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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 15:52:33 GMT
no mate looking at ur comments above i think it must be You takin the piss ? brit Army did a gud job in Iraq and afghan , uK has tryed its best to help the mideast but gets thrrewn back in our face! i don't think he's having a go at the British army mate....no-one has any problem with them as they're just doing what they're told to do and i think we all agree that we have respect in abundance for the armed forces and men and women out there risking their lives. i think he was commenting more on the fact that if you believe genuinely that the Governments that got their collective brains together and decided to send all our troops out there did so to "help out the middle east" then you're living in cloud cuckoo land!!! as i said, that's NO disrespect to those that have gone out there and been injured or lost their lives, it's just that most feel it was a completely unjustified way to treat the servicemen and women of this country; basically being lied to and fed shit about the good they're apparently doing for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan whilst in reality doing nothing more than trying to line the pockets of the rich and corrupt (the UK and US governments that is, not the forces actually being sent out to do that dirty work) wasN saying he was havin a go nesesarily but no way did the uK lie about Syria. I Ment that certain ppl in iraq do not seem greatful for the help we have given them as a coiuntry . cuttin some poor blokes head of whos just tryin to help!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 16:02:34 GMT
i don't think he's having a go at the British army mate....no-one has any problem with them as they're just doing what they're told to do and i think we all agree that we have respect in abundance for the armed forces and men and women out there risking their lives. i think he was commenting more on the fact that if you believe genuinely that the Governments that got their collective brains together and decided to send all our troops out there did so to "help out the middle east" then you're living in cloud cuckoo land!!! as i said, that's NO disrespect to those that have gone out there and been injured or lost their lives, it's just that most feel it was a completely unjustified way to treat the servicemen and women of this country; basically being lied to and fed shit about the good they're apparently doing for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan whilst in reality doing nothing more than trying to line the pockets of the rich and corrupt (the UK and US governments that is, not the forces actually being sent out to do that dirty work) wasN saying he was havin a go nesesarily but no way did the uK lie about Syria. I Ment that certain ppl in iraq do not seem greatful for the help we have given them as a coiuntry . cuttin some poor blokes head of whos just tryin to help! but these aren't just standard members of the public mate! you will always get absolute idiots in every country and fanatics in every religion, they're hardly the norm though. what these people are doing has nothing to do with what he was over there for, he just happened to be a westerner in the wrong place at the wrong time so the lunatics grabbed him to send a message to the west. he could equally have been a Swiss TV reporter and they'd have taken him
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 17:23:17 GMT
wasN saying he was havin a go nesesarily but no way did the uK lie about Syria. I Ment that certain ppl in iraq do not seem greatful for the help we have given them as a coiuntry . cuttin some poor blokes head of whos just tryin to help! but these aren't just standard members of the public mate! you will always get absolute idiots in every country and fanatics in every religion, they're hardly the norm though. what these people are doing has nothing to do with what he was over there for, he just happened to be a westerner in the wrong place at the wrong time so the lunatics grabbed him to send a message to the west. he could equally have been a Swiss TV reporter and they'd have taken him swiss wud never be there tho mate - allways avoid gettin stuck in!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 15, 2014 17:50:02 GMT
however the same old culprits would rather focus blame on foreign policy, conglomorates ans the new world order than condemn people for vile cowardly acts Not at all, cowardly acts like these should always be condemned. It's a failure of joined up thinking if people don't understand why some of these acts are committed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 17:54:11 GMT
