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Post by Lakeland Potter on May 27, 2014 13:01:20 GMT
Mmmm - shows up those claims from the Liverpool "ITKs" of the fee the clubs had "agreed", to be the bollox they were. There have been a lot of people saying that a fee has been agreed, but it looks they were considerably wide of the mark. I would be very disappointed if Assaidi did not sign, however no way on this earth should we pay anything greater than £5m, it's simply too much. Yes, I'd be happy with £4 million plus £1 million in add ons.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on May 27, 2014 13:03:01 GMT
They signed Iago Aspas and Luis Alberto for ~ £7m each so perhaps they think that £7m is the going rate for a youngish foreign winger who can't get anywhere near their starting XI!
I quite like Assaidi but given he's had knee injuries since coming to us I think even £5m is a high asking price. £7m is a piss take, but perhaps they think that if we don't have him then someone else will - maybe one of the promoted sides. I'm not sure a massive queue is going to form for him so I'd play the long game of brinkmanship on this one - they want him off the wage bill more than anything you'd think.
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on May 27, 2014 13:04:53 GMT
Mmmm - shows up those claims from the Liverpool "ITKs" of the fee the clubs had "agreed", to be the bollox they were. There have been a lot of people saying that a fee has been agreed, but it looks they were considerably wide of the mark. I would be very disappointed if Assaidi did not sign, however no way on this earth should we pay anything greater than £5m, it's simply too much. anything greater!!! anything near more like. I think a couple of big goals and one stellar performance have made people go a little misty eyed regarding assaidi. The stand out moments were so good they've blinded people to a lot of mediocre performances. With wingers, if they have a bad game, then i at least want them to be involved as Arnie always is, if things go badly he's spraying passes all over the show, losing his rag, running straight into the defender, but he's always noticabley getting involved. Assaidi on the other hand, when he wasn't playing well you wouldn't have noticed he was there. I'd have him in for 3 million but anything more than that and we're getting diddled.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 13:09:36 GMT
Not even June and my head's spinning. Get told a fee's agreed, then this shows up. Wonderful.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on May 27, 2014 13:09:38 GMT
Pay it, sign him up, we know he'll be a good fit which offsets the risk of signing someone who might flop. Should look at it as Bardsley, Diouf and Assaidi for a combined £7m in transfer fees and it looks fine.
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Post by jbstokie on May 27, 2014 13:16:18 GMT
£7m for a winger without a single assist all season who has done nothing to warrant costing more than what Liverpool paid for him. Fuck off.
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Post by heavysoul on May 27, 2014 13:16:51 GMT
Liverpool pricing Assaidi out of a move 7 million is a joke!
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Post by mrcoke on May 27, 2014 13:17:17 GMT
Liverpool are purely looking to others to fund their shopping for top players. It shows how vital it is to cultivate relationships with players ending contracts and developing your own talent.
Obviously the next step is to try and "go the extra mile" for Riviere and if successful it strengthens Stoke's bargaining position.
If Stoke don't secure a player who can play wide then it's a case of who blinks first to get Assaidi and may be one of those 11th hour jobs, or loan him again, the risk being that a club less frugal than Stoke could step in and snap him up.
Assaidi is good but not that good and Stoke will not get a full season out of him, IMO as he is a bit fragile, like a lot of wingers.
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Post by unknown182 on May 27, 2014 13:24:02 GMT
£5m is the most i would pay. I'm sure we could haggle down the price because they obviously don't want him.
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Post by jeycov on May 27, 2014 13:25:09 GMT
Pay it, sign him up, we know he'll be a good fit which offsets the risk of signing someone who might flop. Should look at it as Bardsley, Diouf and Assaidi for a combined £7m in transfer fees and it looks fine. That's a positive way of looking at the situation - even another years loan? but unlikely if Liverpool want to cash in We've see a glimpse of his potential this season, he's not had lots of playing time, if MH and co think he's worth the investment then we should negotiate for a deal. Unlike Bardsley and Diouf (riviere and whoever else gets linked with us) we've seen Assaidi play and he seems to like the club
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on May 27, 2014 13:59:11 GMT
I'd rather Assaidi because if we're gonna be signing a load of players, he's not really a "new face", as you say Jeycov, he's already a part of the squad, so there's less danger of a lack of cohesion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 27, 2014 14:13:22 GMT
If Liverpool had paid £6 or £7 million for him and he'd ended up here on loan and had had EXACTLY the same season he has had with us, then would we think he was worth more now than most of us seem to do?
