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Post by djcswal on Jan 20, 2015 15:25:22 GMT
Okay, here's the scenario - I was away at Leicester on Saturday with family. Had a great day out in a fantastic atmosphere, apart from one thing - three guys in the row behind me chanting racist songs at various points in the match - ironically, just as a group of kids were walking around the pitch with the 'respect' banners. Pleasingly, no-one else joined in (a few muttered comments about us having some 'idiots' amongst our fans), but what do you do about it? How do you react? How SHOULD you react?
If you confront them you'll just have a bunch of philistines bombard you with fists? Telling a steward is pretty obvious but that'll get you the same end result.
So, any thoughts out there as we've got to get rid of these knuckle-draggers. they're bringing our club down. 
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 20, 2015 15:48:35 GMT
Okay, here's the scenario - I was away at Leicester on Saturday with family. Had a great day out in a fantastic atmosphere, apart from one thing - three guys in the row behind me chanting racist songs at various points in the match - ironically, just as a group of kids were walking around the pitch with the 'respect' banners. Pleasingly, no-one else joined in (a few muttered comments about us having some 'idiots' amongst our fans), but what do you do about it? How do you react? How SHOULD you react?
If you confront them you'll just have a bunch of philistines bombard you with fists? Telling a steward is pretty obvious but that'll get you the same end result.
So, any thoughts out there as we've got to get rid of these knuckle-draggers. they're bringing our club down. I agree that 3 is more problematic (and risky) than 1 on his own. However, you can tell a steward without letting the culprit(s) know that it was you who fingered them. Make a mental note of their seat number(s) head down to the concourse at half time and tell a steward when you are out of sight of the culprits. If the stewards take action the racists will know they have been fingered - but not who by. At a cup match once there were two blokes in the seats behind me who were not the usual season ticket occupants. One of them was very drunk and was racially abusing Mama from the first minute. The other guy looked embarrassed. Two of us turned round and said if he didn't stop we'd get him evicted. He wanted to argue the toss but his mate took him down to the concourse and they never came back to their seats. |
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 20, 2015 15:50:33 GMT
Okay, here's the scenario - I was away at Leicester on Saturday with family. Had a great day out in a fantastic atmosphere, apart from one thing - three guys in the row behind me chanting racist songs at various points in the match - ironically, just as a group of kids were walking around the pitch with the 'respect' banners. Pleasingly, no-one else joined in (a few muttered comments about us having some 'idiots' amongst our fans), but what do you do about it? How do you react? How SHOULD you react?
If you confront them you'll just have a bunch of philistines bombard you with fists? Telling a steward is pretty obvious but that'll get you the same end result.
So, any thoughts out there as we've got to get rid of these knuckle-draggers. they're bringing our club down. Beheading them in public would cure the issue once and for all  |
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Post by santy on Jan 20, 2015 15:51:57 GMT
Ultimately its not your job or any other individuals to monitor or try and control the ways in which others act. If you disagree with it then you report it where relevant and move on but beyond that there's nothing to do. Posts like your own are laced with the irony of taking a very small bit of information about a group of individuals and projecting similar characteristics onto a whole group as a result. There's no real reason to be racist in life but you could meet the same people anywhere else but a football match and possibly think they're decent and no different from yourself, purely because without alcohol and without getting caught up in the moment they keep their thoughts to themselves.
So yea, in short, if they've done wrong by of course report them through the available means - but you shouldn't really come on and make sweeping, degrading generalisations about people who make sweeping, degrading generalisations.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 20, 2015 15:56:53 GMT
Ultimately its not your job or any other individuals to monitor or try and control the ways in which others act. If you disagree with it then you report it where relevant and move on but beyond that there's nothing to do. Posts like your own are laced with the irony of taking a very small bit of information about a group of individuals and projecting similar characteristics onto a whole group as a result. There's no real reason to be racist in life but you could meet the same people anywhere else but a football match and possibly think they're decent and no different from yourself, purely because without alcohol and without getting caught up in the moment they keep their thoughts to themselves. So yea, in short, if they've done wrong by of course report them through the available means - but you shouldn't really come on and make sweeping, degrading generalisations about people who make sweeping, degrading generalisations. I disagree with your point. If someone chants racist comments at a football match the OP has every right to refer to them as knuckle draggers. If anything he is being very restrained in his description. Racist chanting is a criminal act - pure and simple. |
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Post by Will_75 on Jan 20, 2015 16:01:07 GMT
Ultimately its not your job or any other individuals to monitor or try and control the ways in which others act. If you disagree with it then you report it where relevant and move on but beyond that there's nothing to do. Posts like your own are laced with the irony of taking a very small bit of information about a group of individuals and projecting similar characteristics onto a whole group as a result. There's no real reason to be racist in life but you could meet the same people anywhere else but a football match and possibly think they're decent and no different from yourself, purely because without alcohol and without getting caught up in the moment they keep their thoughts to themselves. So yea, in short, if they've done wrong by of course report them through the available means - but you shouldn't really come on and make sweeping, degrading generalisations about people who make sweeping, degrading generalisations. So... what you're saying is just because someone makes a racist chant, that doesn't make them an idiot? |
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Post by santy on Jan 20, 2015 16:05:47 GMT
So... your point is essentially you are free to judge people on the basis of very little knowledge about them - just one feature you are able to identify? Isn't that what racism is?
