no idea what you have said but I'm assuming you are just repeating yourself as per usual so here it goes You twist people's words you take things out of context you only tell half the story and you don't listen to what people say. You thinks it's ok for certain groups to behave and act in a particular way but you set a different set of standards for others. You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you You ask for evidence for obvious things and when people tell you to stop being lazy and to do your own research you have a hissy fit. There is no way I'm trawling through all your silly posts just for you to back track and make excuses. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages and women are not treated equally in Islam. Segregation is wrong and it reeks of inequality. You have lost this argument and you have changed nothing. I'm voting UKIP and I still think you are wrong and I am right. The fact that you feel the need to constantly convince me to think like you is all the evidence I need that you are very insecure. I don't agree with you and your approach and I never will. You may as well save your breath mate. We are two very different kinds of people and that's how I like it. Now learn to accept yourself stop seeking constant approval from other and fuck crying out loud develop some self confidence. Vote UKIP mate. You know you want to
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 21:30:07 GMT
Has Harry gone into meltdown? Never
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 21:30:35 GMT
Has Harry gone into meltdown? Would you piss on him though if he was on fire? I'm not into water sports
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 21:31:46 GMT
You say from your experience, can I ask what that experience is? How do you know pressure is applied? It might be the case for some, but there will be some that genuinely believe that segregation is the right thing for them, who are we to tell them that they are wrong? If change is to happen and the culture of segregation is questioned and criticised don't you think it's for the best that the change comes from within Islam rather than being told what they should be doing by those who don't follow Islam? And when you say; "they need to respect the culture of the country where they reside don't they?" I disagree. Do they need to respect the law? Absolutely of course they do, just like anyone else in this country. My stance is that anyone should be able to do anything they like providing what they do is within the laws of the land. This is as much as we should expect of anybody and anything more isn't required or necessary. In my first year of Uni (many years ago) within the small group of friends I had on my course there was a Muslim girl. She had pressure applied to her to wear the veil, remove herself from our group, not talk to men, sit only with females, etc. You're quite right - the Muslim community needs to drive this - but they need encouragement - hence why I suggested on the other thread I said that the right course of action when a politician was met by a segregated audience is to explain that the reason why this isn't right and that this would be need to be resolved prior to continuing. You don't think that they should respect the existing culture? This is one area that we have got badly wrong (as Trevor Philips has now realised www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03/16/multiculturalism-race-trevor-phillips_n_6875826.html). " In my first year of Uni (many years ago) within the small group of friends I had on my course there was a Muslim girl. She had pressure applied to her to wear the veil, remove herself from our group, not talk to men, sit only with females, etc." What you've said is very unfortunate, no-one should be pressured to do anything that they don't want to do, they should only be doing it if they believe its the right thing for them to do. I wonder how many women in Islam this applies to and I'm also wondering how many do it out of choice? There is no real way of knowing. This in itself raises even more questions, I think if women are doing it because they have chosen to (and there will be women have made that choice) then I don't think it's our place to tell them what they should and shouldn't be doing. Is it for us to effectively 'police' and tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing? Does this create more friction between the different groups if they don't appreciate being told what to do? It's incredibly complex. Based on this I'll slightly change the wording of my stance. Anyone should be able to do anything they like (that they choose to do of their own accord) providing what they do is within the laws of the land. This is as much as we should expect of anybody and anything more isn't required or necessary.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 21:36:44 GMT
Like I keep telling Harry what you are referring to is a completely different debate/argument to what I'm saying which is; The segregation of men and women in Islam has nothing to do with inequality, and that you can find countless blog/articles/discussions online where followers of Islam make this point pretty clear. How does Islam feel about it's followers raping white children in the UK, they do not feel segregation is the way to go when they are buried taters deep in some 13 year old girls arse do they while her tongue is nailed to a table, then the rest of the gang repeat their disgusting depraved acts, fucking paedophile scum. Good post. But unfortunately some of the clowns on here will always make excuses for Islam because they think they are being "anti racist" by doing so. They are wrong and that is sickening
