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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 14, 2013 9:51:03 GMT
I don't really want to moan too much about Saturday because for large parts of the game I think we played pretty well and I didn't feel anywhere near as bad leaving the game as I did when I left the Sunderland, QPR, Villa and Norwich games. However, I can't help but feel that on Saturday, quite possibly for the first time, our poor dealings in the last two transfer windows came back and bit us firmly on the arse. Those 15 minutes in the second half cloud a lot of what actually happened on Saturday because our weaknesses, many of which have been discussed to death on here, really were exposed by top quality opposition. I have read postings to the contrary but for me, both of our full-backs on Saturday were absolutely shocking, particularly during that ill-fated 15 minute spell. Cameron goes walkabout regularly, leaving Shawcross exposed doing 2 jobs. You will get that when a full-back bombs forward but my problem is that he doesn't bomb forward very well. Offensively, given that he wasted several good opportunities to create something (I counted 6 at least), he isn't good enough to warrant the problems he causes us defensively. We have got away with it against lesser sides, but against Southampton and again v Chelsea, they exposed this and got behind and down the sides of us too often. Cameron is a utility man and needs to be used as such. Wilko, for me, is a decent right back who for all his faults, rarely lets us down. At left back, he is awful. Absolutely awful and he seems to lose his defensive capabilities from that side as well. He should play at right back or not at all. He was cruelly exposed during that 15 minute spell second half. Not addressing our full-back position has cost us and it is a surprise it hasn't done so before now. Walters is absolutely shit on the wing and should only ever be played in the hole behind KJ. From a wide position, he isn't good defensively because he switches off when he has a specific man to mark. He is a liability when defending corners and I have now lost count of the number of goals he has cost us over the last 3 seasons as a result. However, he plays wide because Pulis has failed to address the problems with our wingers and the solution he has brought to the club is absolutely shit. Yes Mr Kightly, i'm looking in your direction. It takes a special kind of shit to score two own goals and miss a penalty and sadly for us, when he plays on the wing, Jon Walters is that special kind of shit. The only winger that I have seen in this league worse than Walters, is sadly, Michael Kightly. Kightly is causing us and our manager big problems by virtue of being crap. Pulis clearly doesn't think he is good enough so he shoves Walters wide which then means Pulis is duty bound to play the hapless Adam in the hole. It doesn't work and we are affecting pretty much 50% of our attacking threat because of one lousy signing. As for Adam...for me the less said about him the better. He was our glamour signing. The one supposedly set to improve our team and the way in which it plays. Let's be honest, he's crap. He is leggy, is a walking booking, his dead balls are shocking and his ability to pick a pass is seemingly non-existant. He is slow in foot and mind and he contributes very little in the position that he is being asked to play. He could and should have played Matty in for a chance on goal on Saturday. He dallied and by the time he delivered the pass, Matty was offside. (Great decision by Sian Massey AGAIN it has to be said) I appreciate that he is out of position for the most part but he doesn't even show glimpses of being a decent player. KJ is tailor made for the way we play but he doesn't do it often enough for some. I like KJ and thought that he played pretty well on Saturday for the most part. However, even I, as one of his biggest fans, can't defend the fact that in a team that creates few chances, when they do come, he misses too many of them. That early chance was a big miss and he should have scored. Sadly, Crouch isn't the answer as his replacement yet we spent vast sums of money to get him. I am not going into the why's and wherefores on Crouch...they have been done to death already! Whelan, for me, has been playing very well. On Saturday, he didn't have a good game yet we didn't have anyone to relieve him of his duties. Dean "second touch is a tackle" Whitehead is worse still and our 8m summer 2010 signing is a lost cause. Imagine if a fit and firing Palacios had been available to bring on after 50 minutes or so because Whelan was having a poor game? It could all have been so different. Finally we have the dear, departed Ricardo Fuller. We haven't replaced what he gave us both as a team and for a set of fans. Jerome is a decent impact sub, but he is no Ricardo Fuller. What we have instead is Michael Owen who is so fit and so good, that he cannot even get on our bench. In games like yesterday, not having the Ricardo Fuller options seems like pure folly. It was. He should still be here with us to raise and lift the crowd and the team when necessary. Sorry for the long rant/explanation, but for me, Saturday highlighted just how badly wrong we have got our transfer policy over the last two summers. Of all the players we have signed, only N'zonzi and possibly Cameron on the basis that he is a big upgrade on Danny Pugh, can be said to have been good signings. That is a sorry indictment given the money we have spent in the process. As I said at the start, I don't really want to moan too much because I thought we played pretty well on Saturday and I guess that I have just gone on to launch a serious moan. I am simply frustrated that our transfer dealings have resulted in our weaknesses being exposed by that classless, horrible bunch of bastards that are Chelsea FC.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Jan 14, 2013 9:55:04 GMT
We were on the end of a flattering 4-0 against a team that is far superior in quality. Walters had a bad day. It happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 9:59:12 GMT
Great post dave......Tone has pissed away millions without having any hint of a clear strategy. You're right our lack of quality on the flanks was sorely exposed. We are still a low scoring team, that create few chances that will finish around 13th/14th. I don't see any signs of the fabled evolution. The only difference is we have a midfield player in Nzonzi who is pure quality and for me he is the only difference. This season is panning out like last season and thats very disappointing.
