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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 26, 2014 1:20:22 GMT
It's because we have the Whelan fan club butt hurt by actual stats showing a good debut for said player applying for the I quote 'whelan role' There is bound to be the Irish brigade in here. A few have shown per usual just because it has Cameron in the title. See anything involving the 3 W's as reference lol The defense of Marc Wilson's prestigious start to the season is just as hilarious. So he's shit at right back it's a Wilko fan club, has a poor game in midfield yet people are willing to give him a chance its a Whelan fan club Is this Irish brigade the same as the anti American one. I don't know, you're all over the place on the guy you tell me. 'Poor' game huh, 88% passing... covering for Adam with baby nzonzi playing keep away with himself. Your opinion.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 26, 2014 1:25:20 GMT
So he's shit at right back it's a Wilko fan club, has a poor game in midfield yet people are willing to give him a chance its a Whelan fan club Is this Irish brigade the same as the anti American one. I don't know, you're all over the place on the guy you tell me. 'Poor' game huh, 88% passing... covering for Adam with baby nzonzi playing keep away with himself. Your opinion. What do you mean I'm all over the place on him, I've constantly stated he is a fucking shit right back but happy to see him played else where, how is that all over the place, that seems quite clear to me. He had a poor game today, as did the others, he was constantly out of position, out of the three (Cameron, N'Zonzi and Adam) he was meant to be the one sitting (same as Whelan), but he continually bombed forward leaving the defence exposed and Adam having to cover, once he learns how to play the DM role he could become a good player for us, hopefully he learns it quicker than you or we're all fucked until Whelan is back to fitness.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 26, 2014 1:35:24 GMT
I don't know, you're all over the place on the guy you tell me. 'Poor' game huh, 88% passing... covering for Adam with baby nzonzi playing keep away with himself. Your opinion. What do you mean I'm all over the place on him, I've constantly stated he is a fucking shit right back but happy to see him played else where, how is that all over the place, that seems quite clear to me. He had a poor game today, as did the others, he was constantly out of position, out of the three (Cameron, N'Zonzi and Adam) he was meant to be the one sitting (same as Whelan), but he continually bombed forward leaving the defence exposed and Adam having to cover, once he learns how to play the DM role he could become a good player for us, hopefully he learns it quicker than you or we're all fucked until Whelan is back to fitness. Adam covering for Cameron? What bullshit sir. Adam couldn't cover his own man, he was slow unfit and the entire first half and had to give countless free kicks from behind which lead to their goal. He wasn't covering for Cameron he let his man best him and was the first correct sub. Three times Cameron was out of position and each time it was after he had intercepted the ball in route and pressed forward. We didn't give a goal during the run of play, we gave a goal AGAIN on a set piece from Mr. Marc Wilson. Once we get a proper CB (hopefully in Jan.) and actually have a lineup minus a unfit Adam and uncreative and slow John Walters to start, all of a Sudden we were taking the game to them, with Nzonzi and Cameron in the center. In fact he was our second best player yesterday behind Bardsley. Please spout poor without anyfacts just your own opinion. I really wonder if you do watch the games...
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 26, 2014 3:29:25 GMT
he's not a CAM in a million years, but could work in the holding role. Its not been seen so how do you know? He hasn't even been tried in the holding role either. Btw, the same was said of Glenn years ago that he'd never be a cdm but could do the holding role. Here we are. I've read this post a few times in light of the subsequent discussion and I can't make sense of this last line... Who ever said Glenn couldn't be a cdm? And 'but' he could do the holding role? The holding role is what a cdm does, no?
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2014 8:15:01 GMT
I thought he did alright. Southampton's defensive play was good, they let you come forward a bit then close you down as a pack so we had no space and lost the ball.
At some points I thought Cameron sat too far back and gave them the space to build an attack. Much of the time that was ok, because he would have been stuck on his own, but a few times when it was just one of their guys between the mid and defensive lines it looked like Cameron gave them way too much space.
We can fix that though. And Cameron offers a fantastic engine while still being more talented and positive than whelan on the ball so I'm happy to keep him there for the next games.
I dont think we can start with Crouch, Adam and Walters again, too little pace for counterattacks. In hindsight I'd have started Diouf in place of Adam and that might have made the whole team look better. I just worry about how other teams keep looking hungrier than us.
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Post by ChrisKamarasPerm on Oct 26, 2014 8:21:13 GMT
Covered the most distance on the pitch for Stoke.
