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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 20, 2015 16:02:00 GMT
I am merely pointing out that professionals inside the game and club have said such things about Whelan. Whether you or I agree doesn't matter. I'm merely pointing it out to you. To be honest, as much as I like Whelan, whenever he receives the ball in our half facing our goal, I have a mild panic attack because he isn't the best in that situation, in my opinion. That said, I like him as a player, he's more than good enough to play in a team with aspirations such as ours and he has more good games than bad ones in my opinion. I still think we can do significantly better in his position. Though if an unnamed coach said he was the most technical player at the club then it must be true. It's not an unnamed coach. I just can't remember whether it was Kempo or Mark O'Connor, hence I didn't quote who.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 20, 2015 16:05:38 GMT
No offence, but Top 6? Since when has that been an objective? If we were to finish 7th, we will have effectively won the league. 7th is the very best we can hope for. In one season, in our current guise (ownership, stadium, income, spending capacity etc) we will never do enough to overcome each and everyone of Manure, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham and Everton. We might hurdle one of them, every now and then, if they happen to have a poor season but the chances of us doing it consistently are slim to non-existant as things stand. What do we need to finish 7th? Circa 60 points? Give us players of the calibre of Bojan, Moses, Odemwingie, Arnie, N'zonzi etc, fit and firing throughout the bulk of the season and a team also including Whelan could push for that spot. Achieve it and we've won the league.
I thought the manager was on about pushing on. Is it an objective? A steep one if so. More like an aspiration. One minute you say there is little between a side that will finish 5th or 6th, now you're intimating it's unrealistic to expect to compete with them.
By the way, anyone can look technically proficient on the training pitch, like you say when he gets the ball and is pressured it's panic stations.
Southampton will not finish 5th or 6th. Chelsea, Manure, Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham will all finish ahead of them, hence they will finish 7th, which is ultimately what I said with regard to Whelan. If we hope to finish 5th or 6th, then we will need significant investment and every single penny will need to be invested wisely with a 100% success rate. 6th or above is an absolute pipe dream and it is unfair to judge our players by some crazy expectation that this is where we could hope to be in terms of league standings. 7th is the pinnacle for a club such as ours and Southampton. We might flirt with higher positions for a while but ultimately to hurdle 1 of the big 7 is a big ask. To leapfrog 2 or 3 of them will be nigh on impossible.
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Post by foster on Apr 20, 2015 16:09:58 GMT
I judge Whelan by how he fares compared to our other players.
For someone who is a starter, I think we should have better.
Same applies for other positions(Eg RB) not under discussion in this thread.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 20, 2015 16:14:37 GMT
I judge Whelan by how he fares compared to our other players. For someone who is a starter, I think we should have better. Same applies for other positions(Eg RB) not under discussion in this thread. How does he fare compared to other players? He's a better player, a more effective player or a more consistent player than most alternatives within the Stoke City squad. He's was up there amongst our top performers last season and he's up there again this season. Replace him with better? Absolutely. It won't be as easy as some of you would have us believe as around 25m already spent trying to do so proves.
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Post by nott1 on Apr 20, 2015 17:44:29 GMT
I judge Whelan by how he fares compared to our other players. For someone who is a starter, I think we should have better. Same applies for other positions(Eg RB) not under discussion in this thread. How does he fare compared to other players? He's a better player, a more effective player or a more consistent player than most alternatives within the Stoke City squad. He's was up there amongst our top performers last season and he's up there again this season. Replace him with better? Absolutely. It won't be as easy as some of you would have us believe as around 25m already spent trying to do so proves. We haven't spent a lot e.g Sidwell.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 20, 2015 17:48:05 GMT
I still think we can do significantly better in his position. Though if an unnamed coach said he was the most technical player at the club then it must be true. It's not an unnamed coach. I just can't remember whether it was Kempo or Mark O'Connor, hence I didn't quote who. Fuck me, Kempo or O'Connor. The Laurel and Hardy of coaching.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Apr 20, 2015 18:13:05 GMT
Glenn Whelan owes us nothing and in value for money signings he has to be the best the club have ever made.
