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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 30, 2014 15:42:59 GMT
I thought Huth looked great in the Cup game against Sunderland {granted it was a disrupted stream and the commentary was in Yonglu}. He was blowing at the end but that was understandable given the length of his lay off. I reckon our defensive frailties so far this season have come as a result of over complicating things in defence. Huth certainly ain't complicated. I was always under the impression that Huth was pretty quick out of the blocks when necessary, but his understanding of the game and the relationship with Ryan and Bego meant that he never really had to rely on that. We miss his presence at corners at both ends.
2nd best defence in the league = defensive frailties.
I'm missing something.
Relatively speaking of course. We can't expect impregnability I know, but goals conceded against Villa and Leicester at the Brit, and two leaked against QPR so far have cost us. Especially when those teams are no great shakes, sat back and hardly threatened us. Similarly last night, they had a bucket of corners and there was twenty minutes of heart stopping moments. I'm just saying that I reckon with a fit Huth re-established in our defence, combined with the better chances we're creating up front we'd be phenomenal. It may be a pipe dream if his injury is as bad as you are suggesting, I hope it's not so. For the record I've always been supportive of Wilson, but think he's been better at left back than centre back.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 30, 2014 16:30:47 GMT
An interesting concept which completely ignores the fact that Shawcross is both a better defender and better footballer than Wilson. Shawcross doesn't make the defensive or distribution mistakes that blight almost every game Wilson plays. how can it ignore the concept of Shawcross being a better defender when I actually say that he's a better defender....!? idiot Indeed. That was remiss of me but I posted between meetings. It does ignore the fact that as well as being a better defender, Ryan's distribution is also better and more consistent than Wilsons! :-)
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 30, 2014 17:12:53 GMT
Huth got done by the worst centre forward in the PL against Sunderland. If Wilson had done that people would spontaneously combust.
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Post by tazi on Sept 30, 2014 17:14:59 GMT
I think Wilson has been unlucky really as every little mistake is getting punished which for everyone to get punished is pretty unlucky.
Thought he played well last night and thankfully the colback chance didn't get converted, though heaven knows how not.
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Post by tazi on Sept 30, 2014 17:18:05 GMT
If they had got an undeserved point, ALL of the blame would have lain at the other end of the pitch. Again. No it wouldn't have. Yes it would have and quite rightly it would have been too because you just cannot afford to miss those chances that came our way, or at least we should have done a whole lot better to make chances when players were in decent positions. I lost count of how many times Arnie failed to beat his man.
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Post by elsidibe on Oct 1, 2014 17:31:47 GMT
Yes it would have and quite rightly it would have been too because you just cannot afford to miss those chances that came our way, or at least we should have done a whole lot better to make chances when players were in decent positions. I lost count of how many times Arnie failed to beat his man. I'm not denying any of that; my point was that not "ALL" of the blame should lie with the attack if/when the defence make a fuck-up. Our cheap errors at the back have been equally as costly as our profligacy in the final third this season.
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Post by adi on Oct 1, 2014 18:56:50 GMT
Huth is better. Wilson isn't good enough. I'd hope for better. Don't tell me you're happy with Wilson instead of signing better.
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Post by march4 on Oct 1, 2014 19:06:58 GMT
For the record, the Sunderland chance was 90% down to Assaidi who compounded his ridiculous throw in by then going completely AWOL from his defensive duties and left us completely exposed down that flank.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 19:13:33 GMT
For the record, the Sunderland chance was 90% down to Assaidi who compounded his ridiculous throw in by then going completely AWOL from his defensive duties and left us completely exposed down that flank. Your dislike of Assaidi is pretty pathetic...
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Post by march4 on Oct 1, 2014 19:29:07 GMT
For the record, the Sunderland chance was 90% down to Assaidi who compounded his ridiculous throw in by then going completely AWOL from his defensive duties and left us completely exposed down that flank. Your dislike of Assaidi is pretty pathetic... It is completely true, though. Moses had been doing an amazing job tracking back and protecting his full back. As soon as Assaidi came on the flank was wide open. It was disturbing to see and nearly cost us 2pts. I'm sure LMH will be working with him in training this week to ensure it doesn't happen again.
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Post by enuntio on Oct 1, 2014 19:32:48 GMT
HUTH is sorely missed. If it's match practice he needs, then give him the matches. Three centre backs when we're in front for the the last 10 minutes wouldn't go amiss. We shall see if he's improved when we play Southampton in the cup. They don't like it HUTH 'em
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 19:50:27 GMT
May as well start looking to the future and integrating Teixeira in the cup games. Seems to have the raw potential to be strong and composed.
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Post by adi on Oct 1, 2014 19:51:26 GMT
Tell you one thing. Callum Chambers is wank. Seen him do nothing good in galatasaray game.