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 21:49:41 GMT
You twist people's words you tell half truths and you take things out of context. You think it's ok for certain people to do certain things but not for others. You don't know how to debate without resorting to insults and you have provided no evidence of anything.There are no insults from me directed towards you in the 'long winded reply that you can't be arsed to read' that you've quoted me in Harry. I'm simply asking you to prove what you're saying and you're not doing it. You can keep saying this sort off stuff all you like but it doesn't make it true. Give me examples Harry, specific examples. You say (notice how I quote you all the time so that I'm not lying or twisting your words, people can see exactly what you've said); "Islam treats women as 2nd class citizens. Women are not equal within Islam and it's still in the dark ages."I'm not trying to dispute this with you, it is a completely separate debate to what we have been directly discussing. In the hodge hill labour rally thread you said; " Racial segregation is wrong and so is gender segregation" The section I've highlighted is what I'm debating with you, I'm not and never have been debating Islam treating women as 2nd class citizens, you are the only one debating this. I'm saying for the 4th time now. The segregation of men and women in Islam has nothing to do with inequality, and that you can find countless blog/articles/discussions online where followers of Islam make this point pretty clear. And just another clear point to make, how is it unequal when they are in the SAME room, attending the SAME rally as each other? Tell me where the inequality is there? If they were forced to attend separate meetings for men and women then that would be unequal, and if the men banned women from attending the meeting then that would also make it unequal, but none of these things happen. Here's some evidence for you too Harry. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6024629/Segregation-common-in-Islam.html (this is a well respected paper, nothing biased about it) www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hussein-kesvani/gender-segregation-muslim-women_b_4450492.htmlwww.newvision.co.ug/news/642087-why-muslim-women-and-men-sit-separately-in-mosques.htmlwww.onreligion.co.uk/the-segregation-debate/ (this is written by a muslim woman, you can't claim this is media bias) awaremuslim.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gender-segregation-whats-all-fuss-about.html Not a chance am I reading all that mate lol. I have no idea what you have said but I'm assuming you are just repeating yourself as per usual so here it goes You twist people's words you take things out of context you only tell half the story and you don't listen to what people say. You thinks it's ok for certain groups to behave and act in a particular way but you set a different set of standards for others. You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you You ask for evidence for obvious things and when people tell you to stop being lazy and to do your own research you have a hissy fit. There is no way I'm trawling through all your silly posts just for you to back track and make excuses. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages and women are not treated equally in Islam. Segregation is wrong and it reeks of inequality. You have lost this argument and you have changed nothing. I'm voting UKIP and I still think you are wrong and I am right. The fact that you feel the need to constantly convince me to think like you is all the evidence I need that you are very insecure. I don't agree with you and your approach and I never will. You may as well save your breath mate. We are two very different kinds of people and that's how I like it. Now learn to accept yourself stop seeking constant approval from other and fuck crying out loud develop some self confidence. Vote UKIP mate. You know you want to You've either got the best troll game I've ever come across, or you're just incredibly, incredibly stupid. I'll make my last point short though just so that you don't get bored reading it. You've said; "You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you"
Again that statement is very contradictory, I've provided evidence it just doesn't fit in with your opinion and you can't just dismiss everything as biased because this isn't the case. You should take a look at what ukcstokie has done and learn a lesson or two from him, although we've clearly got opposing opinions he's put his point across in a respectful manner, which I've listened to because he's making reasoned points that actually have some thought behind them, I haven't just ignored his evidence and rubbished his opinion. It's how debating works when it's done properly.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 21:56:23 GMT
