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Post by chad on Apr 30, 2013 15:24:26 GMT
Im sure we would all like to see some real talent coming through from the Acadamy, certainly Peter Coates would, and it seem that some people seem to blame Pulis that this isnt happening. Personally I dont see how this is. Surely its not Pulis that recruits youngters from school, that must be our scouting network. It may be Pulis job to get them into the first team eventually but they have to be good enough and quite frankly we just havent produced anybody over the last six years who is anything better than an average/ good championship player. If Im wrong on then perhaps somebody could name one.
Its OK saying Pulis should give youth a chance but who !!!
The fact is the really talented kids will always be snapped up by United, Liverpool et al.
Im not saying we shouldnt keep trying and we may find the odd one we can job on for a million or so or may become a good squad player (Shotton/Wilko), but are we really going to unearth the next Gareth Bale. Somehow I doubt it.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 30, 2013 15:25:54 GMT
chad,
Good post.
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Post by RAF on Apr 30, 2013 15:35:01 GMT
Im sure we would all like to see some real talent coming through from the Acadamy, certainly Peter Coates would, and it seem that some people seem to blame Pulis that this isnt happening. Personally I dont see how this is. Surely its not Pulis that recruits youngters from school, that must be our scouting network. It may be Pulis job to get them into the first team eventually but they have to be good enough and quite frankly we just havent produced anybody over the last six years who is anything better than an average/ good championship player. If Im wrong on then perhaps somebody could name one. Its OK saying Pulis should give youth a chance but who !!! The fact is the really talented kids will always be snapped up by United, Liverpool et al. Im not saying we shouldnt keep trying and we may find the odd one we can job on for a million or so or may become a good squad player (Shotton/Wilko), but are we really going to unearth the next Gareth Bale. Somehow I doubt it. I haven't seen anyone blaming Pulis for the academy as it is now for not producing youngsters we can use yet? Anyone with a bit of nouse knows very well that it will be at least 5 years down the line minimum before we start seeing any real results from it. Pulis has no interest in the academy and showed this when he tried to have it closed down so he could use the money for front of house. Fortunately Phil Rawlins stepped in and saved it. It now has the funding it needs from PC but like anything will take time to come to fruition. Pulis has no real interest in youth, he is far happier bringing in seasoned Prem players apart from the odd youngster and Championship player. If you are suggesting that there are no kids out there worth a crack that we can't attract, I have to say I find that rather difficult to believe, but then again our scouting network has been a fucking shambles for years and when you see who Pulis sends out to scout you can see why it is so shit. H
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Post by fca47 on Apr 30, 2013 15:35:18 GMT
There are plenty of ex Crewe players making a living in the PL,and Murphy looks set to join them, so they don't always go to the big clubs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 15:35:37 GMT
Other clubs seem to manage to produce plenty of 'really talented kids' though don't they?
And if we set our youth teams up to play like us (no idea if we do) we aren't going to produce many technically gifted players.
Pulis historically isn't much for young players and his 'front of the house' comments make it pretty clear he isn't especially enamoured of the academy.
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Post by chad on Apr 30, 2013 15:42:54 GMT
Maybe, just maybe, Pulis is right and IT IS better to spend on seasoned pros.
Its kept us in the Prem for six years now.
