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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 21, 2014 17:53:41 GMT
Yes, appalling gaffe...and one of the reasons thousands of working class people have been lost by Labour. Disappointed the Libdems edged out the Raving Loonies. It wasn't a gaffe. It was a show of contempt that the labour posh have for the English and in particular not racist English nationalists I notice you've changed your tune from the other week when that Tory said the disabled weren't worth as much as the rest of us. You went out of your way to convince us how it was just a slip of the tongue, came out wrong, was worded wrong, just a gaffe etc...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 17:59:47 GMT
I think if the guy had not been a previous standing Conservative MP , UkIp may not have won the seat ....two MPs , two Tory defectors , it would be interesting to see their performance if they had candidates of their own standing ....there is always going to be an amount of voter loyalty towards a previous encumbent.....Nigel Farage knows this is the best strategy to employ if he wants to get a reasonable amount of MPs under his belt before going into the next election .....it will be interesting to see what happens come May. I think after Clacton I read a UKIP voter was asked why he had voted UKIP and his reply was because the sitting Tory MP had done nothing for the area..... Seriously ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:04:25 GMT
Yes, appalling gaffe...and one of the reasons thousands of working class people have been lost by Labour. Disappointed the Libdems edged out the Raving Loonies. Why - what did she say exactly...? She said nothing just posted that picture of the England flags and the White van outside the house
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Post by salopstick on Nov 21, 2014 18:52:11 GMT
It wasn't a gaffe. It was a show of contempt that the labour posh have for the English and in particular not racist English nationalists I notice you've changed your tune from the other week when that Tory said the disabled weren't worth as much as the rest of us. You went out of your way to convince us how it was just a slip of the tongue, came out wrong, was worded wrong, just a gaffe etc... poor language taken out of context is different to deliberately tweeting a picture and caption.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 21, 2014 19:37:39 GMT
Not necessarily. UKIP will take seats off the Tories 'down South' but won't really touch Labour in the North. The Lib Dem vote will be split between UKIP/Labour/Greens. This may further reduce the Conservative share of the vote. Mitigating against this of course is the overwhelmingly pro-Conservative/UKIP & virulently anti-Labour Press (ironically enough almost entirely foriegn owned !!). What worries the Conservatives is that the Economy is starting to slow down at the wrong time (politically) and that might affect their share of the vote. The best thing Labour can do at the moment is to sit back and observe and see which way the political land lies. The Election will be a lot closer than people think..in my opinion. They are more likely to win marginal labour seats than marginal Tory seats. - the anti EU and immigrant scaremongering of ukip will more likely resonate with working class labour areas than the Tory heartlands. Yes, that is a possibility.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 21, 2014 19:39:43 GMT
Not necessarily. UKIP will take seats off the Tories 'down South' but won't really touch Labour in the North. The Lib Dem vote will be split between UKIP/Labour/Greens. This may further reduce the Conservative share of the vote. Mitigating against this of course is the overwhelmingly pro-Conservative/UKIP & virulently anti-Labour Press (ironically enough almost entirely foriegn owned !!). What worries the Conservatives is that the Economy is starting to slow down at the wrong time (politically) and that might affect their share of the vote. The best thing Labour can do at the moment is to sit back and observe and see which way the political land lies. The Election will be a lot closer than people think..in my opinion. You are wrong in thinking it wont touch Labour, just look at the recent result in the Heywood & Middleton by election. The traditional Labour voters are pissed off with them and have been guided by the media into thinking Ukip are the alternative to the Tories now that the Lib Dems are out of the picture. It's all been in the planning. Yes, that's probably true..I think that's what Salop was saying.
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Post by mermaidsal on Nov 21, 2014 19:41:31 GMT
It would have helped if she'd worked out there was an England game this week...
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Post by Northy on Nov 21, 2014 20:02:22 GMT
I think after Clacton I read a UKIP voter was asked why he had voted UKIP and his reply was because the sitting Tory MP had done nothing for the area..... Seriously ? Probably Whenever I watch pointless I'm amazed at how few people don't know some basic answers sometimes
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Post by Northy on Nov 21, 2014 20:05:10 GMT
It would have helped if she'd worked out there was an England game this week... And could have helped her if she'd added a victory over the jocks sentence
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Post by tuum on Nov 22, 2014 3:38:32 GMT
This is a bad result for the Conservative Party make no mistake about that. They will be worried about this privately but will dress it up as a 'little local difficulty'. For UKIP to really set the cat amongst the political pigeons they now need a few defections from Labour. The General Election is going to be very interesting. Not really. General consensus among political commentators was that UKIP needed a majority of 5,000 or more to have a good chance at the General Election. A majority of 2,000+ can easily be overturned at a GE where voting tactics are different. I think the Tories will be relatively happy with this result..it was not a disaster.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 22, 2014 9:40:13 GMT
Yes, The Conservatives were beaten but not stuffed and they will hope to win this seat back at a General Election...but they will be worried about other potential defectors to UKIP.