wasN saying he was havin a go nesesarily but no way did the uK lie about Syria. I Ment that certain ppl in iraq do not seem greatful for the help we have given them as a coiuntry . cuttin some poor blokes head of whos just tryin to help! but these aren't just standard members of the public mate! you will always get absolute idiots in every country and fanatics in every religion, they're hardly the norm though. what these people are doing has nothing to do with what he was over there for, he just happened to be a westerner in the wrong place at the wrong time so the lunatics grabbed him to send a message to the west. he could equally have been a Swiss TV reporter and they'd have taken him One has to ask oneself what message they are attempting to make to the west. I've heard and read that this is not just about Islam but goes way beyond that. Several media outlets have mentioned that their ideal scenario would be to create their own homeland. A state overlapping Syria and vast areas of Iraq too. So already in order to for this state of 'Fuzzieland' to occur several armies will be at war in order to prevent this and in doing so makes the whole issue far more complicated and volatile. One cannot categorically confirm or deny this rumour but I suppose there is no smoke without fire. Who's to say that this is not necessarily a bad thing in the long term if Syria and Iraq can be convinced that this is a good thing. Personally though , I smell a rat. This theory could be purely based on media speculation or simply a means of local war lords laying claim to land seizure purely for oil exploration and revenue , therefore funding more acts of terrorism across the globe. Either way , the whole area is a toxic mix of volatile lunatics whose sole aim is to further their own cause in whatever form that takes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:59:02 GMT
but these aren't just standard members of the public mate! you will always get absolute idiots in every country and fanatics in every religion, they're hardly the norm though. what these people are doing has nothing to do with what he was over there for, he just happened to be a westerner in the wrong place at the wrong time so the lunatics grabbed him to send a message to the west. he could equally have been a Swiss TV reporter and they'd have taken him One has to ask oneself what message they are attempting to make to the west. I've heard and read that this is not just about Islam but goes way beyond that. Several media outlets have mentioned that their ideal scenario would be to create their own homeland. A state overlapping Syria and vast areas of Iraq too. So already in order to for this state of 'Fuzzieland' to occur several armies will be at war in order to prevent this and in doing so makes the whole issue far more complicated and volatile. One cannot categorically confirm or deny this rumour but I suppose there is no smoke without fire. Who's to say that this is not necessarily a bad thing in the long term if Syria and Iraq can be convinced that this is a good thing. Personally though , I smell a rat. This theory could be purely based on media speculation or simply a means of local war lords laying claim to land seizure purely for oil exploration and revenue , therefore funding more acts of terrorism across the globe. Either way , the whole area is a toxic mix of volatile lunatics whose sole aim is to further their own cause in whatever form that takes. fuzzieland lol .your bang on theremate mental that lot we tryed our best to sort it but now they threw it back in our face
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Post by denman on Sept 15, 2014 22:20:41 GMT
One has to ask oneself what message they are attempting to make to the west. I've heard and read that this is not just about Islam but goes way beyond that. Several media outlets have mentioned that their ideal scenario would be to create their own homeland. A state overlapping Syria and vast areas of Iraq too. So already in order to for this state of 'Fuzzieland' to occur several armies will be at war in order to prevent this and in doing so makes the whole issue far more complicated and volatile. One cannot categorically confirm or deny this rumour but I suppose there is no smoke without fire. Who's to say that this is not necessarily a bad thing in the long term if Syria and Iraq can be convinced that this is a good thing. Personally though , I smell a rat. This theory could be purely based on media speculation or simply a means of local war lords laying claim to land seizure purely for oil exploration and revenue , therefore funding more acts of terrorism across the globe. Either way , the whole area is a toxic mix of volatile lunatics whose sole aim is to further their own cause in whatever form that takes. fuzzieland lol .your bang on theremate mental that lot we tryed our best to sort it but now they threw it back in our face Who are 'they'? The 1000's of Iraqis been executed every week? The ethnic minority chased up a mountain or face been beheaded?
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Post by serpico on Sept 16, 2014 8:11:32 GMT
It's fairly clear these beheadings are being used as bait to try and lure the US and friends back into the quagmire created by Bush and the neo-cons post 2003, and it looks like the west is taking the bait hook line and sinker again!.
The thing a lot of people don't understand is for the past 13 years the west has been dancing to Osama Bin Ladens tune, the whole strategy behind 9/11 was to lure the US and friends into what they termed "the Afghan trap", the same trap the russians became ensnared in during the 80's which helped bankrupt the soviet union, what OBL didn't expect was for the Bush government to hand him a huge victory by invading and destroying Iraq (at An estimated cost of $3-5 TRILLION!) and in doing so opening up a huge power vacuum, this really lit the blue touch paper and we're still living with the repercussions today, but now we also have power vacuums opening up in Libya and Syria thanks to western intervention. The Iraq war created a veritable petridish for terrorists and it's spilling over into neighboring countries.