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Post by timbo1988 on Oct 26, 2014 8:24:45 GMT
Covered the most distance on the pitch for Stoke. That is a silly stat for me! You wouldn't want the centre back covering lots of distance as they would be out of position! Should Cameron be roaming from a holding position in midfield or should he be screening the back 4? The stats suggest he covered lots of ground but maybe not positionally the best!
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Post by ChrisKamarasPerm on Oct 26, 2014 8:28:03 GMT
Covered the most distance on the pitch for Stoke. That is a silly stat for me! You wouldn't want the centre back covering lots of distance as they would be out of position! Should Cameron be roaming from a holding position in midfield or should he be screening the back 4? The stats suggest he covered lots of ground but maybe not positionally the best! So maybe he isn't the answer to the DM role many on here scream.
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Post by timbo1988 on Oct 26, 2014 8:30:06 GMT
That is a silly stat for me! You wouldn't want the centre back covering lots of distance as they would be out of position! Should Cameron be roaming from a holding position in midfield or should he be screening the back 4? The stats suggest he covered lots of ground but maybe not positionally the best! So maybe he isn't the answer to the DM role many on here scream. I would agree and say he is better in the Nzonzi position of breaking forward but would say he hasn't got as much quality as Nzonzi! Whelan for the holding role for me!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 26, 2014 11:46:00 GMT
What do you mean I'm all over the place on him, I've constantly stated he is a fucking shit right back but happy to see him played else where, how is that all over the place, that seems quite clear to me. He had a poor game today, as did the others, he was constantly out of position, out of the three (Cameron, N'Zonzi and Adam) he was meant to be the one sitting (same as Whelan), but he continually bombed forward leaving the defence exposed and Adam having to cover, once he learns how to play the DM role he could become a good player for us, hopefully he learns it quicker than you or we're all fucked until Whelan is back to fitness. Adam covering for Cameron? What bullshit sir. Adam couldn't cover his own man, he was slow unfit and the entire first half and had to give countless free kicks from behind which lead to their goal. He wasn't covering for Cameron he let his man best him and was the first correct sub. Three times Cameron was out of position and each time it was after he had intercepted the ball in route and pressed forward. We didn't give a goal during the run of play, we gave a goal AGAIN on a set piece from Mr. Marc Wilson. Once we get a proper CB (hopefully in Jan.) and actually have a lineup minus a unfit Adam and uncreative and slow John Walters to start, all of a Sudden we were taking the game to them, with Nzonzi and Cameron in the center. In fact he was our second best player yesterday behind Bardsley. Please spout poor without anyfacts just your own opinion. I really wonder if you do watch the games... Exactly but because of Cameron he had to sit deep to cover for him being out of position. Your spouting as much opinion as anyone else, I don't need stats, or you for that matter to tell me what my eyes are seeing, I sometimes wonder if I was exaggerating when I said you had half a brain cell.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 26, 2014 11:48:23 GMT
Its not been seen so how do you know? He hasn't even been tried in the holding role either. Btw, the same was said of Glenn years ago that he'd never be a cdm but could do the holding role. Here we are. I've read this post a few times in light of the subsequent discussion and I can't make sense of this last line... Who ever said Glenn couldn't be a cdm? And 'but' he could do the holding role? The holding role is what a cdm does, no? Hahaha I missed that gem, proves it all really
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2014 11:52:18 GMT
Stats are shit.
But more and more people are using them to hang their hats on when it comes to football arguments.
Silly sausages.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2014 12:36:12 GMT
Its not been seen so how do you know? He hasn't even been tried in the holding role either. Btw, the same was said of Glenn years ago that he'd never be a cdm but could do the holding role. Here we are. I've read this post a few times in light of the subsequent discussion and I can't make sense of this last line... Who ever said Glenn couldn't be a cdm? And 'but' he could do the holding role? The holding role is what a cdm does, no? I think it's pretty clear that he hasn't got the foggiest idea when it comes to even the most fundamental aspects of the game.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 26, 2014 12:44:15 GMT
We were overrun in midfield yesterday, but I still think Cameron, Adam, and N'Zonzi are our best combination.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 16:29:10 GMT
It was worth a try and he deserved another chance, but deep down i think many knew/know he is more suited to a box to box role given his attributes.
He was obviously given a sitting role on Bony against Swansea. Yesterday it wasn't so clear. He obviously has the discipline after what we saw against Swansea and for the USA in the WC. Why he went walkies god only knows.
Instructions? I doubt Hughes would be so daft. Did he give him enough head to be able to change his game given the circumstances, and Geoff saw we weren't committing many men forward? Possible I suppose but just as daft.
