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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 16:09:48 GMT
And do some people really believe what they write on here? Woolscheid being better than Huth is a good debate, but we're not good enough to carry the useless lump of a defender some people are describing and beat teams like Southampton.
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Post by Onneravineet on Apr 27, 2015 16:15:33 GMT
Huth for me. Every single time. Wolly is a good lad but he is no Huth. However, I'd select Muniesa ahead of Huth and I think that is the partnership that should start next season. He doesn't stay fit for long enough though, as soon as he starts getting competitive minutes he's back on the treatment table Whilst Huth et al have been relatively injury free I hope now we leave Muniesa out for the remainder of the year and ensure that he starts preseason a fresh and free of any niggles. Hughes has had to patch up the majority of the squad this year due to an unbelievably poor run of bad luck with injuries. Players have undoubtedly played with niggles and injections when it has proven it would have been better to let them sit out. Even our iron man Ryan has been out injured this year, it's just a part of the game. Muniesa's fitness would not deter me from making him a key part of the starting squad.
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Post by Onneravineet on Apr 27, 2015 16:17:50 GMT
Its Wollys first crack at the Prem and he will improve so i would sign him. Bring back the other big German and let him teach the lad. Wollscheid is decent on the ball but Huth is an out an out experienced defender who can school him. He hasn't done too bad but whilst I agree that he will get better he has a fundamental lack of speed that is all too often exposed. He is not fast enough in my opinion and that renders him limited in the Prem. I would not welcome the club following the initial interest with his signing.
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Post by shrewspotter on Apr 27, 2015 16:49:35 GMT
To put the stats into some context, I remember reading that Paolo Maldini had a really low tackles per game due to his superior reading of the game. The main stat that matters in my mind is that we are a superior team in terms of points since Huth has been out the team. In my opinion it is down to having somebody less agressive next to Shawcross, giving the team a better blend of styles. I know what you are trying to say, but Wollscheid is no Paulo Maldini, more like a poor man's Keith Curle is a better comparison
Seriously I think Huth is better, but if LMH doesn't trust Huth, then he needs to look elsewhere to reconsider Muniesa
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Post by AlliG on Apr 27, 2015 18:53:09 GMT
I think the folks on here hoping for a renewal of the Ryan / Huth partnership next season don't listen properly to Mark Hughes' post match interviews.
He still thinks we don't play out from the back enough and slip in to "longball" mode too easily.
If Robert is still here next season it will be as back up to Ryan and not as his partner.
I grew up on 2 "stopper" central defenders in Smith and Bloor and a great partnership they were too (especially in the Cups or when the chips were down).
However, the "best" Stoke league team I have seen was the 1974/75 team; a season where Bluto only played 2 games due to a serious knee injury when "stopper" Denis was partnered with Alan Dodd a ball playing defender. Listening to Mark Hughes, that is where he is looking to go.
The days of 2 "stopper" defenders at Stoke will not return (except in an emergency) while Mark Hughes is manager.
Who the partner for Ryan should be is a different question, but, ideally he should be quicker than Ryan rather than slower, as the way Mark Hughes wants to play will leave us more exposed at the back and the two will need to be comfortable being left one on one against the likes of Benteke etc.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 27, 2015 19:00:54 GMT
Ickle Muni being the best tackler.....who da thunk it!
We know Ryan is so more dominant in the air but it's amazing seeing it quantitatively just how much better he is.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 19:04:05 GMT
I think the folks on here hoping for a renewal of the Ryan / Huth partnership next season don't listen properly to Mark Hughes' post match interviews. He still thinks we don't play out from the back enough and slip in to "longball" mode too easily.If Robert is still here next season it will be as back up to Ryan and not as his partner. I grew up on 2 "stopper" central defenders in Smith and Bloor and a great partnership they were too (especially in the Cups or when the chips were down). However, the "best" Stoke league team I have seen was the 1974/75 team; a season where Bluto only played 2 games due to a serious knee injury when "stopper" Denis was partnered with Alan Dodd a ball playing defender. Listening to Mark Hughes, that is where he is looking to go. The days of 2 "stopper" defenders at Stoke will not return (except in an emergency) while Mark Hughes is manager. Who the partner for Ryan should be is a different question, but, ideally he should be quicker than Ryan rather than slower, as the way Mark Hughes wants to play will leave us more exposed at the back and the two will need to be comfortable being left one on one against the likes of Benteke etc. If that's the case then Hughes better upgrade the midfield. We need a better DM who can play a bit and doesn't panic under pressure. Uncle Pete, you better get that cheque book out mate cos' this one will sting a bit!
