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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 9:57:28 GMT
Hee hee hee meant to put. Prddictive bloody text I actually thought you were gone put Here here here, like they do in parliament when the agree with summat....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 10:04:11 GMT
I hate all this " look at how far he has bought us rubbish" yes ok we have now been at top table for 5 seasons and had an FA cup final and a European Run, but that is absolutely no excuse for medocrity, in fact we have not even been mediocre, we have been down right useless. The "Look how far we have come" argument is utter nonsence, If you get a coach to Glasgow, and it breaks down at gretna green would you be delighted that at least you made it to Scotland, would you fuck, you'd be fuming that you are still 100 miles from where you want to be, and probably turn round and go back wom....
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 10:13:53 GMT
You are right Raf, there is no loyalty in football or anywhere else for that matter. Managers are judged on results and he has been struggling.
But bloody hell I'll never forget beating Arsenal, especially the cup match, the 10 man victory against Man City, the 2 comprehensive victories over Liverpool (ignoring the one when we hung on) and of course the FA Cup and subsequent European adventure.
And if you would have told me all that in August 2007 I would have thought you were insane.
Unfortunately, being a football supporter is not like getting a coach to Glasgow or any other destination. It's more of a Magical Mystery Tour, and I just think that maybe we might be a little more grateful for the ride over the last 7 years in particular.
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Post by SCFC92 on Apr 25, 2013 10:18:32 GMT
You are right Raf, there is no loyalty in football or anywhere else for that matter. Managers are judged on results and he has been struggling. But bloody hell I'll never forget beating Arsenal, especially the cup match, the 10 man victory against Man City, the 2 comprehensive victories over Liverpool (ignoring the one when we hung on) and of course the FA Cup and subsequent European adventure. And if you would have told me all that in August 2007 I would have thought you were insane. Unfortunately, being a football supporter is not like getting a coach to Glasgow or any other destination. It's more of a Magical Mystery Tour, and I just think that maybe we might be a little more grateful for the ride over the last 7 years in particular. Nothing but gratitude for the bloke, in my eyes he is one of our best ever managers certainly the best since I have been alive! However noone is bigger than the club and I really feel we have outgrown Pulis' tactics, and he has actually reverted so much that he has forgotten what actually made HIM good for US we're a caged animal at the moment and I can't see this changing under him, he has spent far too much on players he doesn't use, and the ones he does use, half the time are used wrongly.. We have outgrown Tony Pulis, thankyou, and I'm sure another Championship team will benefit from his talents, however we can expect more than the negative dour football we have witnessed over the past 18 months, the stats don't lie, it's time for him to go.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 10:18:33 GMT
You are right Raf, there is no loyalty in football or anywhere else for that matter. Managers are judged on results and he has been struggling. But bloody hell I'll never forget beating Arsenal, especially the cup match, the 10 man victory against Man City, the 2 comprehensive victories over Liverpool (ignoring the one when we hung on) and of course the FA Cup and subsequent European adventure. And if you would have told me all that in August 2007 I would have thought you were insane. Unfortunately, being a football supporter is not like getting a coach to Glasgow or any other destination. It's more of a Magical Mystery Tour, and I just think that maybe we might be a little more grateful for the ride over the last 7 years in particular. Can you not be grateful but at the same time think that a change is now needed?
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Apr 25, 2013 10:25:45 GMT
You are right Raf, there is no loyalty in football or anywhere else for that matter. Managers are judged on results and he has been struggling. But bloody hell I'll never forget beating Arsenal, especially the cup match, the 10 man victory against Man City, the 2 comprehensive victories over Liverpool (ignoring the one when we hung on) and of course the FA Cup and subsequent European adventure. And if you would have told me all that in August 2007 I would have thought you were insane. Unfortunately, being a football supporter is not like getting a coach to Glasgow or any other destination. It's more of a Magical Mystery Tour, and I just think that maybe we might be a little more grateful for the ride over the last 7 years in particular. Can you not be grateful but at the same time think that a change is now needed? You can Paul and we all should be i hope the club tell us what is happening as soon as safety is assured. All this speculation which must be coming from somewhere is only damaging us in the longer term.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 10:32:21 GMT
Ollie, I can accept that the Palacios signing hasn't worked out, but Crouch, Jones, Adam, Kightly, Jerome, N'Zonzi and Cameron have all made a contribution this season. So how has he spent all this money on players he doesn't use.