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Post by stokeramblers on Jan 14, 2013 10:00:25 GMT
Do I have to copy and paste my response to this from the other thread where you posted it? Great post...
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jan 14, 2013 10:02:26 GMT
Agree pretty much completely Dave, other than I'm not sure Ricardo would have quite had the legs although as an option instead of Owen it's a no-brainer. A left back would mean we can perm from Wilko or even Cameron for right back if the latter gets his act together, but it also means we can revert to playing Wilson there, as he was before Higgy got injured prior to the cup semi; it's a fact a few have forgotten. With Palacios going and Whitehead a desperate measure of a sub, we should have room for a midfielder but not in this window TP's obsession with Walters is a major factor in how we set up and throws most everything else out of the window. If all we could sign this window is a left back and a left winger then I'd actually be satisfied. Surely Cameron could be a back up centre back as that's where he plays for the USA? Pulis won't bite the bullet on Adam but if we don't at least try and play him deeper then any value we get from him in the side is totally negated. If all we do is f**k around with swapping one striker for another then I don't see us making progress and 14th place beckons again.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 14, 2013 10:14:17 GMT
No noose needed for me Stafford. I wasn't the least bit disgruntled on Saturday. Our lads gave it their all and for long spells, we played well. Hence why it was so frustrating to be on the wrong end of a 4-0 thumping. Such frustrations mean that I, at least, spent much of my weekend wondering where and how a decent performance resulted in such a drubbing. My conclusion was that for the first time our poor transfer dealings cost us and were exposed by a team, who on their day, can be unstoppable given their quality. I will give you something else as well...We lost 4-0 and the thing, on the day, that pissed me off the most was Adam's reaction to being subbed. Anyone else see it? He looked over at the bench, saw his number and trotted to the touchline. He didn't shake hands with either Jerome or Deano and actually made a point of doing a little "loop" in his exit route so that he left the pitch in line with the opposition dug out. He didn't acknowledge either of the on-coming players and that pissed me off immensely. He was rightly subbed and he should not need us or our manager to tell him that he isn't contributing anywhere near enough right now. I'm not a big fan of Adam based on what I have seen of him in a Stoke shirt and shit that like makes me like him even less. EDIT - I did change the content from that post to this a bit Ramblers!
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Post by cheadlestokie on Jan 14, 2013 10:20:58 GMT
I do agree with you over the two full back positions and the right side of midfield,although I still believe Cameron does better than you give him credit for. However for our side to function properly in the system which is clearly never going to change we do need to have"proper" full backs and because TP clearly does not have any faith in Kightly,he is using Walters on the right and sacrificing our best pairing up front of Kenwyne and Walters,even though the Liverpool game showed what could be achieved if they are put out as the front 2,or1-1,whatever. Add to that the immense problem we have with the Adam role and his lack of pace and fitness and not only have we more problems with scoring,but also do not pressurise the opposition in the same way that happens when Walters plays up front. I cannot believe that we did not have a left back ready to sign as soon as the window opened in view of our total shortage of a player in that position in the squad (and I include Wilson in that although he is the best of the others).
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jan 14, 2013 10:22:17 GMT
Hard to disagree with any of that. I think Pulis lost the plot buying Adam and Crouch. He doesn't seem to know what system he wants to play, either. I like Cameron and N'Zonzi. Both should be in midfield because Cameron is wasted at full back. The major gripe I have with Pulis, though is his treatment of players. Swansea should have been told to "fuck right off!" when they approached us for Kenwynne. He has started to play well, like Tuncay did, and Pulis is reportedly looking for loan signings to replace him! I have lost patience with Tone now. He has fucked up too many times for me, and instead of admitting Kightly, Crouch and Adam were HIS mistakes, he is looking for scapegoats. All we need is an upgrade on Matty, who looks like he has lost a yard and a full back. Fuck Crouch, Adam and Kightly off! Have a bit of bollocks, Tone! I am trying to like you, but it's fucking hard, mate!
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Post by stokeramblers on Jan 14, 2013 10:25:43 GMT
Hard to disagree with any of that. I think Pulis lost the plot buying Adam and Crouch. He doesn't seem to know what system he wants to play, either. I like Cameron and N'Zonzi. Both should be in midfield because Cameron is wasted at full back. The major gripe I have with Pulis, though is his treatment of players. Swansea should have been told to "fuck right off!" when they approached us for Kenwynne. He has started to play well, like Tuncay did, and Pulis is reportedly looking for loan signings to replace him! I have lost patience with Tone now. He has fucked up too many times for me, and instead of admitting Kightly, Crouch and Adam were HIS mistakes, he is looking for scapegoats. All we need is an upgrade on Matty, who looks like he has lost a yard and a full back. Fuck Crouch, Adam and Kightly off! Have a bit of bollocks, Tone! I am trying to like you, but it's fucking hard, mate! I agree with your sentiment of getting rid of Adam and Crouch (Kightly is ok as back up) but what you're saying is much easier said than done. How exactly to you propose we 'fuck them off'? You can have bollocks as big as beach balls but if no fucker wants to buy them then what can be done? The one hope I cling to RE:Adam is that when he isn't playing he seems quite happy to move on. As he did at Liverpool, it's just up to Pulis to see the light now though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 10:31:09 GMT
As much as I disagree with your summary of Walters, I love the phrase 'special kind of shit'.
