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Post by Gods on Apr 24, 2015 11:26:48 GMT
Just thought I'd see what it sounded like.
I haven't seen a poll for 6 weeks now which doesn't have the Conservatives as the largest party by a fraction from Labour. But in every instance Labour plus the Scottish Nationalists is larger than the Conservatives plus say the Lib Dems or anyone else they might drum up to support them
Nicola Sturgeon made it clear yesterday that the SNP will prop up a minority Labour Government if it keeps the Conservatives out. And Ed Milliband carefully choosing his words each time he is asked to say Labour would not support an "Alliance" with the SNP which is political speak for they absolutely will get in to bed with them on a vote by vote basis if that is what it takes.
So unless something gives that is what we will have in fewer than 2 weeks time IMHO.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 24, 2015 11:38:07 GMT
I think its certain there will be no formal coalition so there will be no SNP members in Government at all, let alone as Deputy PM.
In any case why is the concern greater than a Tory Government being propped up the DUP pushing for a greater settlement for NI or a Tory government propped up by a few UKIP MP's and shouting at France from the cliffs of Dover?
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 24, 2015 12:17:01 GMT
I think its certain there will be no formal coalition so there will be no SNP members in Government at all, let alone as Deputy PM. In any case why is the concern greater than a Tory Government being propped up the DUP pushing for a greater settlement for NI or a Tory government propped up by a few UKIP MP's and shouting at France from the cliffs of Dover? Perhaps because the SNP don't give a f@ k for the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland?  |
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Post by craig67 on Apr 24, 2015 12:21:46 GMT
I think its certain there will be no formal coalition so there will be no SNP members in Government at all, let alone as Deputy PM. In any case why is the concern greater than a Tory Government being propped up the DUP pushing for a greater settlement for NI or a Tory government propped up by a few UKIP MP's and shouting at France from the cliffs of Dover? Perhaps because the SNP don't give a f@ k for the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland? And the DUP will care for who? |
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 24, 2015 12:28:41 GMT
Perhaps because the SNP don't give a f@ k for the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland? And the DUP will care for who? I was more replying to Momo's reference to UKIP - but as you raise the point, if you want to stay within a union (as the DUP apparently do) it follows that you give a care for the other components doesn't it? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 13:23:38 GMT
Read my posts...
GRAND COALLITION..... Lab/Con...
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Post by Nick1984 on Apr 24, 2015 14:39:43 GMT
I'd be on the first boat to Libya if that happens.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 24, 2015 17:45:38 GMT
If Tories gain the most votes but not a majority then they will get the first dibs on forming a government be it a minority or majority coalition. IMO I can't see Miliband winning because of the number of seats he is predicted to lose to SNP in Scotland and I think Tories will get back in with small majority. The unknown is where the predicted loss of Lib Dem seats will fall and will it be enough to bolster the labour losses in Scotland.
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Post by starkiller on Apr 24, 2015 18:50:09 GMT
I think its certain there will be no formal coalition so there will be no SNP members in Government at all, let alone as Deputy PM. In any case why is the concern greater than a Tory Government being propped up the DUP pushing for a greater settlement for NI or a Tory government propped up by a few UKIP MP's and shouting at France from the cliffs of Dover? Perhaps because the SNP don't give a f@ k for the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland? You actually believe the other parties do? |
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Post by kbillyh on Apr 24, 2015 19:39:19 GMT
Imagine having to resort to using negative stereotypes and playing on the fears of the electorate in order to gain votes, like that's all they have left in the locker.
Pretty fucking low in my opinion.
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Post by basingstokie on Apr 25, 2015 20:01:04 GMT
If we accept the OP's conclusion, which does seem most likely, then I presume the Conservatives + Lib Dem & poss UKIP would try and form a minority Government. They will fail because Labour and SNP will vote down the Queen's Speech, at which point DC has no choice but to call another election.
Miliband has stated directly that he will not buddy up with SNP under any circumstances, so assuming he is true to his word, a Labour minority Government would be even more of a minority than Tory + others Government.
Basically, if SNP get 40-50 seats, neither of the main parties is likely to be able to form a majority Government whoever they buddy up with and SNP have said 'blanket no' to Tories, while being told 'blanket no' from Labour.