Not a chance am I reading all that mate lol. I have no idea what you have said but I'm assuming you are just repeating yourself as per usual so here it goes You twist people's words you take things out of context you only tell half the story and you don't listen to what people say. You thinks it's ok for certain groups to behave and act in a particular way but you set a different set of standards for others. You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you You ask for evidence for obvious things and when people tell you to stop being lazy and to do your own research you have a hissy fit. There is no way I'm trawling through all your silly posts just for you to back track and make excuses. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages and women are not treated equally in Islam. Segregation is wrong and it reeks of inequality. You have lost this argument and you have changed nothing. I'm voting UKIP and I still think you are wrong and I am right. The fact that you feel the need to constantly convince me to think like you is all the evidence I need that you are very insecure. I don't agree with you and your approach and I never will. You may as well save your breath mate. We are two very different kinds of people and that's how I like it. Now learn to accept yourself stop seeking constant approval from other and fuck crying out loud develop some self confidence. Vote UKIP mate. You know you want to You've either got the best troll game I've ever come across, or you're just incredibly, incredibly stupid. I'll make my last point short though just so that you don't get bored reading it. You've said; "You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you"
Again that statement is very contradictory, I've provided evidence it just doesn't fit in with your opinion and you can't just dismiss everything as biased because this isn't the case. You should take a look at what ukcstokie has done and learn a lesson or two from him, although we've clearly got opposing opinions he's put his point across in a respectful manner, which I've listened to because he's making reasoned points that actually have some thought behind them, I haven't just ignored his evidence and rubbished his opinion. It's how debating works when it's done properly. Ay up he's here again. Rather than read your bullshit mate and rather than re type everything I've already said a million times ill save us both the time and ill simply say ---re read my previous reply. It still stands and I stand by everything I say.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 22:04:10 GMT
Not a chance am I reading all that mate lol. I have no idea what you have said but I'm assuming you are just repeating yourself as per usual so here it goes You twist people's words you take things out of context you only tell half the story and you don't listen to what people say. You thinks it's ok for certain groups to behave and act in a particular way but you set a different set of standards for others. You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you You ask for evidence for obvious things and when people tell you to stop being lazy and to do your own research you have a hissy fit. There is no way I'm trawling through all your silly posts just for you to back track and make excuses. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages and women are not treated equally in Islam. Segregation is wrong and it reeks of inequality. You have lost this argument and you have changed nothing. I'm voting UKIP and I still think you are wrong and I am right. The fact that you feel the need to constantly convince me to think like you is all the evidence I need that you are very insecure. I don't agree with you and your approach and I never will. You may as well save your breath mate. We are two very different kinds of people and that's how I like it. Now learn to accept yourself stop seeking constant approval from other and fuck crying out loud develop some self confidence. Vote UKIP mate. You know you want to You've either got the best troll game I've ever come across, or you're just incredibly, incredibly stupid. I'll make my last point short though just so that you don't get bored reading it. You've said; "You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you"
Again that statement is very contradictory, I've provided evidence it just doesn't fit in with your opinion and you can't just dismiss everything as biased because this isn't the case. You should take a look at what ukcstokie has done and learn a lesson or two from him, although we've clearly got opposing opinions he's put his point across in a respectful manner, which I've listened to because he's making reasoned points that actually have some thought behind them, I haven't just ignored his evidence and rubbished his opinion. It's how debating works when it's done properly. It's impossible to have a reasoned debate with you mate. When you first quoted me it was plane that you came at me with an attitude problem but I tried to be polite. I suggested that we debate like adults and that we respect each other but you soon started with the sarcasm and with the name calling. I shrugged it off at first but then you carry on ignoring what's been said , you twist people's words and you dismiss evidence but you post nonsense and claim it's actually "evidence" when it isn't. If you applied the same standards for everyone I'd happily shrug off the rest of your stupidity but you don't. I won't debate with anyone that doesn't believe in equality. I won't debate with someone that sets different standards for different people and I won't respect anyone that doesn't show me respect also . Respect is a 2 way street. Try looking in the mirror and dealing with your personal issues before you try pointing the finger. I've said this more than once but you will insist on a other long winded reply I'm sure of it. We're best just agreeing to disagree mate . It's really that easy
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 22:23:01 GMT
You've either got the best troll game I've ever come across, or you're just incredibly, incredibly stupid. I'll make my last point short though just so that you don't get bored reading it. You've said; "You have provided no evidence of anything. You post biased surveys and biased articles etc and you ignore the evidence ppresented to you"
