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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 13:34:55 GMT
That's not the same as being 'even-handed' is it? Being even-handed would be the ability to see both sides or look at the situation with something resembling objectivity. Oh really? So I can't understand why people are unhappy with where we are? Or how signings have turned out? Or the rigid formula? Or the loyalty of Coates? Seems odd to single me out for extreme views Rob. I'll be sure to get hysterical the next time Pulis says the opposition are tidy and we need the crowd behind us, and maybe can start calling him the despicable one, wailing about him having achieved nothing and will leave no legacy if you think it will help me look balanced. It seems you are the even the definitive expert on other peoples views, you can't even be the slightest bit wrong when it comes to the opinions of others. Hang on, you're the one claiming you're even handed on here when all you seem to do is castigate one side of the fence for their views? I don't know how you feel in 'real life' but your perception of yourself as middle of the road isn't how you come across on here. Sorry of that's a juddering surprise to you.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 14:12:17 GMT
Oh really? So I can't understand why people are unhappy with where we are? Or how signings have turned out? Or the rigid formula? Or the loyalty of Coates? Seems odd to single me out for extreme views Rob. I'll be sure to get hysterical the next time Pulis says the opposition are tidy and we need the crowd behind us, and maybe can start calling him the despicable one, wailing about him having achieved nothing and will leave no legacy if you think it will help me look balanced. It seems you are the even the definitive expert on other peoples views, you can't even be the slightest bit wrong when it comes to the opinions of others. Hang on, you're the one claiming you're even handed on here when all you seem to do is castigate one side of the fence for their views? I don't know how you feel in 'real life' but your perception of yourself as middle of the road isn't how you come across on here. Sorry of that's a juddering surprise to you. Right you are robert. As ever. You are at it again with spurious changes to entice into the vortex. So.., I never said middle of the road - although it is something you have accused me of saying before - even as having as a catchphrase if I recall - I said even handed, which means fair rather than average. So I don't really see myself as middle of the road on here, so no juddering surprise. Anyway, wasting precious castigation time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 14:21:56 GMT
Hang on, you're the one claiming you're even handed on here when all you seem to do is castigate one side of the fence for their views? I don't know how you feel in 'real life' but your perception of yourself as middle of the road isn't how you come across on here. Sorry of that's a juddering surprise to you. Right you are robert. As ever. You are at it again with spurious changes to entice into the vortex. So.., I never said middle of the road - although it is something you have accused me of saying before - even as having as a catchphrase if I recall - I said even handed, which means fair rather than average. So I don't really see myself as middle of the road on here, so no juddering surprise. Anyway, wasting precious castigation time. Give over will you? Talk about splitting hairs. You don't come across as even-handed on here in my opinion. You're very clearly on one side of the fence.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 19, 2013 14:26:38 GMT
I have some sympathy for you Mustard. I prefer not to get involved with the labels, but I'm certainly a Stoke City supporter.
I have stated on here several times that I feel that Coates is right to stand by Pulis for 3 reasons: Loyalty, track record and lack of better alternative.
There is a feeling that if you take any kind of positive stance with regard to the club and management you are soon rounded on by an angry mob desperate to point out to you the error of your ways.
You're right, the constant sarcastic condemning of every press statement is infantile. The failure to acknowledge, that while we all agree we have been poor, that we haven't had a couple of thing's "go our way" recently (missed pens, penalty claims etc) is odd.
There is a danger that some posters get so entrenched in their position that there is no way back. They cannot face that they may have read it wrong, and form and results is a more complex issue that is dependent on lots of different factors combining.
For example, we all want Stoke City to survive and progress. As a rhetorical question, how many people would now want TP to stay even if we knew for certain he could achieve that?
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 14:35:44 GMT
Right you are robert. As ever. You are at it again with spurious changes to entice into the vortex. So.., I never said middle of the road - although it is something you have accused me of saying before - even as having as a catchphrase if I recall - I said even handed, which means fair rather than average. So I don't really see myself as middle of the road on here, so no juddering surprise. Anyway, wasting precious castigation time. Give over will you? Talk about splitting hairs. You don't come across as even-handed on here in my opinion. You're very clearly on one side of the fence. You accusing me of splitting hairs - I love this place. Ok, being even handed and on one side of the fence are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Being middle of the road and on one side of the fence probably are (unless the fence is on one side of the road I guess :)). As a budding man of words I would have hoped you might care more for the nuances of meaning. anyway, thank you for your assessment robert.