Six years when the best we have produced internally is Wilko/ Shotton/ Marshall and the best of the current crop would seem to be Cuvelier and Alabi. Neither of whom are pulling up trees out on loan
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Post by jstoke7 on Apr 30, 2013 15:43:17 GMT
Im sure we would all like to see some real talent coming through from the Acadamy, certainly Peter Coates would, and it seem that some people seem to blame Pulis that this isnt happening. Personally I dont see how this is. Surely its not Pulis that recruits youngters from school, that must be our scouting network. It may be Pulis job to get them into the first team eventually but they have to be good enough and quite frankly we just havent produced anybody over the last six years who is anything better than an average/ good championship player. If Im wrong on then perhaps somebody could name one. Its OK saying Pulis should give youth a chance but who !!! The fact is the really talented kids will always be snapped up by United, Liverpool et al. Im not saying we shouldnt keep trying and we may find the odd one we can job on for a million or so or may become a good squad player (Shotton/Wilko), but are we really going to unearth the next Gareth Bale. Somehow I doubt it. How are we meant to produce technically gifted players with the system and way of playing with Pulis in charge? It's not just about 'name one player who's this good', it's about the system in place. Pulis has been at the club for 10 years in total now and clearly hasn't put a system in place that is generating good young players, he never will, he's not interested in it. Add to that pretty much every one of them must know they have a cat in hells chance of actually getting a chance or a game under him and I think it all starts to make a bit more sense.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 15:54:50 GMT
Maybe, just maybe, Pulis is right and IT IS better to spend on seasoned pros. Its kept us in the Prem for six years now. Six years when the best we have produced internally is Wilko/ Shotton/ Marshall and the best of the current crop would seem to be Cuvelier and Alabi. Neither of whom are pulling up trees out on loan Pretty short-sighted isn't it though, especially when we're spending millions on players the manager loses interest in five minutes later. We won't have that money available forever.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 30, 2013 16:05:51 GMT
Maybe, just maybe, Pulis is right and IT IS better to spend on seasoned pros. Its kept us in the Prem for six years now. Six years when the best we have produced internally is Wilko/ Shotton/ Marshall and the best of the current crop would seem to be Cuvelier and Alabi. Neither of whom are pulling up trees out on loan Thats right. We can just expect St Peter and the family to keep shelling out £millions every year on a squad to keep us in the Premier League. Please take a look around at clubs of our size and see how they have home grown talent in their squads.They have to. We have to. We simply cannot afford to carry on as we have there last few years. The Coates family have made it clear they will not indefinately support that model. To absolve the bloke who attempts to strangle the academy at birth for its lack of productivity is mind blowing.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 30, 2013 16:22:38 GMT
Never mind Man U or Liverpool, our academy hasn't been able to compete with Crewe or Vale over recent years in terms of reputation - and I know of Dads who have opted for either of those over Stoke when it comes to their own sons (even though they are Stoke fans) - the perception being that they will have little chance of making the grade at Stoke as bringing on youngsters is not seen as a priority. Crewe in the meantime have just fielded a side made up entirely of academy graduates and won a league 1 game - I know it's 'only' league 1, but how do you think a team of our academy players would have faired?
PC has stated that the academy is the way forward (as spending circa £20M per season bringing in new players is unsustainable) and his long-term goal is self-sufficiency. He's backed this up by ploughing ££Millions into it so that we can compete with the Man U's, Liverpool's and even Crewe's when it comes to recruiting the best young talent (Bale was 'snapped up' by Southampton - so it's not impossible!) We still though have the problem of perception - and TP's reputation of not prioritizing development is a major factor.
If we want to recruit the most promising youngsters, they (and their parents) need to be assured that they will be given every chance to succeed - otherwise they will continue to go elsewhere and the academy will fail.
A blind man on a robbers hoss can see that TP is NOT the figurehead to launch PC's future vision for SCFC.
How PC deals with the dilemma of Best Mate v Best Academy will have a direct impact on the immediate future of the club.
