|
Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 16, 2012 23:25:56 GMT
Adam is hugely inconsistent but has talent I still think if we're patient he will pay off. I think Matty was tidy if unspectacular yesterday and for me Is a better option than Kights. Isn't it funny that even though we've never played really well all season we can still be 9th. We must be doing something right. I still think we need a few ins and outs before we get it right.
*outs* Crouchy - Love the guy but if we can get anywhere like our money back we should invest elsewhere. Palacios - He's just never going to play. Upson - We have GCam and Edu as cover. Pennant - Very talented but a liability with his attitude.
*ins* Bent - Just what we need a Goascorer. Downing - Will suit hard working winger. Olsson - LB and LW cover. Huddlestone (loan) - With Parker back now could he be an option?
Unlikely but I think we'd be a better side for those changes
............................Bego........................
Wilko.........Ryan.............Huth.......Olsson
Walters.....NZonzi....Huddlestone...Downing
..................Jones.........Bent....................
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:26:25 GMT
Fuck me! After reading the last two posts I'm off to self harm!! ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif) Some people are never happy. Cameron and Adam playing in positions totally alien to them, Kightly was dropped after a couple of fair to middling cameos from Ethers and has struggled since. (and so has Ethers!) Any player needs a run in a side to get some sort of form, they can't just produce it instantly after weeks on the sidelines. This season has been a big improvement on the whole, why do people always want more? We are 9th FFS!! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) ;D I agree apart from your last comment. It hasnt been an improvement so far has it? We are still dire to watch and dont look like a team capable of achieving much more than we have done in recent years. Perhaps thats as good as we can hope for, and thats fine...but i'd rather not spunk millions on players who arent better than what we've got in the process.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 16, 2012 23:26:37 GMT
Adam did absolutely zero, nowt, zilch. I really want him to do well, but he doesn't fit us at all. Agree with this - would like to see more of Kightly though,
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Dec 16, 2012 23:26:48 GMT
Can't say I disagree with Dave's general points although he's a bit more extreme in his views than me.
Charlie was poor yesterday and not much came off for him.
He hunts the ball as he's so enthusiastic and wants to be involved. The net result of this is that our one forward is then hideously isolated.
We either stick him in midfield or we don't play him, it's as simple as that.
As for Kightly, I can't help but like his application and endeavour but we need more than that from him and try as he might against Everton he did look fairly crap when he came on.
Matty isn't doing much more either so the flanks is somewhere we need to focus on next month.
I'm really hoping that the Newcastle game and yesterday wake Tone up from this slumber that means we only play one forward at home.
I can live with it away but not at the Brit.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:27:44 GMT
Adam is hugely inconsistent but has talent I still think if we're patient he will pay off. I think Matty was tidy if unspectacular yesterday and for me Is a better option than Kights. Isn't it funny that even though we've never played really well all season we can still be 9th. We must be doing something right. I still think we need a few ins and outs before we get it right. *outs* Crouchy - Love the guy but if we can get anywhere like our money back we should invest elsewhere. Palacios - He's just never going to play. Upson - We have GCam and Edu as cover. Pennant - Very talented but a liability with his attitude. *ins* Bent - Just what we need a Goascorer. Downing - Will suit hard working winger. Olsson - LB and LW cover. Huddlestone (loan) - With Parker back now could he be an option? Unlikely but I think we'd be a better side for those changes ............................Bego........................ Wilko.........Ryan.............Huth.......Olsson Walters.....NZonzi....Huddlestone...Downing ..................Jones.........Bent.................... To be fair mate I wouldnt read anything into the league position. If we lose at White Hart Lane we could easily slip back to 12th. We need new players in January.
|
|
|
Post by forwardpass on Dec 16, 2012 23:28:19 GMT
Cameron as had no break after playing In the US. We have to allow for some dip in form.