Paul,I am extremely grateful for what seemed like Mission Impossible, but I see no guaranteed benefit from a change, there is an inherent risk of getting it wrong, there is no clear stand out realistic candidate and I believe that TP is probably only 3-4 players from developing this squad into a consistent top half Premier League team, which is the absolute ceiling of our potential.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 25, 2013 10:40:13 GMT
You are right Raf, there is no loyalty in football or anywhere else for that matter. Managers are judged on results and he has been struggling. But bloody hell I'll never forget beating Arsenal, especially the cup match, the 10 man victory against Man City, the 2 comprehensive victories over Liverpool (ignoring the one when we hung on) and of course the FA Cup and subsequent European adventure. And if you would have told me all that in August 2007 I would have thought you were insane. Unfortunately, being a football supporter is not like getting a coach to Glasgow or any other destination. It's more of a Magical Mystery Tour, and I just think that maybe we might be a little more grateful for the ride over the last 7 years in particular. What about the old adage 'you're only as good as your last game'? That is ingrained in football, from kids under eleven teams, to every supporter in the land because, more than anything else, it's true. If Pulis keeps us up this season and bows out gracefully then the high points of his tenure, which you've earmarked, will no doubt live in memory longer than the previous two seasons. His Stoke career in this respect can only ever be regarded as a successful period in Stoke's history. However whilst he's in the job, that old adage is very much more significant to Stoke's future than Tony Pulis' past endeavours. Rest assured, if he does keep us in the league, I, like a lot of others, will respectfully send him on his way with a grateful heart. Then perhaps the legacy of what Tony Pulis has given us can truly be appreciated. If he stays however, he will get us relegated sooner rather than later I'm afraid.
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Post by SCFC92 on Apr 25, 2013 10:41:49 GMT
Ollie, I can accept that the Palacios signing hasn't worked out, but Crouch, Jones, Adam, Kightly, Jerome, N'Zonzi and Cameron have all made a contribution this season. So how has he spent all this money on players he doesn't use. Paul,I am extremely grateful for what seemed like Mission Impossible, but I see no guaranteed benefit from a change, there is an inherent risk of getting it wrong, there is no clear stand out realistic candidate and I believe that TP is probably only 3-4 players from developing this squad into a consistent top half Premier League team, which is the absolute ceiling of our potential. Is that the Peter Crouch who as a Striker has scored in twice in over 20 games? Swear that is a poor return, Adam is another pathetic situation playing a deep lying creative midfielder in a reserve striker position which doesn't work out, wondering why it doesn't work then dropping him... Dropping Jones when he is beginning to hit form because hard-on striker Crouch is now fit again even though he has a shocking scoring record (his job as a striker) "Jerome is only good from the bench" - He definitely pissed on his fire against QPR on Saturday! Kightly - An absolute flop of a replacement for a talented winger in Pennant to the extent we are relying on a past it Etherington to produce any sort of wing play or else we end up with Shotton (Who is SHITE at RM) on RM and Walters LM who's best position is clearly in the reserved Striker role! We also have, Shea, Edu, Ness, Owen - Where are these players?! So thats No Wingers, No Full backs, a shocking scoring record, a lack of creativity and a bored shitless fanbase after 7 years and ALOT of money spent... criminal for any manager! But don't worry we're 15th FFS!
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Post by jbstokie on Apr 25, 2013 10:43:09 GMT
Ollie, I can accept that the Palacios signing hasn't worked out, but Crouch, Jones, Adam, Kightly, Jerome, N'Zonzi and Cameron have all made a contribution this season. So how has he spent all this money on players he doesn't use. Paul,I am extremely grateful for what seemed like Mission Impossible, but I see no guaranteed benefit from a change, there is an inherent risk of getting it wrong, there is no clear stand out realistic candidate and I believe that TP is probably only 3-4 players from developing this squad into a consistent top half Premier League team, which is the absolute ceiling of our potential. Hasn't that been the case for the last two if not three years? The weaknesses have never been addressed and new problems have been introduced since then such as replacing the record signing with another record signing who can't play together.
