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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 23, 2012 9:26:53 GMT
talk of a balck footballers federation now. the bottom line is the FA should have done more. chelsea should have done more That's ludicrous then you are creating an issue and building a huge divide just because of a few idiots. There will always be racists. If we want to build an us and them mentality this is the way forward. 99.9 percent of blacks and whites live in harmony do this and we let the racists win. |
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Post by rorymscfc on Oct 23, 2012 9:28:56 GMT
The debate about black managers is an interesting one. I remember when Chris Kamara was appointed back in 1998 (?) the prevailing opinion was that we had a bright, young manager with great potential. I don't recall any mention of his skin colour at all. The fact that he turned out to be crap was his downfall and that had nothing to do with his race.
The fact is that I struggle to think of a black manager who has actually done a decent job at a high level. Ince and Kamara were seen to be promising at lower league level but failed when they had chances higher up. Terry Connor was out of his depth at Wolves last season and John Barnes was an unmitigated disaster at Celtic. Ruud Gullitt was OK at Chelsea (as far as I can recall) but failed abysmally at Newcastle. Jean Tigana didn't pull up many trees at Fulham.
I think what potential black managers could do with is a successful role model - look at how over represented Glaswegian managers are in the Premier League.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 9:36:43 GMT
The debate about black managers is an interesting one. I remember when Chris Kamara was appointed back in 1998 (?) the prevailing opinion was that we had a bright, young manager with great potential. I don't recall any mention of his skin colour at all. The fact that he turned out to be crap was his downfall and that had nothing to do with his race. The fact is that I struggle to think of a black manager who has actually done a decent job at a high level. Ince and Kamara were seen to be promising at lower league level but failed when they had chances higher up. Terry Connor was out of his depth at Wolves last season and John Barnes was an unmitigated disaster at Celtic. Ruud Gullitt was OK at Chelsea (as far as I can recall) but failed abysmally at Newcastle. Jean Tigana didn't pull up many trees at Fulham. I think what potential black managers could do with is a successful role model - look at how over represented Glaswegian managers are in the Premier League. Chris Hughton....had the best league managerial start to his tenure in Newcastle history, got them promoted to the Prem breaking a record in terms of how many games were left in the season after promotion was obtianed, got them up to 8th (i think?) before being sacked for no reason then got Birmingham in to the play offs...not a bad role model surely? |
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Post by rorymscfc on Oct 23, 2012 9:41:45 GMT
The debate about black managers is an interesting one. I remember when Chris Kamara was appointed back in 1998 (?) the prevailing opinion was that we had a bright, young manager with great potential. I don't recall any mention of his skin colour at all. The fact that he turned out to be crap was his downfall and that had nothing to do with his race. The fact is that I struggle to think of a black manager who has actually done a decent job at a high level. Ince and Kamara were seen to be promising at lower league level but failed when they had chances higher up. Terry Connor was out of his depth at Wolves last season and John Barnes was an unmitigated disaster at Celtic. Ruud Gullitt was OK at Chelsea (as far as I can recall) but failed abysmally at Newcastle. Jean Tigana didn't pull up many trees at Fulham. I think what potential black managers could do with is a successful role model - look at how over represented Glaswegian managers are in the Premier League. Chris Hughton....had the best league managerial start to his tenure in Newcastle history, got them promoted to the Prem breaking a record in terms of how many games were left in the season after promotion was obtianed, got them up to 8th (i think?) before being sacked for no reason then got Birmingham in to the play offs...not a bad role model surely? So far - although it's not all rosy down at Norwich this season (Saturday's result notwithstanding). |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 23, 2012 9:44:29 GMT
talk of a balck footballers federation now. the bottom line is the FA should have done more. chelsea should have done more exaclty my point salop! you complain/protest to the people that CAN make a difference, don't be a coward and hit a smalltime charity that has absolutely no power or influence at all..it's just cowardly,unnecessary and completely 100% pointless as the people you're attacking can't do ANYTHING about the decisions at the highest levels which is where the changes need to be made. but seeing that the fa and chelsea did nothing they had to take their own stance |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 23, 2012 9:45:08 GMT