|
|
|
Post by stockportstokie on Dec 16, 2012 23:29:16 GMT
Blackpool ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D How did their stint in the PL go again? FFS, fucking Blackpool ;D Hold on a sec. Surely that makes his achievments with them all the more remarkable? If he scored 15 goals with Man Utd it would be less fa an achievement because he would be surrounded by incredible talent. He was playing with a bunch of championship players and almost single handedly carried them to premier league safety (along with carrying them to promotion). Blackpools game plan was total attack with no regard to anything else. It's not difficult to work out why his goal stats appear so remarkable. DJ Campbell was the top scoring Englishman in the PL that season ffs. The stats don't lie, but they certainly paint a false picture. SJW would have grabbed himself 15+ goals in that team. The crux is that shit doesn't work in the long term, which is why they went down. Charlie Adam's season for Blackpool counts for shit.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:29:50 GMT
He didn't score his goals from a deep lying role, though. He played as the advanced midfielder with Vaughan and that other bloke behind him. He didnt. He had a free role where he could play wherever the fuck he wanted. Hence you would regularly see him pinging 60 yard balls from his own penalty areas just as often as he'd be in the opposition area scoring goals. Its how he played in his first game with us at Wigan. There is no coincidence that this was his best performance for us by a country mile. He was allowed to run the show and do what he wanted.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:31:00 GMT
Hold on a sec. Surely that makes his achievments with them all the more remarkable? If he scored 15 goals with Man Utd it would be less fa an achievement because he would be surrounded by incredible talent. He was playing with a bunch of championship players and almost single handedly carried them to premier league safety (along with carrying them to promotion). Blackpools game plan was total attack with no regard to anything else. It's not difficult to work out why his goal stats appear so remarkable. DJ Campbell was the top scoring Englishman in the PL that season ffs. The stats don't lie, but they certainly paint a false picture. SJW would have grabbed himself 15+ goals in that team. The crux is that shit doesn't work in the long term, which is why they went down. Charlie Adam's season for Blackpool counts for shit. I think thats nonsense, dont buy it whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2012 23:31:27 GMT
N'zonzi is absolute quality. How can anyone say "they aren't convinced by him".
For those that love football but aren't particularly well versed in some of the finer aspects of the game, N'zonzi was deployed to stop Fellaini, Everton's star performer and arguably player of the season (for the whole league) so far.
Hence he wasn't as "stand out" as normal because he was tasked with stopping Fellaini and all supply into him.
He did it brilliantly because Fellaini, on the day, was their worst player.
As for Stafford's comment above, I can only smile. Stafford you are fast becoming to the oatcake what the Fail are to the football league...a joke figure who never fails to consistently make themself appear like a complete and utter bellend!
Well done on succeeding again!
The post has nothing to do with attention seeking but more an observation that Adam "really isn't all that". Aside from his debut v Wigan and a 30 minute performance away at Manure, he has been a huge disappointment. He shows very little quality in all honesty and that has nothing to do with the position he is being used in. You would at least expect glimpses of what he can do. We see nothing on a weekly basis.
Given that he is currently a key cog in the Pulis wheel, that is a tad concerning to me because we are currently doing brilliantly despite playing with 10 men every week. Also, playing with him, makes our forwards job all the more difficult, effectively leaving us with 9 men.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:36:08 GMT
N'zonzi is absolute quality. How can anyone say "they aren't convinced by him". For those that love football but aren't particularly well versed in some of the finer aspects of the game, N'zonzi was deployed to stop Fellaini, Everton's star performer and arguably player of the season (for the whole league) so far. Hence he wasn't as "stand out" as normal because he was tasked with stopping Fellaini and all supply into him. He did it brilliantly because Fellaini, on the day, was their worst player. As for Stafford's comment above, I can only smile. Stafford you are fast becoming to the oatcake what the Fail are to the football league...a joke figure who never fails to consistently make themself appear like a complete and utter bellend! Well done on succeeding again! The post has nothing to do with attention seeking but more an observation that Adam "really isn't all that". Aside from his debut v Wigan and a 30 minute performance away at Manure, he has been a huge disappointment. He shows very little quality in all honesty and that has nothing to do with the position he is being used in. You would at least expect glimpses of what he can do. We see nothing on a weekly basis. Given that he is currently a key cog in the Pulis wheel, that is a tad concerning to me because we are currently doing brilliantly despite playing with 10 men every week. Also, playing with him, makes our forwards job all the more difficult, effectively leaving us with 9 men. We were shite at Villa without him so I dont buy that we are any better without him. The only time we look better when he isnt on the park is if Jerome is out there. Hes the only player in this system we've got who can make things happen out of nothing (Jerome). Dave why do you think Adams best performance was at Wigan? Nzonzi is alright but I think people are going well over the top. I'm not saying i'm not convinced by him. I'm saying hes got limitations going forward. Did we really need yet another defensive midfielder who isnt capable of scoring goals? I really hope Nzonzi can score goals and create chances but so far it doesnt look like he will. Dont get me wrong hes an upgrade...but he's not really what we needed. Put it this way...are we any better to watch now with Nzonzi than the last 4 seasons without him?
