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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 14:58:35 GMT
To MW and Mick, Well said both of you. I agree. But could you both please insert some childish posturing and name calling next time please, I fear some of our number will struggle to understand otherwise you're right and i apologise for the lack of dick measuring also (which apparently wins arguments)...you cock ;D
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Post by Paddypotter on Sept 3, 2012 15:09:46 GMT
The danger is, when these people get enough of a voice and influence that it bleeds into the real world. Evidence of this happening on Saturday. The season we turn on the manager and hound him out, is the season we get relegated. This is both inevitable and a certainty. Sad really. Worryingly this board will probably be the start of that process. I hope these people are happy when they get their wish.[/quote]
Surely the day a majority turn against the manager it's because they think they have reason to and are already in danger of being relegated. Doing nothing may be worse.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 15:12:31 GMT
The danger is, when these people get enough of a voice and influence that it bleeds into the real world. Evidence of this happening on Saturday. The season we turn on the manager and hound him out, is the season we get relegated. This is both inevitable and a certainty. Sad really. Worryingly this board will probably be the start of that process. I hope these people are happy when they get their wish. Surely the day a majority turn against the manager it's because they think they have reason to and are already in danger of being relegated. Doing nothing may be worse.[/quote] well said Paddy......given the percentage of people that post on here will make up a tiny percentage of any crowd at a match then i think it's possibly going a bit over the top to say that this board will have anything to do with any "Process" ridiculous over reaction to a handful of true PHWs that are on here and a complete unwillingness to look the facts in the face! 1 win in 14 league games and "The Oatcake" is now being blamed for the fans frustration.........
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Post by RAF on Sept 3, 2012 15:16:41 GMT
It's so much easier and neater for some to blame the Oatcake than the man who actually runs the team.
H
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 15:20:17 GMT
It's so much easier and neater for some to blame the Oatcake than the man who actually runs the team. H and considering there are usually about 200 people on here at any one time then that amounts to about 1% of our home crowd every week.....must be down to you RAF you negative muppet i'm in no way a PHW but i think most sensible people can see that those kinds of stats (added to our "Vintage" display against Swindon) might be a slight cause for concern for ANY club regardless as to who the manager was
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Post by nick_stoke on Sept 3, 2012 15:21:51 GMT
I agree. The fans have a purpose in bringing about change when it's needed. The problem is when fans hound out a manager that has yet to finish a job he has started or is in fact doing a good job as it is. Just slower than people would like.
Football fans are not always the most level headed of people and are also prone to hysteria caused by a vocal minority. This has happened tons of times. I have already seen Liverpool fans calling for Rogers' head.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 15:26:13 GMT
I agree. The fans have a purpose in bringing about change when it's needed. The problem is when fans hound out a manager that has yet to finish a job he has started or is in fact doing a good job as it is. Just slower than people would like. Football fans are not always the most level headed of people and are also prone to hysteria caused by a vocal minority. This has happened tons of times. I have already seen Liverpool fans calling for Rogers' head. is there any evidence so far to indicate that he is "doing a good job...just slower than people would like" as opposed to the idea that he is simply playing the same football in the same way that he has his entire career?
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Post by RAF on Sept 3, 2012 15:28:18 GMT
That's completely subjective though.
H
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Post by nick_stoke on Sept 3, 2012 15:30:19 GMT
It's so much easier and neater for some to blame the Oatcake than the man who actually runs the team. H and considering there are usually about 200 people on here at any one time then that amounts to about 1% of our home crowd every week.....must be down to you RAF you negative muppet i'm in no way a PHW but i think most sensible people can see that those kinds of stats (added to our "Vintage" display against Swindon) might be a slight cause for concern for ANY club regardless as to who the manager was 200 people logged on at anyone time and a shit load of lurkers. There is a post on the main page with 100 posts and 10,000 views. Not 1% that is it? Obviously the oatcake isn't going to bring down Pulis on its own, but if you spent a lot of time on here posting or otherwise you are gonna have a hell of a lot more negative view that you would if you didn't.