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Post by upthefud on Apr 20, 2015 18:52:10 GMT
I agree with Dave here, a lot of money would need to be spent on us effectively replacing Whelan. Not impossible but due to our budget it'd be daft for us to target his position as one to replace.
So much of the mental side of football is overlooked. Not only would we need to replace his defensive discipline but his experience and total professionalism as well. He's the vice captain and one of the most respected players in the team.
People on here love technical players with flair, but it's the likes of Walters and Whelan that are equally as important in the make-up of a top team.
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Post by potterglen on Apr 20, 2015 19:00:42 GMT
Yes I know he's just signed a new contract but he's been poor of late and correctly hooked early in the last two games. Is the manager losing patience with him? With Palacios out of the door, I'm certain one of our major pieces of business will be in Glenda's position. Can he prove everybody wrong one more time? Perhaps we need to think before we start threads like this, Soton were masters at closing players down in numbers and made it difficult for everyone to hold on to the ball. Whelan was under a massive amount of pressure and, like every player on the pitch, put a few stray passes in. For me, Saturday was a game of two styles and on this occasion we won. There are some who think we didn't play well, I beg to differ. We put 2 goals past the best defence in the PL through graft and determination and in fact the score could (and should) have been 4. Whelan isn't the only player of late not to put in a quality performance yet we still sing about Super Jon and have given a 2 year contract to the player who missed a sitter - such is football.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 20, 2015 20:02:04 GMT
Yes I know he's just signed a new contract but he's been poor of late and correctly hooked early in the last two games. Is the manager losing patience with him? With Palacios out of the door, I'm certain one of our major pieces of business will be in Glenda's position. Can he prove everybody wrong one more time? Perhaps we need to think before we start threads like this, Soton were masters at closing players down in numbers and made it difficult for everyone to hold on to the ball. Whelan was under a massive amount of pressure and, like every player on the pitch, put a few stray passes in. For me, Saturday was a game of two styles and on this occasion we won. There are some who think we didn't play well, I beg to differ. We put 2 goals past the best defence in the PL through graft and determination and in fact the score could (and should) have been 4. Whelan isn't the only player of late not to put in a quality performance yet we still sing about Super Jon and have given a 2 year contract to the player who missed a sitter - such is football. I wasn't giving a strong opinion on him to be honest, its just not usual to see your defensive midfield lynchpin taken off early in successive weeks. Just wondered if his performances were irking the manager to some degree?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 21:13:55 GMT
Perhaps we need to think before we start threads like this, Soton were masters at closing players down in numbers and made it difficult for everyone to hold on to the ball. Whelan was under a massive amount of pressure and, like every player on the pitch, put a few stray passes in. For me, Saturday was a game of two styles and on this occasion we won. There are some who think we didn't play well, I beg to differ. We put 2 goals past the best defence in the PL through graft and determination and in fact the score could (and should) have been 4. Whelan isn't the only player of late not to put in a quality performance yet we still sing about Super Jon and have given a 2 year contract to the player who missed a sitter - such is football. I wasn't giving a strong opinion on him to be honest, its just not usual to see your defensive midfield lynchpin taken off early in successive weeks. Just wondered if his performances were irking the manager to some degree? His performance certainly irked me on Saturday. He was fucking dreadful.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 20, 2015 21:36:15 GMT
So for successive weeks we take him off and we get a positive outcome. Ends have to start somewhere.
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Post by stokiejoe on Apr 20, 2015 21:44:42 GMT
Football is a young man's game, goalkeepers survive longer but round about 30 heralds the beginning of the end for most outfield players. None of them will be as good as their peak but experience can help to overcome the reduction in physical attributes, but there comes a time ...
Dont think he is there yet but at 31 his time is limited.
It is the perfect time to seek to bring in replacements.
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Post by foster on Apr 20, 2015 21:51:16 GMT
I judge Whelan by how he fares compared to our other players. For someone who is a starter, I think we should have better. Same applies for other positions(Eg RB) not under discussion in this thread. How does he fare compared to other players? He's a better player, a more effective player or a more consistent player than most alternatives within the Stoke City squad. He's was up there amongst our top performers last season and he's up there again this season. Replace him with better? Absolutely. It won't be as easy as some of you would have us believe as around 25m already spent trying to do so proves. I'm comparing to other nailed on starters. Those who are in the first 11 when fully fit. Not the FBs that rotate or others who don't start regularly.