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Post by whereami on Apr 30, 2013 16:24:36 GMT
Maybe, just maybe, Pulis is right and IT IS better to spend on seasoned pros. Its kept us in the Prem for six years now. Six years when the best we have produced internally is Wilko/ Shotton/ Marshall and the best of the current crop would seem to be Cuvelier and Alabi. Neither of whom are pulling up trees out on loan Thats right. We can just expect St Peter and the family to keep shelling out £millions every year on a squad to keep us in the Premier League. Please take a look around at clubs of our size and see how they have home grown talent in their squads.They have to. We have to. We simply cannot afford to carry on as we have there last few years. The Coates family have made it clear they will not indefinately support that model. To absolve the bloke who attempts to strangle the academy at birth for its lack of productivity is mind blowing. Nah youre wrong mate. Look at Germany, the talent they have right now has nowt to do with the comprehensive overhaul of youth training they did 10 years ago, they've just hit lucky. Southampton may have produced the likes of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, but again they got lucky. Think that if a premier league club in the current climate has to settle for mostly mid table finishes as the height of their achievements, that it'd be actually fun and live affirming to see our own developed players coming through the team and actually giving us something to be proud of that we can say was a product of our club? Nah, only the big clubs can do that. Much better to have a "squad" made of aging players that the manager brought and has got bored of / fell out with, and to continue as a club spending over the odds on old, established players who wont give you any suprises but who most of the time will do enough to plod monotonously over the 40 point line for season after season while you're told by a shouting self absorbed maniac that youre spoilt. Everything about sport that makes it so popular, that taps into the primitive urge in us all? Fuck that, wrong. Human history has just been spoilt for too long. Send em out to the lower leagues until their imaginations are drilled out of them and they can join our team of assembly line robots, pumping ball after ball into the box until the requisite amount of goals have been scored (no more mind) so it can all be repeated again next year. Existing just to exist, adding nothing. Forget about thoughts of entertainment, punch your timecard and get shouting.. its the only sensible thing to do. Welcome to Pulisworld. Dont try and adjust the colour, its fucking monochrome and you're damn lucky for it.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 30, 2013 16:37:41 GMT
Go and comment on your own team instead of agreeing with this retarded fuckwittery on a Stoke City forum. Message to OP - you're an idiot.
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Post by whereami on Apr 30, 2013 16:41:12 GMT
Go and comment on your own team instead of agreeing with this retarded fuckwittery on a Stoke City forum. Message to OP - you're an idiot. This Geoff, when are you going to actually state why you post so much mindless support for Pulis?
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 30, 2013 17:18:24 GMT
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 30, 2013 17:29:01 GMT
Thats right. We can just expect St Peter and the family to keep shelling out £millions every year on a squad to keep us in the Premier League. Please take a look around at clubs of our size and see how they have home grown talent in their squads.They have to. We have to. We simply cannot afford to carry on as we have there last few years. The Coates family have made it clear they will not indefinately support that model. To absolve the bloke who attempts to strangle the academy at birth for its lack of productivity is mind blowing. Nah youre wrong mate. Look at Germany, the talent they have right now has nowt to do with the comprehensive overhaul of youth training they did 10 years ago, they've just hit lucky. Southampton may have produced the likes of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, but again they got lucky. Think that if a premier league club in the current climate has to settle for mostly mid table finishes as the height of their achievements, that it'd be actually fun and live affirming to see our own developed players coming through the team and actually giving us something to be proud of that we can say was a product of our club? Nah, only the big clubs can do that. Much better to have a "squad" made of aging players that the manager brought and has got bored of / fell out with, and to continue as a club spending over the odds on old, established players who wont give you any suprises but who most of the time will do enough to plod monotonously over the 40 point line for season after season while you're told by a shouting self absorbed maniac that youre spoilt. Everything about sport that makes it so popular, that taps into the primitive urge in us all? Fuck that, wrong. Human history has just been spoilt for too long. Send em out to the lower leagues until their imaginations are drilled out of them and they can join our team of assembly line robots, pumping ball after ball into the box until the requisite amount of goals have been scored (no more mind) so it can all be repeated again next year. Existing just to exist, adding nothing. Forget about thoughts of entertainment, punch your timecard and get shouting.. its the only sensible thing to do. Welcome to Pulisworld. Dont try and adjust the colour, its fucking monochrome and you're damn lucky for it. What a superb post. That last paragraph is going to get knicked and appear somewhere in the fanzine!!!