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Post by adi on Oct 1, 2014 19:52:44 GMT
Your dislike of Assaidi is pretty pathetic... It is completely true, though. Moses had been doing an amazing job tracking back and protecting his full back. As soon as Assaidi came on the flank was wide open. It was disturbing to see and nearly cost us 2pts. I'm sure LMH will be working with him in training this week to ensure it doesn't happen again. Hopefully he'll be as good as last season.
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Post by parttimelurker on Oct 1, 2014 20:39:06 GMT
I love Huthy as much as anyone but prior to his injury he was really struggling with the change in style. If he hadn't been injured he would have been dropped imo.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Oct 1, 2014 21:06:03 GMT
Granted Assaidi's ridiculous throw in did little to help matters but I'm sure Colback hitting the bar came as a direct result of Wilson's piss poor pass/clearance. The bloke is an accident waiting to happen. Fortunately his regular mistake per game didn't cost us this time. If Huth is fit, I'd have him in the team in a heartbeat. I would also play Muniesa ahead of him regardless of our win and clean sheet last night.
Well if your sure then it must be the case.
Shawcross was to blame as much as anyone.
It's a game of opinions granted, but the facts this season tell us we are strong defensively. The whole of the back four and the midfield two are doing a sound job.
The way I saw it Obertan was left free and ran into acres of space, Wilson came across to cover ( as he should have done ) and it was Ryan in the centre with Colback and it was Ryan who missed the clearance. If the cross had been better or Wilson hadn't put some pressure on Obertan they had four attackers on two. It was a lucky escape. Can't say it was down to Wilson at all. They did have some joy down our left side in the last quarter but really they didn't look that dangerous, we defended well.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 1, 2014 21:19:57 GMT
I love Huthy as much as anyone but prior to his injury he was really struggling with the change in style. If he hadn't been injured he would have been dropped imo. No he wasn't. He was injured and was struggling with fitness from the opening day of the season at Liverpool. IF he's fully recovered his inclusion is a no brainer. IF being the key word.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 1, 2014 22:41:34 GMT
Huth is better. Wilson isn't good enough. I'd hope for better. Don't tell me you're happy with Wilson instead of signing better. I'm happy with Wilson so far, thats not to say there isn't better, theres always better but the defence is the least of our worries.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 1, 2014 22:43:25 GMT
It is completely true, though. Moses had been doing an amazing job tracking back and protecting his full back. As soon as Assaidi came on the flank was wide open. It was disturbing to see and nearly cost us 2pts. I'm sure LMH will be working with him in training this week to ensure it doesn't happen again. Hopefully he'll be as good as last season. Hopefully he'll be much better, he didn't do enough last season, a couple of goals yes but nothing more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 6:19:28 GMT
We've got three great centre halves this year (potentially 4 with tex), 4 great fullbacks and shielding this bunch of cunts is the imperious Glen Whelan, if it's our defence that worries you then i'm astounded. Our problems are finishing and to be honest, that's about it...
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 2, 2014 6:27:08 GMT
Your dislike of Assaidi is pretty pathetic... It is completely true, though. Moses had been doing an amazing job tracking back and protecting his full back. As soon as Assaidi came on the flank was wide open. It was disturbing to see and nearly cost us 2pts. I'm sure LMH will be working with him in training this week to ensure it doesn't happen again. When Moses went off injured I was hoping that Hughes would move Muniesa up to the left wing and bring in Pieters. Had we been chasing the game, Assaidi would have made some sense but given that we had the lead, I'd have wanted to protect it and Pieters and Muniesa on the left would have given us a better chance of doing so.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 6:39:55 GMT
I love Huthy as much as anyone but prior to his injury he was really struggling with the change in style. If he hadn't been injured he would have been dropped imo. No he wasn't. He was injured and was struggling with fitness from the opening day of the season at Liverpool. IF he's fully recovered his inclusion is a no brainer. IF being the key word. It obviously isn't a no brainer.
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Post by slpmarc on Oct 2, 2014 6:50:26 GMT
I am, their best chance came from his piss poor clearance where he should have just walloped it but instead tried a chip pass that went straight to one of their players and then a few passes later Colback was hitting the bar. One mistake he made all night but it nearly cost us again. That's all he is doing every game, Marc makes one maybe two mistakes a game the same as most other players unfortunately for him he is getting severely punished for them. Monday was the first time a small mistake was not punished. As a whole Wilson is not playing bad and if not for clinical finishing from the opposition nobody would be saying otherwise
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 2, 2014 9:33:32 GMT
No he wasn't. He was injured and was struggling with fitness from the opening day of the season at Liverpool. IF he's fully recovered his inclusion is a no brainer. IF being the key word. It obviously isn't a no brainer. Of course it is. You play your best players if they are fit and available and when fit Huth is a fsr superior player than Wilson.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 9:43:41 GMT
It obviously isn't a no brainer. Of course it is. You play your best players if they are fit and available and when fit Huth is a fsr superior player than Wilson. How long will it take him to get fit, he's already had a couple of months? There's only so much you can do in training, he needs game time to sharpen up. Unfortunately for the lovable Berlin Wall, he'll have to wait for his opportunity as the current centre half pairing are doing a very good job. Like many others, he's got to be patient and fight for a place. At the moment, Wilson is keeping him out on merit. And that's coming from somebody (like most) that loves the massive German youth!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 10:14:01 GMT
May as well start looking to the future and integrating Teixeira in the cup games. Seems to have the raw potential to be strong and composed. This would look to be on the right line maybe worth a look.
