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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 17, 2012 0:24:42 GMT
Ethers has gone at the game, TP will realise it and then everyone on here.
He's done. Gone. I mean done....and gone.....finished....ruined etc
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 17, 2012 0:25:18 GMT
Ethers has gone at the game, TP will realise it and then everyone on here. He's done. Gone. I mean done....and gone.....finished....ruined etc I cant understand why so many are refusing to accept this obvious fact.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 17, 2012 0:26:10 GMT
When we sell N'zonzi to one of the bigger clubs for 3 times the money (at least) that we paid for him, I think we will all agree that N'zonzi was a cracking signing.
He has been a cracking signing to date. We don't need time to tell us that.
With Rory on his last legs, without N'zonzi, we would have been left with a Whelan/Whitehead combination again and we know how bad that particular duo are when they play together.
N'zonzi has improved us massively and we keep the ball better as a result. In fact, he makes us positively "tippy tappy" in comparison to what we were!
EDIT - I don't disagree about the role not doing Adam any favours but equally, I would expect to see "some" flashes of brilliance even in a role that doesn't suit him.
Being a lone forward in a TP team doesn't suit Crouch but he still shows glimpses of what he can offer us. Aside from his debut and a 30 minute spell at Manure, Adam has consistently failed to do that. Even his dead balls/free kicks/corners have been poor.
I don't think Adam is "all that" and I didn't before we signed him and think he is reminiscent of Tuncay in lots of ways. A luxury type player that TP would never trust and would never truly know how to utilise effectively...or want to utilise effectively.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 17, 2012 0:30:18 GMT
When we sell N'zonzi to one of the bigger clubs for 3 times the money (at least) that we paid for him, I think we will all agree that N'zonzi was a cracking signing. He has been a cracking signing to date. We don't need time to tell us that. With Rory on his last legs, without N'zonzi, we would have been left with a Whelan/Whitehead combination again and we know how bad that particular duo are when they play together. N'zonzi has improved us massively and we keep the ball better as a result. In fact, he makes us positively "tippy tappy" in comparison to what we were! And I must say if that was "tippy tappy" at West Brom and Villa park then I never want to see it played by us again, because it sends me to sleep and results in some of the most boring football you can imagine I think we did need a new midfielder dont get me wrong; absolutely...but with our system we needed good wingers and a left back far more than we needed a defensive mid. As it stands i'm happy we've got Nzonzi and hes still young. But he hasnt shown enough for me so far to suggest he should/will be at a Man Utd or a Chelsea/Man City. In fact I think Stoke is just about right for him. I wouldnt be surprised to see him be a mainstay in our midfield for the next 10 years!
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 17, 2012 0:31:38 GMT
He was incredible for Blackpool. He scored about 30 goals in 70 odd league games for them playing in a deep lying central midfield role. Thats an extraordinary return. Even the likes of sir Alex valued him at £10 million for his set pieces alone and its no coincidence that he was nominated for a pfa. Something the rest of our squad could only dream of. Blackpool ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D How did their stint in the PL go again? FFS, fucking Blackpool ;D Have you decided to argue against yourself here?
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Post by stockportstokie on Dec 17, 2012 0:37:32 GMT
Blackpool ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D How did their stint in the PL go again? FFS, fucking Blackpool ;D Have you decided to argue against yourself here?
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Post by prem4stoke on Dec 17, 2012 0:39:57 GMT
Cameron is a good right back, hes just not as good on the left. I disagree. He simply isn't good enough for the Prem. We have reached the point where he needs to be taken aside and told to find himself a club in a less demanding division. I respect your opinion but I think he was good at right back and also good going forward. Pulis obviously thinks he is better than Wilko and Shotton thats why he is playing left back due to us having no cover after Wilsons injury. He did have a bad game on Saturday but not worthy of a knee jerk reaction.
