|
Post by nik80 on May 13, 2014 10:37:10 GMT
Nicole begovic getting involved One for all and all for one She has more than has a point mate, it's a fucking travesty. EVEN IF Ryan didn't get the call up, to not actually even get a mention by ANY pundit is just unfathomable. Really feel for the kid, other than move club, what more can he possibly do?
|
|
|
Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 13, 2014 10:40:59 GMT
The only thing he can do.... Is the one we don't want him to do
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on May 13, 2014 12:01:37 GMT
Roy will soon be on the plane back from Brazil and getting the sack for his abject FAILURE!
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on May 13, 2014 12:08:13 GMT
He should have played for Wales. I would quite happily see Ryan Shawcross captain Wales and beat us tbh. I've been discontent with the way England has gone for a long time. I suppose it goes all the way back to 98 when Gazza was dropped. I remember being absolutely livid. How could they drop Gazza?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 12:11:36 GMT
Chart with Cahill included. I do wonder about the comments I keep seeing about Ryan never getting over Zlatan. He seems to have got better and better to me, just as Cahill has after being embarrassed by Kenwyne Jones at Wembley.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 13, 2014 12:15:03 GMT
He should have played for Wales. I would quite happily see Ryan Shawcross captain Wales and beat us tbh. I've been discontent with the way England has gone for a long time. I suppose it goes all the way back to 98 when Gazza was dropped. I remember being absolutely livid. How could they drop Gazza? Because he was an over the hill, injury prone, overweight, mentally ill, alcoholic mess and a distraction to the other players? Hoddle did the right thing, and I say that genuinely as a huge fan of Paul Gascoigne.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on May 13, 2014 12:30:53 GMT
He should have played for Wales. I would quite happily see Ryan Shawcross captain Wales and beat us tbh. I've been discontent with the way England has gone for a long time. I suppose it goes all the way back to 98 when Gazza was dropped. I remember being absolutely livid. How could they drop Gazza? Because he was an over the hill, injury prone, overweight, mentally ill, alcoholic mess and a distraction to the other players? Hoddle did the right thing, and I say that genuinely as a huge fan of Paul Gascoigne. Totally disagree. Gazza wasn't over the hill by that point and while he was an alcoholic, we missed his talisman effect at France.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 13, 2014 12:35:14 GMT
Because he was an over the hill, injury prone, overweight, mentally ill, alcoholic mess and a distraction to the other players? Hoddle did the right thing, and I say that genuinely as a huge fan of Paul Gascoigne. Totally disagree. Gazza wasn't over the hill by that point and while he was an alcoholic, we missed his talisman effect at France. Fair enough, but for me, we had better options at the time in Paul Scholes and David Beckham. Gazza was never the same after this injury in 1991. Prior to that, I think for a short while he was one of the very best players in the world.
|
|
|
Post by Stretfordpotterer on May 13, 2014 12:39:09 GMT
Totally disagree. Gazza wasn't over the hill by that point and while he was an alcoholic, we missed his talisman effect at France. Fair enough, but for me, we had better options at the time in Paul Scholes and David Beckham. Gazza was never the same after this injury in 1991. Prior to that, I think for a short while he was one of the very best players in the world. Now the way Paul Scholes was used at international level, now there is a real footballing tragedy if ever there was one, Englands starting 11 could/should have been built around Paul Scholes for the best part of 3 world cups and 2 euros. Instead successive managers preferred to built there midfields around the inferior and incompatible Gerrard and Lampard.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 13, 2014 12:42:11 GMT
Fair enough, but for me, we had better options at the time in Paul Scholes and David Beckham. Gazza was never the same after this injury in 1991. Prior to that, I think for a short while he was one of the very best players in the world. Now the way Paul Scholes was used at international level, now there is a real footballing tragedy if ever there was one, Englands starting 11 could/should have been built around Paul Scholes for the best part of 3 world cups and 2 euros. Instead successive managers preferred to built there midfields around the inferior and incompatible Gerrard and Lampard. Yep, shoehorned in on the left hand side to accomadate Gerrard and Lampard. Scholes was as talented as he was under-rated. It seems that he is appreciated far more now that he has retired.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on May 13, 2014 12:43:50 GMT
Now the way Paul Scholes was used at international level, now there is a real footballing tragedy if ever there was one, Englands starting 11 could/should have been built around Paul Scholes for the best part of 3 world cups and 2 euros. Instead successive managers preferred to built there midfields around the inferior and incompatible Gerrard and Lampard. Yep, shoehorned in on the left hand side to accomadate Gerrard and Lampard. Scholes was as talented as he was under-rated. It seems that he is appreciated far more now that he has retired. Now this I do agree with.
