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Post by onionman on Apr 18, 2013 16:26:47 GMT
Yeah, I guess, I prefer to think of it as Tone allowing himself to be bullied in to embracing the whole 'next level'thing which he never really either believed in or knew how to implement. Perhaps he should have said 'sorry fellas, if you want me andthe outcomes I can deliver, then it's more of the job in hand stuff' and let others decide. It's a bit of a myth though this. Pulis doesn't let himself be bullied by anyone for starters, and second the team was well on its way to evolving when he started to dismantle it with daft signings. With two wingers and some reasonably quick options up front we were playing the best football we had for years. His idea of 'better football', if we believe that, has been to get a deathly slow bloke leading the line and play either one winger or, as on Saturday, none. I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2013 16:32:00 GMT
It's a bit of a myth though this. Pulis doesn't let himself be bullied by anyone for starters, and second the team was well on its way to evolving when he started to dismantle it with daft signings. With two wingers and some reasonably quick options up front we were playing the best football we had for years. His idea of 'better football', if we believe that, has been to get a deathly slow bloke leading the line and play either one winger or, as on Saturday, none. I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect. The "three year plan" and the "evolution" phase are two different ones. Both imo are utter bullshit. Anyroad, I'm off for a kick about, I just hope things drop for me!
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Post by onionman on Apr 18, 2013 16:42:39 GMT
I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect. The "three year plan" and the "evolution" phase are two different ones. Both imo are utter bullshit. They're both bullshit for sure, and they relate to the same kind of thing - that he was promising a bright future with better football that everyone will respect. Maybe respect is the key with Tone. He craves respect. He treasures his friendships with respected managers. He signs respected famous names whether we need them or not. He wants the critics to respect what he's doing. In a way he's fawned to those who've shown him disrespect, by making promises (whether empty or not) to produce a kind of football that they will respect. Maybe that's his downfall.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 16:44:07 GMT
What bad luck have we had exactly? Does it outweigh the good luck? Rob, I fear being sucked into a never ending minutiae vortex. We'll agree to differ on the part luck has played. By the way, I think it in no way absolves Pulis, it just points the finger in a different way. It's just curious that you're so certain we've been unlucky but are so reticent to say, you know, how exactly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 16:45:49 GMT
It's a bit of a myth though this. Pulis doesn't let himself be bullied by anyone for starters, and second the team was well on its way to evolving when he started to dismantle it with daft signings. With two wingers and some reasonably quick options up front we were playing the best football we had for years. His idea of 'better football', if we believe that, has been to get a deathly slow bloke leading the line and play either one winger or, as on Saturday, none. I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect. I don't think there was any change in his policy there to be honest. He's always had a hard on for signing big names without knowing what to do with them.
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Post by jeycov on Apr 18, 2013 16:50:07 GMT
It's a bit of a myth though this. Pulis doesn't let himself be bullied by anyone for starters, and second the team was well on its way to evolving when he started to dismantle it with daft signings. With two wingers and some reasonably quick options up front we were playing the best football we had for years. His idea of 'better football', if we believe that, has been to get a deathly slow bloke leading the line and play either one winger or, as on Saturday, none. I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect. I agree with this We have been unlucky to come away from some games without a point You make your own luck however We have been unlucky that some of our signings haven't worked out We have signed players who didn't fit the system that was successful 2 years ago. Like lots of fans I support our direct style of football, when it leads to goals for the team Right now we need to create some luck with the combination of players that we have in the squad.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Apr 18, 2013 16:52:21 GMT
It's a bit of a myth though this. Pulis doesn't let himself be bullied by anyone for starters, and second the team was well on its way to evolving when he started to dismantle it with daft signings. With two wingers and some reasonably quick options up front we were playing the best football we had for years. His idea of 'better football', if we believe that, has been to get a deathly slow bloke leading the line and play either one winger or, as on Saturday, none. I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect. You've hit the nail on the head there. I don't think TP aims to appease anyone really though I think he probably got a bit carried away with his managerial ability and stopped looking at the dogs home and went to Cruffs instead. He wandered away from the basic principles that made us great.