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Post by foster on Dec 17, 2012 8:15:21 GMT
I disagree. He simply isn't good enough for the Prem. We have reached the point where he needs to be taken aside and told to find himself a club in a less demanding division. I respect your opinion but I think he was good at right back and also good going forward. Pulis obviously thinks he is better than Wilko and Shotton thats why he is playing left back due to us having no cover after Wilsons injury. He did have a bad game on Saturday but not worthy of a knee jerk reaction. Just ignore March. He still thinks Mama is good enough for the Prem. That in itself voids any opinion he has on anything related to football or otherwise. In other news. Why the fuck do Stoke fans keep moaning about our current players? We're in the top half, getting good results, getting some praise for once from the media, have an excellent defensive record and are no where near relegation. I can see why people would moan during the back end of last season, but why the front end of this season? The amount of negatively and animosity aimed at the current squad is staggering.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 8:53:08 GMT
Adam, Kightly and Cameron have not improved the team one jot and all look like liabilities. In fact, their performances are deteriorating alarmingly. I can't see any of them playing for us next season. Indeed. I'm not convinced Nzonzi is the answer either. I thought he was going to be a positive thinking midfielder like the one we've been craving for 10 years. I havent seen a lot to think hes anything other than a more majestic Whitehead. What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst. I mean ffs Walters and Wilko were our best players on Saturday. That says alot. Being a defensive midfielder is an important job you know Nick? Not every midfielder can be Iniesta. We're not going to see an especially positive thinking midfielder in the cage. That's Pulis' way. As long as he's here they're going to be two defensive-minded midfielders and as long as they do the dirty work and use the ball well, whether it's a five yard pass out wide or a cracking through ball, they're doing their job.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 8:54:41 GMT
Ethers has gone at the game, TP will realise it and then everyone on here. He's done. Gone. I mean done....and gone.....finished....ruined etc I thought that until Saturday and then he had his best game for months. Neither him nor Kightly have been consistent enough this year.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2012 8:56:34 GMT
Jesus wept, N'Zonzi kept one of the best midfielders in Premier League who is being linked with £30 million pound moves to Real Madrid and Man Yoo and people think he played poorly? He was given a task, that task was to neutralise key man, he did and with it we neutralised Everton on the whole.
He didn't influence the game on the ball but he did by keeping their star man quiet.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 17, 2012 9:10:37 GMT
Jesus wept, N'Zonzi kept one of the best midfielders in Premier League who is being linked with £30 million pound moves to Real Madrid and Man Yoo and people think he played poorly? He was given a task, that task was to neutralise key man, he did and with it we neutralised Everton on the whole. He didn't influence the game on the ball but he did by keeping their star man quiet. In the same way that Walters keeps the likes of Scholes quiet every season
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 17, 2012 9:13:50 GMT
Jesus wept, N'Zonzi kept one of the best midfielders in Premier League who is being linked with £30 million pound moves to Real Madrid and Man Yoo and people think he played poorly? He was given a task, that task was to neutralise key man, he did and with it we neutralised Everton on the whole. He didn't influence the game on the ball but he did by keeping their star man quiet. In the same way that Walters keeps the likes of Scholes quiet every season He did that one season and he kept Baines quiet on Saturday, which allowed Wilko to get forward more. N'Zonzi dominated one of the best midfielders in the Premier League. That's ok with me!
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Post by mcf on Dec 17, 2012 9:36:49 GMT
Adam finds it tough in that role because he simply doesn't have the legs for it. To be fair, not many would.
That said, I'm happy for it to play out a little longer yet as Adam has scored a couple of goals and he is capable of quality delivery.
I didn't think there was a single player worthy of criticism on the day.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 17, 2012 9:48:33 GMT
Ethers is a better player than Kightly will ever be. owt else is conjecture. Adam can play, unfortunatley, I doubt it will be for us Kightly will run past a man in the next two years bun, something Matty hasn't done in the past two years. He will run past someone for sure. Whether the ball is at his feet is another matter. Even if it is it will not be under control and he will proabably run it out of play or lose it. I said after 2 weeks Kightly is shit. Wolves couldn't wait to get rid yet made WHU pay through the nose for Jarvis.
