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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 14, 2013 17:53:51 GMT
Does Pulis know it? He should have known it for the past five seasons and seemingly hasn't addressed the issues around full backs. I like Wilson at left back but he wasn't bought as a full back. I still think TP doesn't see it as a problem, there's no evidence to suggest he has.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Jan 14, 2013 17:55:51 GMT
We came up from the Championship with only two players I thought would cope with Premier league football - Shawcross and Fuller. We've now got five top players who would walk into most sides - Begovic, Shawcross, Huth, Nzonzi and Wilson. Sorensson was a great free transfer and we've had brilliant value out of Faye, Delap, Higginbotham and Etherington. Jones and Crouch were expensive by our standards, but their goals helped take us to a Cup Final and comfortably keep us up last season. Pennant looked great value for a while - what's happened to him recently is anybody's guess. Walters and Jerome have not been a bad buys and Cameron looks good value at a couple of million for a utility-type player. But it's true that there's a coach load of other signings that were, in the main, gambles that didn't come off. I'm not going to slag off individual players, but we have to accept that Stoke is a club that has to gamble. Sometimes the gambles pay off, often they don't. Pulis knows the same as what everybody on here knows - we need better full-backs, more pace on the flanks and a replacement for Ric (the Ric he brought to the club and got more out of than any other manager). But you need to look no further than Remy and Ba to see that it's one thing knowing what's needed and another thing getting it. I agree with most of that. I'd have lumped Beattie in with Pennant in that it was a great value deal while it lasted then the ego kicked in. |
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 14, 2013 18:05:56 GMT
Good post. I have a question do you think that if TP does decide to sell KJ that the possible loan signing we make will be as good as John Carew was for us? I, personally, think that selling KJ would be the height of stupidity given his recent performances and comparing them to our other options. PS Did any mention Eidur Gudjohnsen, yet?  |
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jmw
Academy Starlet
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Post by jmw on Jan 14, 2013 18:06:41 GMT
We came up from the Championship with only two players I thought would cope with Premier league football - Shawcross and Fuller. We've now got five top players who would walk into most sides - Begovic, Shawcross, Huth, Nzonzi and Wilson. Sorensson was a great free transfer and we've had brilliant value out of Faye, Delap, Higginbotham and Etherington. Jones and Crouch were expensive by our standards, but their goals helped take us to a Cup Final and comfortably keep us up last season. Pennant looked great value for a while - what's happened to him recently is anybody's guess. Walters and Jerome have not been a bad buys and Cameron looks good value at a couple of million for a utility-type player. But it's true that there's a coach load of other signings that were, in the main, gambles that didn't come off. I'm not going to slag off individual players, but we have to accept that Stoke is a club that has to gamble. Sometimes the gambles pay off, often they don't. Pulis knows the same as what everybody on here knows - we need better full-backs, more pace on the flanks and a replacement for Ric (the Ric he brought to the club and got more out of than any other manager). But you need to look no further than Remy and Ba to see that it's one thing knowing what's needed and another thing getting it. Well said |
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Post by Miles Offside on Jan 14, 2013 18:11:24 GMT
Does Pulis know it? He should have known it for the past five seasons and seemingly hasn't addressed the issues around full backs. I like Wilson at left back but he wasn't bought as a full back. I still think TP doesn't see it as a problem, there's no evidence to suggest he has. For evidence - if memory serves - Pulis has tried over the years for Kelly (who came from Brum on loan), for the rightback (can't remember his name) who turned us down and went to Villa and the rightback (again, can't remember his name) at Sunderland and Ridgewell. He brought in Danny Higginbotham, who could play either CB or fullback and played him at LB with great success. He's brought Wilko and Shotton in on the right and Wilson's had the class to play on the left. Not a great set of names, but there aren't that many great full backs outside the top clubs. |
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Post by fca47 on Jan 14, 2013 18:18:50 GMT
There are hardly and real fullbacks these days. Most of them are really wing backs, who go forward but can't defend, Ryan Bertrand and Glen Johnson being prime examples. They are fine for the big teams because they spend most of their time attacking, but for a club like Stoke, who have to spend large periods defending against them they are no good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 18:21:16 GMT
Does Pulis know it? He should have known it for the past five seasons and seemingly hasn't addressed the issues around full backs. I like Wilson at left back but he wasn't bought as a full back. I still think TP doesn't see it as a problem, there's no evidence to suggest he has. For evidence - if memory serves - Pulis has tried over the years for Kelly (who came from Brum on loan), for the rightback (can't remember his name) who turned us down and went to Villa and the rightback (again, can't remember his name) at Sunderland and Ridgewell. He brought in Danny Higginbotham, who could play either CB or fullback and played him at LB with great success. He's brought Wilko and Shotton in on the right and Wilson's had the class to play on the left. Not a great set of names, but there aren't that many great full backs outside the top clubs. Higgy primarily CB, Shotton CB, Wilson CB/Midfield, Wilko right footed played at left back ?, Collins CB, Cameron Midfield no can't see it TP can not or will not do recognised full backs nearly all are square pegs malleted into round holes, this has been going on for five seasons now it needs to change. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 18:28:59 GMT