The talk of a "Black Footballers' Federation" would set race relations back a few years if it ever comes to pass. How will they decide who can join their federation? If Ashley Cole wanted to join, would they be fine with that or would they insist he joined a separate "choc ice" subsection?  Is this for black players only or can Asians, Arabs and Hispanics join? More importantly, would they be happy if some of the high profile white players decided to launch a White Footballers Association for white players only? I suspect not - and quite right as that would probably be deemed to be illegal. So why should a Black Players Federation be treated any differently? I'm sorry to sound a bit like a right wing bigot (for once!) but I forsee endless problems if this gets off the ground.  |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 23, 2012 9:51:45 GMT
The talk of a "Black Footballers' Federation" would set race relations back a few years if it ever comes to pass. How will they decide who can join their federation? If Ashley Cole wanted to join, would they be fine with that or would they insist he joined a separate "choc ice" subsection? Is this for black players only or can Asians, Arabs and Hispanics join? More importantly, would they be happy if some of the high profile white players decided to launch a White Footballers Association for white players only? I suspect not - and quite right as that would probably be deemed to be illegal. So why should a Black Players Federation be treated any differently? I'm sorry to sound a bit like a right wing bigot (for once!) but I see endless problems if this gets off the ground. the black police get away with it as does the music of white origin awards (MOWO) |
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Post by chinesedave on Oct 23, 2012 9:54:03 GMT
Alex Ferguson should respect Ferdinand's decision not to wear the Tshirt. Exactly...I know Fergie is a true socialist with good morals in life, but how can a white bloke dictate this sort of stuff to a black guy??? I'm no fan of Rio but he is bang on here, KIO is a toothless quango and if he feels a breakaway union is needed then he should go for it. Also kick it out...how can you kick something out when it's not even there? I haven't heard any racism at a British football ground for over 20 years, fucking quango preaching to fans when it's the players who are the guilty ones. That is who Rio needs to educate not us and certainly not at Stoke. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 23, 2012 10:00:02 GMT
The talk of a "Black Footballers' Federation" would set race relations back a few years if it ever comes to pass. How will they decide who can join their federation? If Ashley Cole wanted to join, would they be fine with that or would they insist he joined a separate "choc ice" subsection? Is this for black players only or can Asians, Arabs and Hispanics join? More importantly, would they be happy if some of the high profile white players decided to launch a White Footballers Association for white players only? I suspect not - and quite right as that would probably be deemed to be illegal. So why should a Black Players Federation be treated any differently? I'm sorry to sound a bit like a right wing bigot (for once!) but I see endless problems if this gets off the ground. the black police get away with it as does the music of white origin awards (MOWO) I think MOBO accepts support from people of all colours though. I presume that the Police who are members of the Black Federation are also members of the regular federation? I'm not clear whether this planned federation would have members who remained in the PFA???? Either way it seems to set player against player - I fail to see how it will stamp out racism. It seems to me that if Rio and Co feel that Terry's punishment was too lenient, their first action should have been to raise it with the PFA and try to get their backing. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 23, 2012 10:07:02 GMT
and guilty of an FA charge and currently banned from domestic football racist John Terry may well captain Chelsea and wear an anti racist captains arm band tonight.
If RDM had any gumption he would not select him for any entitled game whilst serving his domestic ban.
I am convinced that RDM is not happy with how chelsea have handled this
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Post by skip on Oct 23, 2012 10:10:43 GMT
The very idea that Ferdinand and other black players feel the need to moot/propose/threaten a black players union tells you all you need to know. Whether it will happen is an irrelevance and if it does and whether its counter productive in actuality is also an irrelevance.
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slicker
Youth Player
"CHESHIRE STOKIES"
Posts: 312
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Post by slicker on Oct 23, 2012 10:31:07 GMT
anybody with a handle on real life will know that it is impossible to stamp out racism. you can make as many laws up as you like and jail as many people as you want but when all is said and done you can not police peoples thoughts and you can not make people like each other. the whole kick racism out of football is getting as tired and tedious as the EDL AND THE BNP are on the other side of the political fence when they are telling telling people how to act think and feel. in 2012 99% of free thinking civil minded people are capable of going to a football match without resorting to violence and discrimination towards players or people in the crowd because of the colour of their skin, this is because they have standards and common decency not because of t-shirts and campaigns. nobody who holds racist views is going to intellectually question their own thoughts because of a t-shirt. England as a country has come on leaps and bounds where racism is concerned over the last 30 years but its not something that can be forced on people.