For terrorists the action is in the reaction, these beheadings, just like 9/11, are an attempt to suck in and further bog the west down in expensive wars and all the people who support going in to take them out militarily are unwittingly allying themselves with the terrorists, it may feel manly to say "lets go in and take them out" but this is the exact response they want, this won't be solved with airstrikes so eventually they're going to have to send in ground troops, which is going to be a disaster.
"All we have to do is send two mujaheddin [...] to raise a small piece of cloth on which is written "al-Qaeda" in order to make the generals race there, to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses." OBL.
All of this could have been avoided had after 9/11 the west simply gone after OBL slit his throat and then got out of the region, instead this crazy open ended "war on terror" has opened up the gates of hell and the demons are running amok.
There is no western solution to this problem!.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 16, 2014 12:14:12 GMT
There is no western solution to this problem!. Genuinely, do we just leave them to it? Or do we still need to do something to avoid them becoming a powerful state, pretty much taking over the middle east? I don't know the answer personally. Maybe if we;d done nothing in the first place and Saddam/Gaddaffi & co. had just got on with ruling their lands it might not be an issue now.
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Post by serpico on Sept 16, 2014 12:42:24 GMT
There is no western solution to this problem!. Genuinely, do we just leave them to it? Or do we still need to do something to avoid them becoming a powerful state, pretty much taking over the middle east? I don't know the answer personally. Maybe if we;d done nothing in the first place and Saddam/Gaddaffi & co. had just got on with ruling their lands it might not be an issue now. I really don't know either, I just know there is no western solution, it will probably have to be solved by neighboring countries and other factions in that region, it's certainly not going to be solved by the people who created these tragically messy conditions in the first place. The US has been bombing Iraq for almost a quarter of a century now (first gulf war in 1990 under Bush1, bombing it all throughout the 90's under clinton, 2003 Bush 2 invasion, now Obama is starting to drop bombs on it) almost 25 years of military blundering and shortsightedness by the west has brought Iraq to it's current state of affairs and helped destabalise neighboring countries, yet more military action is just going to stir the hornets nest up more and bolster ISIS ranks, just as the Iraq war in 03 bolstered AQs ranks by orders of magnitude, It may set them back, but that is all. The beheaders want a military response from the west, that is obvious, the guy on the video might as well have just said "please come and bomb us", should we give them what they want again ?.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 16, 2014 13:01:08 GMT
Genuinely, do we just leave them to it? Or do we still need to do something to avoid them becoming a powerful state, pretty much taking over the middle east? I don't know the answer personally. Maybe if we;d done nothing in the first place and Saddam/Gaddaffi & co. had just got on with ruling their lands it might not be an issue now. I really don't know either, I just know there is no western solution, it will probably have to be solved by neighboring countries and other factions in that region, it's certainly not going to be solved by the people who created these tragically messy conditions in the first place. The US has been bombing Iraq for almost a quarter of a century now (first gulf war in 1990 under Bush1, bombing it all throughout the 90's under clinton, 2003 Bush 2 invasion, now Obama is starting to drop bombs on it) almost 25 years of military blundering and shortsightedness by the west has brought Iraq to it's current state of affairs and helped destabalise neighboring countries, yet more military action is just going to stir the hornets nest up more and bolster ISIS ranks, just as the Iraq war in 03 bolstered AQs ranks by orders of magnitude, It may set them back, but that is all. The beheaders want a military response from the west, that is obvious, the guy on the video might as well have just said "please come and bomb us", should we give them what they want again ?. the answer is NOT to do nothing though.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 16, 2014 13:14:56 GMT
It's fairly clear these beheadings are being used as bait to try and lure the US and friends back into the quagmire created by Bush and the neo-cons post 2003, and it looks like the west is taking the bait hook line and sinker again!. The thing a lot of people don't understand is for the past 13 years the west has been dancing to Osama Bin Ladens tune, the whole strategy behind 9/11 was to lure the US and friends into what they termed "the Afghan trap", the same trap the russians became ensnared in during the 80's which helped bankrupt the soviet union, what OBL didn't expect was for the Bush government to hand him a huge victory by invading and destroying Iraq (at An estimated cost of $3-5 TRILLION!) and in doing so opening up a huge power vacuum, this really lit the blue touch paper and we're still living with the repercussions today, but now we also have power vacuums opening up in Libya and Syria thanks to western intervention. The Iraq war created a veritable petridish for terrorists and it's spilling over into neighboring countries. For terrorists the action is in the reaction, these beheadings, just like 9/11, are an attempt to suck in and further bog the west down in expensive wars and all the people who support going in to take them out militarily are unwittingly allying themselves with the terrorists, it may feel manly to say "lets go in and take them out" but this is the exact response they want, this won't be solved with airstrikes so eventually they're going to have to send in ground troops, which is going to be a disaster. "All we have to do is send two mujaheddin [...] to raise a small piece of cloth on which is written "al-Qaeda" in order to make the generals race there, to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses." OBL.
