"worse than ordinary"

[davejohnno1]

We left the game after the 3rd goal went in, sick and tired as we were of our gutless, inept, surrender monkey of a manager.

Sitting right next to and within touching of their fans didn't make for a pleasant afternoon but leaving early did enable us to catch the remainder of the game on Radio Wales.

Their version of Dennis Smith (I forget his name) used the following phrases to describe our performance and I thought I would share it with you;

"I am really surprised by Stoke. They are worse than ordinary"

"They really haven't contributed anything to the game"

Just after the latter description Owen scored and he went on to say "that goal takes the gloss off the scoreline somewhat. This is a comprehensive victory and Stoke do not deserve a goal for their efforts today".

How right was he?

As soon as we saw the team at 2.20pm we knew that we were in for a hiding and we didn't disappoint on that score. Pathetic doesn't really do the team selection or performance justice.

Once again we took to the field with 4 players out of position. We had the hapless, immobile, weak and slow Adam and Crouch combination up front doing absolutely nothing, we had Walters on the wing and he once again proved just how shit he is playing in that position and we had full-backs who were hopelessly exposed and totally out of their depth.

They deliberately targeted the area inside and outside of our full-backs and they did it easily. Shawcross and Huth again did the job of 4 defenders and it caught up with them again as both looked ragged and bereft of any idea as to which fire to put out next.

Our goalkeeper had his head down from the minute the opening goal went in as did N'zonzi who gave up the fight all too easily. Frustration is beginning to show with him. Whelan had an absolute mare.

The only positive was that Etherington had a half decent game and was our only threat on the day.

It was pathetic and having turned in our best two performances of the season over the Christmas period, with our tried and trusted formula and personnel, I am gutted, angry and very disappointed in our manager for ripping that formation up and not playing it since.

I admire the work that Tony Pulis has done. On paper he has done a fine job but he really is undoing that good work given his work over the last 2 seasons. Our transfer policy is poor and we have signed too many dud players. There are too many holes in our team and squad, too many players that don't fit the way we play and our approach to games, especially away, is pathetic.

Given the money that has been spent to achieve all this, it really isn't good enough.

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2013 8:17:28 GMT davejohnno1 said:

We left the game after the 3rd goal went in, sick and tired as we were of our gutless, inept, surrender monkey of a manager.

Sitting right next to and within touching of their fans didn't make for a pleasant afternoon but leaving early did enable us to catch the remainder of the game on Radio Wales.

Their version of Dennis Smith (I forget his name) used the following phrases to describe our performance and I thought I would share it with you;

"I am really surprised by Stoke. They are worse than ordinary"

"They really haven't contributed anything to the game"

Just after the latter description Owen scored and he went on to say "that goal takes the gloss off the scoreline somewhat. This is a comprehensive victory and Stoke do not deserve a goal for their efforts today".

How right was he?

As soon as we saw the team at 2.20pm we knew that we were in for a hiding and we didn't disappoint on that score. Pathetic doesn't really do the team selection or performance justice.

Once again we took to the field with 4 players out of position. We had the hapless, immobile, weak and slow Adam and Crouch combination up front doing absolutely nothing, we had Walters on the wing and he once again proved just how shit he is playing in that position and we had full-backs who were hopelessly exposed and totally out of their depth.

They deliberately targeted the area inside and outside of our full-backs and they did it easily. Shawcross and Huth again did the job of 4 defenders and it caught up with them again as both looked ragged and bereft of any idea as to which fire to put out next.

Our goalkeeper had his head down from the minute the opening goal went in as did N'zonzi who gave up the fight all too easily. Frustration is beginning to show with him. Whelan had an absolute mare.

The only positive was that Etherington had a half decent game and was our only threat on the day.

It was pathetic and having turned in our best two performances of the season over the Christmas period, with our tried and trusted formula and personnel, I am gutted, angry and very disappointed in our manager for ripping that formation up and not playing it since.

I admire the work that Tony Pulis has done. On paper he has done a fine job but he really is undoing that good work given his work over the last 2 seasons. Our transfer policy is poor and we have signed too many dud players. There are too many holes in our team and squad, too many players that don't fit the way we play and our approach to games, especially away, is pathetic.