Is our perception of what he's worth influenced by what Liverpool originally paid for him?
We paid what £2 or £3 million for Arnie, what will he be worth now or even what will he be worth in 12 months time?
I guess we have to consider Assaidi's potential when attempting to establish what we want to pay for him now.
Having said all that, personally I haven't really got a clue what he's worth.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 14:24:35 GMT
It's a tricky one to gauge. From Liverpool's point of view you're looking at a young, creative player, who has a trick in him and has shown he can score goals in the Premier League, and is a known fit for the buying club. Stoke see a player they really like, but cost £2.4m and will need to be nurtured and developed. Add-ons and/or selling percentage has the be the way to go, you'd think. Magath's decision to play a rookie CB at RB is going to cost us millions, I fear.
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Post by Olgrligm on May 27, 2014 14:35:28 GMT
If Liverpool had paid £6 or £7 million for him and he'd ended up here on loan and had had EXACTLY the same season he has had with us, then would we think he was worth more now than most of us seem to do?
Is our perception of what he's worth influenced by what Liverpool originally paid for him?
We paid what £2 or £3 million for Arnie, what will he be worth now or even what will he be worth in 12 months time?
I guess we have to consider Assaidi's potential when attempting to establish what we want to pay for him now.
Having said all that, personally I haven't really got a clue what he's worth.
How much potential though? He's not a promising young player anymore, he's 25 and he's been in this country a while. 19 games last season, 4 goals and 0 assists hardly screams £7,000,000 worth and if he's on the fringes of our first team he's definitely nowhere near Liverpool's, so it's hardly as if he's a valuable asset.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 27, 2014 14:40:24 GMT
Don't think him absolutely murdering Fulham's left-footed 6' 7" monster at full-back has helped us out much.
It wasn't really representative of his season - but was the last memory that anyone has of him. Rodgers probably thinks he can get cheeky now.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 14:40:34 GMT
£7m is on the high side but it isn’t a million miles away. It boils down to how much we want him, and I’d say he’s easily worth £5m. Maybe £6m at a push.
His goal scoring record equates to around 1 in 5 and if he hadn’t have missed a few months of the season through injury, he’d have ended up near the 10 goal barrier (assuming he maintained his rate of scoring, which I see no reason to suggest he wouldn’t have). He’s about to reach the part of his career which most people consider to be the “peak years” and, most importantly of all, he has pace to burn. A goal scoring wide man, with pacem, is an extremely valuable asset to have!
In a world where we’ve spent millions on the likes of Sonko, Davies, Soares, Tonge, Arismendi and Palacios, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest Liverpool would use £7m as a starting point for negotiations. Hopefully Carto and Scholes can knock them down to £5m plus a 10” pepperoni.
I’d rather us pay slightly over the odds for a player that could be key for us and represent a significant step forward, than shell out on players that just add to the deadwood that we’ve carried over the years.
£7m maybe too high but I think £3m is also too low. Somewhere in the middle is about right, and hopefully we’ll get him in.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on May 27, 2014 14:41:22 GMT
If Liverpool had paid £6 or £7 million for him and he'd ended up here on loan and had had EXACTLY the same season he has had with us, then would we think he was worth more now than most of us seem to do?
Is our perception of what he's worth influenced by what Liverpool originally paid for him?
We paid what £2 or £3 million for Arnie, what will he be worth now or even what will he be worth in 12 months time?
I guess we have to consider Assaidi's potential when attempting to establish what we want to pay for him now.
Having said all that, personally I haven't really got a clue what he's worth.