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Post by TheBra1n on Apr 30, 2013 17:40:34 GMT
if it helps a mate of mine just "opted" for the Stoke City Academy
his son is only 8 but had a choice to make of both Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Everton, Blackburn, Crewe and a few others i forget, the lad has trained with all of them and had choosen Man United from 7 to 8, Stoke stepped in and he and his father were so impressed with the step up at Clayton wood that he signed last week for Stoke, neither are Stoke fans dad is a Celtic fan and son thinks hes a Man Ure fan but the Academy is in his words "the best hes seen" from top to bottom
if our perception is low of the Academy then its probably because we havent seen it since all the money has been put into it, but all the parents at the signing day for this new crop of lads all said the same, the set up and facilities are bettered by no one in this country. there words not mine
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 30, 2013 17:50:10 GMT
Thats right. We can just expect St Peter and the family to keep shelling out £millions every year on a squad to keep us in the Premier League. Please take a look around at clubs of our size and see how they have home grown talent in their squads.They have to. We have to. We simply cannot afford to carry on as we have there last few years. The Coates family have made it clear they will not indefinately support that model. To absolve the bloke who attempts to strangle the academy at birth for its lack of productivity is mind blowing. Nah youre wrong mate. Look at Germany, the talent they have right now has nowt to do with the comprehensive overhaul of youth training they did 10 years ago, they've just hit lucky. Southampton may have produced the likes of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, but again they got lucky. Think that if a premier league club in the current climate has to settle for mostly mid table finishes as the height of their achievements, that it'd be actually fun and live affirming to see our own developed players coming through the team and actually giving us something to be proud of that we can say was a product of our club? Nah, only the big clubs can do that. Much better to have a "squad" made of aging players that the manager brought and has got bored of / fell out with, and to continue as a club spending over the odds on old, established players who wont give you any suprises but who most of the time will do enough to plod monotonously over the 40 point line for season after season while you're told by a shouting self absorbed maniac that youre spoilt. Everything about sport that makes it so popular, that taps into the primitive urge in us all? Fuck that, wrong. Human history has just been spoilt for too long. Send em out to the lower leagues until their imaginations are drilled out of them and they can join our team of assembly line robots, pumping ball after ball into the box until the requisite amount of goals have been scored (no more mind) so it can all be repeated again next year. Existing just to exist, adding nothing. Forget about thoughts of entertainment, punch your timecard and get shouting.. its the only sensible thing to do. Welcome to Pulisworld. Dont try and adjust the colour, its fucking monochrome and you're damn lucky for it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 17:52:39 GMT
Thats right. We can just expect St Peter and the family to keep shelling out £millions every year on a squad to keep us in the Premier League. Please take a look around at clubs of our size and see how they have home grown talent in their squads.They have to. We have to. We simply cannot afford to carry on as we have there last few years. The Coates family have made it clear they will not indefinately support that model. To absolve the bloke who attempts to strangle the academy at birth for its lack of productivity is mind blowing. Nah youre wrong mate. Look at Germany, the talent they have right now has nowt to do with the comprehensive overhaul of youth training they did 10 years ago, they've just hit lucky. Southampton may have produced the likes of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, but again they got lucky. Think that if a premier league club in the current climate has to settle for mostly mid table finishes as the height of their achievements, that it'd be actually fun and live affirming to see our own developed players coming through the team and actually giving us something to be proud of that we can say was a product of our club? Nah, only the big clubs can do that. Much better to have a "squad" made of aging players that the manager brought and has got bored of / fell out with, and to continue as a club spending over the odds on old, established players who wont give you any suprises but who most of the time will do enough to plod monotonously over the 40 point line for season after season while you're told by a shouting self absorbed maniac that youre spoilt. Everything about sport that makes it so popular, that taps into the primitive urge in us all? Fuck that, wrong. Human history has just been spoilt for too long. Send em out to the lower leagues until their imaginations are drilled out of them and they can join our team of assembly line robots, pumping ball after ball into the box until the requisite amount of goals have been scored (no more mind) so it can all be repeated again next year. Existing just to exist, adding nothing. Forget about thoughts of entertainment, punch your timecard and get shouting.. its the only sensible thing to do. Welcome to Pulisworld. Dont try and adjust the colour, its fucking monochrome and you're damn lucky for it.