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:37:31 GMT
Dave i'm not just talking about yesterday. At Villa and Albion he showed a clear lack of positivity. It might be the managers fault...it might not; time will tell. But i think theres a reason why he cost us 3 million and isnt playing for a top team.
|
|
|
Post by stockportstokie on Dec 16, 2012 23:38:17 GMT
Blackpools game plan was total attack with no regard to anything else. It's not difficult to work out why his goal stats appear so remarkable. DJ Campbell was the top scoring Englishman in the PL that season ffs. The stats don't lie, but they certainly paint a false picture. SJW would have grabbed himself 15+ goals in that team. The crux is that shit doesn't work in the long term, which is why they went down. Charlie Adam's season for Blackpool counts for shit. I think thats nonsense, dont buy it whatsoever. Explain DJ Campbell being the top scorer then... It's pretty simple, playing in a team with such a flawed tactical approach is going to yield freakish stats, Adam being the beneficiary. Here is a fact for ya, Dean fucking Whitehead had better passing stats than Adam that season (anyone can look up that fact if they so wish). Yet because Adam was playing in such a gung ho team for one season (who got relegated) that makes him the second coming of Huddy? People need to get a grip, Adam is WANK.
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Dec 16, 2012 23:38:52 GMT
I think you're way off on N'Zonzi, Rossi.
He has been nothing but tremendous since his arrival and looks a proper footballer.
His role is clearly defined by Tone and he follows it to the letter.
I'm still of the opinion that we could (at home) play him with Adam in a central two but TP won't entertain it.
|
|
|
Post by Roy Cropper on Dec 16, 2012 23:39:15 GMT
Jesus, N'Zonzi has ONE game where he isn't by far the best midfielder on the pitch, and somebody is comparing him to Whitehead.. deary, deary me.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Dec 16, 2012 23:40:13 GMT
Adam, Kightly and Cameron have not improved the team one jot and all look like liabilities. In fact, their performances are deteriorating alarmingly. I can't see any of them playing for us next season. Indeed. I'm not convinced Nzonzi is the answer either. I thought he was going to be a positive thinking midfielder like the one we've been craving for 10 years. I havent seen a lot to think hes anything other than a more majestic Whitehead. What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst. I mean ffs Walters and Wilko were our best players on Saturday. That says alot. Is this a serious post? I can't see any smilies though. You really are losing your marbles lad. "What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst" You're referring to NZonzi here? Good God.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:40:52 GMT
I think you're way off on N'Zonzi, Rossi. He has been nothing but tremendous since his arrival and looks a proper footballer. His role is clearly defined by Tone and he follows it to the letter. I'm still of the opinion that we could (at home) play him with Adam in a central two but TP won't entertain it. I dont understand why we always get carried away with players because they dont give the ball away needlessly every 2 seconds. Nzonzi is clearly an upgrade on what we had, im not denying that. He is clearly a more majestic midfielder than what we've had in the past. Did we really need another defensive midfielder who wouldnt create and score? Thats my point. Nzonzi is good at what he does...but some of the suggestions that hes some kind of unknown gem who should be playing for Man Utd are ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Dec 16, 2012 23:41:03 GMT
How will they though? Adam as good as he is, looks totally inept at playing this insane role that the manager insists on playing. Cameron is deteriorating and clearly isnt a full back as he stated himself. Kightly cant buy a game. Cameron is a good right back, hes just not as good on the left. I disagree. He simply isn't good enough for the Prem. We have reached the point where he needs to be taken aside and told to find himself a club in a less demanding division.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2012 23:41:53 GMT
Players often have fine debuts Rossi then go on to be pretty crap.
Tony Ellis had a superb debut and was shit, as did Billy Whitehurst and the unforgettable George Siebech and Tony Scully.
I thought Adam was a "hit or miss" player for Blackpool in all honesty. He was great at the Brit but awful at Bloomfield Road. It's on the day with him, such is the type of player he is.
For all the good he did for them, I can also recall him costing them several goals (2 away at Birmingham stick in my mind). They built their team around him and got relegated.