Given the money that has been spent to achieve all this, it really isn't good enough.

Dave it's very worrying isn't it? Too many of our players are out of form due to the constant chopping and changing of positions. The real worry for me is that the players look pissed off as well. Huthy and Ryan are getting pulled all over the place trying to cover for inept full backs and consequently they are suffering as well.

Begger's is back to last seasons form and I think his head is elsewhere. Nzonzi is really the only decent midfielder at the minute and is trying to carry the central areas, Whelan is totally out of form,which makes the fact we have an 8 million pound player in Palacios no-where near the first team all the more ridiculous.. As for Adam and Crouch well words fail me, they should never be played together.

For me Pulis has completely lost his way since The Cup Final. Trouble ahead I think.

[Deleted]

I don't think it's a case of if he should go but when. As supporters, we should really be thinking about who should replace him.

What are your thoughts Dave?

[davejohnno1]

My thoughts are that it really shouldn't be like this.

We or should I say TP, has blown a golden opportunity for our club. After the Cup Final, we were an attractive proposition to many players.

We were a club on the up. We were playing exciting football. We had narrowly lost a Cup Final. We were in Europe.

22m spent in Summer 2011 took us on a backward trend and further spending this summer hasn't addressed the previous transfer window's shortcomings.

Pulis has lost the plot and I think he has lost a lot of the players. Just what the hell Kenwyne must be thinking is anyone's guess and I think frustration is beginning to show with too many players.

I have never liked Pulis and have never warmed to him. It didn't help that I had the pleasure of socialising with him a couple of times in his early days with us and I just didn't like the bloke. He simply wasn't very nice.

That is no bad thing of course but I didn't like him personally, having spent some time in his company and I can't warm to him as a football manager.

The team selection was suicide yesterday and I predicted a 3-0 defeat once I saw the teamsheet, texting a friend who is a bit of a gambler to load up on 3-0 or them to at least win.

Owen's goal saw me wrong in my prediction but I wasn't far off.

When I post or when Greenhoff posts, I always agree with his posts or his responses to mine. I admire and respect Pulis for the job that he has done but I don't like him. If I woke up in the morning to find that he had left, I would be delighted.

I love Stoke mate, like so many others do. They practically cost me my first marriage because I wouldn't do or go anywhere if it clashed with our games and going to the game is what I do but I am losing interest and losing it rapidly.

I won't be at Arsenal or Fulham and when I'm thinking like that as are so many other regulars that I spoke to yesterday, then I think we are in a bit of trouble to be honest.

[harrysburrow]

Totally spot on Dave. No pace up front, wingers ineffective leaving out of position fullbacks exposed which results in Huth and Shawcross getting ridiculously over stretched. I hadn't really noted the quite specific post Cup final decline until the numerous recent posts referring to it. We really were playing some good stuff prior to that weren't we? The crazy thing is, with all the excellent background work done in he first 2 or 3 seasons, he really didn't have to be Bill Shankley to keep the progression going?

[davejohnno1]

It's sad Harry. It really is.

Some will say I'm over dramatic but I have this grinding fear that in 20 years time, when we look back at the top flight from lower down the pyramid, many of us old bastards (as we will be then) will hark back to the Summer of 2011 as the period where it all started to go wrong.

We need to recover from that Summers disastrous transfer window and we need to do it quickly. Is TP the man to complete the recovery? I am not so sure.

I think the sum total is 35m spent in Summer 2011 and Summer 2012 and the sum total that we have to show for that spending, in terms of good players is Steven N'zonzi and the potential (at 27 years old that word is frightening when used for him) of Geoff Cameron.

The rest of the signings have been nothing short of a complete and utter waste of time and resource.

[foxysgloves]

Jan 20, 2013 8:51:32 GMT davejohnno1 said:

My thoughts are that it really shouldn't be like this.

We or should I say TP, has blown a golden opportunity for our club. After the Cup Final, we were an attractive proposition to many players.

We were a club on the up. We were playing exciting football. We had narrowly lost a Cup Final. We were in Europe.

22m spent in Summer 2011 took us on a backward trend and further spending this summer hasn't addressed the previous transfer window's shortcomings.

