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Post by partickpotter on Jun 19, 2014 21:58:09 GMT
Suatez is bloody brilliant unfortunately. The only thing that would improve him is... to leave Liverpool!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 22:02:10 GMT
Sacking the manager is not the answer. We are NOT good enough. We're not a Germany or an Italy. Not even a Uruguay or a Portgual. We're a Russia, a Poland or a Ukraine. And the sooner we all realise this and the FA do something about it from the bottom the better. I don't disagree there at all, but how the hell have we managed to not compete on a level with the likes of Germany, Italy, Holland, France etc? It's obviously something 'bigger picture', more fundamental, a problem with our game and the players involved in it. I just don't get it. Right now we look worse than the likes of Croatia, I actually think that Bosnia looked more capable than us across the whole pitch. We have just got this massive, unfathomable issue that presents itself like it did tonight. You are spot on. The massive unfathomable issue is that there is no part of the way football is run in this country that is geared towards success at international level. We now have St Georges which is twenty years too late, and yes we seem to be starting to get more coaches qualified, so hopefully things will change during the next ten years. But in the meantime, we have a league system that has brought through and developed more top foreign players than English players. We have a league system that does not believe in appointing English managers or coaches. We are tactically inept at the highest level because our coaches are not good enough in Roy's case, or just not experienced enough. Time and time again we have players going to a tournament not knowing what team shape they will be playing in, and not knowing if they will even be playing as Roy admitted himself the other night. Resultantly we have know common identity in the team, no team spirit and a lack of understanding amongst the players as we are obcessed with picking whoever is doing ok for arsenal, man united or Liverpool right now. We don't have a clear system of playing at international level and even if we did we would not pick the best players for that system as we believe in individuals and not the team ethic -(for an example of how the team should work look at chile) None of the clubs in the premier league support the FA in their attempts to change things and make England successful as it does not benefit them and anyway, the FA's attempts to improve things are totally inept anyway, barring hopefully St George's and the commitment to getting thousands of qualified coaches involved in youth football. So for me, whilst the premier league and our obsession with the cult of the foreigner has a lot to answer for, the main problems are 1. Not enough young English players are given a chance in the premier league with the result that for this tournament we had no defensive midfielders to pick from and hardly any centre backs. 2.Not so long ago we had just a few thousand qualified youth coaches in this country whilst Spain had around thirty thousand, Netherlands about four or five times as much. When is the FA going to be brought to account I wonder? We are worse at our national game than the likes of Chile, Uruguay, and countless other nations who have nowhere near our resources
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 22:05:34 GMT
There can't be anyone on here who seriously thought this squad was anymore than a quarter final squad, it was a group of players that was weaker than recent England World Cup squads. They played better against Italy than I thought they would, but tonight they didn't look a team. The England manager has about 70+ players to pick from in the PL and that is an increasing problem. There were no players who were left in England that would have changed tonights result, we took the best players available in my view. If we want to improve are footballing standards we have to look at the game in England from top to bottom, at least though we qualified which many countries didn't. Sometimes in any walk of life you have to hit the bottom to rise again, there's no point making instant decisions on who is to blame, if you do that you will make the same mistakes again. Think we all had an idea how bad the defense was and wanted to ATTACK,ATTACK,ATTACK. Hopefully out scoring the other teams we play. Instead we had a must win game and woy had been saying all week we shall attack Uraguay, and instead we played defensively. Ever likely the team struggled. we didn't play in any particular way, there was no clear idea about anything we did. Agsinst Italy we had no one pressing the ball, it was so naïve it was unbelievable, we gifted two goals when we weren't put under pressure. Tonight again we have gifted a soft defeat. We are poor at the moment but hodgson has a lot to answer for, and so does gary Neville because tactically we were fucking incompetent in both games.
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Post by brownsauce on Jun 19, 2014 22:24:33 GMT
Henderson has done square route of nothing in this tournament, i cant believe he has got the game time he has.