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 20, 2015 22:45:04 GMT
For me Glen starting is a no brainer. Yes, he can misplace a few passes at times and sometimes those misplaced passes can us have us on the backfoot because of the position he takes up, but overall his contribution is a massive positive. Many fans who knock him judge him on those few misplaces passes and don't see the tremendous amount of work he contributes throughout a game. I'd settle for replacing him with a younger 'Whelan', but at the moment he is one of the players who don't need replacing.
Having said that, I don't pick the team, and as Victor Momo has pointed out, Hughes has taken him off two games in a row. Injured or just tactical? I have no idea.
Cattermole to replace him? Not for me, thanks.
OS.
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Post by mcf on Apr 21, 2015 12:33:10 GMT
For me Glen starting is a no brainer. Yes, he can misplace a few passes at times and sometimes those misplaced passes can us have us on the backfoot because of the position he takes up, but overall his contribution is a massive positive. Many fans who knock him judge him on those few misplaces passes and don't see the tremendous amount of work he contributes throughout a game. I'd settle for replacing him with a younger 'Whelan', but at the moment he is one of the players who don't need replacing. Having said that, I don't pick the team, and as Victor Momo has pointed out, Hughes has taken him off two games in a row. Injured or just tactical? I have no idea. Cattermole to replace him? Not for me, thanks. OS. He was just very tired as he had put so much work in. The flashy, glory midfielder types always need someone like Glenn to do their running for them
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Post by kustokie on Apr 21, 2015 12:45:15 GMT
Football is a young man's game, goalkeepers survive longer but round about 30 heralds the beginning of the end for most outfield players. None of them will be as good as their peak but experience can help to overcome the reduction in physical attributes, but there comes a time ... Dont think he is there yet but at 31 his time is limited. It is the perfect time to seek to bring in replacements. "young man's game" - Apparently Sir Stan didn't get that memo.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 21, 2015 12:46:19 GMT
For me Glen starting is a no brainer. Yes, he can misplace a few passes at times and sometimes those misplaced passes can us have us on the backfoot because of the position he takes up, but overall his contribution is a massive positive. Many fans who knock him judge him on those few misplaces passes and don't see the tremendous amount of work he contributes throughout a game. I'd settle for replacing him with a younger 'Whelan', but at the moment he is one of the players who don't need replacing. Having said that, I don't pick the team, and as Victor Momo has pointed out, Hughes has taken him off two games in a row. Injured or just tactical? I have no idea. Cattermole to replace him? Not for me, thanks. OS. He was just very tired as he had put so much work in. The flashy, glory midfielder types always need someone like Glenn to do their running for them The Charlie Adam's and MCF's of this world are presumably the players to which you refer???
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Post by themistocles on Apr 21, 2015 12:55:02 GMT
No replacement will be bought unless one of whelen, sidwell or Adam are sold.
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Post by stokiejoe on Apr 21, 2015 13:14:11 GMT
Football is a young man's game, goalkeepers survive longer but round about 30 heralds the beginning of the end for most outfield players. None of them will be as good as their peak but experience can help to overcome the reduction in physical attributes, but there comes a time ... Dont think he is there yet but at 31 his time is limited. It is the perfect time to seek to bring in replacements. "young man's game" - Apparently Sir Stan didn't get that memo. I watched a number of his rather limited cameo roles and whilst he was something of an exception then, it wouldn't happen now. Stan did far more training than most of the players at that time many of whom smoked. Great player and a nice bloke. The level of fitness now is way beyond what it was.
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Post by stokiejoe on Apr 21, 2015 13:16:44 GMT
No replacement will be bought unless one of whelen, sidwell or Adam are sold. Was thinking more of the likes of Shenton and young players who would benefit from being with the older and more experienced players, eased in rather than dropped in.