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 27, 2015 19:08:40 GMT
Starting to think Muniesa is on rest until Singapore or next season like Bojan and Wollschied has the remainder of the season to sell himself to Hughes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 21:02:50 GMT
To put the stats into some context, I remember reading that Paolo Maldini had a really low tackles per game due to his superior reading of the game. The main stat that matters in my mind is that we are a superior team in terms of points since Huth has been out the team. In my opinion it is down to having somebody less agressive next to Shawcross, giving the team a better blend of styles. I know what you are trying to say, but Wollscheid is no Paulo Maldini, more like a poor man's Keith Curle is a better comparison
Seriously I think Huth is better, but if LMH doesn't trust Huth, then he needs to look elsewhere to reconsider Muniesa
He's no Maldini of course. My only real point is our league position has not suffered from him being in the team and we aren't good enough to carry an awful centre back so he's got to be at least worth considering if the transfer fee is small, which I suspect it is. I think we've been really clever with this situation, we have got Huth game without risking our league position. Hughes still has to make the choice between Huth, Wollscheid or someone else, but he/the club have engineered a situation where he has a lot of evidence to influence his decision. Another consideration not really talked about is wages. I read Huth was on 40000 a week. If true, then looking for a cheaper alternative, especially if Hughes sees Muniesa and Wilson above him, or better choices due to age seems wise to me. I have no idea what Wollscheid is on, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility it's a lot less than Huth, given the wages Middlesbrough will pissing away at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 21:08:08 GMT
I know what you are trying to say, but Wollscheid is no Paulo Maldini, more like a poor man's Keith Curle is a better comparison
Seriously I think Huth is better, but if LMH doesn't trust Huth, then he needs to look elsewhere to reconsider Muniesa
He's no Maldini of course. My only real point is our league position has not suffered from him being in the team and we aren't good enough to carry an awful centre back so he's got to be at least worth considering if the transfer fee is small, which I suspect it is. I think we've been really clever with this situation, we have got Huth game without risking our league position. Hughes still has to make the choice between Huth, Wollscheid or someone else, but he/the club have engineered a situation where he has a lot of evidence to influence his decision. Another consideration not really talked about is wages. I read Huth was on 40000 a week. If true, then looking for a cheaper alternative, especially if Hughes sees Muniesa and Wilson above him, or better choices due to age seems wise to me. I have no idea what Wollscheid is on, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility it's a lot less than Huth, given the wages Middlesbrough will pissing away at the time. 49k a week allegedly! www.celebritiesmoney.com/philipp-wollscheid-salary-net-worth-defence-centre-back-of-1-fsv-mainz-05/
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 27, 2015 21:10:39 GMT
I think the folks on here hoping for a renewal of the Ryan / Huth partnership next season don't listen properly to Mark Hughes' post match interviews. He still thinks we don't play out from the back enough and slip in to "longball" mode too easily. If Robert is still here next season it will be as back up to Ryan and not as his partner. I grew up on 2 "stopper" central defenders in Smith and Bloor and a great partnership they were too (especially in the Cups or when the chips were down). However, the "best" Stoke league team I have seen was the 1974/75 team; a season where Bluto only played 2 games due to a serious knee injury when "stopper" Denis was partnered with Alan Dodd a ball playing defender. Listening to Mark Hughes, that is where he is looking to go. The days of 2 "stopper" defenders at Stoke will not return (except in an emergency) while Mark Hughes is manager. Who the partner for Ryan should be is a different question, but, ideally he should be quicker than Ryan rather than slower, as the way Mark Hughes wants to play will leave us more exposed at the back and the two will need to be comfortable being left one on one against the likes of Benteke etc. Step forward Marc Muniesa then, because Huth can do everything that Wollschied can do and a whole lot more besides.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 21:14:04 GMT
He's no Maldini of course. My only real point is our league position has not suffered from him being in the team and we aren't good enough to carry an awful centre back so he's got to be at least worth considering if the transfer fee is small, which I suspect it is. I think we've been really clever with this situation, we have got Huth game without risking our league position. Hughes still has to make the choice between Huth, Wollscheid or someone else, but he/the club have engineered a situation where he has a lot of evidence to influence his decision. Another consideration not really talked about is wages. I read Huth was on 40000 a week. If true, then looking for a cheaper alternative, especially if Hughes sees Muniesa and Wilson above him, or better choices due to age seems wise to me. I have no idea what Wollscheid is on, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility it's a lot less than Huth, given the wages Middlesbrough will pissing away at the time. 49k a week allegedly! www.celebritiesmoney.com/philipp-wollscheid-salary-net-worth-defence-centre-back-of-1-fsv-mainz-05/Wow. If true then he's earned an awful lot of money without cementing a first team place in Germany.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 27, 2015 21:19:06 GMT