I think Walters is alright on the wing, not amazing, but certainly better than some options. He tracks back down the wing to cover, and chips in with goals. Essentially a Creswell upgrade (who was criminally underrated in the promotion season). Like Creswell, his best position is still up front. On that point I do agree though, if we had bought a decent winger, he could be playing where he's most efficient.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 10:36:03 GMT
I don't really want to moan too much about Saturday because for large parts of the game I think we played pretty well and I didn't feel anywhere near as bad leaving the game as I did when I left the Sunderland, QPR, Villa and Norwich games. However, I can't help but feel that on Saturday, quite possibly for the first time, our poor dealings in the last two transfer windows came back and bit us firmly on the arse. Those 15 minutes in the second half cloud a lot of what actually happened on Saturday because our weaknesses, many of which have been discussed to death on here, really were exposed by top quality opposition. I have read postings to the contrary but for me, both of our full-backs on Saturday were absolutely shocking, particularly during that ill-fated 15 minute spell. Cameron goes walkabout regularly, leaving Shawcross exposed doing 2 jobs. You will get that when a full-back bombs forward but my problem is that he doesn't bomb forward very well. Offensively, given that he wasted several good opportunities to create something (I counted 6 at least), he isn't good enough to warrant the problems he causes us defensively. We have got away with it against lesser sides, but against Southampton and again v Chelsea, they exposed this and got behind and down the sides of us too often. Cameron is a utility man and needs to be used as such. Wilko, for me, is a decent right back who for all his faults, rarely lets us down. At left back, he is awful. Absolutely awful and he seems to lose his defensive capabilities from that side as well. He should play at right back or not at all. He was cruelly exposed during that 15 minute spell second half. Not addressing our full-back position has cost us and it is a surprise it hasn't done so before now. Walters is absolutely shit on the wing and should only ever be played in the hole behind KJ. From a wide position, he isn't good defensively because he switches off when he has a specific man to mark. He is a liability when defending corners and I have now lost count of the number of goals he has cost us over the last 3 seasons as a result. However, he plays wide because Pulis has failed to address the problems with our wingers and the solution he has brought to the club is absolutely shit. Yes Mr Kightly, i'm looking in your direction. It takes a special kind of shit to score two own goals and miss a penalty and sadly for us, when he plays on the wing, Jon Walters is that special kind of shit. The only winger that I have seen in this league worse than Walters, is sadly, Michael Kightly. Kightly is causing us and our manager big problems by virtue of being crap. Pulis clearly doesn't think he is good enough so he shoves Walters wide which then means Pulis is duty bound to play the hapless Adam in the hole. It doesn't work and we are affecting pretty much 50% of our attacking threat because of one lousy signing. As for Adam...for me the less said about him the better. He was our glamour signing. The one supposedly set to improve our team and the way in which it plays. Let's be honest, he's crap. He is leggy, is a walking booking, his dead balls are shocking and his ability to pick a pass is seemingly non-existant. He is slow in foot and mind and he contributes very little in the position that he is being asked to play. He could and should have played Matty in for a chance on goal on Saturday. He dallied and by the time he delivered the pass, Matty was offside. (Great decision by Sian Massey AGAIN it has to be said) I appreciate that he is out of position for the most part but he doesn't even show glimpses of being a decent player. KJ is tailor made for the way we play but he doesn't do it often enough for some. I like KJ and thought that he played pretty well on Saturday for the most part. However, even I, as one of his biggest fans, can't defend the fact that in a team that creates few chances, when they do come, he misses too many of them. That early chance was a big miss and he should have scored. Sadly, Crouch isn't the answer as his replacement yet we spent vast sums of money to get him. I am not going into the why's and wherefores on Crouch...they have been done to death already! Whelan, for me, has been playing very well. On Saturday, he didn't have a good game yet we didn't have anyone to relieve him of his duties. Dean "second touch is a tackle" Whitehead is worse still and our 8m summer 2010 signing is a lost cause. Imagine if a fit and firing Palacios had been available to bring on after 50 minutes or so because Whelan was having a poor game? It could all have been so different. Finally we have the dear, departed Ricardo Fuller. We haven't replaced what he gave us both as a team and for a set of fans. Jerome is a decent impact sub, but he is no Ricardo Fuller. What we have instead is Michael Owen who is so fit and so good, that he cannot even get on our bench. In games like yesterday, not having the Ricardo Fuller options seems like pure folly. It was. He should still be here with us to raise and lift the crowd and the team when necessary. Sorry for the long rant/explanation, but for me, Saturday highlighted just how badly wrong we have got our transfer policy over the last two summers. Of all the players we have signed, only N'zonzi and possibly Cameron on the basis that he is a big upgrade on Danny Pugh, can be said to have been good signings. That is a sorry indictment given the money we have spent in the process. As I said at the start, I don't really want to moan too much because I thought we played pretty well on Saturday and I guess that I have just gone on to launch a serious moan. I am simply frustrated that our transfer dealings have resulted in our weaknesses being exposed by that classless, horrible bunch of bastards that are Chelsea FC. Ted, you're back
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 10:41:43 GMT