At Liverpool, he was an unmitigated disaster and his performance at the Brit, in our 1-0 victory last season, was one of the worst I have seen since we arrived in the Premier League.
We have seen this type of thing before. Boro built their team around Tuncay and got relegated. He signed for us, everyone was chuffed yet the truth is he was actually pretty crap.
EDIT - Rossi - if you thought that we were crap to watch and boring on Saturday, then I don't think you will ever be pleased with a Stoke performance. We were excellent against a very good Everton side and it was a thoroughly enjoyable game.
|
|
|
Post by spongebobflathead on Dec 16, 2012 23:42:09 GMT
At Wigan Adam played a lot deeper and ran the show , brilliant , dave if you think Adam is just wank and not particulary because he's playing out of position , but just wank wank then I've finished with you on this board mate !
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Dec 16, 2012 23:42:18 GMT
I think you're way off on N'Zonzi, Rossi. He has been nothing but tremendous since his arrival and looks a proper footballer. His role is clearly defined by Tone and he follows it to the letter. I'm still of the opinion that we could (at home) play him with Adam in a central two but TP won't entertain it. I dont understand why we always get carried away with players because they dont give the ball away needlessly every 2 seconds. Nzonzi is clearly an upgrade on what we had, im not denying that. He is clearly a more majestic midfielder than what we've had in the past. Did we really need another defensive midfielder who wouldnt create and score? Thats my point. Nzonzi is good at what he does...but some of the suggestions that hes some kind of unknown gem who should be playing for Man Utd are ridiculous. You're lecturing people on not getting carried away about certain players? ;D Pot Kettle Black
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:42:50 GMT
Jesus, N'Zonzi has ONE game where he isn't by far the best midfielder on the pitch, and somebody is comparing him to Whitehead.. deary, deary me. Youre also missing my point. Are we any better to watch this season? Do we create more chances from midfield? Do our midfielders score goals? Did we need an awesome defensive player? No. Not in my opinion. I'm glad we signed Nzonzi but we had far more pressing issues that needed addressing in the summer that simply havent been addressed. How about a good quick forward player ? Oh wait..
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:44:25 GMT
Players often have fine debuts Rossi then go on to be pretty crap. Tony Ellis had a superb debut and was shit, as did Billy Whitehurst and the unforgettable George Siebech and Tony Scully. I thought Adam was a "hit or miss" player for Blackpool in all honesty. He was great at the Brit but awful at Bloomfield Road. It's on the day with him, such is the type of player he is. For all the good he did for them, I can also recall him costing them several goals (2 away at Birmingham stick in my mind). They built their team around him and got relegated. At Liverpool, he was an unmitigated disaster and his performance at the Brit, in our 1-0 victory last season, was one of the worst I have seen since we arrived in the Premier League. We have seen this type of thing before. Boro built their team around Tuncay and got relegated. He signed for us, everyone was chuffed yet the truth is he was actually pretty crap. Tuncay had a lot of ability. Boro didnt build their team around him...they just accomodated him in the right role. At least you agree Adam has ability. The problem isnt Adam dave, its the managers system.