|
|
|
Post by Danstoke82 on May 13, 2014 12:47:35 GMT
Its astonishing as to how the England manager believes a player like Chris Smalling who is in and out of an average United side is worthy of a place within the World Cup Squad.
Also the fact that a player who has never played at senior level and is regarded as back-up, John Stones, is placed on stand by when Ryan is completely overlooked.
|
|
|
Post by jezzascfc on May 13, 2014 13:01:31 GMT
My worry is that Ryan will think he will not get picked for England again whilst at Stoke and decides to move this summer to try to reignite his England career. I mean, look at Cahill, not a game whilst at Villa or Bolton, but a regular since his move to Chelski.
|
|
|
Post by lastoftheldk on May 13, 2014 13:28:58 GMT
My worry is that Ryan will think he will not get picked for England again whilst at Stoke and decides to move this summer to try to reignite his England career. I mean, look at Cahill, not a game whilst at Villa or Bolton, but a regular since his move to Chelski. Where do you think he would go. ?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 13:35:53 GMT
I think Ryan's time has probably passed now. There was a point when he could have been slowly integrated into the England squad, and it started to happen - on the day of the Ramsey incident. That caused everyone to step back and reassess, Cahill got in, Ryan had another look in but he was clearly nervous, and clearly hung out to dry against the best centre forward in the world.
Shawcross has developed further and I'd argue that he would step into an England squad with confidence now, and thrive, but he's 28 by the next Euros and I expect they'll be going down the Stones route now.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 13:40:25 GMT
My worry is that Ryan will think he will not get picked for England again whilst at Stoke and decides to move this summer to try to reignite his England career. I mean, look at Cahill, not a game whilst at Villa or Bolton, but a regular since his move to Chelski. Where do you think he would go. ? this is the thing really despite many on here thinking he's the messiah and no-one on the planet even comes close to him, for him to move on then someone needs to make an offer. we've spent the last few years terrified that he'll go on somewhere else but as yet....still no offers made by any other Prem club. i think that re-inforces what MarkWolstanton has said about Ryan and his seeming God like status at CB being nothing other than a Stokie love in..that isn't slagging him off, i'm more than happy for him to spend the rest of his career here but it does seem strange that the player who is apparently "The Best CB in the Prem" hasn't been courted by anyone at all since we came up doesn't it? or have all the other 19 teams got this apparent "Anyone but Stoke" bias as well as Hodgson?