Hard to disagree with any of that. I think Pulis lost the plot buying Adam and Crouch. He doesn't seem to know what system he wants to play, either. I like Cameron and N'Zonzi. Both should be in midfield because Cameron is wasted at full back. The major gripe I have with Pulis, though is his treatment of players. Swansea should have been told to "fuck right off!" when they approached us for Kenwynne. He has started to play well, like Tuncay did, and Pulis is reportedly looking for loan signings to replace him! I have lost patience with Tone now. He has fucked up too many times for me, and instead of admitting Kightly, Crouch and Adam were HIS mistakes, he is looking for scapegoats. All we need is an upgrade on Matty, who looks like he has lost a yard and a full back. Fuck Crouch, Adam and Kightly off! Have a bit of bollocks, Tone! I am trying to like you, but it's fucking hard, mate! Pretty much sums it up, why TP buys players that do not or ever will fit into his limited system is baffaling, he has no intention of changing his style of football to accomodate the players he brings in, Palacios, Tuncay, Adam and Crouch all expensive talented players who never really fitted into his ethos. Perhaps the idea of the big name flop signings are there to detract from the lesser named flops Tonge, Davies. Soares,Kitson,Collins, Whitehead, Arismendi,Jerome,Edu,Ness,Woodgate,Upson the list goes on and that's not even considering Owen, that is a frightening waste of resources.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2013 10:42:57 GMT
Pulis, like many modern managers, seeems to neglect wide players and prefers moving central players out there. We need 2 genuine wingers (downing and pennant perhaps) and a left back (olssen). Then have wilson, wilko and cameron as right back. Walters in the hole and adam/cameron/whelen alongside nzonzi in cm. We would finish top half then.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Jan 14, 2013 11:02:27 GMT
I do agree with pretty much all of that Dave. Pulis has recently been like a kid in a sweet shop in terms of buying players then not exactly knowing what to do with them.
His in ability to sort out the fullback positions properly and a decent replacement winger are my biggest gripes. Unfortunately we as most clubs do will always piss money up the walls and some signings work and some don't.
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jmw
Academy Starlet
Posts: 245
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Post by jmw on Jan 14, 2013 11:22:34 GMT
I can not agree with what you are saying, at all and your point is over played due to your 'admitted' emotion from the game.
For every bad signing you state we have 2-3 good signings ... so it has nothing to do with bad transfer dealings.
The loss was a combination of bad luck and playing a better team.
Crouch was playing very well for us before he had his teeth knocked out and if a serious injury results is players getting stick then as fans we should look at ourselves.
Adam has been average since he joined us, some good games, a couple of poor games and mostly average games.
The backbone of our team is actually quite good, easily the best since the early 1970s.
We have a number of positions where we need to strengthen just like every other team in the league. We also have players than need to move on because we have outgrown them.
This is the same group of players we were all singing about when we beat Liverpool.
I will raise your bad signings with Huth, Shawcross, Begovic, N'Zonzi, Wilson as outstanding signings.
Crouch, Jones, Walters, Ethrington, Whitehead, Cameron, Sorrenson, Jerome as players who have performed well for the club.
You then have a lot of squad players that it is difficult to comment on.
We have had wildcard players - Pennant, Beatie and Tuncay who have displayed moments of brilliance and also let the team down.
I would probably say the two signings that stand out as bad were Kitson and Palacios - both looked good on paper but did not work out for a variety of reasons that we will never really know the truth about.
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Post by fca47 on Jan 14, 2013 11:27:50 GMT
Makes you wonder how we got up to 10th. We must have an ace manager, with all those crap players.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 14, 2013 11:32:57 GMT
Pretty much agree with all of your post Dave, although I don't think Walters is being shoved out on the flank because TP has realised Kightly is rubbish.
I think Walters is shoved out on the wing because TP has to play Adam somewhere (in the hole) and Walters of course is first name on the team sheet.
Walters is ten times the player he is when he's played in the hole for us and Jones plays better with Walters behind him, in effect we're compromisng nearly a third of outfield postions, just to accomodate Charlie Adam into the team - it is an utterly ridiculous situation of epic proportions.
We spent 18 million on Crouch and Palacios 18 months ago and now we wouldn't even get a third of that back for the pair - that is an absolutely shocking use of the Coates family money.
Considering the vast sums of money TP has spent in the transfer market since the Cup Final, it beggars belief that we were so befeft of options at the weekend.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jan 14, 2013 11:37:37 GMT
Hard to disagree with any of that. I think Pulis lost the plot buying Adam and Crouch. He doesn't seem to know what system he wants to play, either. I like Cameron and N'Zonzi. Both should be in midfield because Cameron is wasted at full back. The major gripe I have with Pulis, though is his treatment of players. Swansea should have been told to "fuck right off!" when they approached us for Kenwynne. He has started to play well, like Tuncay did, and Pulis is reportedly looking for loan signings to replace him! I have lost patience with Tone now. He has fucked up too many times for me, and instead of admitting Kightly, Crouch and Adam were HIS mistakes, he is looking for scapegoats. All we need is an upgrade on Matty, who looks like he has lost a yard and a full back. Fuck Crouch, Adam and Kightly off! Have a bit of bollocks, Tone! I am trying to like you, but it's fucking hard, mate! I agree with your sentiment of getting rid of Adam and Crouch (Kightly is ok as back up) but what you're saying is much easier said than done. How exactly to you propose we 'fuck them off'? You can have bollocks as big as beach balls but if no fucker wants to buy them then what can be done? The one hope I cling to RE:Adam is that when he isn't playing he seems quite happy to move on. As he did at Liverpool, it's just up to Pulis to see the light now though. I said Pulis should be saying Jones is not for sale. He isn't perfect, but bringing players on loan to replace him is an insult to him. Bad man management.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 14, 2013 11:37:38 GMT
JMW...In fairness mate, I think you have missed my point and missed it by some distance.