|
|
|
Post by primmerz on Dec 16, 2012 23:45:39 GMT
The post has nothing to do with attention seeking but more an observation that Adam "really isn't all that". Aside from his debut v Wigan and a 30 minute performance away at Manure, he has been a huge disappointment. He shows very little quality in all honesty and that has nothing to do with the position he is being used in. You would at least expect glimpses of what he can do. We see nothing on a weekly basis. So his two match winning goals counted for nothing? his recent appearances have picked up as he is still learning the role that he has been asked to play and in a team that isn't renowned for passing it round he has to try and pick up scraps in an unfamiliar CAM postion. To say he is a huge disappointment is weird as he is playing CAM in a team that is hardly attacking and he is hardly given the ball. The performance at Villa showed we missed Adam as there was simply no link between striker and midfield at all.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:46:14 GMT
Indeed. I'm not convinced Nzonzi is the answer either. I thought he was going to be a positive thinking midfielder like the one we've been craving for 10 years. I havent seen a lot to think hes anything other than a more majestic Whitehead. What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst. I mean ffs Walters and Wilko were our best players on Saturday. That says alot. Is this a serious post? I can't see any smilies though. You really are losing your marbles lad. "What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst" You're referring to NZonzi here? Good God. I'm talking about a box to box midfielder who will create and score goals. In case you hadnt been watching Stoke for the last 10 years...this what we have needed. Nzonzi is clearly a good defensive midfielder. We didnt need a defensive midfielder. No im not referring to Nzonzi at all. Hes probably been our most effective signing. You really struggle to understand a point dont you ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Dec 16, 2012 23:48:14 GMT
I think you're way off on N'Zonzi, Rossi. He has been nothing but tremendous since his arrival and looks a proper footballer. His role is clearly defined by Tone and he follows it to the letter. I'm still of the opinion that we could (at home) play him with Adam in a central two but TP won't entertain it. I dont understand why we always get carried away with players because they dont give the ball away needlessly every 2 seconds. Nzonzi is clearly an upgrade on what we had, im not denying that. He is clearly a more majestic midfielder than what we've had in the past. Did we really need another defensive midfielder who wouldnt create and score? Thats my point. Nzonzi is good at what he does...but some of the suggestions that hes some kind of unknown gem who should be playing for Man Utd are ridiculous. It's maybe partly because we didn't have any fucker who could string two passes together prior to his arrival. His all round game is streets ahead of anyone else we have and I'm amazed that anyone can't see just how much better he is than his colleagues in midfield. He is calmness personified, he wins the ball and then finds a teammate. Sounds straightforward but his composure is a rare commodity in the league and rarer still at Stoke.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2012 23:48:54 GMT
flathead...wank may be a tad harsh but what I basically mean is that Adam is nowhere near good enough to build our team around, which, to get the best out of him, seems to be necessary.
I just don't see the quality in him. I have seen him have one good game out of 5 against us and I have seen him have two really good halves of football in the best part of 15 attempts since signing for us.
I am not impressed by what I have seen to date. I rarely defend TP's negativity, but I wouldn't play Adam in a midfield 2. He isn't playing as well as Whelan for starters and from what I see, he would be a liability. I am also really surprised at how "heavy legged" he looks.
In summary, i'm far from convinced!
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Dec 16, 2012 23:49:11 GMT
Is this a serious post? I can't see any smilies though. You really are losing your marbles lad. "What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst" You're referring to NZonzi here? Good God. I'm talking about a box to box midfielder who will create and score goals. In case you hadnt been watching Stoke for the last 10 years...this what we have needed. Nzonzi is clearly a good defensive midfielder. We didnt need a defensive midfielder. Maybe so but your going way way over the top saying "What looked our best summer of transfers for 10 years is quickly looking one of the worst" That's absolute horseshit. I'd rather watch NZonzi play in that role than any of our other midfielders and for me he has made us better to watch. He's a good player.
|
|
|
Post by stockportstokie on Dec 16, 2012 23:49:51 GMT
Another fact - In his 'wonder' season with Blackpool, he had a total of 112 shots over the course of the season and scored just 12.
Fucking Zidane that lad.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 16, 2012 23:52:04 GMT
I dont understand why we always get carried away with players because they dont give the ball away needlessly every 2 seconds. Nzonzi is clearly an upgrade on what we had, im not denying that. He is clearly a more majestic midfielder than what we've had in the past. Did we really need another defensive midfielder who wouldnt create and score? Thats my point. Nzonzi is good at what he does...but some of the suggestions that hes some kind of unknown gem who should be playing for Man Utd are ridiculous. It's maybe partly because we didn't have any fucker who could string two passes together prior to his arrival. His all round game is streets ahead of anyone else we have and I'm amazed that anyone can't see just how much better he is than his colleagues in midfield. He is calmness personified, he wins the ball and then finds a teammate. Sounds straightforward but his composure is a rare commodity in the league and rarer still at Stoke. Am I disagreeing with this? !!! My point is we have far more pressing issues than bringing in a midfielder who does the dirty work in more style. If i was being really controversial i'd say Whelan has been just as good. Nzonzi has been decent for sure, but we need pace and players who think positively. Dont you think? I'm sick and tired of seeing negative football. Its like when Kightly missed that shot yesterday, same goes for Jerome...so what...fair play to the lads for having a go. Thats what I want to see...I want to see players looking to win a game from the off. Nzonzi is a good player and i'm glad we've signed him, but he isnt quite the gem some are making out and we needed wingers more than we needed him.
|
|