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Post by onionman on Apr 18, 2013 16:53:48 GMT
I don't know about being bullied, but I think he was sucked into believing he had to appease the critics who slagged off our style of football. I think he's more vulnerable to criticism than he lets on. The critics were stupid to believe our style of football was wrong in the first place, and ignorant to turn a blind eye to the fact we were evolving quite naturally in the way you describe. Tone should have told them to get stuffed but instead he continuously harped on about trying to evolve with his weird three-year plan, and signed big-name players he thought would bring us (and him) more respect. I don't think there was any change in his policy there to be honest. He's always had a hard on for signing big names without knowing what to do with them. True about the big names. Berger and Ameobi spring to mind. I think he had definite plans for both Crouch and Adam, though, as part of his "evolution". Very stupid plans.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 18, 2013 17:02:29 GMT
Rob, I fear being sucked into a never ending minutiae vortex. We'll agree to differ on the part luck has played. By the way, I think it in no way absolves Pulis, it just points the finger in a different way. It's just curious that you're so certain we've been unlucky but are so reticent to say, you know, how exactly. Could do worse than curious. Much more constructive, and less tiring, than adversarial factoid exchanges.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 17:10:23 GMT
It's just curious that you're so certain we've been unlucky but are so reticent to say, you know, how exactly. Could do worse than curious. Much more constructive, and less tiring, than adversarial factoid exchanges. But somehow even more pointless.
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Post by Kjones9 on Apr 18, 2013 17:11:09 GMT
Us fans certainly have been unlucky.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 18, 2013 17:22:50 GMT
Could do worse than curious. Much more constructive, and less tiring, than adversarial factoid exchanges. But somehow even more pointless. Really? More pointless than participating in an detailed adversarial exchange on a landscape of infinite grey areas. The role of chance in games is too big for me today Rob.
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Post by Kjones9 on Apr 18, 2013 17:26:58 GMT
It's just curious that you're so certain we've been unlucky but are so reticent to say, you know, how exactly. Could do worse than curious. Much more constructive, and less tiring, than adversarial factoid exchanges. Yet virtually every one of your posts you're defending pulis, aren't you tired
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 18, 2013 17:36:10 GMT
Every team has good and bad luck,we have had no more or less than any of the other teams,we have just been woeful for most of the season. The sooner Pulis realises this,the sooner it could be sorted out,but methinks it's too late for that now.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 18, 2013 17:48:08 GMT
Could do worse than curious. Much more constructive, and less tiring, than adversarial factoid exchanges. Yet virtually every one of your posts you're defending pulis, aren't you tired (question) Is that true? I'd like to think I'm pretty even handed on here even if I'm not in real life. Let's face it, the criticism and hatred are well covered.
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Post by Kjones9 on Apr 18, 2013 17:56:50 GMT
Yet virtually every one of your posts you're defending pulis, aren't you tired Is that true? I'd like to think I'm pretty even handed on here even if I'm not in real life. Let's face it, the criticism and hatred are well covered. So is the defence of him, it does work both ways. Just saying like.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 18:39:45 GMT
Yet virtually every one of your posts you're defending pulis, aren't you tired Is that true? I'd like to think I'm pretty even handed on here even if I'm not in real life. Let's face it, the criticism and hatred are well covered. You're less even handed in real life? Are we talking shrine hear Muzzer?
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Post by blackpoolred on Apr 18, 2013 20:43:15 GMT
Luck is irelevant, the bottom 3 teams over 38 games deserve to go down.
We need to stop going on about luck. We are in a great position at the moment, 3 points above the drop and probably 2 of the weekest teams in the division coming up. We need to go for it, show a pair and stop waiting for something to happen and looking at what other teams are doing around us.