My reaction isn't an emotional one to the weekend defeat against a very good side. It was a game that brought home to roost many of the things that have been discussed on here before.
I said, quite categorically that our poor transfer dealings of the last 2 summers had bit us on the arse and I stand by that.
Crouch was a signing we didn't need and is no better or more effective than the previous record signing he replaced. Upson is so good that Pulis doesn't even trust him in a cup game v Palace. Woodgate was an unmitigated disaster. Palacios has been mystifying and a shocking signing. Adam is poor. Kightly woeful. Jerome sits in between somewhat because Pulis signed him saying he could get us 15 goals, then quickly learned that he can't play from the start because he "gets lost".
Our transfer dealings over the last 12 months have left us with players that don't fit the way we play (Crouch, Adam, Owen), players that actually aren't very good (Kightly, Upson, Jerome, Owen) and players that are downright mystifying (Woodgate, Owen, Palacios). All that has come at massive cost and left us as you rightly highlight, with a great spine and not a lot else besides.
The spine of our team is carrying us through games and Saturday showed that perfectly.
Our best players played very well (Asmir, Huth, Shawcross & N'zonzi), our decent plays did OK/pretty well in patches (KJ, Whelan, Ethers) whilst our weak players were very weak and exposed easily (Wilko, Cameron, Walters in the wide position and Adam).
If you fail to see that then that is your perogative but to me it is blatantly obvious.
FCA - I think your thinly disguised attempt to defend the manager miss the point as well to be honest. I am not, per se, bashing the manager here. More trying to point out that the last two summers of spending hasn't been done wisely and that we really now need to address some of our shortcomings properly.
EDIT - Paul...perhaps so. Having seen how we played without Adam, I kind of hoped Pulis had seen the light on that score. With regard to your final comment...I really could not agree more. We are doing OK but we have weaknesses that are easy to spot. I can't help but feel that we have pissed away a golden opportunity, since the cup final, to really achieve something very very special as a result of poor transfer dealings since that time.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 14, 2013 11:38:50 GMT
Whilst I don't think we needed Crouch, and am sure we payed way over the odds for him, I can't link him alongside Adam as a poor buy. Crouch clearly has tried hard to adapt to our system and given his own skillset and physical attributes he has made a decent fist of playing for Stoke.
Charlie Adam has not looked at all comfortable in any of the roles he has been asked to play, and I really don't see him doing any better in the cage. On Saturday we may as well have played with 10. Personally I'd rather see Deano behind Jones than Adam; or Shotton, or someone who actually has a clue how to play the role like Walters. Charlie Adam in the support striker role at SCFC offers very little to our creativity and nothing to defensive effort.
He actually makes me look back fondly on the days of Mama.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 11:38:55 GMT
I can not agree with what you are saying, at all and your point is over played due to your 'admitted' emotion from the game. For every bad signing you state we have 2-3 good signings ... so it has nothing to do with bad transfer dealings. The loss was a combination of bad luck and playing a better team. Crouch was playing very well for us before he had his teeth knocked out and if a serious injury results is players getting stick then as fans we should look at ourselves. Adam has been average since he joined us, some good games, a couple of poor games and mostly average games. The backbone of our team is actually quite good, easily the best since the early 1970s. We have a number of positions where we need to strengthen just like every other team in the league. We also have players than need to move on because we have outgrown them. This is the same group of players we were all singing about when we beat Liverpool. I will raise your bad signings with Huth, Shawcross, Begovic, N'Zonzi, Wilson as outstanding signings. Crouch, Jones, Walters, Ethrington, Whitehead, Cameron, Sorrenson, Jerome as players who have performed well for the club. You then have a lot of squad players that it is difficult to comment on. We have had wildcard players - Pennant, Beatie and Tuncay who have displayed moments of brilliance and also let the team down. I would probably say the two signings that stand out as bad were Kitson and Palacios - both looked good on paper but did not work out for a variety of reasons that we will never really know the truth about. Crouch was struggling before his injury when coupled up to Adam, KJ is a better option in the system TP continues to employ, TP has made some excellent signings as you pointed out above but 2-3 good ones for every bad one can't see that figure working out at all jury still out on Adam £4million,Kightly £4 million £5 million Dean Whitehead £8million Palacios £10 million Crouch £ 3 miilion Collins alot of waste in that few with a lot more wasted on others. Granted some great buys but they are now been dragged down by others playing around them who are not up to the job.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jan 14, 2013 11:43:03 GMT