As I said, if someone does wrong then report them.
First hand experience has shown me a number of people who work long hours to support a mrs & kids and generally being what fits the description of "decent" but add a few beers to the mix and in a group with others who have been drinking and you end up with some very silly remarks from them. I don't agree with it, but I also don't see it as my place to pass judgement on what kind of person it makes them.
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Post by mcf on Jan 20, 2015 16:06:07 GMT
It would be great to live a day in either the real world or this webtard one where racism doesn't get mentioned.
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Post by seychellesstokie on Jan 20, 2015 16:07:34 GMT
At a game last season, a guy near me in the Boothen End shouted racist remarks and a couple of rows in front there happened to be a black guy. He and his friends stood up and called out the racist. I must say I was hugely impressed with how the stewards handled it. A female steward went in and asked him very politely to come to the end of the row where a couple of beefy stewards then took charge. A large number of people gave statements and the culprit is now serving a 3 year ban. So, I think report it to stewards then sit back is the way to go. They have been trained to deal with potentially difficult situations like this.
Can't agree more that we have to weed out these neanderthals. But let the professionals do it.
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Post by danceswithclams on Jan 20, 2015 16:08:14 GMT
I fingered a racist once.
I didn't know she was racist at the time mind, it was when she started asking me to prove I wasn't a Jew that alarm bells started ringing.
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Post by djcswal on Jan 20, 2015 16:10:06 GMT
Thanks Lakeland/Santy/Carps. I'm just opening it up for debate. It was just an unpleasant/awkward situation to be in - one I've been in a few times before on away games. It's just how to deal with it at the time.
Beheading just MAY be OTT.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Jan 20, 2015 16:18:45 GMT
So... your point is essentially you are free to judge people on the basis of very little knowledge about them - just one feature you are able to identify? Isn't that what racism is? As I said, if someone does wrong then report them. First hand experience has shown me a number of people who work long hours to support a mrs & kids and generally being what fits the description of "decent" but add a few beers to the mix and in a group with others who have been drinking and you end up with some very silly remarks from them. I don't agree with it, but I also don't see it as my place to pass judgement on what kind of person it makes them. Agree 100%. It is of course wrong to racially abuse anyone, but is this any worse than other abuse that gets dished out at any football game? THe ref obviously comes in for a bucket load. Wenger routinely gets labeled as a Frog something or other. Anyone with longer hair is a gypo. Any opposition (and sometimes our own)player can get dogs abuse for varying reasons. It seems that most abuse can be argued away as making the Brit an intimidating place to come? The difference is that one kind of abuse gets you a criminal record and probably a lifetime ban whereas the other type of abuse makes you fan of the year. |
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Post by podolipotter on Jan 20, 2015 16:19:13 GMT
Thanks Lakeland/Santy/Carps. I'm just opening it up for debate. It was just an unpleasant/awkward situation to be in - one I've been in a few times before on away games. It's just how to deal with it at the time. Beheading just MAY be OTT. Yeah - kill all extremists!!!!!!! |
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Post by songthrush01 on Jan 20, 2015 16:27:38 GMT
Get in the real world,you're worried about racists get a grip man,there more coloured people in this than ever,so it can't be that bad living here,everybody gets called names everyday in life that's the real world
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Post by Will_75 on Jan 20, 2015 16:28:44 GMT
So... your point is essentially you are free to judge people on the basis of very little knowledge about them - just one feature you are able to identify? Isn't that what racism is? As I said, if someone does wrong then report them. First hand experience has shown me a number of people who work long hours to support a mrs & kids and generally being what fits the description of "decent" but add a few beers to the mix and in a group with others who have been drinking and you end up with some very silly remarks from them. I don't agree with it, but I also don't see it as my place to pass judgement on what kind of person it makes them. Agree 100%. It is of course wrong to racially abuse anyone, but is this any worse than other abuse that gets dished out at any football game? THe ref obviously comes in for a bucket load. Wenger routinely gets labeled as a Frog something or other. Anyone with longer hair is a gypo. Any opposition (and sometimes our own)player can get dogs abuse for varying reasons. It seems that most abuse can be argued away as making the Brit an intimidating place to come? The difference is that one kind of abuse gets you a criminal record and probably a lifetime ban whereas the other type of abuse makes you fan of the year. yes, obviously. |
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Post by Will_75 on Jan 20, 2015 16:30:19 GMT
Get in the real world,you're worried about racists get a grip man,there more coloured people in this than ever,so it can't be that bad living here,everybody gets called names everyday in life that's the real world I think you've got this confused with the "what was the Oatcake like in 1953?" thread |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:31:50 GMT
What you do is stand Frank Bruno next to the person who is spouting the racist chants......problem over.... any way they want it =)
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Post by spongebobflathead on Jan 20, 2015 16:39:18 GMT
Just ignore them pure and simple , some people are cunts , they are born cunts will live their lives like cunts and will die being cunts !