There are hardly and real fullbacks these days. Most of them are really wing backs, who go forward but can't defend, Ryan Bertrand and Glen Johnson being prime examples. They are fine for the big teams because they spend most of their time attacking, but for a club like Stoke, who have to spend large periods defending against them they are no good. So everyone below the top six plays centre halves at full back like us do they? |
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 14, 2013 18:35:03 GMT
For evidence - if memory serves - Pulis has tried over the years for Kelly (who came from Brum on loan), for the rightback (can't remember his name) who turned us down and went to Villa and the rightback (again, can't remember his name) at Sunderland and Ridgewell. He brought in Danny Higginbotham, who could play either CB or fullback and played him at LB with great success. He's brought Wilko and Shotton in on the right and Wilson's had the class to play on the left. Not a great set of names, but there aren't that many great full backs outside the top clubs. Higgy primarily CB, Shotton CB, Wilson CB/Midfield, Wilko right footed played at left back ?, Collins CB, Cameron Midfield no can't see it TP can not or will not do recognised full backs nearly all are square pegs malleted into round holes, this has been going on for five seasons now it needs to change. No sign it will change though , unfortunately. |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 14, 2013 18:40:56 GMT
Playing Adam in the hole with Walters out wide killed us. The moment I heard the team news I was tempted to wack £100 on a Chelsea win (wish I did now)
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 14, 2013 18:41:47 GMT
There are hardly and real fullbacks these days. Most of them are really wing backs, who go forward but can't defend, Ryan Bertrand and Glen Johnson being prime examples. They are fine for the big teams because they spend most of their time attacking, but for a club like Stoke, who have to spend large periods defending against them they are no good. So everyone below the top six plays centre halves at full back like us do they? I think we can all quote proper full backs at clubs who are not dominant all the time, so that argument is, I am afraid, just bollocks (in case you ask - Danny Rose, Jose Bosingwa, Nathaniel Clyne, Maynor Figueroa, Guy Demel, John Arne Riese, Davide Santon, just off the top of my head). Or would you say that they struggle because they play proper full backs?????? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 14, 2013 18:52:58 GMT
Does Pulis know it? He should have known it for the past five seasons and seemingly hasn't addressed the issues around full backs. I like Wilson at left back but he wasn't bought as a full back. I still think TP doesn't see it as a problem, there's no evidence to suggest he has. For evidence - if memory serves - Pulis has tried over the years for Kelly (who came from Brum on loan), for the rightback (can't remember his name) who turned us down and went to Villa and the rightback (again, can't remember his name) at Sunderland and Ridgewell. He brought in Danny Higginbotham, who could play either CB or fullback and played him at LB with great success. He's brought Wilko and Shotton in on the right and Wilson's had the class to play on the left. Not a great set of names, but there aren't that many great full backs outside the top clubs. Kelly barely played and player's who didn't join don't count because we don't know if we were really in for them! If we were after one, we would have signed one. Higgi is a centre back who can play left back. And even Wilko and Shotton both started as centre backs when they were 18. Both are decent enough at full back but I still don't think TP trusts Wilko and he wanted to sell Shotton. March's term of "wide defender" is bang on. There are enough though to make it look like TP has no interest in full backs. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 14, 2013 19:14:40 GMT
Cameron is a revelation at right back, Chelsea fans on the train home and Spurs fans I work with all unanimous in their praise for him and his stats are excellent. Showed his pace again on Saturday and lets not forget he dealt well with Bale. I agree we need a left back but right back is in good shape.
I thought we played well on Saturday, I liked the new shape of a 3 across the midfield in the secon dhalf rather than 2 holding. This meant N'Zonzi got forward more and Adam drifted over to the left and linked well with Matty a few times
Yes we could use better players but apart form full back no evidence we can get better than what we have for our budget, maybe this is as good as we can do in terms of plAyers who will come to Stoke on our terms
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 14, 2013 19:23:09 GMT
Miles Offside - you miss the point about transfers as others before you.
I specifically mentioned last two summers because by that point, given that we had contested a cup final and were in Europe the need to gamble was less than it had been previously.
We spent big money and we had the perfect opportunity, for the first time, to go out and attract the players that we actually wanted.
What we got is the ham fisted mess that manifests itself now when Pulis tries to hammer his square pegs into round holes.
On Saturday, we played 4 of our starting 11 OUT OF POSITION and then played one of our two subs out of position when he came on. Given the money that we have spent since Summer 2011, I think you would be hard pressed to find worse transfer dealings than ours.
Look at Jezza's comments above. They hit the nail fair and squarely on the head.
Time moves quickly and whilst it is more than fair to cut some slack on our early premier league transfer dealings, that is not the case over the last 2 summers.
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