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Post by kristoff on Jun 19, 2014 23:02:36 GMT
I don't disagree there at all, but how the hell have we managed to not compete on a level with the likes of Germany, Italy, Holland, France etc? It's obviously something 'bigger picture', more fundamental, a problem with our game and the players involved in it. I just don't get it. Right now we look worse than the likes of Croatia, I actually think that Bosnia looked more capable than us across the whole pitch. We have just got this massive, unfathomable issue that presents itself like it did tonight. You are spot on. The massive unfathomable issue is that there is no part of the way football is run in this country that is geared towards success at international level. We now have St Georges which is twenty years too late, and yes we seem to be starting to get more coaches qualified, so hopefully things will change during the next ten years. But in the meantime, we have a league system that has brought through and developed more top foreign players than English players. We have a league system that does not believe in appointing English managers or coaches. We are tactically inept at the highest level because our coaches are not good enough in Roy's case, or just not experienced enough. Time and time again we have players going to a tournament not knowing what team shape they will be playing in, and not knowing if they will even be playing as Roy admitted himself the other night. Resultantly we have know common identity in the team, no team spirit and a lack of understanding amongst the players as we are obcessed with picking whoever is doing ok for arsenal, man united or Liverpool right now. We don't have a clear system of playing at international level and even if we did we would not pick the best players for that system as we believe in individuals and not the team ethic -(for an example of how the team should work look at chile) None of the clubs in the premier league support the FA in their attempts to change things and make England successful as it does not benefit them and anyway, the FA's attempts to improve things are totally inept anyway, barring hopefully St George's and the commitment to getting thousands of qualified coaches involved in youth football. So for me, whilst the premier league and our obsession with the cult of the foreigner has a lot to answer for, the main problems are 1. Not enough young English players are given a chance in the premier league with the result that for this tournament we had no defensive midfielders to pick from and hardly any centre backs. 2.Not so long ago we had just a few thousand qualified youth coaches in this country whilst Spain had around thirty thousand, Netherlands about four or five times as much. When is the FA going to be brought to account I wonder? We are worse at our national game than the likes of Chile, Uruguay, and countless other nations who have nowhere near our resources Makes you wonder when the FA became so toothless. I dont know much about how other countries run their leagues, but surely no other country lets their clubs dictate how the league is run to the degree that we do
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 20, 2014 0:01:00 GMT
The team had no shape, no clue and no class.
Hard work and organistion can cover for lack of class as we have all seen over recent years.
You could pick 11 of the best players in the world and they'd still lose a few if they were as badly organised as that shower of shite that wore England shirts tonight.
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Post by Spiros on Jun 20, 2014 5:36:57 GMT
To all those who dreamed that England could play like Spain your dreams have come true
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 20, 2014 6:04:12 GMT
But we won the possessions
That's what matters right...? Right..?
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Post by jarhead on Jun 20, 2014 6:20:55 GMT
Wank players Wank tactics Wank manager Wank methods
Basically the whole England setup with jobs for the boys is wank.
Now England seriously Fuck Off you over hyped gutless spineless clueless cunts!
Fuck em
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jun 20, 2014 6:36:06 GMT
I remember a debate on Sky between Neville and Carragher about who was better, Scholes, Gerrard or Lampard. What we saw last night was the limitations Of Gerrard and Henderson at controlling a game against difficult opponents. Both are athletes who run into the space afforded them in the Premier League, reacting to events. Squeezed for space they succeeded in demonstrating how right Gary Neville was, Scholes was the only player of this generation capable of controlling a top level game. The idea at 34 Gerrard could someone morph into a Pirlo is laughable and last night laid it bare. Look at last night's team, compare them with Italia 90 and only Sturridge would have a case for starting and even then it would be close as Beardsley played so well with Lineker, not on edefender or midfielder would be close - that is how far off the level required this team is
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 6:41:48 GMT
I can't remember ever seeing an England team so utterly disorganised and shambolic in defence. Cahill is practically doing it alone.
Which is strange because we appointed Hodgson to give us organisation and solidity, and to grind out results.
If Hodgson is going to change the habits of a lifetime and re-invent himself as Guardiola - we may as well appoint a manager who knows this system inside out and has demonstrated that he is capable of implementing it.
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Post by kristoff on Jun 20, 2014 6:49:26 GMT
Amazes me how there is all this focus on 'new' systems. The dutch seemed to manage an 'outdated' 5-3-2 to batter spain last week. The formation was absolute wank. All i ask for from a manager is picking your spine (if more than 1 or 2 members of this squad have one that is) putting a formation together using that spine, putting them in their correct positions then picking a TEAM to fill it.
Not one of those things has happened over the last 2 years.
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Post by vahl on Jun 20, 2014 7:00:19 GMT
You can look through my post history to see what I've said about England & St. Georges Park recently but, last night had nothing to do with anything other than a lack of pride.
Gary Neville described our performance vs Italy as the best he had seen in 15 years of watching England - well last night was the worst performance I've seen from England in 15 years. Lack of desire, lack of heart, lack of control, lack of skill, lack of anything. Very very poor.