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Post by alster on Sept 3, 2012 15:32:26 GMT
I agree. The fans have a purpose in bringing about change when it's needed. The problem is when fans hound out a manager that has yet to finish a job he has started or is in fact doing a good job as it is. Just slower than people would like. Football fans are not always the most level headed of people and are also prone to hysteria caused by a vocal minority. This has happened tons of times. I have already seen Liverpool fans calling for Rogers' head. is there any evidence so far to indicate that he is "doing a good job...just slower than people would like" as opposed to the idea that he is simply playing the same football in the same way that he has his entire career? Exactly, theres shit and expensive shit but they both stink.
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Post by RAF on Sept 3, 2012 15:33:58 GMT
and considering there are usually about 200 people on here at any one time then that amounts to about 1% of our home crowd every week.....must be down to you RAF you negative muppet i'm in no way a PHW but i think most sensible people can see that those kinds of stats (added to our "Vintage" display against Swindon) might be a slight cause for concern for ANY club regardless as to who the manager was 200 people logged on at anyone time and a shit load of lurkers. There is a post on the main page with 100 posts and 10,000 views. Not 1% that is it? Obviously the oatcake isn't going to bring down Pulis on its own, but if you spent a lot of time on here posting or otherwise you are gonna have a hell of a lot more negative view that you would if you didn't. I know plenty of Stokies who have never used the Oatcake, but that doesn't stop them moaning about Pulis. The fact is the bloke isn't as liked as much as some would like him to be. H
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 3, 2012 15:34:55 GMT
Staffsoatcake do you work in Maplin in Derry met a Stoke supporter in there a while ago. No. Was he working in there or shopping?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 15:36:56 GMT
and considering there are usually about 200 people on here at any one time then that amounts to about 1% of our home crowd every week.....must be down to you RAF you negative muppet i'm in no way a PHW but i think most sensible people can see that those kinds of stats (added to our "Vintage" display against Swindon) might be a slight cause for concern for ANY club regardless as to who the manager was 200 people logged on at anyone time and a shit load of lurkers. There is a post on the main page with 100 posts and 10,000 views. Not 1% that is it? Obviously the oatcake isn't going to bring down Pulis on its own, but if you spent a lot of time on here posting or otherwise you are gonna have a hell of a lot more negative view that you would if you didn't. really? i was always under the impression that people had their own brains and were aware that this was forum so represented personal opinions rather than a news stand where it only reported fact?
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Post by nick_stoke on Sept 3, 2012 15:40:09 GMT
I agree. The fans have a purpose in bringing about change when it's needed. The problem is when fans hound out a manager that has yet to finish a job he has started or is in fact doing a good job as it is. Just slower than people would like. Football fans are not always the most level headed of people and are also prone to hysteria caused by a vocal minority. This has happened tons of times. I have already seen Liverpool fans calling for Rogers' head. is there any evidence so far to indicate that he is "doing a good job...just slower than people would like" as opposed to the idea that he is simply playing the same football in the same way that he has his entire career? Oh I don't know.. Being considered premier league mainstay's by almost everyone? An FA Cup Final? A good run in Europe? If you still think we are playing the same football to what we were in our opening prem season you are watching a different team to me. The fact of the matter is, that a few years ago anything less than getting destroyed by teams like arsenal was a god send, to now, where people expect us to win. We are a team which is evolving, just at a slower pace than peoples expectations.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 15:46:27 GMT
is there any evidence so far to indicate that he is "doing a good job...just slower than people would like" as opposed to the idea that he is simply playing the same football in the same way that he has his entire career? Oh I don't know.. Being considered premier league mainstay's by almost everyone? An FA Cup Final? A good run in Europe? If you still think we are playing the same football to what we were in our opening prem season you are watching a different team to me. The fact of the matter is, that a few years ago anything less than getting destroyed by teams like arsenal was a god send, to now, where people expect us to win. We are a team which is evolving, just at a slower pace than peoples expectations. so how has our style changed since we came up? the players we have have more ability at doing what our players in the Championship did (hence us not conceeding shed loads against the big teams) but they ARE still doing the same thing in terms of style of play
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Post by elystokie on Sept 3, 2012 15:48:38 GMT
I agree. But could you both please insert some childish posturing and name calling next time please, I fear some of our number will struggle to understand otherwise you're right and i apologise for the lack of dick measuring also (which apparently wins arguments)...you cock ;D It's won you this argument, I'm sneeped (first time I've used that word in years!) ;D
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Post by RAF on Sept 3, 2012 15:53:33 GMT
is there any evidence so far to indicate that he is "doing a good job...just slower than people would like" as opposed to the idea that he is simply playing the same football in the same way that he has his entire career? Oh I don't know.. Being considered premier league mainstay's by almost everyone? An FA Cup Final? A good run in Europe? If you still think we are playing the same football to what we were in our opening prem season you are watching a different team to me. The fact of the matter is, that a few years ago anything less than getting destroyed by teams like arsenal was a god send, to now, where people expect us to win. We are a team which is evolving, just at a slower pace than peoples expectations. I suppose if you think getting pasted by Bolton away and Newcastle at home, being the lowest goal scorers in any of the professional divisions in England, coupled with our worst finish in the league evolving then fair enough. The football hasn't changed, just the personnel. And to use that sweeping statement that almost 'Everyone' considers us a Premier League mainstay, is quite frankly ridiculous. H
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Post by Onneravineet on Sept 3, 2012 16:01:30 GMT
I'm lost now...would someone tell me what to have for my tea tonight as I obviously haven't got a brain of my own. RAF anyone?