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Apr 19, 2013 14:53:22 GMT
I have some sympathy for you Mustard. I prefer not to get involved with the labels, but I'm certainly a Stoke City supporter. I have stated on here several times that I feel that Coates is right to stand by Pulis for 3 reasons: Loyalty, track record and lack of better alternative. There is a feeling that if you take any kind of positive stance with regard to the club and management you are soon rounded on by an angry mob desperate to point out to you the error of your ways. You're right, the constant sarcastic condemning of every press statement is infantile. The failure to acknowledge, that while we all agree we have been poor, that we haven't had a couple of thing's "go our way" recently (missed pens, penalty claims etc) is odd. There is a danger that some posters get so entrenched in their position that there is no way back. They cannot face that they may have read it wrong, and form and results is a more complex issue that is dependent on lots of different factors combining. For example, we all want Stoke City to survive and progress. As a rhetorical question, how many people would now want TP to stay even if we knew for certain he could achieve that? Okey, lets get one thing gunbarrel straight. I'm going to write it in capitals, imagine me saying it while placing my own head into the draw at work, and then repeatedly slamming it shut onto the aforementioned cranium! MISSING A PENALTY IS NOT BAD FUCKING LUCK, IT IS HAVING A SHIT PENALTY TAKER. When Matt le Tisser misses 1 in 40 odd or however many he took, maybe you can say its bad luck if that miss costs you the poinst which see you go down. When your designated pen taker has missed half of his last 10 spot kicks, and you haven't decided to give someone else ago, just stuck stubbornly with the status quo, that isn't bad luck. It is bad management and it is poor technique. A couple of those pen misses were at key times in tight affairs. It is quite simply nothing to do with luck.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 14:56:59 GMT
Presumably this is one pointless debate you're more than prepared to indulge in, unlike the 'luck' one. Funny that.
Even if it is possible to be partisan and even-handed, again, that's not how you come across - for someone who can see there are problems, you don't half go some to come to the manager's rescue. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't strike me as 'even-handed'.
Nevertheless, thanks for the semantics lesson.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 19, 2013 15:03:58 GMT
Chorlton, please re-read the post that you helpfully pasted above.
I used the phrase "go our way" in inverted commas. Even given your statistical argument, there would still be a 50/50 chance that Jon Walters pen against Fulham might go in. If we get the early pen against Villa it's a different game. I said that we can all agree we have been poor, but it is also fair to say that certain key moments haven't "gone our way".
Again I agree with Mustard. Football is a team game based on skill and organisation, but is influenced by chance and human failings like error, confidence etc.
Keep that drawer shut. I wouldn't want this post to cause any injury!
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 15:05:59 GMT
Presumably this is one pointless debate you're more than prepared to indulge in, unlike the 'luck' one. Funny that. Even if it is possible to be partisan and even-handed, again, that's not how you come across - for someone who can see there are problems, you don't half go some to come to the manager's rescue. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't strike me as 'even-handed'. Nevertheless, thanks for the semantics lesson. get sucked into the vortex and then hit with the inevitebl sucker punch. anyway, prepared might be the right word, it's still been annoying but then I know discussing anything with somebody that has never been wrong about anything is going to be - it's just a bit harder to drop something personal than drop an endless debate that will involve dredging up factoid and factoid about previous matches when actually you arguing different points on the same topic - it also takes less time and brain power because my opinions are a bit of specialised subject of mine pleasure
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Post by thestatusquo on Apr 19, 2013 15:11:17 GMT
I have some sympathy for you Mustard. I prefer not to get involved with the labels, but I'm certainly a Stoke City supporter. I have stated on here several times that I feel that Coates is right to stand by Pulis for 3 reasons: Loyalty, track record and lack of better alternative. There is a feeling that if you take any kind of positive stance with regard to the club and management you are soon rounded on by an angry mob desperate to point out to you the error of your ways. You're right, the constant sarcastic condemning of every press statement is infantile. The failure to acknowledge, that while we all agree we have been poor, that we haven't had a couple of thing's "go our way" recently (missed pens, penalty claims etc) is odd. There is a danger that some posters get so entrenched in their position that there is no way back. They cannot face that they may have read it wrong, and form and results is a more complex issue that is dependent on lots of different factors combining. For example, we all want Stoke City to survive and progress. As a rhetorical question, how many people would now want TP to stay even if we knew for certain he could achieve that? Okey, lets get one thing gunbarrel straight. I'm going to write it in capitals, imagine me saying it while placing my own head into the draw at work, and then repeatedly slamming it shut onto the aforementioned cranium! MISSING A PENALTY IS NOT BAD FUCKING LUCK, IT IS HAVING A SHIT PENALTY TAKER. When Matt le Tisser misses 1 in 40 odd or however many he took, maybe you can say its bad luck if that miss costs you the poinst which see you go down. When your designated pen taker has missed half of his last 10 spot kicks, and you haven't decided to give someone else ago, just stuck stubbornly with the status quo, that isn't bad luck. It is bad management and it is poor technique. A couple of those pen misses were at key times in tight affairs. It is quite simply nothing to do with luck. Oi !!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 15:25:53 GMT