that's life , no one (or the vast majority at least ) really cares about their think as shit opinions
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Post by boothenboy75 on Jan 20, 2015 16:52:09 GMT
Agree 100%. It is of course wrong to racially abuse anyone, but is this any worse than other abuse that gets dished out at any football game? THe ref obviously comes in for a bucket load. Wenger routinely gets labeled as a Frog something or other. Anyone with longer hair is a gypo. Any opposition (and sometimes our own)player can get dogs abuse for varying reasons. It seems that most abuse can be argued away as making the Brit an intimidating place to come? The difference is that one kind of abuse gets you a criminal record and probably a lifetime ban whereas the other type of abuse makes you fan of the year. yes, obviously. Why? I imagine that for a father and ginger haired son hearing, fuck off Kitson you ginger prick would be mildly upsetting? I'm not saying racism is Ok in anyway. What I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of offensive things said at the match every week but it's only racism that gets a campaign and a thread on here every couple of days. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 17:02:24 GMT
Give all foriiegners big lumps of cheese to stick in their ears
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 20, 2015 17:30:46 GMT
Okay, here's the scenario - I was away at Leicester on Saturday with family. Had a great day out in a fantastic atmosphere, apart from one thing - three guys in the row behind me chanting racist songs at various points in the match - ironically, just as a group of kids were walking around the pitch with the 'respect' banners. Pleasingly, no-one else joined in (a few muttered comments about us having some 'idiots' amongst our fans), but what do you do about it? How do you react? How SHOULD you react? If you confront them you'll just have a bunch of philistines bombard you with fists? Telling a steward is pretty obvious but that'll get you the same end result. So, any thoughts out there as we've got to get rid of these knuckle-draggers. they're bringing our club down. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/post/new/239614#ixzz3PNotu5pS__________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Then you must have been sat near me as the guys in question were a couple of rows behind me also - and similar thoughts ran through my mind. I was hoping the chant didn't catch on and it didn't. They tried it a couple of times later and once again no-one joined in. They say the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result so I guess they must definitely be stupid. I hope so, I'd hate to think they were otherwise intelligent. They do it for a reaction - be that reaction to get the chant going or to provoke a confrontation. the last thing they would want was to be ignored - so whether by accident or design your decision to do nothing actually worked. Hopefully if they keep getting ignored the penny might drop that they're actually a bit pathetic, that arrested development is not a good look and that it might be an idea to change their behaviour. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 17:35:13 GMT
The one thing that annoys me at the game, forget dodgy pies and slippery floors, it's the brain-dead amongst us. Thick as shit. If they were dogs, you'd put them down.
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Post by tonk1985 on Jan 20, 2015 17:36:33 GMT
Sorry but do u know where knuckle draggers derives from that in its self could be classed as a racist remark
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 20, 2015 17:36:47 GMT
Many grounds have a text number which you can use confidentially, and Kick It Out have an app. for reporting it, but Lakeland's advice is also good. We also saw a group of our fans after the game singing a racist song targetted as some Leicester fans walking away from the ground (who for all these racists knew might well have been just as english as they were). Very depressing, but thankfully nowhere near as bad as it once was.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Jan 20, 2015 17:36:46 GMT
Why? I imagine that for a father and ginger haired son hearing, fuck off Kitson you ginger prick would be mildly upsetting? I'm not saying racism is Ok in anyway. What I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of offensive things said at the match every week but it's only racism that gets a campaign and a thread on here every couple of days. If you're comparing racial abuse with taking the piss of someones hair colour then you're as thick as pig shit, youth. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 20, 2015 17:39:35 GMT
Racism is deplorable and if I had heard it, regardless of the numbers, I would have said something to him/them and wouldn't have been able to help myself.