Again that statement is very contradictory, I've provided evidence it just doesn't fit in with your opinion and you can't just dismiss everything as biased because this isn't the case. You should take a look at what ukcstokie has done and learn a lesson or two from him, although we've clearly got opposing opinions he's put his point across in a respectful manner, which I've listened to because he's making reasoned points that actually have some thought behind them, I haven't just ignored his evidence and rubbished his opinion. It's how debating works when it's done properly. It's impossible to have a reasoned debate with you mate. When you first quoted me it was plane that you came at me with an attitude problem but I tried to be polite. I suggested that we debate like adults and that we respect each other but you soon started with the sarcasm and with the name calling. I shrugged it off at first but then you carry on ignoring what's been said , you twist people's words and you dismiss evidence but you post nonsense and claim it's actually "evidence" when it isn't. If you applied the same standards for everyone I'd happily shrug off the rest of your stupidity but you don't. I won't debate with anyone that doesn't believe in equality. I won't debate with someone that sets different standards for different people and I won't respect anyone that doesn't show me respect also . Respect is a 2 way street. Try looking in the mirror and dealing with your personal issues before you try pointing the finger. I've said this more than once but you will insist on a other long winded reply I'm sure of it. We're best just agreeing to disagree mate . It's really that easy Laughable nonsense.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 22:25:07 GMT
It's impossible to have a reasoned debate with you mate. When you first quoted me it was plane that you came at me with an attitude problem but I tried to be polite. I suggested that we debate like adults and that we respect each other but you soon started with the sarcasm and with the name calling. I shrugged it off at first but then you carry on ignoring what's been said , you twist people's words and you dismiss evidence but you post nonsense and claim it's actually "evidence" when it isn't. If you applied the same standards for everyone I'd happily shrug off the rest of your stupidity but you don't. I won't debate with anyone that doesn't believe in equality. I won't debate with someone that sets different standards for different people and I won't respect anyone that doesn't show me respect also . Respect is a 2 way street. Try looking in the mirror and dealing with your personal issues before you try pointing the finger. I've said this more than once but you will insist on a other long winded reply I'm sure of it. We're best just agreeing to disagree mate . It's really that easy Laughable nonsense. The truth hurts you doesn't it. Why are you still trying to debate with me. You won't change my mind about a single thing.
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 22:29:22 GMT
The truth hurts you doesn't it. Why are you still trying to debate with me. You won't change my mind about a single thing. I haven't tried to change your mind, I've tried to get you to justify the nonsense you post. Don't worry about it, my work here is done.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 22:31:35 GMT
The truth hurts you doesn't it. Why are you still trying to debate with me. You won't change my mind about a single thing. I haven't tried to change your mind, I've tried to get you to justify the nonsense you post. Don't worry about it, my work here is done. Your work here has been unsuccessful. Bye
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 22:56:11 GMT
Ok so what about the section from the BBC article which you've conveniently ignored. I'm not sure how I've allowed this to happen but I seem to have ended up in dialogue with you! [br I made that same mistake mate Lol. Remind me not to bite in future. Once he gets bored and our little "debate" runs it's course (long overdue) I won't fall for his trolling again
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 23:02:25 GMT
I'm not sure how I've allowed this to happen but I seem to have ended up in dialogue with you! [br I made that same mistake mate Lol. Remind me not to bite in future. Once he gets bored and our little "debate" runs it's course (long overdue) I won't fall for his trolling again You've gone back and 'trawled' through pages to find that quote harry. You are comedy gold
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 23:03:40 GMT
I made that same mistake mate Lol. Remind me not to bite in future. Once he gets bored and our little "debate" runs it's course (long overdue) I won't fall for his trolling again You've gone back and 'trawled' through pages to find that quote harry. You are comedy gold He's back again look lol. I don't mind reading boothens posts mate. He talks sense and can keep debates civil. He doesn't troll people. Unlike you
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 23:10:00 GMT
You've gone back and 'trawled' through pages to find that quote harry. You are comedy gold He's back again look lol. I don't mind reading boothens posts mate. He talks sense and can keep debates civil. He doesn't troll people. Unlike you When I ask for evidence of when I've lied, or twisted words or whatever else you accuse me of doing you can't be bothered. But you can 'trawl' back through the posts to find something else to quote to try and wind me up with. You are priceless harry you really are.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 23:15:19 GMT