I don't really want to moan too much about Saturday because for large parts of the game I think we played pretty well and I didn't feel anywhere near as bad leaving the game as I did when I left the Sunderland, QPR, Villa and Norwich games. However, I can't help but feel that on Saturday, quite possibly for the first time, our poor dealings in the last two transfer windows came back and bit us firmly on the arse. Those 15 minutes in the second half cloud a lot of what actually happened on Saturday because our weaknesses, many of which have been discussed to death on here, really were exposed by top quality opposition. I have read postings to the contrary but for me, both of our full-backs on Saturday were absolutely shocking, particularly during that ill-fated 15 minute spell. Cameron goes walkabout regularly, leaving Shawcross exposed doing 2 jobs. You will get that when a full-back bombs forward but my problem is that he doesn't bomb forward very well. Offensively, given that he wasted several good opportunities to create something (I counted 6 at least), he isn't good enough to warrant the problems he causes us defensively. We have got away with it against lesser sides, but against Southampton and again v Chelsea, they exposed this and got behind and down the sides of us too often. Cameron is a utility man and needs to be used as such. Wilko, for me, is a decent right back who for all his faults, rarely lets us down. At left back, he is awful. Absolutely awful and he seems to lose his defensive capabilities from that side as well. He should play at right back or not at all. He was cruelly exposed during that 15 minute spell second half. Not addressing our full-back position has cost us and it is a surprise it hasn't done so before now. Walters is absolutely shit on the wing and should only ever be played in the hole behind KJ. From a wide position, he isn't good defensively because he switches off when he has a specific man to mark. He is a liability when defending corners and I have now lost count of the number of goals he has cost us over the last 3 seasons as a result. However, he plays wide because Pulis has failed to address the problems with our wingers and the solution he has brought to the club is absolutely shit. Yes Mr Kightly, i'm looking in your direction. It takes a special kind of shit to score two own goals and miss a penalty and sadly for us, when he plays on the wing, Jon Walters is that special kind of shit. The only winger that I have seen in this league worse than Walters, is sadly, Michael Kightly. Kightly is causing us and our manager big problems by virtue of being crap. Pulis clearly doesn't think he is good enough so he shoves Walters wide which then means Pulis is duty bound to play the hapless Adam in the hole. It doesn't work and we are affecting pretty much 50% of our attacking threat because of one lousy signing. As for Adam...for me the less said about him the better. He was our glamour signing. The one supposedly set to improve our team and the way in which it plays. Let's be honest, he's crap. He is leggy, is a walking booking, his dead balls are shocking and his ability to pick a pass is seemingly non-existant. He is slow in foot and mind and he contributes very little in the position that he is being asked to play. He could and should have played Matty in for a chance on goal on Saturday. He dallied and by the time he delivered the pass, Matty was offside. (Great decision by Sian Massey AGAIN it has to be said) I appreciate that he is out of position for the most part but he doesn't even show glimpses of being a decent player. KJ is tailor made for the way we play but he doesn't do it often enough for some. I like KJ and thought that he played pretty well on Saturday for the most part. However, even I, as one of his biggest fans, can't defend the fact that in a team that creates few chances, when they do come, he misses too many of them. That early chance was a big miss and he should have scored. Sadly, Crouch isn't the answer as his replacement yet we spent vast sums of money to get him. I am not going into the why's and wherefores on Crouch...they have been done to death already! Whelan, for me, has been playing very well. On Saturday, he didn't have a good game yet we didn't have anyone to relieve him of his duties. Dean "second touch is a tackle" Whitehead is worse still and our 8m summer 2010 signing is a lost cause. Imagine if a fit and firing Palacios had been available to bring on after 50 minutes or so because Whelan was having a poor game? It could all have been so different. Finally we have the dear, departed Ricardo Fuller. We haven't replaced what he gave us both as a team and for a set of fans. Jerome is a decent impact sub, but he is no Ricardo Fuller. What we have instead is Michael Owen who is so fit and so good, that he cannot even get on our bench. In games like yesterday, not having the Ricardo Fuller options seems like pure folly. It was. He should still be here with us to raise and lift the crowd and the team when necessary. Sorry for the long rant/explanation, but for me, Saturday highlighted just how badly wrong we have got our transfer policy over the last two summers. Of all the players we have signed, only N'zonzi and possibly Cameron on the basis that he is a big upgrade on Danny Pugh, can be said to have been good signings. That is a sorry indictment given the money we have spent in the process. As I said at the start, I don't really want to moan too much because I thought we played pretty well on Saturday and I guess that I have just gone on to launch a serious moan. I am simply frustrated that our transfer dealings have resulted in our weaknesses being exposed by that classless, horrible bunch of bastards that are Chelsea FC. Agree with most of that.
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Post by Gods on Jan 14, 2013 12:00:22 GMT
I agree Dave.
Transfer activity in the last 2 to 3 seasons has been at best a beggar's muddle and that would be a generous description.
I don't think it has gone unnoticed at the Chairmans level.
Did I read we have hired some kind of former agent (poacher turned gamekeeper) to help put some kind of structure/modus operandi behind all of this lot?