Something along the lines of "come on lads, there's simply no need is there?" would suffice and if it escalated from there, so be it. I'd take my chances in fairness because it is something that I feel particularly strongly about.
There are cunts of all colours, creeds, religions and races and there a some of the biggest dicks know to mankind who are white, British and Stoke City supporters.
Ignoring them isn't the answer in my opinion. You have to stand up for what you believe in.
People responding with other forms of abuse (as in the Ginger analogy above), in my opinion, simply don't get it. People haven't been murdered, forced to slavery, deprived of jobs and faced a battle to be accepted in a society in which they live or are born into for being ginger in the same way that many black people have been in generations gone by.
My Grandads family originated from Scotland but he was born in Burma, fought for the British army in the second world war and came to Britain after the war. He was regularly abused for being a black man living in the Potteries, had to do jobs not befitting of his ability (he was a medic in the army) because his skin colour prevented him from getting better jobs and when he married my nan (a white potteries girl) he came in for even more abuse, much of it disgusting. He fought to make ends meat for his family and he worked several shitty jobs to provide for them before eventually getting a job more in line with his abilities many years later. Before retiring, he was the Chief Education Officer for Staffordshire.
Abusing someone because of their colour of skin is unacceptable as is brushing such things under the carpet with comparisons to being ginger or similar.
Chants relating to "towns full of xxx", IRA related songs, army related songs have no place at a football game and racism has no place in our society. There are good and bad in all people, regardless of race, colour, religion or origin.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 20, 2015 17:48:24 GMT
Get in the real world,you're worried about racists get a grip man,there more coloured people in this than ever,so it can't be that bad living here,everybody gets called names everyday in life that's the real world I don't. To the extent that it is the "real world" we want to change that world so that nobody has to tolerate racist abuse. Thankfully at football it is nothing like as prevalent as it once was. You also appear to be under the totally false impression that all members of ethnic minorities are not just as english as you presumably are. Whether it's good or bad living here is nothing to do with it, other than the fact that what sometimes makes it "bad" is racist abuse. |
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Post by no1972 on Jan 20, 2015 17:54:48 GMT
They were most probably the same knobheads who took the piss out of the OAP in spoons.I said people need to stand up to these people or they think they rule the world.They act the same as terrorist's of all colour and nationality ,that the law abiding citizens will just stand there and say nothing.
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Post by desman2 on Jan 20, 2015 17:58:10 GMT
Ultimately its not your job or any other individuals to monitor or try and control the ways in which others act. If you disagree with it then you report it where relevant and move on but beyond that there's nothing to do. Posts like your own are laced with the irony of taking a very small bit of information about a group of individuals and projecting similar characteristics onto a whole group as a result. There's no real reason to be racist in life but you could meet the same people anywhere else but a football match and possibly think they're decent and no different from yourself, purely because without alcohol and without getting caught up in the moment they keep their thoughts to themselves. So yea, in short, if they've done wrong by of course report them through the available means - but you shouldn't really come on and make sweeping, degrading generalisations about people who make sweeping, degrading generalisations. I disagree with your point. If someone chants racist comments at a football match the OP has every right to refer to them as knuckle draggers. If anything he is being very restrained in his description. Racist chanting is a criminal act - pure and simple. Is everyone who masturbates a wanker ? |
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Post by nottinghamstokie on Jan 20, 2015 18:28:48 GMT
All I can say is that I'd like to think I try to deal with it better than the so-called "stewards" who are supposed to deal with it. On 3 occasions over about 5 years I have witnessed racial comments ( as opposed to chants but frankly where's the difference ? ) in the Boothen, aimed at black opposing players. On each occasion the stewards who were close enough to have had to have heard it just ignored it. On each occasion I went to the steward and asked him to do his job and confront the shouter(s) Every time, the individual steward did variations of shrugging and saying "what can I do ?" so each time I went back and spoke to the shouter(s) Two told me to f*ck off and the other said "you got a problem ?" I replied that his racist abuse was my problem and he just smiled. Being half my age, at least, and twice as big, there was clearly not a lot I could do after that.
On each occasion I e-mailed Tony Scholes and gave the number of the stewards and on each occasion I received no response at all........ that's "Kick it Out" for you.......
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