We bottled it when it matters most (surprise surprise) and back to the drawing board it is.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jun 20, 2014 7:08:31 GMT
Do Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have tge best defences? Not in my opinion and they certainly do not have the best English defenders yet that is the main pool we select from.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jun 20, 2014 7:21:09 GMT
Can anyone tell me why Wellbeck was playing? What does he give to the team?
Also, as bad as we were, we created chances. Rooney and Sturridge should have got at least 2 goals between them. I think Lambert might have given Uruguay trouble in the air, but he was chucked on too late.
I think overall this game highlighted two things: First, the "stars" we see in The Premier League aren't as good as wankers like Hansen and Lineker make out. Secondly, we don't have a manager who can devise a system to make the most of our strengths, and hide our weaknesses.
On a brighter note: My Chile bet is still on!
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Post by kurt on Jun 20, 2014 7:55:56 GMT
Your hope is called Italy now
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jun 20, 2014 8:10:19 GMT
Can anyone tell me why Wellbeck was playing? What does he give to the team? Also, as bad as we were, we created chances. Rooney and Sturridge should have got at least 2 goals between them. I think Lambert might have given Uruguay trouble in the air, but he was chucked on too late. I think overall this game highlighted two things: First, the "stars" we see in The Premier League aren't as good as wankers like Hansen and Lineker make out. Secondly, we don't have a manager who can devise a system to make the most of our strengths, and hide our weaknesses. On a brighter note: My Chile bet is still on! To be fair it's not Woy's fault it's the Daily Mirror's. They pick the team and tactics and Woy just makes the phone calls and writes up the white board.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 20, 2014 8:11:56 GMT
Now, I got a bit of stick for suggesting that Liverpool not winning the league would have an impact on the way England performed. Am I right? Sturridge aside and Sterling for the first half of the Italy game, the Liverpool lot have been poor. Gerrard especially.
I couldn't be arsed to even get worked up about it. Thank God Stoke had a good season and we have something to look forward to. I went in not knowing what to expect but we got what we always get! Players shoe-horned into a formation that doesn't suit them with no forward movement & substitutions being made at the wrong times for the wrong players. Lambert would have been on before 60 minutes for me. The Italy game we were OK but last night was just garbage.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jun 20, 2014 8:29:57 GMT
Now, I got a bit of stick for suggesting that Liverpool not winning the league would have an impact on the way England performed". Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/231635/uruguay-england?page=19#ixzz35ALOHSKYI'm with you on that. Thought the same myself. Think it shattered "Stevie G" (jesus..does that get on my tits).. He looked, even before the Italy game, a dispirited man. Henderson just reacts to him. Keep banging on about it but ... mental strength. (we aint got none)
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Post by starkiller on Jun 20, 2014 8:46:51 GMT
Now, I got a bit of stick for suggesting that Liverpool not winning the league would have an impact on the way England performed". Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/231635/uruguay-england?page=19#ixzz35ALOHSKYI'm with you on that. Thought the same myself. Think it shattered "Stevie G" (jesus..does that get on my tits).. He looked, even before the Italy game, a dispirited man. Henderson just reacts to him. Keep banging on about it but ... mental strength. (we aint got none) One thing is for certain. England has the best "excuse factory" in the world.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jun 20, 2014 8:57:37 GMT
Now, I got a bit of stick for suggesting that Liverpool not winning the league would have an impact on the way England performed". Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/231635/uruguay-england?page=19#ixzz35ALOHSKYI'm with you on that. Thought the same myself. Think it shattered "Stevie G" (jesus..does that get on my tits).. He looked, even before the Italy game, a dispirited man. Henderson just reacts to him. Keep banging on about it but ... mental strength. (we aint got none) One thing is for certain. England has the best "excuse factory" in the world. It's not an excuse (if that's what you're implying) ... it's my opinion that our superstars haven't got what it takes in the psychological stakes to compete in these major tournaments. I think the time for excuses is over.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 20, 2014 21:29:52 GMT
Jock on the right ...
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Post by miltonstokie on Jun 20, 2014 21:33:53 GMT
Wank players Wank tactics Wank manager Wank methods Basically the whole England setup with jobs for the boys is wank. Now England seriously Fuck Off you over hyped gutless spineless clueless cunts! Fuck em Dunner worry Greg Dyke from the BBC will sort it
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jun 20, 2014 21:40:11 GMT
Let's see it for what it actually is shall we. People keep saying we were good against Italy but aren't we forgetting that the ONLY game Italy have won in the past 6 months or more is against ENGLAND. They couldn't even beat Luxemburg recently and they've now lost to Costa Rica since beating England. So we were 'good' against a team that can't beat any fucker bar us....Great! and even then....we fucking lost.
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