It's pretty much impossible to come up with the definitive worth of a footballer isn't it. Intrinsically they signed him for £2.4m (source: wiki), barely played him, bought two players for £7m each to replace him and then loaned him out - by their own definition he's not as good as those two. They clearly haven't changed their minds about him being good enough or they wouldn't be loaning him out, so it's difficult to see where the come up with £7m (if indeed it isn't paper bullshit). Even if they'd paid £7m for him that valuation would be based upon him being a player who could improve a bigger club than Stoke, which he hasn't done and will likely never do, so I think again you'd have to say his value has depreciated. Extrinsically you can compare him to Arnie being better than Assaidi and a steal at ~£2m, or Jarvis being a comparative flop at £10m. Such benchmarks aren't of much use at all but obviously play some part in transfer dealings.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on May 27, 2014 14:45:35 GMT
His goal scoring record equates to around 1 in 5 and if he hadn’t have missed a few months of the season through injury, he’d have ended up near the 10 goal barrier (assuming he maintained his rate of scoring, which I see no reason to suggest he wouldn’t have). I'd argue the fact he got injured decreases his value though. A speed merchant developing a knee injury which then recurred isn't the best indicator that he'll be the best long term investment! Of course it could be nothing, but it increases the risk around signing him.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 27, 2014 14:49:18 GMT
If Liverpool had paid £6 or £7 million for him and he'd ended up here on loan and had had EXACTLY the same season he has had with us, then would we think he was worth more now than most of us seem to do?
Is our perception of what he's worth influenced by what Liverpool originally paid for him?
We paid what £2 or £3 million for Arnie, what will he be worth now or even what will he be worth in 12 months time?
I guess we have to consider Assaidi's potential when attempting to establish what we want to pay for him now.
Having said all that, personally I haven't really got a clue what he's worth.
How much potential though? He's not a promising young player anymore, he's 25 and he's been in this country a while. 19 games last season, 4 goals and 0 assists hardly screams £7,000,000 worth and if he's on the fringes of our first team he's definitely nowhere near Liverpool's, so it's hardly as if he's a valuable asset.
As I said, I haven't got a clue what he's worth and I haven't for a minute suggested that he IS worth £7 million.
If we're saying he hasn't really got any potential to get any better and will be pretty much a back up player who won't ever be worth more than £3 million or so, then fine but is that what we're saying?
If we are, then for the life of me I can't figure out why so many people are arsed about whether we sign him nor not.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 14:54:19 GMT
His goal scoring record equates to around 1 in 5 and if he hadn’t have missed a few months of the season through injury, he’d have ended up near the 10 goal barrier (assuming he maintained his rate of scoring, which I see no reason to suggest he wouldn’t have). I'd argue the fact he got injured decreases his value though. A speed merchant developing a knee injury which then recurred isn't the best indicator that he'll be the best long term investment! Of course it could be nothing, but it increases the risk around signing him. There’s risk with all signings. For me, the bottom line is that if we don’t sign Assaidi, then we’ll need to sign another of the same ilk over the summer. Getting a player with pace to burn, who has proven he can score goals in the Premier League, will be difficult for the sums of money being discussed. You could argue that his 5 goals this season were more to do with temporary form and that he wouldn’t replicate that ratio going forward. I’ve seen enough to think he can keep scoring goals though, and I think he’s worth at least £5m in the current market.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 27, 2014 14:56:40 GMT
I'd argue the fact he got injured decreases his value though. A speed merchant developing a knee injury which then recurred isn't the best indicator that he'll be the best long term investment! Of course it could be nothing, but it increases the risk around signing him. There’s risk with all signings. For me, the bottom line is that if we don’t sign Assaidi, then we’ll need to sign another of the same ilk over the summer. Getting a player with pace to burn, who has proven he can score goals in the Premier League, will be difficult for the sums of money being discussed. You could argue that his 5 goals this season were more to do with temporary form and that he wouldn’t replicate that ratio going forward. I’ve seen enough to think he can keep scoring goals though, and I think he’s worth at least £5m in the current market.