Pulis has lost the plot and I think he has lost a lot of the players. Just what the hell Kenwyne must be thinking is anyone's guess and I think frustration is beginning to show with too many players.

I have never liked Pulis and have never warmed to him. It didn't help that I had the pleasure of socialising with him a couple of times in his early days with us and I just didn't like the bloke. He simply wasn't very nice.

That is no bad thing of course but I didn't like him personally, having spent some time in his company and I can't warm to him as a football manager.

The team selection was suicide yesterday and I predicted a 3-0 defeat once I saw the teamsheet, texting a friend who is a bit of a gambler to load up on 3-0 or them to at least win.

Owen's goal saw me wrong in my prediction but I wasn't far off.

When I post or when Greenhoff posts, I always agree with his posts or his responses to mine. I admire and respect Pulis for the job that he has done but I don't like him. If I woke up in the morning to find that he had left, I would be delighted.

I love Stoke mate, like so many others do. They practically cost me my first marriage because I wouldn't do or go anywhere if it clashed with our games and going to the game is what I do but I am losing interest and losing it rapidly.

I won't be at Arsenal or Fulham and when I'm thinking like that as are so many other regulars that I spoke to yesterday, then I think we are in a bit of trouble to be honest.

Interesting stuff.

Can I ask why you didn't warm to him Dave?

[bunnyscfc]

"I have never liked Pulis and have never warmed to him. It didn't help that I had the pleasure of socialising with him a couple of times in his early days with us and I just didn't like the bloke. He simply wasn't very nice."

Your fault for asking him if he had his brown wings, Dave.

[spitthedog]

Its an excellent post.

I was thinking what could be a realistic and logistical response.

I really think the supporters should consider a boycott of a targeted away game.

Usually I would not advocate boycotts, look at the effects of such responses at Blackburn.

But I believe a concerted boycott of a specific away game would not impact on the team at all. They don't perform away from home anyway. They play in a way in which away support has no real impact. They don't press or attack, aspects of games where vocal support rallies players.

At the same time it would put pressure on the manager, or at least embarrass, and make a point to PC?

It would also save some supporters a lot of cash and heartache.

Thoughts?

[Jamo on the wing]

Dave, you know we often hold very similar views mate and yesterday's only bright spot for me was that we decided to say "fuck it" and not go which I'm assuming you had wished you'd done when the team news came through.

I'm now on a self imposed ban from away days and as it stands I'm not sure when my next one will be which feels weird to type but there it is.

We end up spending less and less time watching the games away and more and more time supping and it's not a good recipe at all.

Yesterday I took my boy sledging in the morning and then watched the game in the pub.

We had a great time and I saved a boat load of cash and although mighty pissed off at the performance I was back home with him by 6pm and I knew I'd made the correct decision.

I also don't feel rough this morning because I hardly had a drink yesterday!

[bunnyscfc]

no need for a boycott. Our away attendances have plummetted since 2009 after the novelty wore off and the bank accounts emptied.

People make their own choice. Mine is to go sledging with my kids (when it snows!) or a bike ride and save up to £100 a fortnight. My problem is that my eldest wants me to take her to an away game. Not a chance at the minute.

Football and society has changed. I can't afford to simply p*** hundreds away for no return - and no, I don't m,ean 3 points. Just something to give me hope, get me excited. Pulis' comments BEFORE the Man Citeh game should have seen a plethora of returned tickets/refunds. An absolute p*** take of a comment and massively patronised those that were going.

[davejohnno1]

My boycott is starting Jamo/Spit and Jamo and I do often agree/share similar views despite not knowing each other from Adam.

I won't be at Arsenal or Fulham and I don't know when my next away game will be.

I have been out with my lad sledging this morning, having left him on his own since Friday when I returned to Stoke from Burnley.

In half an hour, I had more fun with him, for free, than I did going to Stoke despite the great company of my mates. I am now going back out, having come back to fetch his mum so that we can all build a snowman.

[bunnyscfc]

use snow mate, not his mum

[davejohnno1]

;D at Bunny.

Mum is pregnant so if she was dressed in white, she would already look like a snowman!

[bunnyscfc]

nice one mate, congrats.

Tony if it's a boy?

[sheikhmomo]

I've got £5 tickets in the neutral end for Fulham. I can even put up with 90 minutes of Glenn Whelan for that price.