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Post by foster on Dec 17, 2012 9:51:31 GMT
Kightly will run past a man in the next two years bun, something Matty hasn't done in the past two years. He will run past someone for sure. Whether the ball is at his feet is another matter. Even if it is it will not be under control and he will proabably run it out of play or lose it. I said after 2 weeks Kightly is shit. Wolves couldn't wait to get rid yet made WHU pay through the nose for Jarvis. And you were wrong then as well.
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Post by fca47 on Dec 17, 2012 10:14:45 GMT
I don't know who we are expecting Adam to pass the ball to, as there is hardly ever anyone in front of him, for this system to work the other midfielders need to run past him and actually give him a pass. It was evident watching Nzonzi that he will not move over the halfway line, there were quite a few instances when he could have got the ball but chose to let them get it rather than move forward.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 17, 2012 10:18:27 GMT
Kightly is incredibly frustrating.
He pops up in the right place at the right time but invariably does sweet FA.
Not writing off Adam yet. It took Kav a while to find his feet with us before becoming a key figure. I hope Adam does the same. He's not filling me with confidence though......
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Dec 17, 2012 11:13:26 GMT
I can't help thinking that a major part of the problem is our need for a proper second striker to play off our centre forward. If it has to be Walters then get him up there. We then need to set up our midfield three in a way that gets the most out of Adam, so play him in a deeper role but allow him a bit more license to roam (unlikely, I know in a Pulis team). N'Zonzi and Whelan can cover off their defensive duties more than adequately.
Quite frankly I think we need to revisit our strikeforce as the Crouch/Jones conundrum will continue unless a quality strike partner is found. Jerome may have to go to help fund this purchase and why the hell we would hang on to Owen beyond January I don't know. A new left winger is desperately needed and I'd hope January brings one as Ethers is half the player he was and Kightly should only be cover for left and right wing.
To conclude, I must say that the Walters obsession (for all of his qualities) is a factor we shouldn't ignore when trying to reason how we can improve.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 17, 2012 11:21:07 GMT
I would previously have argued against such an approach Jimmy but when you think about it right now, we are actually doing very well whilst getting the best part of nothing, creatively, from one side of the pitch, arguably both.
We are playing with 1 winger whereas normally people would demand two wingers.
Perhaps the answer with Adam is one you touch on.
Clearly Walters has to play because he is TP's lovechild as well as being extremely useful against certain opposition (thought he did his job excellently on Saturday by the way).
With this in mind, I would be thinking of getting Walters back in his more traditional role behind KJ, play Adam as part of a narrow midfield, giving him license to roam around wherever he wants.
The problem is that we all know that this will not happen in a TP team and what you would end up with would be Adam on the right or left wing, as happened at Norwich and in the Fulham home match.
I just don't see Adam fitting the best Stoke City 11 right now given our knowledge of what TP demands from the structure of the team and the players as individuals.
The big thing for me is that we are still playing our traditional 4-4-1-1 formation, despite protestations to the contrary so Adam needs to fit somewhere within that and he doesn't.
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Post by AlliG on Dec 17, 2012 13:43:49 GMT
He was incredible for Blackpool. He scored about 30 goals in 70 odd league games for them playing in a deep lying central midfield role. Thats an extraordinary return. Even the likes of sir Alex valued him at £10 million for his set pieces alone and its no coincidence that he was nominated for a pfa. Something the rest of our squad could only dream of. Why should being played in an unfamiliar position turn him from a player who was apparently worth £10m for his set-pieces alone into a player who looks like he has never taken a free-kick or corner in his life? In a team set up for set-pieces as much as we are, surely a "set-piece expert" should at least shine in that part of the game? The biggest disappointment so far with Charlie has not been how he has performed in the role he has been asked to play but how poor his delivery has been. Who would have expected Whelan to now be our dead ball expert?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 17, 2012 14:35:56 GMT
He was incredible for Blackpool. He scored about 30 goals in 70 odd league games for them playing in a deep lying central midfield role. Thats an extraordinary return. Even the likes of sir Alex valued him at £10 million for his set pieces alone and its no coincidence that he was nominated for a pfa. Something the rest of our squad could only dream of. Why should being played in an unfamiliar position turn him from a player who was apparently worth £10m for his set-pieces alone into a player who looks like he has never taken a free-kick or corner in his life? In a team set up for set-pieces as much as we are, surely a "set-piece expert" should at least shine in that part of the game? The biggest disappointment so far with Charlie has not been how he has performed in the role he has been asked to play but how poor his delivery has been. Who would have expected Whelan to now be our dead ball expert? He won't have just lost the ability to do that will he? It comes with confidence. He has no confidence which in part is due to his inability to play in a role that he is clearly not suited to.