After all the transfer budget and wages account for about 80% of our income so we really can't afford to continue to misappropriate it in this kind of slap dash fashion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 12:03:57 GMT
I agree Dave. Transfer activity in the last 2 to 3 seasons has been at best a beggar's muddle and that would be a generous description. I don't think it has gone unnoticed at the Chairmans level. Did I read we have hired some kind of former agent (poacher turned gamekeeper) who now works for a larger company who specialize in this kind of thing to help put some kind of structure/modus operandi behind all of this lot? After all the transfer budget and wages account for about 80% of our income so we really can't afford to continue to misappropriate it in this kind of slap dash fashion. Skippy the bush kangaroo could have done a better job with transfer dealings than the present incumbents, why don't we buy Wigwams scouting network off them would be cheaper in the long run.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 12:06:03 GMT
Pretty much agree with all of your post Dave, although I don't think Walters is being shoved out on the flank because TP has realised Kightly is rubbish. I think Walters is shoved out on the wing because TP has to play Adam somewhere (in the hole) and Walters of course is first name on the team sheet. Walters is ten times the player he is when he's played in the hole for us and Jones plays better with Walters behind him, in effect we're compromisng nearly a third of outfield postions, just to accomodate Charlie Adam into the team - it is an utterly ridiculous situation of epic proportions. We spent 18 million on Crouch and Palacios 18 months ago and now we wouldn't even get a third of that back for the pair - that is an absolutely shocking use of the Coates family money. Considering the vast sums of money TP has spent in the transfer market since the Cup Final, it beggars belief that we were so befeft of options at the weekend. Although in hindsight, it was an awful deal. Firstly Crouch has improved our image and got us some goals, so that's worth something. Secondly, I don't think it was purely Coates' money, the Premier League give us a bit of money you know
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 14, 2013 12:06:02 GMT
The spine of our team is carrying us through games and Saturday showed that perfectly. Our best players played very well (Asmir, Huth, Shawcross & N'zonzi), our decent plays did OK/pretty well in patches (KJ, Whelan, Ethers) whilst our weak players were very weak and exposed easily (Wilko, Cameron, Walters in the wide position and Adam). That sums it up pretty well. We've got 4 players who are completely fit for purpose for Pulisball who regularly shine and give us a sensational base. We've got another 3 - Whelan, Walters (when played in the very niche role that plays to his strengths) and KJ- who are fit for purpose but splutter a bit. Another one who was fit for purpose but is running out of gas fast and will be fit for the knackers yard very soon (Ethers). The rest are sub-par, however you dice it. Cameron has been a good signing IMO. I wouldn't necessarily start him when everyone's fit. But he seems a good sort, and a very good athlete who'll fill in okay as and when. The rest of the squad filler is well short of standard, and there's been some absolutely horrendous purchasing over the last 2 years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 12:10:25 GMT
Pretty much agree with all of your post Dave, although I don't think Walters is being shoved out on the flank because TP has realised Kightly is rubbish. I think Walters is shoved out on the wing because TP has to play Adam somewhere (in the hole) and Walters of course is first name on the team sheet. Walters is ten times the player he is when he's played in the hole for us and Jones plays better with Walters behind him, in effect we're compromisng nearly a third of outfield postions, just to accomodate Charlie Adam into the team - it is an utterly ridiculous situation of epic proportions. We spent 18 million on Crouch and Palacios 18 months ago and now we wouldn't even get a third of that back for the pair - that is an absolutely shocking use of the Coates family money. Considering the vast sums of money TP has spent in the transfer market since the Cup Final, it beggars belief that we were so befeft of options at the weekend. Although in hindsight, it was an awful deal. Firstly Crouch has improved our image and got us some goals, so that's worth something. Secondly, I don't think it was purely Coates' money, the Premier League give us a bit of money you know He may have improved our image but has he improved our team ?
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Post by Pirate on Jan 14, 2013 12:12:33 GMT
Pretty much agree with all of your post Dave, although I don't think Walters is being shoved out on the flank because TP has realised Kightly is rubbish. I think Walters is shoved out on the wing because TP has to play Adam somewhere (in the hole) and Walters of course is first name on the team sheet. Walters is ten times the player he is when he's played in the hole for us and Jones plays better with Walters behind him, in effect we're compromisng nearly a third of outfield postions, just to accomodate Charlie Adam into the team - it is an utterly ridiculous situation of epic proportions. We spent 18 million on Crouch and Palacios 18 months ago and now we wouldn't even get a third of that back for the pair - that is an absolutely shocking use of the Coates family money. Considering the vast sums of money TP has spent in the transfer market since the Cup Final, it beggars belief that we were so befeft of options at the weekend. Although in hindsight, it was an awful deal. Firstly Crouch has improved our image and got us some goals, so that's worth something. Secondly, I don't think it was purely Coates' money, the Premier League give us a bit of money you know They do give us some money agreed, but the way TP bangs on about " protecting the families money " you would expect better than buying players with no clue how to use them, or players that are not needed or don't suit the team at all!