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 30, 2013 17:59:18 GMT
Nah youre wrong mate. Look at Germany, the talent they have right now has nowt to do with the comprehensive overhaul of youth training they did 10 years ago, they've just hit lucky. Southampton may have produced the likes of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, but again they got lucky. Think that if a premier league club in the current climate has to settle for mostly mid table finishes as the height of their achievements, that it'd be actually fun and live affirming to see our own developed players coming through the team and actually giving us something to be proud of that we can say was a product of our club? Nah, only the big clubs can do that. Much better to have a "squad" made of aging players that the manager brought and has got bored of / fell out with, and to continue as a club spending over the odds on old, established players who wont give you any suprises but who most of the time will do enough to plod monotonously over the 40 point line for season after season while you're told by a shouting self absorbed maniac that youre spoilt. Everything about sport that makes it so popular, that taps into the primitive urge in us all? Fuck that, wrong. Human history has just been spoilt for too long. Send em out to the lower leagues until their imaginations are drilled out of them and they can join our team of assembly line robots, pumping ball after ball into the box until the requisite amount of goals have been scored (no more mind) so it can all be repeated again next year. Existing just to exist, adding nothing. Forget about thoughts of entertainment, punch your timecard and get shouting.. its the only sensible thing to do. Welcome to Pulisworld. Dont try and adjust the colour, its fucking monochrome and you're damn lucky for it. Seconded! Marvellous stuff. I may well have to share that elsewhere (with appropriate credit).
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Post by dixynormas on Apr 30, 2013 18:06:04 GMT
Cant blame Pulis at all really.
How many players who have come through our academy are playing in the Premiership now? 2? Shotton and Wilko, that's it.
Its not Pulis' fault that the academy isn't producing players who are good enough for our standard is it.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 30, 2013 18:08:58 GMT
Cant blame Pulis at all really. How many players who have come through our academy are playing in the Premiership now? 2? Shotton and Wilko, that's it. Its not Pulis' fault that the academy isn't producing players who are good enough for our standard is it. Oh dear.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 30, 2013 18:09:39 GMT
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Post by Peters Pipe on Apr 30, 2013 18:12:09 GMT
Im sure we would all like to see some real talent coming through from the Acadamy, certainly Peter Coates would, and it seem that some people seem to blame Pulis that this isnt happening. Personally I dont see how this is. Surely its not Pulis that recruits youngters from school, that must be our scouting network. It may be Pulis job to get them into the first team eventually but they have to be good enough and quite frankly we just havent produced anybody over the last six years who is anything better than an average/ good championship player. If Im wrong on then perhaps somebody could name one. Its OK saying Pulis should give youth a chance but who !!! The fact is the really talented kids will always be snapped up by United, Liverpool et al. Im not saying we shouldnt keep trying and we may find the odd one we can job on for a million or so or may become a good squad player (Shotton/Wilko), but are we really going to unearth the next Gareth Bale. Somehow I doubt it. It's the Tony and Tony show!
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Post by dixynormas on Apr 30, 2013 18:15:43 GMT
Maybe so, he may dislike playing academy players, i dont know. My point is that there has been no players coming through our academy that have looked half decent, the best one i've seen was Ben Marshall, but he's hardly setting the Championship on fire is he.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 30, 2013 18:16:52 GMT
Maybe so, he may dislike playing academy players, i dont know. My point is that there has been no players coming through our academy that have looked half decent, the best one i've seen was Ben Marshall, but he's hardly setting the Championship on fire is he. He didn't even come through our academy!
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 30, 2013 18:18:16 GMT
if it helps a mate of mine just "opted" for the Stoke City Academy his son is only 8 but had a choice to make of both Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Everton, Blackburn, Crewe and a few others i forget, the lad has trained with all of them and had choosen Man United from 7 to 8, Stoke stepped in and he and his father were so impressed with the step up at Clayton wood that he signed last week for Stoke, neither are Stoke fans dad is a Celtic fan and son thinks hes a Man Ure fan but the Academy is in his words "the best hes seen" from top to bottom if our perception is low of the Academy then its probably because we havent seen it since all the money has been put into it, but all the parents at the signing day for this new crop of lads all said the same, the set up and facilities are bettered by no one in this country. there words not mine That's good news and shows we are heading in the right direction. If we want to attract the cream of the crop away from Man U etc on a regular basis then I believe we need to demonstrate an ethos that we are a club absolutely committed to youth development - and IMO this is simply impossible with TP in charge.