He's back again look lol. I don't mind reading boothens posts mate. He talks sense and can keep debates civil. He doesn't troll people. Unlike you When I ask for evidence of when I've lied, or twisted words or whatever else you accuse me of doing you can't be bothered. But you can 'trawl' back through the posts to find something else to quote to try and wind me up with. You are priceless harry you really are. I don't respect you edge potter. Why can't you understand that. If you kept things civil and you didn't abuse people and if you didn't twist people's words but more importantly if you weren't such a hypocrite and you didn't set different standards for different people and things I'd happily trawl though your posts and provide so called "evidence" but once again you are asking for evidence for things that are blatant and right under your nose. I've got a job mate. I work for a living. That's why I don't have the time to keep googling things for you. That's why I tell you to look for yourself. I can't believe I was stupid enough to fall into your troll trap. I should of known better as soon as it was obvious that you were a lefty. I should of just ignored your trolling but oh well I no for next time. Once this "debate" is over you can try n provoke me all you like. Your trolling and silly games won't work twice
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Post by edgepotter on May 5, 2015 23:27:46 GMT
When I ask for evidence of when I've lied, or twisted words or whatever else you accuse me of doing you can't be bothered. But you can 'trawl' back through the posts to find something else to quote to try and wind me up with. You are priceless harry you really are. I don't respect you edge potter. Why can't you understand that. If you kept things civil and you didn't abuse people and if you didn't twist people's words but more importantly if you weren't such a hypocrite and you didn't set different standards for different people and things I'd happily trawl though your posts and provide so called "evidence" but once again you are asking for evidence for things that are blatant and right under your nose. I've got a job mate. I work for a living. That's why I don't have the time to keep googling things for you. That's why I tell you to look for yourself. I can't believe I was stupid enough to fall into your troll trap. I should of known better as soon as it was obvious that you were a lefty. I should of just ignored your trolling but oh well I no for next time. Once this "debate" is over you can try n provoke me all you like. Your trolling and silly games won't work twice Asking for evidence is civil. I think I've been quite patient with you harry. When I've posted 'long posts that you can't be bothered to read' I've made points, asked you questions and asked for evidence. There's nothing more civil than that. You disagree, that's fine we'll both move on. I said I was done earlier, the next post you said 'bye'. I was happy to leave it there but no you had to go 'trawling' back through the pages to find something to try and wind me up with. I'm done debating with you harry, you don't need to post a response we can leave it as it is.
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Post by stokeharry on May 5, 2015 23:40:51 GMT
I don't respect you edge potter. Why can't you understand that. If you kept things civil and you didn't abuse people and if you didn't twist people's words but more importantly if you weren't such a hypocrite and you didn't set different standards for different people and things I'd happily trawl though your posts and provide so called "evidence" but once again you are asking for evidence for things that are blatant and right under your nose. I've got a job mate. I work for a living. That's why I don't have the time to keep googling things for you. That's why I tell you to look for yourself. I can't believe I was stupid enough to fall into your troll trap. I should of known better as soon as it was obvious that you were a lefty. I should of just ignored your trolling but oh well I no for next time. Once this "debate" is over you can try n provoke me all you like. Your trolling and silly games won't work twice Asking for evidence is civil. I think I've been quite patient with you harry. When I've posted 'long posts that you can't be bothered to read' I've made points, asked you questions and asked for evidence. There's nothing more civil than that. You disagree, that's fine we'll both move on. I said I was done earlier, the next post you said 'bye'. I was happy to leave it there but no you had to go 'trawling' back through the pages to find something to try and wind me up with. I'm done debating with you harry, you don't need to post a response we can leave it as it is. I've provided evidence but what is the point when you dismiss anything that doesn't suit your warped agenda. I've told you to do your own research. I'm not doing it for you. Google is your friend The fact that you set different standards for different people instantly makes the debate pointless. Once it became obvious that you side with anything and anyone that isn't white or isn't British even if they are in the wrong I should of walked away like the bigger man which is what I am. Iv been saying for days now that there is no point in continuing out debate but you insist on keep trying to talk to me. Talk to someone else mate because I'm really not interested.
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