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 14, 2013 12:13:30 GMT
I don't really want to moan too much about Saturday because for large parts of the game I think we played pretty well and I didn't feel anywhere near as bad leaving the game as I did when I left the Sunderland, QPR, Villa and Norwich games. However, I can't help but feel that on Saturday, quite possibly for the first time, our poor dealings in the last two transfer windows came back and bit us firmly on the arse. Those 15 minutes in the second half cloud a lot of what actually happened on Saturday because our weaknesses, many of which have been discussed to death on here, really were exposed by top quality opposition. I have read postings to the contrary but for me, both of our full-backs on Saturday were absolutely shocking, particularly during that ill-fated 15 minute spell. Cameron goes walkabout regularly, leaving Shawcross exposed doing 2 jobs. You will get that when a full-back bombs forward but my problem is that he doesn't bomb forward very well. Offensively, given that he wasted several good opportunities to create something (I counted 6 at least), he isn't good enough to warrant the problems he causes us defensively. We have got away with it against lesser sides, but against Southampton and again v Chelsea, they exposed this and got behind and down the sides of us too often. Cameron is a utility man and needs to be used as such. Wilko, for me, is a decent right back who for all his faults, rarely lets us down. At left back, he is awful. Absolutely awful and he seems to lose his defensive capabilities from that side as well. He should play at right back or not at all. He was cruelly exposed during that 15 minute spell second half. Not addressing our full-back position has cost us and it is a surprise it hasn't done so before now. Walters is absolutely shit on the wing and should only ever be played in the hole behind KJ. From a wide position, he isn't good defensively because he switches off when he has a specific man to mark. He is a liability when defending corners and I have now lost count of the number of goals he has cost us over the last 3 seasons as a result. However, he plays wide because Pulis has failed to address the problems with our wingers and the solution he has brought to the club is absolutely shit. Yes Mr Kightly, i'm looking in your direction. It takes a special kind of shit to score two own goals and miss a penalty and sadly for us, when he plays on the wing, Jon Walters is that special kind of shit. The only winger that I have seen in this league worse than Walters, is sadly, Michael Kightly. Kightly is causing us and our manager big problems by virtue of being crap. Pulis clearly doesn't think he is good enough so he shoves Walters wide which then means Pulis is duty bound to play the hapless Adam in the hole. It doesn't work and we are affecting pretty much 50% of our attacking threat because of one lousy signing. As for Adam...for me the less said about him the better. He was our glamour signing. The one supposedly set to improve our team and the way in which it plays. Let's be honest, he's crap. He is leggy, is a walking booking, his dead balls are shocking and his ability to pick a pass is seemingly non-existant. He is slow in foot and mind and he contributes very little in the position that he is being asked to play. He could and should have played Matty in for a chance on goal on Saturday. He dallied and by the time he delivered the pass, Matty was offside. (Great decision by Sian Massey AGAIN it has to be said) I appreciate that he is out of position for the most part but he doesn't even show glimpses of being a decent player. KJ is tailor made for the way we play but he doesn't do it often enough for some. I like KJ and thought that he played pretty well on Saturday for the most part. However, even I, as one of his biggest fans, can't defend the fact that in a team that creates few chances, when they do come, he misses too many of them. That early chance was a big miss and he should have scored. Sadly, Crouch isn't the answer as his replacement yet we spent vast sums of money to get him. I am not going into the why's and wherefores on Crouch...they have been done to death already! Whelan, for me, has been playing very well. On Saturday, he didn't have a good game yet we didn't have anyone to relieve him of his duties. Dean "second touch is a tackle" Whitehead is worse still and our 8m summer 2010 signing is a lost cause. Imagine if a fit and firing Palacios had been available to bring on after 50 minutes or so because Whelan was having a poor game? It could all have been so different. Finally we have the dear, departed Ricardo Fuller. We haven't replaced what he gave us both as a team and for a set of fans. Jerome is a decent impact sub, but he is no Ricardo Fuller. What we have instead is Michael Owen who is so fit and so good, that he cannot even get on our bench. In games like yesterday, not having the Ricardo Fuller options seems like pure folly. It was. He should still be here with us to raise and lift the crowd and the team when necessary. Sorry for the long rant/explanation, but for me, Saturday highlighted just how badly wrong we have got our transfer policy over the last two summers. Of all the players we have signed, only N'zonzi and possibly Cameron on the basis that he is a big upgrade on Danny Pugh, can be said to have been good signings. That is a sorry indictment given the money we have spent in the process. As I said at the start, I don't really want to moan too much because I thought we played pretty well on Saturday and I guess that I have just gone on to launch a serious moan. I am simply frustrated that our transfer dealings have resulted in our weaknesses being exposed by that classless, horrible bunch of bastards that are Chelsea FC. Good post that. Not in total agreement on all your points but overall that's a very fair assessment. We have weaknesses and when a good side pinpoints them we're in trouble. Pulis has created key areas in our team because of the way he sets up and, by failing to adequately fill and reinforce those key areas, he's left us open to being found out. I think Saturday was a bit of a freakish game in some ways but worryingly our defence seems vulnerable now and the full back question is critical.
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Post by worcsstokie15 on Jan 14, 2013 12:18:00 GMT
Don't know if anyone saw the Harry Redknapp article in Saturdays telegraph but Redknapp made a comment about how he expects Daniel Levy to be pushing his "buy one get one free" deal on deadline day - I couldn't help but think of Crouchy and Palacios and how, in short, we were conned.
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