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Post by watcher on Mar 13, 2013 17:14:06 GMT
Was talking to a baggies fan today and he's as confident of a result on saturday as he has ever been(although that has happened before )  The subject got onto why we havent replaced fuller as in his words" you have no one to scare us anymore". Is it a simple fact that our bad run coincides with the end of fullers reign and his non replacement? |
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Post by johnbutlershair on Mar 13, 2013 17:17:34 GMT
I'd say it more coincides with the fact were missing 2 in form wingers in the side
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 13, 2013 17:19:03 GMT
Amongst other things yes. He won us lots of set pieces, set pieces that we score the majority of our goals from and set pieces that we aren't currently winning. We've lost Delap's throw too which takes pressure off sides and also means we win less corners. We've also lost Higgi's hoofs into the channel that Fuller used to chase and win us set pieces. Added to that we're not playing wingers who can cross, so that loses delivery from out wide and the chance to win a corner. Our set piece delivery has also gone very iffy.
We've replaced all of the above with absolutely fuck all but still try to play this way despite not having as good tools for the job or the correct tools completely.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 13, 2013 17:21:18 GMT
I'd put the loss of Fuller as the No.1 factor - along with 2.) the decline of the wingers and 3.) the loss of Delap and the ability to pen teams back for 2-3 minutes.
Aside from those 2 months in 2011, the football has been largely filthy, ineffective dross.
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Post by stokeramblers on Mar 13, 2013 17:22:19 GMT
Did you not get the memo?
Fuller was shit. It's Tuncay that struck fear into our opponents. He once scored a hat-trick against a Man United reserve side don't you know.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Mar 13, 2013 17:24:02 GMT
See I personally wouldn't. He was awesome, loved the bloke but arguably our best form towards the tail end of the 2010 11 season was when fuller was on the bench or injured. I think our decline has been more to do with the wingers either being dropped or badly out of form
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 13, 2013 17:26:20 GMT
See I personally wouldn't. He was awesome, loved the bloke but arguably our best form towards the tail end of the 2010 11 season was when fuller was on the bench or injured. I think our decline has been more to do with the wingers either being dropped or badly out of form Vis Unita Fortior I think wing play is the absolute key to our downward slide. I loved Ric by the way. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Mar 13, 2013 17:27:20 GMT
I still think our best form was the second half of the first season back and the next season which returned our highest league position and best away points haul.
Ric was to the fore and then some.
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Post by padders01 on Mar 13, 2013 17:32:08 GMT
See I personally wouldn't. He was awesome, loved the bloke but arguably our best form towards the tail end of the 2010 11 season was when fuller was on the bench or injured. I think our decline has been more to do with the wingers either being dropped or badly out of form Vis Unita Fortior I think wing play is the absolute key to our downward slide. I loved Ric by the way. I'm not sure it is With Ric in the side he would chase down those long pointless hoofs and either create something for himself, set someone else up, win a free kick or a corner. We now have no one to do that. There was glimpses of it by Jerome last week just with his raw pace. He doesn't have the skill of Fuller. The two great months in 2011 involved the Etherington and Pennant playing very well and creating the chances for Walters and Jones We are not the same side under Pulis without a Fuller and when you look through Pulis' teams over the years it has always involved a pacy, skillful striker to be effective, Akinibiyi, Asaba (at Gillingham), Fuller etc |
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Post by fortressbritannia on Mar 13, 2013 17:32:27 GMT
I'd put the loss of Fuller as the No.1 factor - along with 2.) the decline of the wingers and 3.) the loss of Delap and the ability to pen teams back for 2-3 minutes. Aside from those 2 months in 2011, the football has been largely filthy, ineffective dross. I agree with your paragraph is also add the signing of Crouch to that as well we now have no aggression in our midfield or strikers (if you take away Walters). I think your last point is exaggerated a fair bit though. |
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Post by onionman on Mar 13, 2013 17:33:22 GMT
Amongst other things yes. He won us lots of set pieces, set pieces that we score the majority of our goals from and set pieces that we aren't currently winning. We've lost Delap's throw too which takes pressure off sides and also means we win less corners. We've also lost Higgi's hoofs into the channel that Fuller used to chase and win us set pieces. Added that we're not playing wingers who can cross, so that loses delivery from out wide and the chance to win a corner. Our set piece delivery has also gone very iffy. We've replaced all of the above with absolutely fuck all but still try to play this way despite not having as good tools for the job or the correct tools completely. The quality of our football is now so poor we're bemoaning our failure to adequately replace Higgy's punts upfield. That's like saying the standard of male grooming on Sunday evening TV shows has really gone downhill since Compo from Last of the Summer Wine died. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 13, 2013 17:35:51 GMT