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Apr 21, 2015 13:34:05 GMT
For me Glen starting is a no brainer. Yes, he can misplace a few passes at times and sometimes those misplaced passes can us have us on the backfoot because of the position he takes up, but overall his contribution is a massive positive. Many fans who knock him judge him on those few misplaces passes and don't see the tremendous amount of work he contributes throughout a game. I'd settle for replacing him with a younger 'Whelan', but at the moment he is one of the players who don't need replacing. Having said that, I don't pick the team, and as Victor Momo has pointed out, Hughes has taken him off two games in a row. Injured or just tactical? I have no idea. Cattermole to replace him? Not for me, thanks. OS. Well said Owd. Whelan has the DNA that makes us what we are in bucket loads, that's one of the factors which is difficult to replace. What I find pleasing is that it's apparent that Stoke haven't finished until the season ends. It would be easy for the players to have one eye on the beach now as they say, yet vs West Ham and Southampton, for example, we've come back from a losing position to win points. Compare and contrast Stoke's attitude to that of the West Ham or Newcastle players of late. That's the difference between the likes of Whelan, SJW, Ryan etc. and any number of other team's players. Watch as those three cajole, chivvy, encourage, direct their team mates throughout the game, they don't accept passengers. There's more to this football lark than a mis-placed pass.
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thegolddisc
Academy Starlet
Awarded to our heroes
Posts: 132
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Post by thegolddisc on Apr 21, 2015 13:48:12 GMT
regarding Saturday I think it looked like it was the end of the season - tired and lose play by both sides... it was a poor championship game for the majority of the 90 minutes.
I think we have a ready made replacement for Glenn Whelan in Marc Muniesa... he has the defensive qualities for this role and also has great ball control moving forward, it could build a great relationship in the centre of midfield between Muni and Bojan.
Whelan has been a great servant - but I think Muni could be the man to fill his boots next year.
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Post by nott1 on Apr 21, 2015 15:46:10 GMT
regarding Saturday I think it looked like it was the end of the season - tired and loose play by both sides... it was a poor championship game for the majority of the 90 minutes. I think we have a ready made replacement for Glenn Whelan in Marc Muniesa... he has the defensive qualities for this role and also has great ball control moving forward, it could build a great relationship in the centre of midfield between Muni and Bojan. Whelan has been a great servant - but I think Muni could be the man to fill his boots next year. Yes let's try Muni in his place soon.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 21, 2015 15:54:01 GMT
Not this again. Muniesa isn't a midfielder and why would we even experiment with him there in place of Whelan. If we het a =n upgrade on Glenn then we need to spend money and look outside. Our Spanish defender is not the solution.
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Post by heavysoul on Apr 21, 2015 16:33:12 GMT
If Whelan hadn't been on the line to clear the ball during the Southampton game we would have drawn the game.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 21, 2015 16:57:51 GMT
For me Glen starting is a no brainer. Yes, he can misplace a few passes at times and sometimes those misplaced passes can us have us on the backfoot because of the position he takes up, but overall his contribution is a massive positive. Many fans who knock him judge him on those few misplaces passes and don't see the tremendous amount of work he contributes throughout a game. I'd settle for replacing him with a younger 'Whelan', but at the moment he is one of the players who don't need replacing. Having said that, I don't pick the team, and as Victor Momo has pointed out, Hughes has taken him off two games in a row. Injured or just tactical? I have no idea. Cattermole to replace him? Not for me, thanks. OS. So are you saying that it important for a manager, when choosing who he signs, to check the player has the appropriate DNA and carry out due diligence on every apple that may or may not drop?
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 21, 2015 17:29:40 GMT
If Whelan hadn't been on the line to clear the ball during the Southampton game we would have drawn the game. If N'Zonzi hadn't of missed a sitter it would of been irrelevant. If Walters could play a decent 4 yard square ball it would of been irrelevant....
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Post by stokeyabroad on Apr 21, 2015 18:08:44 GMT
The clearance off the line last saturday was the first time all season Glenda has passed FORWARD and found a Stoke player .
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 21, 2015 18:16:45 GMT
If Whelan hadn't been on the line to clear the ball during the Southampton game we would have drawn the game. If N'Zonzi hadn't of missed a sitter it would of been irrelevant. If Walters could play a decent 4 yard square ball it would of been irrelevant.... And if Whelan could have done his job at the near post we conceded from it would be irrelevant.
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