Sturgeon/SNP will therefore have caused Governmental chaos at which point it will become clear that the only way out of the mess is to remove the SNP MP's - by granting Scotland independence, which is what SNP want all along.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 20:16:04 GMT
The conservatives are washed up....this one is labours......RIP Great Britain
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Post by boothenboy75 on Apr 25, 2015 20:38:25 GMT
If we accept the OP's conclusion, which does seem most likely, then I presume the Conservatives + Lib Dem & poss UKIP would try and form a minority Government. They will fail because Labour and SNP will vote down the Queen's Speech, at which point DC has no choice but to call another election. Miliband has stated directly that he will not buddy up with SNP under any circumstances, so assuming he is true to his word, a Labour minority Government would be even more of a minority than Tory + others Government. Basically, if SNP get 40-50 seats, neither of the main parties is likely to be able to form a majority Government whoever they buddy up with and SNP have said 'blanket no' to Tories, while being told 'blanket no' from Labour. Sturgeon/SNP will therefore have caused Governmental chaos at which point it will become clear that the only way out of the mess is to remove the SNP MP's - by granting Scotland independence, which is what SNP want all along. The only problem with that is that should Labour form a minority government, the ball would be even further within the SNP court. Even if Milibund is true to his word, then the SNP could play along with the British parliament at will. The fixed parliament act would mean that they could bring down the UK government at will at a time of their choosing. Labour or no other UK party would have a say in the matter, unless enough labour MP's vote down their own Queen's speech. |
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Post by boothenboy75 on Apr 25, 2015 20:43:05 GMT
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Post by basingstokie on Apr 26, 2015 13:28:16 GMT
If we accept the OP's conclusion, which does seem most likely, then I presume the Conservatives + Lib Dem & poss UKIP would try and form a minority Government. They will fail because Labour and SNP will vote down the Queen's Speech, at which point DC has no choice but to call another election. Miliband has stated directly that he will not buddy up with SNP under any circumstances, so assuming he is true to his word, a Labour minority Government would be even more of a minority than Tory + others Government. Basically, if SNP get 40-50 seats, neither of the main parties is likely to be able to form a majority Government whoever they buddy up with and SNP have said 'blanket no' to Tories, while being told 'blanket no' from Labour. Sturgeon/SNP will therefore have caused Governmental chaos at which point it will become clear that the only way out of the mess is to remove the SNP MP's - by granting Scotland independence, which is what SNP want all along. The only problem with that is that should Labour form a minority government, the ball would be even further within the SNP court. Even if Milibund is true to his word, then the SNP could play along with the British parliament at will. The fixed parliament act would mean that they could bring down the UK government at will at a time of their choosing. Labour or no other UK party would have a say in the matter, unless enough labour MP's vote down their own Queen's speech. A terrible situation you describe there. I wonder if in such a situation Miliband and Cameron would buddy up on key Bullard matters (the budget) to defeat the SNP - my enemy's enemy is my friend style logic |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 26, 2015 13:55:40 GMT
It's an outrage. A couple of political parties using their democratic right to form a coalition. How can we stop this, we can't let this happen!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 14:00:30 GMT
There is no democracy in this country
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Post by desman2 on Apr 26, 2015 14:32:54 GMT
There is no democracy in this country And no truer definition than having some woman who isnt even standing as a candidate anywhere dictating whats she and her party of miscreants are going to do to fuck everyone else (including labour). |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 26, 2015 18:09:31 GMT
I assume the Telegraph is as shocked about the DUP going into a coalition with the Tories, as they surely will if given a chance? |
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Post by boothenboy75 on Apr 26, 2015 18:22:54 GMT
I assume the Telegraph is as shocked about the DUP going into a coalition with the Tories, as they surely will if given a chance? Maybe. The difference is the DUP's ultimate aim isn't the break up of the United Kingdom, so one might assume that they will, despite doing the best for their constituents, have the best interests of their/our country at heart? |
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Post by slicko on Apr 26, 2015 18:45:41 GMT
Ed Milliband gave Boris Johnson a mauling on the Andrew Marr show this morning.
A scary prospect that when Cameron steps down soon, the bumbling fool is likely to be leading their party. He's currently well out of his depth and not a leader.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Apr 27, 2015 7:16:48 GMT
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Post by Northy on Apr 27, 2015 9:33:18 GMT
Wibble
Sent from my SM-G850F using proboards
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 27, 2015 9:56:10 GMT
SNP are offering to change the way politics is done - similar to what UKIP and the Greens and every other protest party are doing. If you want a change from the norm, you have to cause a nightmare for those running the norm. If you believe that the current system is broken, then I'm not sure why anyone would have problems with a party causing a nightmare in Westminster. |
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Post by desman2 on Apr 27, 2015 11:40:50 GMT
SNP are offering to change the way politics is done - similar to what UKIP and the Greens and every other protest party are doing. If you want a change from the norm, you have to cause a nightmare for those running the norm. If you believe that the current system is broken, then I'm not sure why anyone would have problems with a party causing a nightmare in Westminster. We had an option to change that by referendum a few years ago and it got hijacked |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 11:42:40 GMT
