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Post by lastoftheldk on Jan 25, 2015 21:07:35 GMT
Say they are not going to pay the bailout, talk of leaving the euro etc,
bet Phil the Greek is demanding the fleet be sent in,
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 25, 2015 21:16:11 GMT
Good luck to the folks in Greece , they have been well and truly fucked over by all and sundry .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:30:09 GMT
Greece have had European money shovelled in for years with no questions asked and as a result have squandered it. Over the last three years the cold harsh reality of financial payback has struck...
The EU will want blood regardless of this result.
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Post by Gods on Jan 25, 2015 22:07:55 GMT
Seems like paying back their debt just became unbearable.
Goodness knows where all this is heading...bankruptcy, return of the drachma, who knows.
At least we didn't sign up to the Euro but that won't mean we will emerge unscathed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 22:11:22 GMT
Seems like paying back their debt just became unbearable. Goodness knows where all this is heading...bankruptcy, return of the drachma, who knows. At least we didn't sign up to the Euro but that won't mean we will emerge unscathed. You're quite right.....the one thing you can guarantee is that Greece won't walk away from this smelling of roses. If anything they will crumble into free fall....the rest may follow at a later date. |
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Post by Northy on Jan 25, 2015 22:12:20 GMT
They should never have been allowed in the Euro, their economy was so out of sync with the others.
If they won't pay it back there will be massive sanctions, expect massive problems and a lot more greeks coming here to work.
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Post by Gods on Jan 25, 2015 22:16:14 GMT
Yes, I can't see a happy ending to this one even if they are feeling good about things in Athens tonight.
Germany is the largest creditor, can't see them being too happy about the old Greeks living beyond their means for decades and generally dodging paying their taxes and then defaulting on the repayment package they had signed up to.
No gentle landing here.
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clan2
Youth Player
Posts: 484
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Post by clan2 on Jan 25, 2015 22:47:19 GMT
Them Printers down at the Euro Printing Factory had better pull there fingers out they need to print an extra 303 Billion .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 23:20:09 GMT
They should never have been allowed in the Euro, their economy was so out of sync with the others. If they won't pay it back there will be massive sanctions, expect massive problems and a lot more greeks coming here to work. Well they lied their way in by falsifying their accounts didn't they ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 23:28:13 GMT
This is not the end , this is not even the start of the end but it may be the end of the beginning.
The tiny snowball has now started to roll. It will get bigger. Europe cannot force Greece to stay in the club , but it will make life hellish.
Who's next and what will the outcome be ?
I reckon in a decades time there will be half a dozen countries left....Germany France + four or five others...
We may even see a diluted form of membership if certain countries become dissatisfied. A kind of "affiliated membership " rather than full blown membership.
We may even see a second division of European countries....who knows ?
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 26, 2015 7:17:17 GMT
This is not the end , this is not even the start of the end but it may be the end of the beginning. The tiny snowball has now started to roll. It will get bigger. Europe cannot force Greece to stay in the club , but it will make life hellish. Who's next and what will the outcome be ? I reckon in a decades time there will be half a dozen countries left....Germany France + four or five others... We may even see a diluted form of membership if certain countries become dissatisfied. A kind of "affiliated membership " rather than full blown membership. We may even see a second division of European countries....who knows ? That Churchill thread must have been in your head when you wrote this! What we are seeing here is what happens when politics trumps the realities of life. Not the first time, and it applies to both left and right; Thatcher's first term pursuit of M3 monetarism (the undefinable in pursuit of the unattainable as it was memorably termed) for example on the right. Europe choose to ignore a whole load of economic and social realities in pursuit of a political ideal. And it's going wrong. No need to ditch anything completely, just bring back reality into political thinking. |
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Post by basingstokie on Jan 26, 2015 7:57:08 GMT
If Greece do default then Merkel et al will need drive them into financial ruin and back to the dark ages. Anything less and citizens all over Europe will be voting for 'stuff the debt' style parties and then the financial and capital system around the world will collapse.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 9:01:34 GMT
If Greece do default then Merkel et al will need drive them into financial ruin and back to the dark ages. Anything less and citizens all over Europe will be voting for 'stuff the debt' style parties and then the financial and capital system around the world will collapse. The working class have already been driven into the dark ages by the troika sent by brussels greece the founders of democracy being told how to live their lives by a Angela Merkel and the Brussel krouts brigade |
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Post by redstriper on Jan 26, 2015 10:26:08 GMT
If the greeks default WE will end up paying our share of the loss, we won't be out of it in time to avoid doing so. And, given the way it works, our share will no doubt be disproportionately high due to some "special formula" they dream up.