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Post by marrer on Oct 2, 2014 10:24:12 GMT
Of course it would. We were rancid in front of goal again. Teams at this level are always going to get a decent chance in 90 minutes, whether that be via an error or brilliance but we should have been out of sight again. There's no excuse for simple errors. Wilson continues to them. Errors vill not be tolerated! Both are issues and both exacerbate the other. Phew, thank god for that. Just re-read your comment - I thought you said 'both masturbate the other'. Musn't try and skim read these threads too quickly.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 2, 2014 14:24:20 GMT
Of course it is. You play your best players if they are fit and available and when fit Huth is a fsr superior player than Wilson. How long will it take him to get fit, he's already had a couple of months? There's only so much you can do in training, he needs game time to sharpen up. Unfortunately for the lovable Berlin Wall, he'll have to wait for his opportunity as the current centre half pairing are doing a very good job. Like many others, he's got to be patient and fight for a place. At the moment, Wilson is keeping him out on merit. And that's coming from somebody (like most) that loves the massive German youth!! Hence why I have started every post on the subject with the word IF. However, last I knew we had the 2nd best defence in the league. That means there is room for improvement. We had also conceded the highest number of goals in relation to shots on target ratios which again shows there is room for improvement. How do we improve? In my opinion, you improve by picking better players and in the most simplistic terms possible, Huth (WHEN FIT) is a far better player than Wilson. My prediction pre Villa was that Wilson will start the season and Huth will finish it. Nothing I've seen to date has changed my mind on that. My concern is the longer Huth goes without games the harder he will find it to properly recover. Were it Shawcross in Huth's position he would have been thrown in to find his fitness. For me, I'd give Huth the same opportunity and think that some on here have forgotten just how good a player Huth was/is. I'd play him. See if he's recovered properly and if he hasn't I'd then be looking at alternatives.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 14:34:09 GMT
How long will it take him to get fit, he's already had a couple of months? There's only so much you can do in training, he needs game time to sharpen up. Unfortunately for the lovable Berlin Wall, he'll have to wait for his opportunity as the current centre half pairing are doing a very good job. Like many others, he's got to be patient and fight for a place. At the moment, Wilson is keeping him out on merit. And that's coming from somebody (like most) that loves the massive German youth!! Hence why I have started every post on the subject with the word IF. However, last I knew we had the 2nd best defence in the league. That means there is room for improvement. We had also conceded the highest number of goals in relation to shots on target ratios which again shows there is room for improvement. How do we improve? In my opinion, you improve by picking better players and in the most simplistic terms possible, Huth (WHEN FIT) is a far better player than Wilson. My prediction pre Villa was that Wilson will start the season and Huth will finish it. Nothing I've seen to date has changed my mind on that. My concern is the longer Huth goes without games the harder he will find it to properly recover. Were it Shawcross in Huth's position he would have been thrown in to find his fitness. For me, I'd give Huth the same opportunity and think that some on here have forgotten just how good a player Huth was/is. I'd play him. See if he's recovered properly and if he hasn't I'd then be looking at alternatives. I agree with some of what you say mate. I wouldn't put Huth in the same bracket as Ryan mind. Shawcross is different gravy.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 2, 2014 14:39:51 GMT
Hence why I have started every post on the subject with the word IF. However, last I knew we had the 2nd best defence in the league. That means there is room for improvement. We had also conceded the highest number of goals in relation to shots on target ratios which again shows there is room for improvement. How do we improve? In my opinion, you improve by picking better players and in the most simplistic terms possible, Huth (WHEN FIT) is a far better player than Wilson. My prediction pre Villa was that Wilson will start the season and Huth will finish it. Nothing I've seen to date has changed my mind on that. My concern is the longer Huth goes without games the harder he will find it to properly recover. Were it Shawcross in Huth's position he would have been thrown in to find his fitness. For me, I'd give Huth the same opportunity and think that some on here have forgotten just how good a player Huth was/is. I'd play him. See if he's recovered properly and if he hasn't I'd then be looking at alternatives. I agree with some of what you say mate. I wouldn't put Huth in the same bracket as Ryan mind. Shawcross is different gravy. Together they look even better than they do as individuals though, mate.
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