He's no Maldini of course. My only real point is our league position has not suffered from him being in the team and we aren't good enough to carry an awful centre back so he's got to be at least worth considering if the transfer fee is small, which I suspect it is. I think we've been really clever with this situation, we have got Huth game without risking our league position. Hughes still has to make the choice between Huth, Wollscheid or someone else, but he/the club have engineered a situation where he has a lot of evidence to influence his decision. Another consideration not really talked about is wages. I read Huth was on 40000 a week. If true, then looking for a cheaper alternative, especially if Hughes sees Muniesa and Wilson above him, or better choices due to age seems wise to me. I have no idea what Wollscheid is on, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility it's a lot less than Huth, given the wages Middlesbrough will pissing away at the time. 49k a week allegedly! www.celebritiesmoney.com/philipp-wollscheid-salary-net-worth-defence-centre-back-of-1-fsv-mainz-05/It may well have changed but Huth has been one of our higher earners since signing his last new contract. If Hughes doesn't fancy him then it makes sense to offload him and I've long been of the opinion that the departures of Adam, Huth and Palacios, 3 high earners Hughes doesn't fancy or trust to play regularly + Crouch's likely reduction in wages with his new contract, will free up some vital resource that will see the Manager given a bit of a war chest this summer. However, if Wollschied is really on similar or more than Huth (I was lead to believe that Huth's wages were closer to the 50k per week mark that Crouch arrived on), then he becomes even less worth a permanent deal in my opinion. I think there are some very serious question marks about Wollschied. He isn't quick, he isn't particularly strong, his distribution is no better than Wilson's and his temperament appears suspect as well. We have better in our ranks already and there is most likely better out there should we want to bring in a new centre half.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 28, 2015 9:44:22 GMT
He's no Maldini of course. My only real point is our league position has not suffered from him being in the team and we aren't good enough to carry an awful centre back so he's got to be at least worth considering if the transfer fee is small, which I suspect it is. I think we've been really clever with this situation, we have got Huth game without risking our league position. Hughes still has to make the choice between Huth, Wollscheid or someone else, but he/the club have engineered a situation where he has a lot of evidence to influence his decision. Another consideration not really talked about is wages. I read Huth was on 40000 a week. If true, then looking for a cheaper alternative, especially if Hughes sees Muniesa and Wilson above him, or better choices due to age seems wise to me. I have no idea what Wollscheid is on, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility it's a lot less than Huth, given the wages Middlesbrough will pissing away at the time. 49k a week allegedly! www.celebritiesmoney.com/philipp-wollscheid-salary-net-worth-defence-centre-back-of-1-fsv-mainz-05/Anyone still think he's a cheap option and worth "a punt"?
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 28, 2015 10:11:53 GMT
I think I'm slowly moving over to the 'thanks but no thanks' camp with Wolly. His good points (he reads the game well and I think his distribution is better than Wilson's) are being outweighed by his bad ones and if he's on £49,000 a week I am shocked that we might be paying that for a player who really has divided opinion as he has.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 10:29:44 GMT
Anyone still think he's a cheap option and worth "a punt"? I've been sitting on that info since he signed mate. The first question in my head, before I'd even seen him play, was why replace Huth once Bowen admitted there were no doubts over his mid to long term fitness? 2+2 had me guessing that Huth was on around 40k, Bundesliga players are rumoured to be on much less and it was all part of the belt tightening. Assuming that information is correct, then my theory has been hoofed into Row Z.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 28, 2015 10:47:26 GMT
Huth for me, look how Leicester have improved since he went there. Having said that, we are now a top half Premiership side and need to bring in better than both Huth and Wooly.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 28, 2015 10:55:17 GMT
Anyone still think he's a cheap option and worth "a punt"? I've been sitting on that info since he signed mate. The first question in my head, before I'd even seen him play, was why replace Huth once Bowen admitted there were no doubts over his mid to long term fitness? 2+2 had me guessing that Huth was on around 40k, Bundesliga players are rumoured to be on much less and it was all part of the belt tightening. Assuming that information is correct, then my theory has been hoofed into Row Z. It's a bit of a head fuck is that mate. As you say you felt he might be a cheap option but his wages could be the reason he's been bombed out from his parent club.
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Post by sergeifaye on Apr 28, 2015 17:41:23 GMT
I haven't seen Wollscheid that much over 90 mins but I've always thought from a purely defensive point of view you'd pick Huth but technically Wollscheid is streets ahead.