The EEC has been run by the power mad who like extra countries to be in as it increases their power and the variety of junkets they can go on, regardless of whether it made economic sense.
The whole thing has been a absolute disaster from the start. We should have cut our losses years ago.
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Post by elsidibe on Jan 26, 2015 11:22:42 GMT
If the greeks default WE will end up paying our share of the loss, we won't be out of it in time to avoid doing so. And, given the way it works, our share will no doubt be disproportionately high due to some "special formula" they dream up. The EEC has been run by the power mad who like extra countries to be in as it increases their power and the variety of junkets they can go on, regardless of whether it made economic sense. The whole thing has been a absolute disaster from the start. We should have cut our losses years ago. We'll end up paying our share because a whole host of financial institutions from across Northern Europe - many of the ones that caused the Credit Crunch - have pumped Greece full to bursting with private debt. All the talk of astronomical public debt, and of Greeks being profligate and lazy, is a smokescreen that's either been exaggerated by the media or is not true at all. Greece was allowed into the single currency because more developed countries like Germany wanted to devalue the Euro in order to boost exports of everything from dishwashers to military submarines. The resulting exports were backed by cheap credit and bribery. Ultimately you reap what you sow and, as the banks themselves are so fond of telling us, "the value of your investment can go down as well as up so you may get back less than you originally invested." |
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Post by basingstokie on Jan 26, 2015 13:07:43 GMT
If Greece do default then Merkel et al will need drive them into financial ruin and back to the dark ages. Anything less and citizens all over Europe will be voting for 'stuff the debt' style parties and then the financial and capital system around the world will collapse. The working class have already been driven into the dark ages by the troika sent by brussels greece the founders of democracy being told how to live their lives by a Angela Merkel and the Brussel krouts brigade However much they were encouragedo by the northern powerhouses, they choose to join the euro, they then choose to run up overdrafts and loans to fund their economy. If they can then default with no consequences then countries all over Europe will do the same. Their issue is that if the leave the euro and form drachma2 then that will devalue against the euro pretty much instantly. But all their debt is repayable in euros and so becomes even more expensive and their will be no vested interests to keep them going. They will quickly enter a financial wilderness. Imo, they need to exit the euro, their economy isn't strong enough and constant bailouts, restructuring of payment terms and loan write offs are testing the patience of the rest of Europe |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 13:14:11 GMT
The working class have already been driven into the dark ages by the troika sent by brussels greece the founders of democracy being told how to live their lives by a Angela Merkel and the Brussel krouts brigade However much they were encouragedo by the northern powerhouses, they choose to join the euro, they then choose to run up overdrafts and loans to fund their economy. If they can then default with no consequences then countries all over Europe will do the same. Their issue is that if the leave the euro and form drachma2 then that will devalue against the euro pretty much instantly. But all their debt is repayable in euros and so becomes even more expensive and their will be no vested interests to keep them going. They will quickly enter a financial wilderness. Imo, they need to exit the euro, their economy isn't strong enough and constant bailouts, restructuring of payment terms and loan write offs are testing the patience of the rest of Europe rI agree |
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Post by santy on Jan 26, 2015 14:03:03 GMT
The truth of the matter is, if a country decides not to pay back your options are pretty limited. You can impose restrictions on them in terms of trade, but there are others like Russia and China who wouldn't back such measures. A lot of faith is held in the constructs we've built around our societies for what constitutes the rules and hierarchy. Greece tends to be a gateway into Europe for a lot of immigrants too, they get kicked out of the Union and I'm sure their interest in helping stop immigrants getting to Europe diminishes greatly.
If a country refuses to pay its debts the options are awfully limited. I don't expect Greece will have much in the way of assets in other countries, or in the banks of other countries - nothing Governments could really seize as a payment towards what was owed. Most sanctions would likely be done without the US backing, so that immediately reduces the weight of any sanctions further similar to how a number of the US sanctions on Russia have been ineffective due to various European countries not adopting them as well.
The only country only really pushed into the wilderness by the options available to governments have been North Korea, and even that is partially down to their own acceptance of that and that has also been massively undermined still by China. Even Iran have been able to get by without too much incident - at least known to the outside world.
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Post by basingstokie on Jan 26, 2015 19:07:29 GMT
The options are pretty easy actually,
1) obviously no bank or government will provide loans
2) they will not beable to get credit for anything, want a new warship built, that'll be 100% cash upfront please.