Off day? Again, possible.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2014 16:35:37 GMT
It was worth a try and he deserved another chance, but deep down i think many knew/know he is more suited to a box to box role given his attributes. He was obviously given a sitting role on Bony against Swansea. Yesterday it wasn't so clear. He obviously has the discipline after what we saw against Swansea and for the USA in the WC. Why he went walkies god only knows. Instructions? I doubt Hughes would be so daft. Did he give him enough head to be able to change his game given the circumstances, and Geoff saw we weren't committing many men forward? Possible I suppose but just as daft. Off day? Again, possible. I don't think he obviously does have the discipline, he showed that at right back. In fact that's my biggest worry with him in the position.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Oct 26, 2014 16:41:58 GMT
It was worth a try and he deserved another chance, but deep down i think many knew/know he is more suited to a box to box role given his attributes. He was obviously given a sitting role on Bony against Swansea. Yesterday it wasn't so clear. He obviously has the discipline after what we saw against Swansea and for the USA in the WC. Why he went walkies god only knows. Instructions? I doubt Hughes would be so daft. Did he give him enough head to be able to change his game given the circumstances, and Geoff saw we weren't committing many men forward? Possible I suppose but just as daft. Off day? Again, possible. I don't think he obviously does have the discipline, he showed that at right back. In fact that's my biggest worry with him in the position. He didn't show discipline at right back either he was continually caught out of position, which people put down to him not being a right back.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Oct 26, 2014 16:43:27 GMT
Stats are shit. But more and more people are using them to hang their hats on when it comes to football arguments. Silly sausages. and then there are those that dismiss stats because they don't suit their argument.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 16:45:24 GMT
I thought Gcam did about as same as most of the rest yesterday - 6-7/10
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Oct 26, 2014 16:45:34 GMT
Stats are shit. But more and more people are using them to hang their hats on when it comes to football arguments. Silly sausages. and then there are those that dismiss stats because they don't suit their argument. The only stat that matters is Goals.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2014 16:53:21 GMT
Stats are shit. But more and more people are using them to hang their hats on when it comes to football arguments. Silly sausages. and then there are those that dismiss stats because they don't suit their argument. No, stats have a part to play but people base arguments purely on stats, football doesn't work like that. Last season by the stats Cameron was ace so I was told. That's why half of the fanbase wanted him dropped and the manager made signing a right back his main priority.....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2014 16:59:44 GMT
Another stat I loved from last season. Wilson only made 1 error that led to a goal. I'm pretty sure he gave away 2 penalties, both that led to goals!
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 27, 2014 3:51:14 GMT
and then there are those that dismiss stats because they don't suit their argument. No, stats have a part to play but people base arguments purely on stats, football doesn't work like that. Last season by the stats Cameron was ace so I was told. That's why half of the fanbase wanted him dropped and the manager made signing a right back his main priority..... Look at our form. Banging in the goals...
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 27, 2014 3:53:53 GMT
and then there are those that dismiss stats because they don't suit their argument. The only stat that matters is Goals. Enter Glenn whelan, Wilko, Wilson... wait a minute. lol
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 27, 2014 3:55:14 GMT
Stats are shit. But more and more people are using them to hang their hats on when it comes to football arguments. Silly sausages. Coming from one of the biggest stat whores during the Pulis era this is hilarious.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 27, 2014 3:57:59 GMT
Stats are shit. But more and more people are using them to hang their hats on when it comes to football arguments. Silly sausages. and then there are those that dismiss stats because they don't suit their argument. Bingo. Most here can't stand the fact Geoff was second only to Bardsley via Opta the offical league statisticians... Quelle the surprise? Insert "Out of position" to counter. Classic oatcake.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 27, 2014 11:24:14 GMT
I don't know, you're all over the place on the guy you tell me. 'Poor' game huh, 88% passing... covering for Adam with baby nzonzi playing keep away with himself. Your opinion. What do you mean I'm all over the place on him, I've constantly stated he is a fucking shit right back but happy to see him played else where, how is that all over the place, that seems quite clear to me. He had a poor game today, as did the others, he was constantly out of position, out of the three (Cameron, N'Zonzi and Adam) he was meant to be the one sitting (same as Whelan), but he continually bombed forward leaving the defence exposed and Adam having to cover, once he learns how to play the DM role he could become a good player for us, hopefully he learns it quicker than you or we're all fucked until Whelan is back to fitness. You don't seriously think N'Zonzi played any better do you? I thought the entire midfield was pretty shite. Adam was the worst. Cameron wasn't brilliant and N'Zonzi wasn't much good either.
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