If we accept the OP's conclusion, which does seem most likely, then I presume the Conservatives + Lib Dem & poss UKIP would try and form a minority Government. They will fail because Labour and SNP will vote down the Queen's Speech, at which point DC has no choice but to call another election. Miliband has stated directly that he will not buddy up with SNP under any circumstances, so assuming he is true to his word, a Labour minority Government would be even more of a minority than Tory + others Government. Basically, if SNP get 40-50 seats, neither of the main parties is likely to be able to form a majority Government whoever they buddy up with and SNP have said 'blanket no' to Tories, while being told 'blanket no' from Labour. Sturgeon/SNP will therefore have caused Governmental chaos at which point it will become clear that the only way out of the mess is to remove the SNP MP's - by granting Scotland independence, which is what SNP want all along. Very good point, and well made. What would cause chaos is if in say 2 years the Jocks voted again for independence and won, which is almost a dead cert, then would the SNP MP's be removed from Westminster. |
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Post by basingstokie on Apr 27, 2015 11:57:31 GMT
If we accept the OP's conclusion, which does seem most likely, then I presume the Conservatives + Lib Dem & poss UKIP would try and form a minority Government. They will fail because Labour and SNP will vote down the Queen's Speech, at which point DC has no choice but to call another election. Miliband has stated directly that he will not buddy up with SNP under any circumstances, so assuming he is true to his word, a Labour minority Government would be even more of a minority than Tory + others Government. Basically, if SNP get 40-50 seats, neither of the main parties is likely to be able to form a majority Government whoever they buddy up with and SNP have said 'blanket no' to Tories, while being told 'blanket no' from Labour. Sturgeon/SNP will therefore have caused Governmental chaos at which point it will become clear that the only way out of the mess is to remove the SNP MP's - by granting Scotland independence, which is what SNP want all along. Very good point, and well made. What would cause chaos is if in say 2 years the Jocks voted again for independence and won, which is almost a dead cert, then would the SNP MP's be removed from Westminster. Both main parties have said no new independence vote for a generation I believe. But they may have no choice with the SNP throwing their weight around in Westminster &, although they may not publically admit it, may be quite pleased to get rid of the SNP via a yes vote (which would obviously lead to all Scottish MP's losing their seats). Labour are much weaker than Tories in England and Wales alone, so would have to move to the right, politically, in order to give themselves a realistic chance of being elected in the future. Although I'm not sure a yes vote is guaranteed in a new referendum. My logic being, if we assume all yes voters in the referendum vote for SNP and all the no voters vote for someone else. SNP may well not get 50% of the overall vote (or 50% in any constituency), but the pro union vote is split between Tory, Labour, Lib Dem/Whoever and therefore this lets the SNP in. |
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 27, 2015 15:08:47 GMT
Very good point, and well made. What would cause chaos is if in say 2 years the Jocks voted again for independence and won, which is almost a dead cert, then would the SNP MP's be removed from Westminster. Both main parties have said no new independence vote for a generation I believe. But they may have no choice with the SNP throwing their weight around in Westminster &, although they may not publically admit it, may be quite pleased to get rid of the SNP via a yes vote (which would obviously lead to all Scottish MP's losing their seats). Labour are much weaker than Tories in England and Wales alone, so would have to move to the right, politically, in order to give themselves a realistic chance of being elected in the future. Although I'm not sure a yes vote is guaranteed in a new referendum. My logic being, if we assume all yes voters in the referendum vote for SNP and all the no voters vote for someone else. SNP may well not get 50% of the overall vote (or 50% in any constituency), but the pro union vote is split between Tory, Labour, Lib Dem/Whoever and therefore this lets the SNP in. The SNP have a quandary on another referendum. Of course they'd like another one - but they lost decisively a few months back and a quick repeat could backfire; the "Neverendum" word will get thrown at them and they know that is likely to convert undecided and tentative Yes into the No camp. A second referendum defeat on a bigger scale would be disastrous for the SNP. I dont think they'll risk it - without very good reason such as an EU referendum taking the UK out of Europe which saw a significant percentage of Scotland voting to stay in. Can't think of another one. Don't confuse the current support for the SNP with a surge in nationalist fervour. It's much more to do with disillusionment with Labour and respect for what is perceived (correctly IMO) as a competent SNP administration in Holyrood. |
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Post by boothenboy75 on Apr 27, 2015 18:54:18 GMT
SNP are offering to change the way politics is done - similar to what UKIP and the Greens and every other protest party are doing. If you want a change from the norm, you have to cause a nightmare for those running the norm. If you believe that the current system is broken, then I'm not sure why anyone would have problems with a party causing a nightmare in Westminster. What the SNP are offering is completely different from UKIP & the Greens. Sure some policies are the same (with the Greens anyway), but the end game and their hopes for chaos are nothing like what any other party are offering. I must admit, I find Sturgeon a good politician and if I were a jock with a socialist attitude I'm sure I'd vote for her. Seeing as I'm neither though, I'd prefer she kept the chaos in Scotland, and didn't damage the futures of me and my kids. Wanting change isn't the same as wanting chaos. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 18:58:45 GMT
SNP are offering to change the way politics is done - similar to what UKIP and the Greens and every other protest party are doing. If you want a change from the norm, you have to cause a nightmare for those running the norm. If you believe that the current system is broken, then I'm not sure why anyone would have problems with a party causing a nightmare in Westminster. What the SNP are offering is completely different from UKIP & the Greens. Sure some policies are the same (with the Greens anyway), but the end game and their hopes for chaos are nothing like what any other party are offering. I must admit, I find Sturgeon a good politician and if I were a jock with a socialist attitude I'm sure I'd vote for her. Seeing as I'm neither though, I'd prefer she kept the chaos in Scotland, and didn't damage the futures of me and my kids. Wanting change isn't the same as wanting chaos. She is by far the best politician the Scots have produced in a very long time . A very honest and fair appraisal . The SNP will slaughter the rest . |
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