I think this is a pretty sound logic.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 14:57:16 GMT
Don't think him absolutely murdering Fulham's left-footed 6' 7" monster at full-back has helped us out much. It wasn't really representative of his season - but was the last memory that anyone has of him. Rodgers probably thinks he can get cheeky now. True. It catapulted him straight into a 'top 5 signings of the season' list in one of the nationals. Which is clearly nonsense. I do believe something has clicked with him though, which we nearly managed to conceal with his injury - we might really regret not getting him signed up. Hughes probably knows his exact worth far better than us though, due to circumstances he's spent far more time on the training pitch than playing field.
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Post by onionman on May 27, 2014 14:59:17 GMT
This is just Brendan Rodgers bargaining in the manner of a market trader in Thailand who sells flip-flops to tourists from Britain. He's probably budgeted to get 3.5 million in his kitty, so has set his initial asking price at double that figure.
We have to barter like the skillful tourist flip-flop buyer. Wave 3.5 million in his face, say "Final Offer" and pretend to walkaway ... walk really slowly, really really slowly, but crucially resist the temptation to look back ... then eventually he realises 3.5 million is better than nothing, and calls us back and says "All right then, you can have him."
I've based this plan partly on personal experience from buying flip-flops in Thailand, and partly on the fact Brendan Rodgers thinks he's very clever but is in fact a very predictable buffoon.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 15:03:09 GMT
I like Assaidi and stuck up for him on here before the Chelsea game when loads had written him off, but he's still very hit and miss.
He's been in and out of the side and his final ball and decision making still need a lot of work. He's an exciting talent who will get better but he hasn't made himself the untouchable that Arnie has.
For that reason, £7m is absolutely mental and we should walk away rather than pay that.
Probably just Liverpool's first gambit and we'll meet in the middle somewhere though.
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Post by robwahlmann on May 27, 2014 15:12:56 GMT
Woldn't pay more than £4M at a maximum! If they want more let's look elsewhere ASAP!
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Post by stokesaint1 on May 27, 2014 15:14:24 GMT
No doubt Liverpool, based on this ridiculous valuation of Assaidi, would pay £30 million for Beggo or Ryan. At anything above £3M, I'd walk away. Two/Three good games a season don't make a £7M valuation. Zaha at £4 or £5M would be a much better proposition, or Ince even.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 15:14:48 GMT
Would you be starting him next season?
If we get Rivière, and start Assaidi on the bench with Arnie LW and Rivière RW.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 15:16:39 GMT
I like Assaidi and stuck up for him on here before the Chelsea game when loads had written him off, but he's still very hit and miss. He's been in and out of the side and his final ball and decision making still need a lot of work. He's an exciting talent who will get better but he hasn't made himself the untouchable that Arnie has. For that reason, £7m is absolutely mental and we should walk away rather than pay that. Probably just Liverpool's first gambit and we'll meet in the middle somewhere though. I’d go along with most of that Rob. He is hit and miss, but he’s an exciting player and I’m definitely buying into the “there’s plenty more to come” notion. I think there’s also a slice of “own player/double standards” at play. Whenever we are linked with a player the majority on here will often give it the “he’s not worth that much” line and then say “I’d want £30m for him” the second one of our own shows any promise!! I think £5m will be enough to get him and I’d say that’s about right.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on May 27, 2014 15:17:03 GMT
This is just Brendan Rodgers bargaining in the manner of a market trader in Thailand who sells flip-flops to tourists from Britain. He's probably budgeted to get 3.5 million in his kitty, so has set his initial asking price at double that figure. We have to barter like the skillful tourist flip-flop buyer. Wave 3.5 million in his face, say "Final Offer" and pretend to walkaway ... walk really slowly, really really slowly, but crucially resist the temptation to look back ... then eventually he realises 3.5 million is better than nothing, and calls us back and says "All right then, you can have him." I've based this plan partly on personal experience from buying flip-flops in Thailand, and partly on the fact Brendan Rodgers thinks he's very clever but is in fact a very predictable buffoon. How many flip flops were you buying if you made a final offer of £3.5 million?
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Post by metalhead on May 27, 2014 15:18:46 GMT
Liverpool want 7 million? Crazy. As good as he's been, he's worth 5 million currently.
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