UKIP are part of a much bigger political wave sweeping across Europe. France, Italy, Greece & Spain have all moved to the populist Right. Not big enough to blow the house down but big enough to smash a few windows & kick a few doors in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 10:00:58 GMT
I don't think many on your average council estate could fall into the category of the 'popularist right' , but more importantly a group of disenchanted hard working class voters who are not prepared to swallow the shit & lies pumped out by the media to show how good immigration is for this country. Figures of 5 billion were quoted , which is true if one just looks at EU immigration , but that figure is dwarfed and pales into insignificance when one considers the £ 120 billion deficit incurred by all of those migrants (legal and otherwise) from other parts of the globe. You see , it's no longer 'clever or trendy' to be trotting out the myth that migration to this country is good. Overall it is not. When you also take into consideration our membership 'fees' to this exclusive club known as the EU , then even greater concerns come to light.
All this might sound like it is coming from a UKIP supporter , but as many know I'm not ....I am simply pointing out the facts as opposed to some of the fiction perpetrated by those political animals running scared by the threat that UKIP poses . Farage has changed the face of British Politics that no other politician has done since Enoch Powells famous speech all those years ago , but in contrast to Powell he has done it in a way that is more informed , more subtle , And in the main less racially provocative. That is not to say that there are some less politically correct supporters within their party , but that is inevitable when one considers the subject matter and contentious points up for discussion. UKIPs appeal crosses all political divides and in based on one principle ...we are getting ripped off.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 22, 2014 10:26:28 GMT
I don't think many on your average council estate could fall into the category of the 'popularist right' , but more importantly a group of disenchanted hard working class voters who are not prepared to swallow the shit & lies pumped out by the media to show how good immigration is for this country. Figures of 5 billion were quoted , which is true if one just looks at EU immigration , but that figure is dwarfed and pales into insignificance when one considers the £ 120 billion deficit incurred by all of those migrants (legal and otherwise) from other parts of the globe. You see , it's no longer 'clever or trendy' to be trotting out the myth that migration to this country is good. Overall it is not. When you also take into consideration our membership 'fees' to this exclusive club known as the EU , then even greater concerns come to light. All this might sound like it is coming from a UKIP supporter , but as many know I'm not ....I am simply pointing out the facts as opposed to some of the fiction perpetrated by those political animals running scared by the threat that UKIP poses . Farage has changed the face of British Politics that no other politician has done since Enoch Powells famous speech all those years ago , but in contrast to Powell he has done it in a way that is more informed , more subtle , And in the main less racially provocative. That is not to say that there are some less politically correct supporters within their party , but that is inevitable when one considers the subject matter and contentious points up for discussion. UKIPs appeal crosses all political divides and in based on one principle ...we are getting ripped off. UKIP's anti EU message isn't the answer but both labour and the Tories have not done enough to sell the benefits of the EU. AND THAT INCLUDES OPEN BORDERS
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Post by kbillyh on Nov 22, 2014 10:55:29 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector.
Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects.
And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite.
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Post by desman2 on Nov 22, 2014 11:25:36 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector. Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects. And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite. Its the elite who use immigration to their own benefit. They are the ones who use immigration to stop working people getting paid a proper and civilised wage for doing a hard days work. This is what has screwed the trades unions over because the trades unions are all for mass immigration as they've stated many times, but it has severely restricted their abilities to fight for better pay as those who move here and get jobs are more than willing to work for peanuts and work even more hours for more peanuts. Then they tell us that they add to the tax revenue, when in reality a single person on minimum wage can claim a working tax credit which wipes out income tax paid. They then tell us that British people i.e the likes of you and me are lazy bastards who dont want to work. Thats the problem. People complain about wage levels being too low, while supporting the very thing that keeps them low. A person can critisise the financial sector for so called avoidance or fiddling but that does take some intelligent planning whereas someone who backs a system that allows you to be screwed over by your employers takes nothing more than stupidity.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 22, 2014 12:10:26 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector. Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects. And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite. immigration isn't a economic issue imo. It's more a social issue. Too much with no integration
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 22, 2014 12:34:15 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector. Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects. And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite. Correct and no more obvious than some of the responses on this board and this thread.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 22, 2014 12:35:19 GMT
It wasn't a gaffe. It was a show of contempt that the labour posh have for the English and in particular not racist English nationalists I notice you've changed your tune from the other week when that Tory said the disabled weren't worth as much as the rest of us. You went out of your way to convince us how it was just a slip of the tongue, came out wrong, was worded wrong, just a gaffe etc... Happens a lot to be fair.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 22, 2014 13:12:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 13:16:54 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector. Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects. And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite. immigration isn't a economic issue imo. It's more a social issue. Too much with no integration Oh it is ...Infact it's cost £120 billion over the last 17 years or so. There aren't many bigger bills to find. It doesn't include the cost of the terrorist threat either. Then we're really cooking on gas.
