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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 24, 2014 13:32:03 GMT
And why does he play for one of the top clubs who compete at the highest level including Champions League and Ryan doesn't? It is possibly the same reason that Cahill plays for England and Ryan doesn't. I see we have the same old horseshit claiming it is all about Hodgson. It isn't. Add to the list Ferguson and every other manager of our top clubs. Ryan is perfect for Stoke City in the way Denis Smith was years ago. Unless he can add to his all round game then he will remain as uncapped as Denis and will remain at Stoke.
Who knows why Ryan hasn't moved to one of the top clubs. Given what Alex Ferguson said of him I'm surprised Man U didn't come back for him - or maybe Ryan is one of those strange creatures - who is actually happy at a smaller club, being a big fish in a small pond?
Cahill has had a decent season but he's been a liability defensively for both Chelsea and England prior to that - but still got picked.
You're not trying to imply that Smalling is a better defender than Ryan then? And Jones? And Caulker?
What exactly does Ryan need to add to his all round game? 90 year passes? I'm not trying to imply anything other than good judges consider Cahill a better bet for the very top class football than Ryan. I tend to agree but would add that I would not swap Ryan for any of the England contenders in terms of Stoke City. He fits us like a glove in the same way that Denis did. I would differ with you in your view that Ryan stays at Stoke because he likes being a big fish in a smaller pond. I tend to think that if one of the really top clubs came in for him he would go and Stoke would not stand in his way. I would suggest that Ryan needs to be a hell of a lot more comfortable on the ball than he is (although he has improved this term) and to modify his way of defending (successful as it is with Stoke in the Premier League). I suspect (like Denis before him) that in international competition forwards would be rubbing their hands with glee at the number of fouls and penalties they would be winning if Ryan played as he does for Stoke. I wonder how long he would stay on the pitch. That would be my concern. International and European football won't change for Ryan believe me. He would have to adapt. I'm not sure he could.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 24, 2014 13:38:06 GMT
The way he defends is no different to John Terry or Gary Cahill. Having watched Chelsea the other night, they (and Atletico) were all over eachother. We need to get over this myth that Ryan is some man handling extriordinaire. Yeah, he may be physical but he's not on his own.
What's his discipline like this season? He's not been suspended as far as I know so he's obviously curbed it a bit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 24, 2014 13:56:47 GMT
Cahill is class with John Terry next to him. For England he makes on average at least 3 horrendous errors a game with usually at least 1 leading to a goal. Jones and Smalling - not going to bother to explain. If anyone would take either of these over Ryan then they have no knowledge about football. In fact, i wouldn't swap Shawcross for ANY English centre back right now. John Terry is by far the best but is very old. I would ask Terry to return for England and if he agreed I would start him and Cahill with Shawcross sub. Otherwise I would start Shawcross and then Jagielka.
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Post by onionman on Apr 24, 2014 14:31:51 GMT
It's an absolute disgrace that he's behind some of the clowns who have seemingly nailed down a place in the squad. However I think it's a blessing in disguise he's not going to Brazil.
Even though I believe Ryan is England's best centre-back, he's still a serious step down from the centre-backs we've historically entered tournaments with: Ferdinand at his prime, Campbell, Adams, Walker, Wright, Butcher. He'll probably struggle against the very best such as Suarez or whoever plays up front for Italy. No great shame in that but we all know the Wenger media will not just make him a scapegoat for our inevitable defeat, but make him a national villain akin to Beckham in 98, Tony Adams in 88 and Graham Taylor in 94.
His time may still come, when a new manager is urged to sweep out the crap that embarrasses us in Brazil. Ryan could end up with 15 or 20 caps in his prime (aged 28 to 30) and maybe playing in the Euros, before being replaced by a younger guy like Stones. That would be a fair reflection of his ability, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2014 14:42:06 GMT
Who knows why Ryan hasn't moved to one of the top clubs. Given what Alex Ferguson said of him I'm surprised Man U didn't come back for him - or maybe Ryan is one of those strange creatures - who is actually happy at a smaller club, being a big fish in a small pond?