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Post by stockportstokie on Dec 17, 2012 14:49:38 GMT
Why should being played in an unfamiliar position turn him from a player who was apparently worth £10m for his set-pieces alone into a player who looks like he has never taken a free-kick or corner in his life? In a team set up for set-pieces as much as we are, surely a "set-piece expert" should at least shine in that part of the game? The biggest disappointment so far with Charlie has not been how he has performed in the role he has been asked to play but how poor his delivery has been. Who would have expected Whelan to now be our dead ball expert? He won't have just lost the ability to do that will he? It comes with confidence. He has no confidence which in part is due to his inability to play in a role that he is clearly not suited to. How many times? ADAM IS WANK
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 17, 2012 14:59:03 GMT
He won't have just lost the ability to do that will he? It comes with confidence. He has no confidence which in part is due to his inability to play in a role that he is clearly not suited to. How many times? ADAM IS WANKNo he's not. He's not been at his best so far with us yet he's still produced two quality finishes and plenty of decent passes. If/when he comes to terms with his role or we change our approach to accommodate him then we might see him start to deliver to his full potential. Over-rated = possibly. Wank = definitely not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 15:55:16 GMT
Have to say that Kightly hasn't impressed me one bit and as for Adam i think its very hard to judge the bloke in the position he's being asked to play so the jury's out on him for me.
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Post by foster on Dec 17, 2012 16:23:02 GMT
Put it this way. At the back of last season we didn''t have the wanky Adam or Kightly in the team and we were fucking wank.
So far this season we're doing well. Which is quite surprising considering we're doing it with these two wankers, and the amount of other wank players we seem to have in our wank squad.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 17, 2012 16:43:27 GMT
meanwhile, at the same point of last season, we had gathered more points from our games with a wank squad that hadn't been boosted by the brilliance of Adam and Kightly.
What's your point Foster????
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Post by RINGO STARR on Dec 17, 2012 16:46:18 GMT
I don't know who we are expecting Adam to pass the ball to, as there is hardly ever anyone in front of him, for this system to work the other midfielders need to run past him and actually give him a pass. It was evident watching Nzonzi that he will not move over the halfway line, there were quite a few instances when he could have got the ball but chose to let them get it rather than move forward. This. This, and This again. X 1,000 If ever there was a case of a player being made to look poor then its Charlie Adam being deployed in this horrible 4-5-1 formation. This formation is devoid of any creativity and in my opinion is making decent players like Adam and Peter Crouch (to name but two) look poor. Whilst I agree that the formation has its merits when away from home, it is far too negative for games at the Britannia where the majority of the other 19 teams in the division fear playing. Teh 4-5-1 at Spurs at the weekend might see us gain a valuable and well earned point which will be a complete bonus. On boxing day and on teh 29th against Soton, we need to play with two wingers and two forwards and go for all six points. That's all I ask.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 17, 2012 16:47:58 GMT
WE ARE NOT PLAYING 4-5-1.
WE ARE PLAYING 4-4-1-1 JUST LIKE WE ALWAYS HAVE DONE!!!!
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Post by dozintheseventees on Dec 17, 2012 17:35:49 GMT
WE ARE NOT PLAYING 4-5-1. WE ARE PLAYING 4-4-1-1 JUST LIKE WE ALWAYS HAVE DONE!!!! I think the whole fucking lot of them are WANK. Can't run, dribble, pass, create or score. Ever likely were fucking rock bottom with -6 points. Jesus fucking wept!!! BTW Dave - No idea why I picked on your quote. Sorry mate I'm fucking pissed off with all the moaning.
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