3) the devaluation of drachma2 will mean no one sensible will accept payment in this currency, $'s, £'s, €'s etc only please.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 26, 2015 20:32:25 GMT
If the greeks default WE will end up paying our share of the loss, we won't be out of it in time to avoid doing so. And, given the way it works, our share will no doubt be disproportionately high due to some "special formula" they dream up. The EEC has been run by the power mad who like extra countries to be in as it increases their power and the variety of junkets they can go on, regardless of whether it made economic sense. The whole thing has been a absolute disaster from the start. We should have cut our losses years ago. We'll end up paying our share because a whole host of financial institutions from across Northern Europe - many of the ones that caused the Credit Crunch - have pumped Greece full to bursting with private debt. All the talk of astronomical public debt, and of Greeks being profligate and lazy, is a smokescreen that's either been exaggerated by the media or is not true at all. Greece was allowed into the single currency because more developed countries like Germany wanted to devalue the Euro in order to boost exports of everything from dishwashers to military submarines. The resulting exports were backed by cheap credit and bribery. Ultimately you reap what you sow and, as the banks themselves are so fond of telling us, "the value of your investment can go down as well as up so you may get back less than you originally invested." Brilliant post. |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 26, 2015 20:35:59 GMT
It shows the EU isn't a one size fits all currency
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 26, 2015 20:53:03 GMT
It shows the EU isn't a one size fits all currency The eurozone was a creation of political dogma , rather than an economic imperative . It was destined to fail . One of the biggest losers in this mess are the Germans . Destined to be the paymaster of Europe , stuck in the euro with no escape |
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Post by santy on Jan 27, 2015 0:26:01 GMT
The options are pretty easy actually, 1) obviously no bank or government will provide loans 2) they will not beable to get credit for anything, want a new warship built, that'll be 100% cash upfront please. 3) the devaluation of drachma2 will mean no one sensible will accept payment in this currency, $'s, £'s, €'s etc only please. I see there being the possibility of Russia using this as some point scoring. It all depends how much will they have for it, and while it wouldn't be anything akin to old USSR levels of support for keeping nations in their pocket could you really rule out that Putin would see this as a chance for some payback? Also could see a rise in tourism were Greece to become much better value for money from our perspective in a devalued drachma. A number of countries in the far east have just suspended the importation of a variety of American grown produce due to concerns over GM crops. You may well be right and that's a sufficient deterrent to stop Greece from wandering down that route. However for one reason or another, anything the EU decides to impose or do as a result, could be undermined by Russia, China or the US quite easily depending on the circumstances. |
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Post by craig67 on Jan 27, 2015 0:48:19 GMT
The options are pretty easy actually, 1) obviously no bank or government will provide loans 2) they will not beable to get credit for anything, want a new warship built, that'll be 100% cash upfront please. 3) the devaluation of drachma2 will mean no one sensible will accept payment in this currency, $'s, £'s, €'s etc only please. Also could see a rise in tourism were Greece to become much better value for money from our perspective in a devalued drachma. One of the things I hear from friends who have tourist businesses in Greece is they can't wait to leave the Euro. Whether it does benefit them or not is another matter? |
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Post by basingstokie on Jan 27, 2015 8:19:16 GMT
Also could see a rise in tourism were Greece to become much better value for money from our perspective in a devalued drachma. One of the things I hear from friends who have tourist businesses in Greece is they can't wait to leave the Euro. Whether it does benefit them or not is another matter? Fair point, they would experience a rise in tourism I suspect (although who chooses to go to Greece instead of Italy because it is 5% cheaper). would it be enough to save their economy though? |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 27, 2015 14:32:47 GMT
Greece was allowed to join the European Community when all European (and USA) Economies were strong. The idea being to 'level up'.But then the Global Financial Crisis came along and they found themselves in serious economic trouble. Only another World Economic Boom could have helped them but the opposite occurred. We are now seeing the political implications of economic disaster. It's a bit like trying to bring Jon Parkin back into the current Stoke side..with the hope that he'll lose some (a lot) of weight and gain new skills off more talented players. Err....  |
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Post by britsabroad on Jan 27, 2015 14:57:12 GMT
Good luck to the folks in Greece , they have been well and truly fucked over by all and sundry . If it wasn't standard practice in Greece not to bother paying your taxes they might not be in this mess. |
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 27, 2015 18:21:20 GMT
Good luck to the folks in Greece , they have been well and truly fucked over by all and sundry . If it wasn't standard practice in Greece not to bother paying your taxes they might not be in this mess. Who would pay tax unless compelled to . I wouldn't . Blame the Greek government |
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Post by slother on Jan 27, 2015 18:26:54 GMT
Goldman Sachs falsified their accounts for them, then cleaned up themselves in the resulting clusterfuck. Absolute bastards.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 0:16:31 GMT
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