|
|
|
Post by Stretfordpotterer on May 13, 2014 13:50:01 GMT
Where do you think he would go. ? this is the thing really despite many on here thinking he's the messiah and no-one on the planet even comes close to him, for him to move on then someone needs to make an offer. we've spent the last few years terrified that he'll go on somewhere else but as yet....still no offers made by any other Prem club. i think that re-inforces what MarkWolstanton has said about Ryan and his seeming God like status at CB being nothing other than a Stokie love in..that isn't slagging him off, i'm more than happy for him to spend the rest of his career here but it does seem strange that the player who is apparently "The Best CB in the Prem" hasn't been courted by anyone at all since we came up doesn't it? or have all the other 19 teams got this apparent "Anyone but Stoke" bias as well as Hodgson? I think there are a couple of reasons for that, the main one being that this is the first season he's really been given the opportunity to prove he is capable of playing out from the back, and defending without two very deep defensive midfielders. I believe he has proven he can do that and then some, if there was ever a time for his merits to be re-evaluated from an international perspetcive, and from that of any potential suitors, then it's now. But working against him now is his age, only 26 but quite old to be splashing the sort of cash that would get him away from stoke. That price tag is the other thing that works against him, Stoke don't need to sell, he has a long term deal and that adds up to a bumper transfer fee. I think a few of the bigger clubs might have taken a punt on him if he was likely to come a bit cheaper.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on May 13, 2014 13:52:42 GMT
I think the only person I'd have taken him instead of is Smalling, other than that I think Roy has it right, should be on the stand by list though.
|
|
|
Post by greyman on May 13, 2014 13:57:25 GMT
Where do you think he would go. ? this is the thing really despite many on here thinking he's the messiah and no-one on the planet even comes close to him, for him to move on then someone needs to make an offer. we've spent the last few years terrified that he'll go on somewhere else but as yet....still no offers made by any other Prem club. i think that re-inforces what MarkWolstanton has said about Ryan and his seeming God like status at CB being nothing other than a Stokie love in..that isn't slagging him off, i'm more than happy for him to spend the rest of his career here but it does seem strange that the player who is apparently "The Best CB in the Prem" hasn't been courted by anyone at all since we came up doesn't it? or have all the other 19 teams got this apparent "Anyone but Stoke" bias as well as Hodgson? There's probably something in that but equally the England manager hung him out to dry when he was brought on as a sub against Sweden. It was no way to judge a player at International level and Hodgson should be ashamed. I don't know whether it was Hodgson or Cahill who decided he should go up against Zlatan but completely unfair to judge him thereafter.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 14:02:18 GMT
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on May 13, 2014 14:04:43 GMT
this is the thing really despite many on here thinking he's the messiah and no-one on the planet even comes close to him, for him to move on then someone needs to make an offer. we've spent the last few years terrified that he'll go on somewhere else but as yet....still no offers made by any other Prem club. i think that re-inforces what MarkWolstanton has said about Ryan and his seeming God like status at CB being nothing other than a Stokie love in..that isn't slagging him off, i'm more than happy for him to spend the rest of his career here but it does seem strange that the player who is apparently "The Best CB in the Prem" hasn't been courted by anyone at all since we came up doesn't it? or have all the other 19 teams got this apparent "Anyone but Stoke" bias as well as Hodgson? There's probably something in that but equally the England manager hung him out to dry when he was brought on as a sub against Sweden. It was no way to judge a player at International level and Hodgson should be ashamed. I don't know whether it was Hodgson or Cahill who decided he should go up against Zlatan but completely unfair to judge him thereafter. He had more than that to judge him on though, I just think he mustn't have been impressed with what he saw in training, I doubt he's being judged on a few mins against one of the best in the world after being screwed by Cahill
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 13, 2014 14:05:12 GMT
Yep, shoehorned in on the left hand side to accomadate Gerrard and Lampard. Scholes was as talented as he was under-rated. It seems that he is appreciated far more now that he has retired. Now this I do agree with. Scholes underated? Don't think so. He may not have done ads for Armani underpants, but he's known (and regarded) all over the world as being one of the best ever English midfielders.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on May 13, 2014 14:10:28 GMT
This 'not suited to International football' nonsense pushed about by some Stokies is simply pie in the sky bollocks based on absolutely nothing.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 14:14:53 GMT
This 'not suited to International football' nonsense pushed about by some Stokies is simply pie in the sky bollocks based on absolutely nothing. and equally.... this idea that he's the best in the Premiership and should be first on the WC team sheet despite no other club ever having bid for him and no-one at all apart from Stoke fans calling for him to be in there is based on absolutely nothing other than Stoke fans who have decided that they know far more about football than international and domestic football managers
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on May 13, 2014 14:15:18 GMT
It makes no sense whatsoever. What does it even mean? It's hardly as Phil Jagielkia is Franz Beckenbauer. He's pretty much just a defender and nobody levels that bollocks at him.