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Post by desman2 on Nov 22, 2014 13:34:46 GMT
Thats really no different than a Labour voter saying that they are the party of the ordinary person, when in reality they are not.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 22, 2014 14:00:14 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector. Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects. And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite. Correct and no more obvious than some of the responses on this board and this thread. I am glad you are here to point these things out to us, Huddy. How close were we to being hoodwinked by the elite again? Thanks to you and the other guy we will be able to think for ourselves again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 17:13:33 GMT
Emily Thornbury proving the contempt labour have for the voters. Are you surprised? Most of us on here have been saying for years that there is no difference between Labour and Conservative these days and hasn't been for years. Following their lurch to the right under Tony Blair, Labour is increasingly full of precisely the same type of Oxbridge educated folk who have long dominated the Tory Party, no doubt with similar attitudes to the 'great unwashed' (Although if by posting a picture of a St George's cross bedecked house, she meant to imply the occupants might be ignorant dickheads, she was bob on: "What election?" ???)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 17:14:24 GMT
It wasn't a gaffe. It was a show of contempt that the labour posh have for the English and in particular not racist English nationalists I notice you've changed your tune from the other week when that Tory said the disabled weren't worth as much as the rest of us. You went out of your way to convince us how it was just a slip of the tongue, came out wrong, was worded wrong, just a gaffe etc... Of course, he did. One was done by the Tories, one by Labour. Look no further for an explanation!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 17:18:46 GMT
The immigration debate is just propaganda by the elite to divert attention away from the fraud and fiddling of the financial sector. Immigration isn't the issue that's causing the problems of today but you are being told that it is because it creates fear, and if you fear you will submit to any old shit the state throws at you because you think it protects. And it's working, traditional left thinking sections of society are now voting for a hard right party run by a privileged elite. immigration isn't a economic issue imo. It's more a social issue. Too much with no integration Immigration isn't an economic issue? Really?! Benefits, NHS costs, benefits to business and the wider economy. It's massively an economic issue. Or perhaps there's no link to the economy, like there's no link between tax revenues and the national debt!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 22, 2014 17:52:42 GMT
Correct and no more obvious than some of the responses on this board and this thread. I am glad you are here to point these things out to us, Huddy. How close were we to being hoodwinked by the elite again? Thanks to you and the other guy we will be able to think for ourselves again. My pleasure mate....
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Post by salopstick on Nov 22, 2014 18:09:00 GMT
immigration isn't a economic issue imo. It's more a social issue. Too much with no integration Immigration isn't an economic issue? Really?! Benefits, NHS costs, benefits to business and the wider economy. It's massively an economic issue. Or perhaps there's no link to the economy, like there's no link between tax revenues and the national debt! there are massive economic ramifications I agree but we keep getting told that the net benefits of immigration outweighs the cost when it comes to scaremongering it's the social issues that take precedence
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 18:15:47 GMT
Correct and no more obvious than some of the responses on this board and this thread. I am glad you are here to point these things out to us, Huddy. How close were we to being hoodwinked by the elite again? Thanks to you and the other guy we will be able to think for ourselves again. You can only speak for yourself in this respect you know .....some of us were quite able to think for ourselves already , despite what some may think
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 18:18:45 GMT
I am glad you are here to point these things out to us, Huddy. How close were we to being hoodwinked by the elite again? Thanks to you and the other guy we will be able to think for ourselves again. My pleasure mate.... There you go immodestly basking in false glory again ....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 8:22:20 GMT
Immigration isn't an economic issue? Really?! Benefits, NHS costs, benefits to business and the wider economy. It's massively an economic issue. Or perhaps there's no link to the economy, like there's no link between tax revenues and the national debt! there are massive economic ramifications I agree but we keep getting told that the net benefits of immigration outweighs the cost when it comes to scaremongering it's the social issues that take precedence Scaremongering is carried out by the right wing press by and large, typically the Express and Daily Hate, who have successfully managed to conflate Islamic extremism, benefits tourism and Britain's financial woes with immigration on the whole. I'm sure I read somewhere recently that immigration from EU countries provides a net economic benefit to the UK which wouldn't surprise me at all and little or no increase in crime or antisocial behaviour (although you wouldn't think so, reading the stories in the Hate!), whereas immigration as a whole costs the country. In which case, why campaign to leave Europe! Sadly, much as they prefer not to think so, people are very heavily influenced by the press. Decades ago, all of our woes were being blamed on the Jews, yes even in this country, and the Daily Mail was at the forefront of a campaign to demonize them and stop them coming into the country. Immigration and minority bashing is always a popular diversion away from the real issue and that is that a select few control the wealth and power but are not prepared to use it to make things better for more people.
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