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Post by surreystokie on Apr 30, 2013 18:18:42 GMT
I no longer agree that all local (wherever that is) youngsters will necessarily sign up for the more glamorous clubs, as they see endless foreigners causing their exclusion from promotion in the ranks. As an example, look at Chelsea's highest scorer, this season, and note that he plays for West Brom (Lukaku) and the much talked about (a few yrs back) McEachran who seems to have temporarily disappeared. And look who Jack Butland has chosen!
This could happen when selecting which youth academy to attach to and the bigger clubs around us won't always be first choice. Let's wish our academy luck and the good fortune to have a first team manager who is right behind it, with an attractive system of play which brings out their talent and enhances loyalty.
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Post by greyman on May 1, 2013 6:00:11 GMT
Talk of the players from the Southampton academy missed out Luke Shaw. Future England international and playing in the first team at 16.
Would he have had that opportunity at Stoke regardless of how good he was? Very unlikely. We think Ryan Shotton is a young player and he's 25 in October.
Regardless of what else you think about Pulis, he wanted to close the Academy down and if it wasn't for Phil Rawlins and Peter Coates there wouldn't be a youth structure at Stoke, never mind one that needs so much work. What we would have is the abyss sucking down millions each season in the form of aging pros with no resale value. The Chairman knows there is no future in that model and Pulis is not the man to oversee a different one.
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Post by Northy on May 1, 2013 6:48:43 GMT
Im sure we would all like to see some real talent coming through from the Acadamy, certainly Peter Coates would, and it seem that some people seem to blame Pulis that this isnt happening. Personally I dont see how this is. Surely its not Pulis that recruits youngters from school, that must be our scouting network. It may be Pulis job to get them into the first team eventually but they have to be good enough and quite frankly we just havent produced anybody over the last six years who is anything better than an average/ good championship player. If Im wrong on then perhaps somebody could name one. Its OK saying Pulis should give youth a chance but who !!! The fact is the really talented kids will always be snapped up by United, Liverpool et al. Im not saying we shouldnt keep trying and we may find the odd one we can job on for a million or so or may become a good squad player (Shotton/Wilko), but are we really going to unearth the next Gareth Bale. Somehow I doubt it. It will take a few years, we may need a bigger/better coach and scouting network and more places to hold the training sessions? I'm not sure about everybody going to the big clubs, from our club 3 of the U8's are going for trials at Wigan; 1 at Bolton, Everton scout is there every Saturday he asked last week to take an u9 for a trial, a lad at crewe for 3 years now even though dad is Citeh season ticket holder, had 1 at Vale, 2 went Stoke advanced academy, but dropped out, a Friday at 6PM was just too hard to get there. I think if the parents are sensible they will know they would be better at where the children are happy and improving.
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Post by thesandbankskid on May 1, 2013 6:59:26 GMT
Im sure we would all like to see some real talent coming through from the Acadamy, certainly Peter Coates would, and it seem that some people seem to blame Pulis that this isnt happening. Personally I dont see how this is. Surely its not Pulis that recruits youngters from school, that must be our scouting network. It may be Pulis job to get them into the first team eventually but they have to be good enough and quite frankly we just havent produced anybody over the last six years who is anything better than an average/ good championship player. If Im wrong on then perhaps somebody could name one. Its OK saying Pulis should give youth a chance but who !!! The fact is the really talented kids will always be snapped up by United, Liverpool et al. Im not saying we shouldnt keep trying and we may find the odd one we can job on for a million or so or may become a good squad player (Shotton/Wilko), but are we really going to unearth the next Gareth Bale. Somehow I doubt it. Crewe seem to do o.k out of it.
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