[Beloved Monkfish]

I think 'worse than ordinary' is pretty spot on and I agree with pretty much everything said on this thread.

How many times do we get incredibly defensive when journos and other fans brand us as 'not a football team' and suggest that we play 'anti-football'. They're right aren't they? Who can honestly say they are enjoying watching us barely get out of our own half, watching Crouch 'run' around on his own with no-one within 50 yards of him, watching Charlie Adam 'run' around kicking people, giving the ball away and the game completely passing him by. Not to mention Walters running himself into the ground and offering no quality whatsoever on the wing.

It's incredibly frustrating because it's so bleeding obvious to everyone else what our best side is. It was no co-incidence whatsoever that the first time since the cup final we played 2 wingers and Walters off Jones that we hammered Liverpool on Boxing Day. We had the right balance. Then for some reason, Pulis rips that all up to try and shoehorn his beloved Peter Crouch back into the side (who I like as a player, just not in our 'system') and desperately tries to justify his signing of Charlie Adam by playing him basically anywhere but where he is familiar with.

It annoyed the hell out of me when Pulis said on 5 live the other night, 'we don't ask players to do anything that they are not capable of'. Eh? Complete bollocks. What about;

Asking Crouch to lead the line despite possessing no pace, power or ability to 'bully' a centre half.

Asking Charlie Adam to play the 'Mama' role, despite possessing no physical presence, no pace and seemingly no desire to work hard.

Asking Geoff Cameron to play left back when the guy is clearly a right footed central midfielder.

Asking Jon Walters to play on the wing despite never being able to beat a mean, having no pace and no idea how to cross a ball.

Asking Matthew Etherington to re-capture his form from 2 years ago, when the guy is quite clearly past his best.

Asking Michael Owen to play attacking midfield in his fleeting appearances as a sub despite him being an out and out goal poacher and having NEVER played anywhere else throughout his illustrious career.

And last of all, constantly asking the fans to get behind the team (which to be fair, we always have) when he serves up such abject dross in our away 'performances'.

I've always been fairly happy with Pulis. His style of football relates to the area. Hard work and graft and we have embraced it over the years. However, things have become increasingly stale. He's been a victim of his own success. Since the cup final, he's panic bought, showing a weakness for big names before even thinking about how he can fit them into his system. The system is king. And that's been his main strength and main weakness. His system has always been the reason for his success. However, he has been blinded by the success of 2 years ago and gone chasing players that don't fit his system, just because it's 'BLOODY hell Peter Crouch!', or ' Fucking hell it's Charlie Adam!' And the type of manager he is, he hasn't got a clue how to adapt his system to fit in these new players, because it's all he's ever known.

I'm really not convinced he can/knows how to turn it around. I don't know what to think any more. Whilst I don't think I'd like to see him be sacked, I really don't think I'd be too bothered if I woke up tomorrow to the news that he'd gone. So maybe deep down I do want him out.

Bored, frustrated, annoyed. I want my Stoke back.

[davejohnno1]

Cheers Bunny.

A boys name is already chosen (it isn't Tony you can bank on that one) but we are struggling for a girls name!

[sheikhmomo]

Jan 20, 2013 10:19:23 GMT davejohnno1 said:

Cheers Bunny.

A boys name is already chosen (it isn't Tony you can bank on that one) but we are struggling for a girls name!

Debs

[bunnyscfc]

Sheik, where did you get those Fulham tickets from mate, me and Jamo might be going

[sheikhmomo]

Jan 20, 2013 10:25:34 GMT bunnyscfc said:

Sheik, where did you get those Fulham tickets from mate, me and Jamo might be going

It's an offer to Fulham season ticket holders mate, they can get a £5 neutral end ticket with their ST. I'm maxed out with my contact but can keep my ears open if you like?

[bunnyscfc]

cheers mate

[TheWiseMaster]

I can't argue with the description of Stoke's performance - indeed the manager said much the same

You point out that the full backs were poor yet ignore the fact that we have serious injuries to our regular fullbacks - little wonder that Swansea targeted that area

Our front two were very poor but we regularly ask our manager to rotate players - we can't have it all ways

The problems weren't confined to those positions we were poor all over the pitch

Let's hope that the team recover their energy and drive for the next home game - they will need it

And they will need fans who don't quit on them too

[bunnyscfc]

our regular full backs are bailed out game after game by our superb centre halves Paul.
The words 'full' and 'back' are not in our manager's vocabulary.