Amongst other things yes. He won us lots of set pieces, set pieces that we score the majority of our goals from and set pieces that we aren't currently winning. We've lost Delap's throw too which takes pressure off sides and also means we win less corners. We've also lost Higgi's hoofs into the channel that Fuller used to chase and win us set pieces. Added that we're not playing wingers who can cross, so that loses delivery from out wide and the chance to win a corner. Our set piece delivery has also gone very iffy. We've replaced all of the above with absolutely fuck all but still try to play this way despite not having as good tools for the job or the correct tools completely. The quality of our football is now so poor we're bemoaning our failure to adequately replace Higgy's punts upfield. That's like saying the standard of male grooming on Sunday evening TV shows has really gone downhill since Compo from Last of the Summer Wine died. They were good though, I genuinely miss them.  Wilson's efforts just don't cut the mustard. Get it landing halfway between the byline and the halfway line whilst screaming "chase that yer fucker" to Ric. Brilliant. |
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Post by johnbutlershair on Mar 13, 2013 17:36:02 GMT
Was akinbiyi skillful? I never really rated him
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Post by stokeramblers on Mar 13, 2013 17:36:16 GMT
I still think our best form was the second half of the first season back and the next season which returned our highest league position and best away points haul. Ric was to the fore and then some. Amen to that |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 13, 2013 17:38:16 GMT
I'd put the loss of Fuller as the No.1 factor - along with 2.) the decline of the wingers and 3.) the loss of Delap and the ability to pen teams back for 2-3 minutes. Aside from those 2 months in 2011, the football has been largely filthy, ineffective dross. I agree with your paragraph is also add the signing of Crouch to that as well we now have no aggression in our midfield or strikers (if you take away Walters). I think your last point is exaggerated a fair bit though. It is a bit - but there's been precious little to keep you entertained in the last 2 and a half seasons, save for that out-of-nowhere 2 months of magic at the end of 2011-12, when everything clicked. At least with Fuller on the pitch, you had the belief that there could be something unbelievable around the corner which made every game worth watching. |
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Post by padders01 on Mar 13, 2013 17:39:19 GMT
Was akinbiyi skillful? I never really rated him Vis Unita Fortior No but he had raw pace, power and strength and could get himself into goalscoring positions (miss the majority!) |
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Post by onionman on Mar 13, 2013 17:42:41 GMT
The quality of our football is now so poor we're bemoaning our failure to adequately replace Higgy's punts upfield. That's like saying the standard of male grooming on Sunday evening TV shows has really gone downhill since Compo from Last of the Summer Wine died. They were good though, I genuinely miss them. Wilson's efforts just don't cut the mustard. Get it landing halfway between the byline and the halfway line whilst screaming "chase that yer fucker" to Ric. Brilliant. You're right, Higgy was a good percentages player who knew a sensible area to put the ball. We're missing the know-how from his all round game without doubt. |
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benno
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Post by benno on Mar 13, 2013 17:43:45 GMT
Anyone else think Ric should have some sort of memorial somwhere at Stoke? Even if its just a small plaque? I mean, he did so much for us on our journey to becoming a premier league team. He even scored our first goal in the prem.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Mar 13, 2013 17:46:20 GMT
And that's the main difference. from 2001-2004 we had Hoekstra. In the 2004-2005 season we had no exciting players. From 2006-2012 we had the likes of hendrie fuller etherington tuncay pennant etc. All players who could do something different with the ball. We do not have that now. Etherington is past it and pennant has lost his way and for one reason or another can't get in the team. Since we've lost these type of players our football has been less than inspiring. Any coincidence that our system is less than exciting. I think so
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 13, 2013 17:46:33 GMT
They were good though, I genuinely miss them. Wilson's efforts just don't cut the mustard. Get it landing halfway between the byline and the halfway line whilst screaming "chase that yer fucker" to Ric. Brilliant. You're right, Higgy was a good percentages player who knew a sensible area to put the ball. We're missing the know-how from his all round game without doubt. It's absolute shite football paper but it worked and it was good to watch because Ric could turn that calculated hoof into magic. We've lost so many things that worked and replaced them with nothing that does.  |
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Post by onionman on Mar 13, 2013 17:50:07 GMT
You're right, Higgy was a good percentages player who knew a sensible area to put the ball. We're missing the know-how from his all round game without doubt. It's absolute shite football paper but it worked and it was good to watch because Ric could turn that calculated hoof into magic. We've lost so many things that worked and replaced them with nothing that does. It's the characters we've lost that I think we're missing the most. Not only were they clever footballers who knew where to put the ball (Delap was as good as Higgy in this respect) but they were genuine sound blokes fighting the good war on our behalf. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 13, 2013 17:50:08 GMT