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Post by skip on Oct 23, 2012 10:49:38 GMT
...but whilst there are thick as shit racists in all social strata it's still worth making the effort though, no? If all this recent furor does is encourage the FA to reappraise racism on the terraces and the pitch (just how prevalent is it and what to do when it is witnessed) and encourages the Let's Kick It Out campaign to reflect upon its effectiveness and strategy - it is fifteen years old and possibly needs this opportunity to have a sit down and a re-think - then that has got to be a good thing.
If racism still exists then the need to talk about it openly and have strategies to deal with it still exist. To say Kick It Out is as tedious as the ELD/BNP is a rather brusque parallel drawn between a well intentioned body and a bunch of bastards, but I think I know what you mean.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 23, 2012 11:05:43 GMT
Is this for black players only or can Asians, Arabs and Hispanics join? It's for all 'minorities' Suarez the new General Secretary, Evra his number two. How very, very silly. |
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Post by rlcstokie on Oct 23, 2012 11:06:51 GMT
The talk of a "Black Footballers' Federation" would set race relations back a few years if it ever comes to pass. How will they decide who can join their federation? If Ashley Cole wanted to join, would they be fine with that or would they insist he joined a separate "choc ice" subsection? Is this for black players only or can Asians, Arabs and Hispanics join? More importantly, would they be happy if some of the high profile white players decided to launch a White Footballers Association for white players only? I suspect not - and quite right as that would probably be deemed to be illegal. So why should a Black Players Federation be treated any differently? I'm sorry to sound a bit like a right wing bigot (for once!) but I see endless problems if this gets off the ground. the black police get away with it as does the music of white origin awards (MOWO)  ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 11:27:36 GMT
exaclty my point salop! you complain/protest to the people that CAN make a difference, don't be a coward and hit a smalltime charity that has absolutely no power or influence at all..it's just cowardly,unnecessary and completely 100% pointless as the people you're attacking can't do ANYTHING about the decisions at the highest levels which is where the changes need to be made. but seeing that the fa and chelsea did nothing they had to take their own stance but they've taken a stance against an organsiation that has nothing to do with it and can't do anything about it! this campaign is to educate people, it has no authority whatsoever over rule changes, disciplinary procedures of the rulebreakers etc. the analogy i used earlier sums it up...if the government weren't doing enough about Child poverty/abse etc. would you therefore refuse to give money to Children in Need? how is the philosophy of "The FA aren't doing enough so therefore i'm going to protest against a charity that have nothing to do with the FA...that'll show 'em" going to work in any way? as i said earlier, the only way these players could REALLY protest against the governing bodies (who are the people that need telling and NOT an independent charity) is by speaking out against these bodies themselves or going on strike as one collective unit unless something IS done but they won't do that why? because they know that THEY will suffer from suspensions,fines etc. and apparently they only have the guts to rail against small charities that can't do anything about it wow Rio, you protested against the wrong people as they have no power whatsoever and nothing to do with the judgments you're unhappy with but you got your name in the papers as being some kind of cultural hero anyway....what a guy! bloody coward more like, if he (and the rest) were so appalled and insistent on doing the "Right thing" then put your salary where your ideals and principles are and stand up to the people who CAN make a difference,don't just bully a tiny charity who are basically there to educate youngsters more than anything else. |
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Post by rlcstokie on Oct 23, 2012 11:28:51 GMT
I'm sure cheadlepotter forgot to add the words "or maybe they were too intelligent" Quick everyone, Lakeland's back. Get your newspapers and put the news on, we're not allowed to have our own opinions whilst he's around remember so just copy what they say so that we don't say anything controversial or anything that may offend someone's sensitive being. And God forbid you spell something incorrectly. Or do what I do and tell him how it is in the REAL world .......or ignore him , whilst being smug and self satisfied and comforted in the knowledge, that you KNOW you are RIGHT ;D |
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Is this for black players only or can Asians, Arabs and Hispanics join?