[cheadlestokie]

I have not been to an away game now for the last 2 seasons.
Dave,I reached the conclusion that you have come to some time ago.You have mirrored my feelings about Pulis and about tactics,team selection and transfer policy almost exactly.
I cannot stop watching home games,something inside me will not let me go that far,but I really have no intention of going to away games until the side is set up to give us a realistic chance of at least being able to enjoy a performance as agaainst the turgid drivel which Pulis serves up at the moment.
Can anyone explain to me why he simply refuses to see,if indeed that is the case,that we have been crying out for two proper,efficient full-backs for how many years?
Pulis has done so much to progress this club we should all be shouting his name from the rooftops,but he really is his own worst enemy.
I simply could not believe it when we set up with no pace in the front two again,especially away from home when we play so deep and try to counter attack.
I am totally sick of his away tactics which are to keep to nil nil for 70 minutes then send on what he refers to as his impact players.When does it ever work?

[padders01]

For years home fans (when we have played away) have been saying how do you watch that every week.

For years people on here have laughed it off etc

It's true though isn't it?

Finally people have had enough and I don't blame anyone one single bit about boycotting away games.

[TheWiseMaster]

Jan 20, 2013 10:47:37 GMT bunnyscfc said:

our regular full backs are bailed out game after game by our superb centre halves Paul.
The words 'full' and 'back' are not in our manager's vocabulary.

Well our regular full backs might be way below par but they are a lot better than the pair who turned out yesterday

Wilco for one can at least defend ?

[cheadlestokie]

But we have not been able to rely on Wilko staying fit for more than 2 or 3 games at a time over the last several seasons.Two full backs has been a necessity for so long and it beggars belief that the positions have not been sorted out long since.

[Olgrligm]

I find it massively frustrating that all the bits and pieces are there and we just insist on taking these backward steps with the wrong players. I have no sympathy over the left back problem because it whould have been dealt with years ago, but the right back situation is a little different. How many squads have more than two recognised right backs? To have three front line full backs simultaneously injured is just freaky.

What concerns me the most is that we've hit upon the winning formula this season and already thrown it in the bin. To sign and then continue to select players like Crouch and Adam to the detriment of the team is poor management, especially when we know what works best. Ask anybody on here what our strongest team is and we'd all come up with almost identical answers. It's frustrating.

Despite all of the problems, a good transfer window for me would be us ballsing up our attempts to flog Jones. If he goes, then I don't know where our season is headed.

[jay1610]

Jan 20, 2013 10:53:11 GMT padders01 said:

For years home fans (when we have played away) have been saying how do you watch that every week.

For years people on here have laughed it off etc

It's true though isn't it?

Finally people have had enough and I don't blame anyone one single bit about boycotting away games.

It's always been the same since promotion, we're bereft in attack, it's just that supporters' expectations have changed. I went to about 2/3 of our away games in the promotion season, every away game in our first season up, and about 15 the next, I've since moved away to Uni and simply can't justify it anymore. I could budget for it just about if it was worth it, but it simply isn't. A lad I know is a Sunderland fan, they're of a similar ability to us but he goes to twice as many away games as me, simply because they'll give it a go. Obviously they don't win every week, but it's nice to know you've got a chance. For that reason I won't stretch my already limited resources travelling the country to watch Stoke. I already spend £20 a fortnight on train travel to get back and watch us at home, I don't spend that on food each week!
I've had conversations with people around me at games and the general feeling is that if we were prepared to have a go we'd do no worse on the road, and that's an irrefutable claim in my opinion - and it'd certainly be a hell of lot more exciting. I've got nothing but respect for those who went yesterday, but can't help but think that they're glutton for punishment. I for one wasn't surprised by the selection yesterday. I fell in love with football because the bad times are what make you appreciate the good, but watching Stoke away is slowly killing off that notion.

Until that changes I'll carry on only going to Wigan, WBA and the like away from home; affordable games where we have half a chance.