Presumably this is one pointless debate you're more than prepared to indulge in, unlike the 'luck' one. Funny that. Even if it is possible to be partisan and even-handed, again, that's not how you come across - for someone who can see there are problems, you don't half go some to come to the manager's rescue. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't strike me as 'even-handed'. Nevertheless, thanks for the semantics lesson. get sucked into the vortex and then hit with the inevitebl sucker punch. anyway, prepared might be the right word, it's still been annoying but then I know discussing anything with somebody that has never been wrong about anything is going to be - it's just a bit harder to drop something personal than drop an endless debate that will involve dredging up factoid and factoid about previous matches when actually you arguing different points on the same topic - it also takes less time and brain power because my opinions are a bit of specialised subject of mine pleasure You really don't see it, do you? I'll leave you to your even-handedness.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 15:34:40 GMT
get sucked into the vortex and then hit with the inevitebl sucker punch. anyway, prepared might be the right word, it's still been annoying but then I know discussing anything with somebody that has never been wrong about anything is going to be - it's just a bit harder to drop something personal than drop an endless debate that will involve dredging up factoid and factoid about previous matches when actually you arguing different points on the same topic - it also takes less time and brain power because my opinions are a bit of specialised subject of mine pleasure You really don't see it, do you? I'll leave you to your even-handedness. excellent, I thought we were going to end up holding hands in the shit bin like sfance and mumf
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Post by jstoke7 on Apr 19, 2013 16:05:43 GMT
You really don't see it, do you? I'll leave you to your even-handedness. excellent, I thought we were going to end up holding hands in the shit bin like sfance and mumf To be fair mustard, I am clearly on one side of the fence, I want Pulis gone, but from reading the board regularly it occurs to me that most of the posts from you are disagreeing towards anti-pulis posters. I haven't seen you come back to geoff321 for example disagreeing with him (which I'm sure you do in some respects) and that makes me feel like you are clearly on the pro-pulis side of the fence. Apologies if what I've stated is wrong but that's just how it seems from my point of view.
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Post by jstoke7 on Apr 19, 2013 16:08:28 GMT
Chorlton, please re-read the post that you helpfully pasted above. I used the phrase "go our way" in inverted commas. Even given your statistical argument, there would still be a 50/50 chance that Jon Walters pen against Fulham might go in. If we get the early pen against Villa it's a different game. I said that we can all agree we have been poor, but it is also fair to say that certain key moments haven't "gone our way". Again I agree with Mustard. Football is a team game based on skill and organisation, but is influenced by chance and human failings like error, confidence etc. Keep that drawer shut. I wouldn't want this post to cause any injury! We've also had numerous things that have gone our way though?
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Post by stokie25 on Apr 19, 2013 16:23:16 GMT
I think we have been unlucky, but no moreso than any other team I've watched where i've winced and sucked air through my teeth at the injustice. I'm just a bit more vocal when it's OUR games. Overall, we're no unluckier than anybody else but the only club that beat the 'luck' drum at every opportunity. If we're relying on luck to keep us in this league then we least deserve to be here.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 16:58:06 GMT
excellent, I thought we were going to end up holding hands in the shit bin like sfance and mumf To be fair mustard, I am clearly on one side of the fence, I want Pulis gone, but from reading the board regularly it occurs to me that most of the posts from you are disagreeing towards anti-pulis posters. I haven't seen you come back to geoff321 for example disagreeing with him (which I'm sure you do in some respects) and that makes me feel like you are clearly on the pro-pulis side of the fence. Apologies if what I've stated is wrong but that's just how it seems from my point of view. no worries, to try to quickly clarify. Absolutely, as I have said I have no antipathy to Pulis since promotion (which pretty much puts me out of step fro starters), and for quite a few years I have questioned the tone (for want of a better word) and accuracy of posts regarding Pulis on here and that has put me on a side of the fence and so that's where I have been - Maybe I tend to post more when I disagree than agree with the consensus. I don't think I have got particularly abusive and made shit up and hopefully I have pretty fair - the only people I've really had any issues with were w4w and faf, and maybe rob now, I don't know. And it's not all I post about considering it's pretty much all anyone has posted about for years. As my stance on Pulis is under discussion, for what it's worth I reckon I have always been much more happy clapper than rimmer because what he does mystifies me and always has. I just can't get angry and abusive about it and until Coates changes things there is no point getting mad at a dog for barking. Maybe all I ever wanted was to be in the top flight anyway. ok, I'm off
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