Having said that get Sergei Shtaniuk back!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 22:12:37 GMT
Jesus Christ, just watched match of the day - he was bloody awful !!
Bring back Wilson.
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Post by daveypotter on Apr 29, 2015 22:22:31 GMT
Players salaries are just pure speculation and I'm sure it's only the MLS that publish those sorts of things
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Post by bertiestan on Apr 29, 2015 22:32:39 GMT
Jesus Christ, just watched match of the day - he was bloody awful !! Bring back Wilson. He was that bad it's fuckin hilarious, a meltdown of epic proportions.
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Post by hanibal7 on Apr 30, 2015 6:19:21 GMT
Huth went off with what looked like an ankle injusy last night, and a very innoculous one too,so hopew he is ok
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Post by vahl on Apr 30, 2015 8:23:54 GMT
I think Wolly is an adequate defender. He fits well, he reads the game pretty good and he is technically sound. He should be told to sit and watch a load of John Terry DVD's (football ones, not porn ) and learn how to develop his game around his lack of pace though. He's so slow.
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Post by potternation on Apr 30, 2015 8:49:32 GMT
Huth by an absolute mile! Wolly is so slow it scares me and he doesn't seem as confident on the ball as Huth. Really don't rate him at all!
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Post by slpmarc on Apr 30, 2015 10:05:46 GMT
Wolly is not on £65k a week, that article is pure boll***s Huth when he signed was on £48k at Middlesborough whether He took a cut in wage to come to stoke I don't know, and the rest of his shortfall made up by either Middlesborough or bonus payments. Huth is one of our top earners and has earned that too, but not being in Hughes plans it's a wage that could do with being removed of the wage bill
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Post by nott1 on Apr 30, 2015 10:22:06 GMT
Wolly is not on £65k a week, that article is pure boll***s Huth when he signed was on £48k at Middlesborough whether He took a cut in wage to come to stoke I don't know, and the rest of his shortfall made up by either Middlesborough or bonus payments. Huth is one of our top earners and has earned that too, but not being in Hughes plans it's a wage that could do with being removed of the wage bill Do you know for certain that Huth is not wanted? If not then we can certainly do better than Wolly, who I hope is certainly NOT NOW in Hughes plans!
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 30, 2015 10:29:38 GMT
Wolly is not on £65k a week, that article is pure boll***s Huth when he signed was on £48k at Middlesborough whether He took a cut in wage to come to stoke I don't know, and the rest of his shortfall made up by either Middlesborough or bonus payments. Huth is one of our top earners and has earned that too, but not being in Hughes plans it's a wage that could do with being removed of the wage bill To be honest, Marc after the displays of petulance from him we've witnessed, I for one won't be arsed about signing him no matter how much he was on.
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Post by slpmarc on Apr 30, 2015 10:37:00 GMT
Wolly is not on £65k a week, that article is pure boll***s Huth when he signed was on £48k at Middlesborough whether He took a cut in wage to come to stoke I don't know, and the rest of his shortfall made up by either Middlesborough or bonus payments. Huth is one of our top earners and has earned that too, but not being in Hughes plans it's a wage that could do with being removed of the wage bill Do you know for certain that Huth is not wanted? If not then we can certainly do better than Wolly, who I hope is certainly NOT NOW in Hughes plans! Think it's unfair to compare Huth to Wolly, both played under 2 different managers with 2 different set ups. The only time Huth played under Hughes was in the cup and he was shocking by far worse than any of the performances Wolly has done recently. Fans say Wolly is slow on the turn, he is I agree but so is Huth, but that was never found out due to Pulis system of having 2 deep lying banks of 4. All defending was infron of the defence and that part of the game Wolly is excellent at just as Huth is. I see Hughes agreeing the deal for Wolly but also looking at a different kind of defender too. The club needs to move on and improve the whole squad each year as the older players come to the end of there season. It was the same as Diouf when he came he had the same he ain't no Fuller is he, look at fuller now, relegated with Millwall but some stoke fans still would have him over Diouf, a player who has out scored fuller in the premier league in a single season while playing most of the time on the wing. We need to stop comparing players from previous seasons with the ones this season as circumstances changes and know one can say whether the older players would of done better or worse
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 30, 2015 10:44:43 GMT
Do you know for certain that Huth is not wanted? If not then we can certainly do better than Wolly, who I hope is certainly NOT NOW in Hughes plans! The only time Huth played under Hughes was in the cup and he was shocking by far worse than any of the performances Wolly has done recently. There hasn't been a worse performance than Wooly's on Saturday in the Premier League era.
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