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Post by cartman123 on Apr 25, 2013 10:44:28 GMT
I do hope this is true.
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 25, 2013 10:44:54 GMT
I believe that TP is probably only 3-4 players from developing this squad into a consistent top half Premier League team, which is the absolute ceiling of our potential. Since promotion he's signed 40 players (excluding loans) at a net cost of around £100m. There are certain areas of the squad that he has NEVER addressed properly over consecutive windows. I accept that things don't always go to plan with transfers, but basic mistakes have been made time and time and time and time again. Are you saying that he should be given more money to address the problems that he has failed to address before (that he had the money to address at the time)? I'm really struggling to see how he will suddenly get it right when he has got it wrong so many times before. This last 2 seasons in particular have been nothing short of disastrous where transfers are concerned.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Apr 25, 2013 10:50:22 GMT
The combination of the Coates financial backing and Pulis management got us here in the first place. Be honest, if you had to give one of those up which would it be?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 25, 2013 10:54:16 GMT
If they wont announce his departure until we're safe does that mean he's staying if we go down?
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Apr 25, 2013 10:54:57 GMT
I believe that TP is probably only 3-4 players from developing this squad into a consistent top half Premier League team, which is the absolute ceiling of our potential. Since promotion he's signed 40 players (excluding loans) at a net cost of around £100m. There are certain areas of the squad that he has NEVER addressed properly over consecutive windows. I accept that things don't always go to plan with transfers, but basic mistakes have been made time and time and time and time again. Are you saying that he should be given more money to address the problems that he has failed to address before (that he had the money to address at the time)? I'm really struggling to see how he will suddenly get it right when he has got it wrong so many times before. This last 2 seasons in particular have been nothing short of disastrous where transfers are concerned. This is of course also true and not even his biggest admirers could suggest that his lack of interest in signing natural full backs and replacing aging/troublesome wingers has not been a disastrous mistake and in my view prevented us being a top ten team comfortably this year. If he stays and fails to address both sides of the pitch in these four positions this summer he really doesnt deserve to be manager any longer anyway.
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 25, 2013 10:55:51 GMT
If they wont announce his departure until we're safe does that mean he's staying if we go down? Quite a bizarre situation when put like that. Team stay up = manager goes Team relegated = manager stays
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 10:58:31 GMT
If they wont announce his departure until we're safe does that mean he's staying if we go down? Don't Sheikhy, just don't ...
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 11:00:45 GMT
SentinelSentinel have done a story on the report - but it's not loading up? Has it been pulled?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 25, 2013 11:00:50 GMT
If they wont announce his departure until we're safe does that mean he's staying if we go down? Don't Sheikhy, just don't ... Axes at half mast gents.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 25, 2013 11:07:56 GMT
SentinelSentinel have done a story on the report - but it's not loading up? Has it been pulled? That's odd. Have they had "the call" from Big Brother?
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 25, 2013 11:09:44 GMT
2 comments underneath, might have only been up for ten minutes or so!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 11:12:37 GMT
Look, I'm not going to change your minds. That's OK, we see things differently.
Ollie, the issues of form and effectiveness are different from not using players. Apart from Palacios and the fringe players, all the recent signings have made a contribution. This full back thing is a bit of a smoke screen. I think we would buy a left back if a suitable one was available at the right deal, but with Wilson at LB and Shotton/Wilko/G-Cam at RB it's not as desperate as some make out. Our wingers are injured, out of form or out of favour, and that has been a huge problem.
But are we assuming that a new manager would come in and immediately sort out those problems? It just won't happen. We were linked with Zaha for ages, but surprise, surprise, he chose Manchester United before Stoke City. Is that Pulis's fault or one of the difficulties of managing a mid table club? Ince and Redmond will also be aiming as high as possible, so it's very difficult to get the right quality at the right money. Matthew Etherington looks increasingly like a superb signing for the money.
Clayton, I would always take financial backing, as every indicator shows that is the key factor equating to success. The league position virtually mirrors a club's wage bill. It's not a guarantee though, as Swansea have shown with a good set up and QPR have demonstrated with a spectacularly bad performance. It is undeniable that PC and TP have a special relationship and have worked really well together as a team.