All of this could have been avoided had after 9/11 the west simply gone after OBL slit his throat and then got out of the region, instead this crazy open ended "war on terror" has opened up the gates of hell and the demons are running amok. There is no western solution to this problem!. What was pretty clear from the outset from its naming and the evidence of the outcomes is that the The War On Terror is meant to be an ongoing, non-specific, self-perpetuating, endless war. The tired old miscalculations and mistakes argument, that are used to hide behind, don't wash anymore. There has been strategic planning in the region for decades by the same operatives who arrange, supply and train the "bait".
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Post by serpico on Sept 16, 2014 13:48:03 GMT
It's fairly clear these beheadings are being used as bait to try and lure the US and friends back into the quagmire created by Bush and the neo-cons post 2003, and it looks like the west is taking the bait hook line and sinker again!. The thing a lot of people don't understand is for the past 13 years the west has been dancing to Osama Bin Ladens tune, the whole strategy behind 9/11 was to lure the US and friends into what they termed "the Afghan trap", the same trap the russians became ensnared in during the 80's which helped bankrupt the soviet union, what OBL didn't expect was for the Bush government to hand him a huge victory by invading and destroying Iraq (at An estimated cost of $3-5 TRILLION!) and in doing so opening up a huge power vacuum, this really lit the blue touch paper and we're still living with the repercussions today, but now we also have power vacuums opening up in Libya and Syria thanks to western intervention. The Iraq war created a veritable petridish for terrorists and it's spilling over into neighboring countries. For terrorists the action is in the reaction, these beheadings, just like 9/11, are an attempt to suck in and further bog the west down in expensive wars and all the people who support going in to take them out militarily are unwittingly allying themselves with the terrorists, it may feel manly to say "lets go in and take them out" but this is the exact response they want, this won't be solved with airstrikes so eventually they're going to have to send in ground troops, which is going to be a disaster. "All we have to do is send two mujaheddin [...] to raise a small piece of cloth on which is written "al-Qaeda" in order to make the generals race there, to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses." OBL.
All of this could have been avoided had after 9/11 the west simply gone after OBL slit his throat and then got out of the region, instead this crazy open ended "war on terror" has opened up the gates of hell and the demons are running amok. There is no western solution to this problem!. What was pretty clear from the outset from its naming and the evidence of the outcomes is that the The War On Terror is meant to be an ongoing, non-specific, self-perpetuating, endless war. The tired old miscalculations and mistakes argument, that are used to hide behind, don't wash anymore. There has been strategic planning in the region for decades by the same operatives who arrange, supply and train the "bait". Back when the war on terror started the neocons had full control of the levers of power so they used 9/11 to push an (Israeli centric) agenda ( read " the clean break strategy" paper) I agree the war on terror is nothing more than a cover for hegemony in the middle east. But I've not seen the evidence to show the US intentionally armed and trained ISIS, US arms certainly ended up in their hands after they gave the "free syrian army" weapons to overthrow Assad, but it's just a case of policy blowback, the blowback is then used to justify more intervention, like a self licking ice cream. Terrorism is the price of empire, US policy is creating the conditions for it to thrive, is this intentional or incompetence ? it's hard to say, there are people in power who know the consequences of having a western military presence in the middle east and play dumb about it because those consequences justify even greater military intervention, but either way, incompetence or connivance, we should just oppose military intervention as solution because it's making it worse.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 16, 2014 14:03:16 GMT
The solution lies with Economic Policy not Military.