Cahill has had a decent season but he's been a liability defensively for both Chelsea and England prior to that - but still got picked.
You're not trying to imply that Smalling is a better defender than Ryan then? And Jones? And Caulker?
What exactly does Ryan need to add to his all round game? 90 year passes? I'm not trying to imply anything other than good judges consider Cahill a better bet for the very top class football than Ryan. I tend to agree but would add that I would not swap Ryan for any of the England contenders in terms of Stoke City. He fits us like a glove in the same way that Denis did. I would differ with you in your view that Ryan stays at Stoke because he likes being a big fish in a smaller pond. I tend to think that if one of the really top clubs came in for him he would go and Stoke would not stand in his way. I would suggest that Ryan needs to be a hell of a lot more comfortable on the ball than he is (although he has improved this term) and to modify his way of defending (successful as it is with Stoke in the Premier League). I suspect (like Denis before him) that in international competition forwards would be rubbing their hands with glee at the number of fouls and penalties they would be winning if Ryan played as he does for Stoke. I wonder how long he would stay on the pitch. That would be my concern. International and European football won't change for Ryan believe me. He would have to adapt. I'm not sure he could. I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but is Ryan really a 'penalty waiting to happen' at international and european level? He's played against many of the world's top attacking players over his years in the Premier League, and I'd argue that very few have made him look awkward to the extent that he'd morph into Andy Wilkinson overnight. Compared to the South American and Italian centre backs he's a pussy cat.
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Post by mancruss on Apr 26, 2014 1:35:03 GMT
What the hell is this all about? I know it's only there for a bit of fun, but it kind of annoys me that things like this are so restricted. Even ignoring the fact that if I did it I'd shove Shawcross in there, the fact that you can pick a team that's already been so restricted by pundits' opinions just bugs me for some reason. Maybe I need to chill out, or not use internet forums to vent my frustration when I'm pissed! Sky sports squad selector
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Post by lordb on Apr 26, 2014 10:35:57 GMT
Who knows why Ryan hasn't moved to one of the top clubs. Given what Alex Ferguson said of him I'm surprised Man U didn't come back for him - or maybe Ryan is one of those strange creatures - who is actually happy at a smaller club, being a big fish in a small pond?
Cahill has had a decent season but he's been a liability defensively for both Chelsea and England prior to that - but still got picked.
You're not trying to imply that Smalling is a better defender than Ryan then? And Jones? And Caulker?
What exactly does Ryan need to add to his all round game? 90 year passes? I'm not trying to imply anything other than good judges consider Cahill a better bet for the very top class football than Ryan. I tend to agree but would add that I would not swap Ryan for any of the England contenders in terms of Stoke City. He fits us like a glove in the same way that Denis did. I would differ with you in your view that Ryan stays at Stoke because he likes being a big fish in a smaller pond. I tend to think that if one of the really top clubs came in for him he would go and Stoke would not stand in his way. I would suggest that Ryan needs to be a hell of a lot more comfortable on the ball than he is (although he has improved this term) and to modify his way of defending (successful as it is with Stoke in the Premier League). I suspect (like Denis before him) that in international competition forwards would be rubbing their hands with glee at the number of fouls and penalties they would be winning if Ryan played as he does for Stoke. I wonder how long he would stay on the pitch. That would be my concern. International and European football won't change for Ryan believe me. He would have to adapt. I'm not sure he could. That's a solid argument but is somewhat weakened when you look at it from the straightforward England point of view. i.e. Ryan is better (yes better) than almost all the other CB candidates & in some cases (Smalling is the obvious case in point) better by some country distance. England have no star CB's not one. Ryan should be in the squad at the very least. He isn't due to prejudice - prejudice that Hughes shared before coming here as he has admitted - about our players.It really is that simple.
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