Carlos Puyol is probably about as robust as they come and he won absolutely everything there is to win so, yeah, it's a load of bollocks.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 14:16:59 GMT
This 'not suited to International football' nonsense pushed about by some Stokies is simply pie in the sky bollocks based on absolutely nothing. I don't get that at all. In a world where Diego Lugano is captain of the Uruguay team (who we expect to beat us), where Geoff Cameron will probably do a decent job for a team ranked alongside England - I think Ryan would be OK.
|
|
|
Post by jezzascfc on May 13, 2014 14:18:07 GMT
My worry is that Ryan will think he will not get picked for England again whilst at Stoke and decides to move this summer to try to reignite his England career. I mean, look at Cahill, not a game whilst at Villa or Bolton, but a regular since his move to Chelski. Where do you think he would go. ? Man Utd have just lost two centre backs, and the others left are hardly covering themselves in glory. It will depend on who the new boss is - LVG may have a more continental taste in signings - but he was brought up playing there and there was always rumours, never totally dismissed, that they had first refusal if he ever left Stoke.
|
|
|
Post by coates on May 13, 2014 14:31:24 GMT
This 'not suited to International football' nonsense pushed about by some Stokies is simply pie in the sky bollocks based on absolutely nothing. and equally.... this idea that he's the best in the Premiership and should be first on the WC team sheet despite no other club ever having bid for him and no-one at all apart from Stoke fans calling for him to be in there is based on absolutely nothing other than Stoke fans who have decided that they know far more about football than international and domestic football managers i suppose having this reputation of being a "thug" and being known for that "tackle" doesn't help him being picked at international level either . i have to agree with you somewhat, i don't think fans from other teams really rate shawcross at all, whether it be the fact he isn't amazing with the ball at his feet i'am not sure.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 14:38:32 GMT
and equally.... this idea that he's the best in the Premiership and should be first on the WC team sheet despite no other club ever having bid for him and no-one at all apart from Stoke fans calling for him to be in there is based on absolutely nothing other than Stoke fans who have decided that they know far more about football than international and domestic football managers i suppose having this reputation of being a "thug" and being known for that "tackle" doesn't help him being picked at international level either . i have to agree with you somewhat, i don't think fans from other teams really rate shawcross at all, whether it be the fact he isn't amazing with the ball at his feet i'am not sure. There's certainly the 'Pulis syndrome' with Ryan and opposing fans views of him. He'd have to leave Stoke to ever be reassessed by the majority of those. You'd hope that those within the game can see beyond that though, but even Hughes recently stated that he was surprised by Ryan's ability (and saw that our style could evolve) when he first saw him in training. Hodgson has his opinions though. Smalling is clearly his project from Fulham - it's annoying, but understandable, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on May 13, 2014 15:08:11 GMT
Now this I do agree with. Scholes underated? Don't think so. He may not have done ads for Armani underpants, but he's known (and regarded) all over the world as being one of the best ever English midfielders. No, the way Scholes International career was basically fucked up by successive England managers trying to somehow accommodate the golden pair of Gerrard and Lampard. The best English central midfield pairing I've seen in the last 15 years was World Cup 2002, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes. In a lot of ways, it's strange that England didn't adopt that pairing at Euro 2004, especially with Nicky Butt probably playing the best football of his career at that time, however the media thing about Lampard and Gerrard had already begun by this point. The Golden Generation. What a load of old shit. Who knows what we might have achieved if Scholes hadn't retired so early, yet it's no surprise. The guy had been ballsed around enough and ultimately had enough.
|
|