As we have seen in the Middle East on numerous occasions..bombing achieves nothing.
The way to deal with ISIS is to cut off their financial clout...confiscate Swiss bank accounts etc etc
Stop selling dodgey countries weapons.
Hit them where it really hurts
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 16, 2014 14:45:36 GMT
Stop selling dodgey countries weapons. Hit them where it really hurts IF - we (The West) stop selling them weapons and remove the money wereceive does it not hurt us though as well? Is this something that we could do relatively easily but don't because we want the money? (I'm using the Royal "we" here)
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Post by boothenpaddock86 on Sept 16, 2014 15:57:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 16:10:04 GMT
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Post by boothenpaddock86 on Sept 16, 2014 16:30:29 GMT
Yes they are quite clearly different people James Foley Beheading Hoax Anomalies - Different …:
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 16, 2014 18:42:11 GMT
Stop selling dodgey countries weapons. Hit them where it really hurts IF - we (The West) stop selling them weapons and remove the money wereceive does it not hurt us though as well? Is this something that we could do relatively easily but don't because we want the money? (I'm using the Royal "we" here) Well 'we' always use the argument that if we didn't supply the weapons somebody else would & that morality doesn't come in to it this is strictly business. Given that the Arms Trade is the second oldest profession in the world (the oldest being prostitution) some might argue that it's easier said than done. Alternatively we could stop sending weapons and supply them with prostitutes.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 16, 2014 18:54:05 GMT
IF - we (The West) stop selling them weapons and remove the money wereceive does it not hurt us though as well? Is this something that we could do relatively easily but don't because we want the money? (I'm using the Royal "we" here) Well 'we' always use the argument that if we didn't supply the weapons somebody else would & that morality doesn't come in to it this is strictly business. Given that the Arms Trade is the second oldest profession in the world (the oldest being prostitution) some might argue that it's easier said than done. Alternatively we could stop sending weapons and supply them with prostitutes. Good idea!
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 16, 2014 19:29:25 GMT
Some of these Terrorists need to chill out a bit...get out more...
What better way to start than with a bit of sex and drugs
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Post by PotteringThrough on Sept 16, 2014 19:47:14 GMT
Some of these Terrorists need to chill out a bit...get out more... What better way to start than with a bit of sex and drugs Sexual frustration could well be one of the issues that causes them to be so tetchy at times.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 16, 2014 19:48:02 GMT
Some of these Terrorists need to chill out a bit...get out more... What better way to start than with a bit of sex and drugs Send em loads of board games to keep them busy. Snakes & Ladders, Ludo, Trivial Pursuits and stuff... ....... probably best to leave out the Risk though.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 16, 2014 20:24:13 GMT
And what better way to bring out the Feminine side of a Terrorist than with a little Jihadist Action Man complete with little black flag.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 16, 2014 20:38:20 GMT
Do a line in suicide vests for them, perhaps use them cheapo bangers you got from the newsagent as a kid.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 16, 2014 20:49:24 GMT
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Post by jonah77 on Sept 16, 2014 21:13:31 GMT
IF - we (The West) stop selling them weapons and remove the money wereceive does it not hurt us though as well? Is this something that we could do relatively easily but don't because we want the money? (I'm using the Royal "we" here) Well 'we' always use the argument that if we didn't supply the weapons somebody else would & that morality doesn't come in to it this is strictly business. Given that the Arms Trade is the second oldest profession in the world (the oldest being prostitution) some might argue that it's easier said than done. Alternatively we could stop sending weapons and supply them with prostitutes. Actually the worlds oldest profession is a flint napper.
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