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 18, 2013 23:44:46 GMT
i dont think luck comes into it as every side can bemoan bad luck at some stage of the season, i would suggest the problems at Stoke come down to one thing AWAY FORM it's something thats not been addressed over a number of seasons, just 2 more away wins would have you safe,even last season when we had the ginger clown we totalled more away points than you, its just a good job your home form has kinda held up for you
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 0:28:02 GMT
Is that true? I'd like to think I'm pretty even handed on here even if I'm not in real life. Let's face it, the criticism and hatred are well covered. You're less even handed in real life? Are we talking shrine hear Muzzer? Give over I'm not Tazi. I'm no bigger Pulis fan in real life, just less diplomatic.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 0:30:47 GMT
Is that true? I'd like to think I'm pretty even handed on here even if I'm not in real life. Let's face it, the criticism and hatred are well covered. So is the defence of him, it does work both ways. Just saying like. (:)) you may think so, I think they have been totally out of proportion
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Post by hildaogden on Apr 19, 2013 0:36:29 GMT
our problems go far deeper than luck. It tends to pan out over an entire season anyway , so I just don't buy that Pulis bull.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:10:07 GMT
You're less even handed in real life? Are we talking shrine hear Muzzer? Give over I'm not Tazi. I'm no bigger Pulis fan in real life, just less diplomatic. You're higher on the scale than merkin or Momo these days Muzzer - I wouldn't say even handedness went hand in hand with continued defence of the manager at all costs.
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Post by underdog on Apr 19, 2013 7:12:44 GMT
If unlucky is an alternative word for the phrase 'fucking clueless' then I'd say we've had tonnes of bad luck.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 12:40:05 GMT
Give over I'm not Tazi. I'm no bigger Pulis fan in real life, just less diplomatic. You're higher on the scale than merkin or Momo these days Muzzer - I wouldn't say even handedness went hand in hand with continued defence of the manager at all costs. I realise it's unfashionable but I still don't have any antipathy towards Pulis and it still grates when there is so much of it on here and in such contorted, contrived, repetitive and unfunny ways - so occasionally I'll say something - hardly building a shrine to Pulis stuff is it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 12:53:16 GMT
You're higher on the scale than merkin or Momo these days Muzzer - I wouldn't say even handedness went hand in hand with continued defence of the manager at all costs. I realise it's unfashionable but I still don't have any antipathy towards Pulis and it still grates when there is so much of it on here and in such contorted, contrived, repetitive and unfunny ways - so occasionally I'll say something - hardly building a shrine to Pulis stuff is it? That's not the same as being 'even-handed' is it? Being even-handed would be the ability to see both sides or look at the situation with something resembling objectivity.
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Post by stokeyank on Apr 19, 2013 13:01:44 GMT
No such thing as luck, especially in sports. You either do or you do not make a play. That is the beauty of any sport especially football, the score does not lie. So if you want to classify something as luck then you make your own luck.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 19, 2013 13:09:32 GMT
stokeyank, Luck plays a major part in all sports, including football.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 19, 2013 13:16:00 GMT
I realise it's unfashionable but I still don't have any antipathy towards Pulis and it still grates when there is so much of it on here and in such contorted, contrived, repetitive and unfunny ways - so occasionally I'll say something - hardly building a shrine to Pulis stuff is it? That's not the same as being 'even-handed' is it? Being even-handed would be the ability to see both sides or look at the situation with something resembling objectivity. Oh really? So I can't understand why people are unhappy with where we are? Or how signings have turned out? Or the rigid formula? Or the loyalty of Coates? Seems odd to single me out for extreme views Rob. I'll be sure to get hysterical the next time Pulis says the opposition are tidy and we need the crowd behind us, and maybe can start calling him the despicable one, wailing about him having achieved nothing and will leave no legacy if you think it will help me look balanced. It seems you are the even the definitive expert on other peoples views, you can't even be the slightest bit wrong when it comes to the opinions of others.
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Post by thestatusquo on Apr 19, 2013 13:16:04 GMT
I started a thread a week or two ago about this. It's hard to deny we got lucky against Wigan when they didn't take a good chance with the last kick of the game and Reading should really have had a penalty late on.
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