Maybe, when we take everything into consideration, it's not quite as straightforward as it looks, and we might be hasty getting rid of a proven manager with a superb record here and a great relationship with our Chairman. I accept that I may not be right, but that's my personal view.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 25, 2013 11:27:17 GMT
Look, I'm not going to change your minds. That's OK, we see things differently. Ollie, the issues of form and effectiveness are different from not using players. Apart from Palacios and the fringe players, all the recent signings have made a contribution. This full back thing is a bit of a smoke screen. I think we would buy a left back if a suitable one was available at the right deal, but with Wilson at LB and Shotton/Wilko/G-Cam at RB it's not as desperate as some make out. Our wingers are injured, out of form or out of favour, and that has been a huge problem. But are we assuming that a new manager would come in and immediately sort out those problems? It just won't happen. We were linked with Zaha for ages, but surprise, surprise, he chose Manchester United before Stoke City. Is that Pulis's fault or one of the difficulties of managing a mid table club? Ince and Redmond will also be aiming as high as possible, so it's very difficult to get the right quality at the right money. Matthew Etherington looks increasingly like a superb signing for the money. Clayton, I would always take financial backing, as every indicator shows that is the key factor equating to success. The league position virtually mirrors a club's wage bill. It's not a guarantee though, as Swansea have shown with a good set up and QPR have demonstrated with a spectacularly bad performance. It is undeniable that PC and TP have a special relationship and have worked really well together as a team. Maybe, when we take everything into consideration, it's not quite as straightforward as it looks, and we might be hasty getting rid of a proven manager with a superb record here and a great relationship with our Chairman. I accept that I may not be right, but that's my personal view. What about my reply?! I spent a good three minutes writing that and you've not had the good grace to even acknowledge it. You're no more conscientious of people's feelings than the supporters you're so quick to criticise Just joking, I know you didn't respond because it made too much sense for you to offer any kind of retort
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Post by apb1979 on Apr 25, 2013 11:27:30 GMT
SentinelSentinel have done a story on the report - but it's not loading up? Has it been pulled? Or are they telling us that's there's nothing in the story.
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Apr 25, 2013 11:32:25 GMT
It loads up now
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 11:38:39 GMT
Nik, I apologise, good points, but my list of detractors is so long it is hard to fit everybody in!
I would argue that we need to move away from the old adage of "you're only as good as your last game". If you're good, you're good, and we should stick with you and give you the opportunity to get back on track.
I absolutely disagree that we would be relegated sooner or later. I would suggest that if we gave TP another season to get back on track, we would be less likely to be relegated next season than if we change now, but that's only my opinion. He will always create a team that is competitive, difficult to beat and capable of getting enough points to stay in the league.
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 25, 2013 11:42:48 GMT
He will always create a team that is competitive, difficult to beat and capable of getting enough points to stay in the league. This is the problem. After 5 seasons and massive investment is this still our only ambition? "40 points will be a great season". More alarmingly, we're currently a soft touch, so he's not even doing what he's renowned for very well.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 25, 2013 11:48:25 GMT
I hope this isn't the case. I'm going to assume it isn't. Some people on this board are very ungrateful though. Pulis has done a wonderful job for us in the last few years, and despite the horrid decline in the last 4-6 months, he deserves a proper send off.
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Post by Davef on Apr 25, 2013 11:49:59 GMT
He will always create a team that is competitive, difficult to beat and capable of getting enough points to stay in the league. I fail to see how anyone can still be of that opinion after what's happened so far this year.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 11:52:01 GMT
This 40 points thing is another myth. What he actually says is his FIRST priority is to get to 40 points and then "see where we are and push on from there". He's committed to having a go in the Cups too. There's not much more we can realistically achieve whoever the manager is.
We've had a dreadful run of form, but I think soft touch is harsh. We will still have a lot of clean sheets and a decent defensive record this season.
Edit: Dave F, we've had a really disappointing second half of the season, but despite that it looks as though we will be safe again for the 5th time. The evidence backs up the competitive/points accumulation theory. Only the top 6 have conceded less than us so far this season.
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