Amongst other things yes. He won us lots of set pieces, set pieces that we score the majority of our goals from and set pieces that we aren't currently winning. We've lost Delap's throw too which takes pressure off sides and also means we win less corners. We've also lost Higgi's hoofs into the channel that Fuller used to chase and win us set pieces. Added to that we're not playing wingers who can cross, so that loses delivery from out wide and the chance to win a corner. Our set piece delivery has also gone very iffy. We've replaced all of the above with absolutely fuck all but still try to play this way despite not having as good tools for the job or the correct tools completely. Spot on, Bayern. I also think Crouch coming back into the side hasn't helped. |
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Post by johnbutlershair on Mar 13, 2013 17:52:30 GMT
Set pieces that's another thing that's gone downhill. I think this season has seen possibly our lowest return from set pieces this season
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 13, 2013 17:52:48 GMT
I still think our best form was the second half of the first season back and the next season which returned our highest league position and best away points haul. Ric was to the fore and then some. I agree. Our bad runs coincided with Ric being out. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 13, 2013 17:54:10 GMT
It's absolute shite football paper but it worked and it was good to watch because Ric could turn that calculated hoof into magic. We've lost so many things that worked and replaced them with nothing that does. It's the characters we've lost that I think we're missing the most. Not only were they clever footballers who knew where to put the ball (Delap was as good as Higgy in this respect) but they were genuine sound blokes fighting the good war on our behalf. I agree, old, experienced English pros too but not the England international set of primadonna's we've replaced them with. Amongst other things yes. He won us lots of set pieces, set pieces that we score the majority of our goals from and set pieces that we aren't currently winning. We've lost Delap's throw too which takes pressure off sides and also means we win less corners. We've also lost Higgi's hoofs into the channel that Fuller used to chase and win us set pieces. Added to that we're not playing wingers who can cross, so that loses delivery from out wide and the chance to win a corner. Our set piece delivery has also gone very iffy. We've replaced all of the above with absolutely fuck all but still try to play this way despite not having as good tools for the job or the correct tools completely. Spot on, Bayern. I also think Crouch coming back into the side hasn't helped.[/quote Yup, playing KJ or Jerome up top isn't the same as Ric but it's certainly better than Crouch for winning set pieces and stretching play. |
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Post by borat on Mar 13, 2013 17:54:15 GMT
This is exactly why I want Pulis out. guess who the " so - called" replacement has been since Ric has left JOHNATHAN FUCKING WALTERS. 2 players who are so opposite from each other it's embarrassing. 1 is world class on his day, the other a league 2 plodder 90% of the time, deary deary me.
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Post by dbstoke on Mar 13, 2013 18:00:25 GMT
Anyone else think Ric should have some sort of memorial somwhere at Stoke? Even if its just a small plaque? I mean, he did so much for us on our journey to becoming a premier league team. He even scored our first goal in the prem. Haaaaahahahahahahhahahaaa!!! Soft lad |
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Post by fortressbritannia on Mar 13, 2013 18:25:35 GMT
I agree with your paragraph is also add the signing of Crouch to that as well we now have no aggression in our midfield or strikers (if you take away Walters). I think your last point is exaggerated a fair bit though. It is a bit - but there's been precious little to keep you entertained in the last 2 and a half seasons, save for that out-of-nowhere 2 months of magic at the end of 2011-12, when everything clicked. At least with Fuller on the pitch, you had the belief that there could be something unbelievable around the corner which made every game worth watching. I agree this season and last have been pretty awful, I dread to think where we'd be if Crouch hadn't got injured when he did and Jones came back in and we went back to good old fashioned effective Pulisball. TP really cocked it up with Crouch simply because we don't have to support players to make him effective and probably never will, in the space of one summer he unravelled the tremendous progress we'd made in 10/11, and we've gone backwards. We've turned some really crucial players into players that are low in confidence or just dropped them completely more than once. We've dismantled a good positive effective team that can create chances and that equals entertainment |
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Post by owdestokie on Mar 13, 2013 18:26:30 GMT
An excellent shout
"I'd say it more coincides with the fact were missing 2 in form wingers in the side"
Vis Unita Fortior.....Plus 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 18:28:56 GMT
The situation with the decline of the wingers shows up both our inflexibility and our issues in the transfer market in recent years.
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Wilson's efforts just don't cut the mustard. Get it landing halfway between the byline and the halfway line whilst screaming "chase that yer fucker" to Ric. Brilliant. 