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Post by thevoid on Sept 3, 2012 16:02:50 GMT
Hi I have been a regular reader of this board over many years, and have lived through the bad years of being a Stoke supporter and taking the rough with the smooth. I feel compelled to say a few words to the anti Pulis brigade. This forum can be used as a vehicle to vent frustrations as to the way we play and the way we deal with winning and losing, it should not be a personal vendetta against either the manager the chairman or the players. Just lately I have been amazed at the negativity and the back biting from so called Stoke supporters who are slating the manager in a derogative manner. OK criticising is fine and promotes healthy debates but not in a way which is offensive and borders on slander. I can only assume that the anti Pulis brigade which have slated him since his arrival were not around in the dark days of the 80s when we were changing managers almost every season. I have been priveliged to be a Stoke supporter all my life, my first game was in 1959, so I guess you can work out that I have seen many comings and goings in this time. Please get behind the team and SUPPORT them through the good and the bad times, Tony Pulis has done wonders for our club, and Peter Coates has put his money where his mouth is, give them both the respect they deserve, and yes criticise them and have your say but PLEASE do not make it into a personal rant. BE LOYAL BE PROUD BE STOKE DAVE I am indeed. One with a different opinion than yours, but I'll assume that's OK with you
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 3, 2012 16:12:28 GMT
I really support Meir KA. The truth is out there. Fooled You all!
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Post by nick_stoke on Sept 3, 2012 16:17:33 GMT
Oh I don't know.. Being considered premier league mainstay's by almost everyone? An FA Cup Final? A good run in Europe? If you still think we are playing the same football to what we were in our opening prem season you are watching a different team to me. The fact of the matter is, that a few years ago anything less than getting destroyed by teams like arsenal was a god send, to now, where people expect us to win. We are a team which is evolving, just at a slower pace than peoples expectations. I suppose if you think getting pasted by Bolton away and Newcastle at home, being the lowest goal scorers in any of the professional divisions in England, coupled with our worst finish in the league evolving then fair enough. The football hasn't changed, just the personnel. And to use that sweeping statement that almost 'Everyone' considers us a Premier League mainstay, is quite frankly ridiculous. H I think it's interesting you pick all the shit stats and none of the good. You point out the Bolton away result but overlook us beating them 5-0 at Wembley and us holding the record for most comprehensive win there. This is pure confirmation bias and is clear evidence of the kind of pessimistic attitude that can warp perceptions of a team and a manager. You want to deny how lucky we are to be Stoke fans right now, how much better a side we have since we got in the prem, go for it. It is pointless arguing with someone with that kind of mentality and if you think people who get together and moan can't influence other people, you are the one who's being ridiculous.
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Post by billybigballs on Sept 3, 2012 16:27:26 GMT
Oh I don't know.. Being considered premier league mainstay's by almost everyone? An FA Cup Final? A good run in Europe? If you still think we are playing the same football to what we were in our opening prem season you are watching a different team to me. The fact of the matter is, that a few years ago anything less than getting destroyed by teams like arsenal was a god send, to now, where people expect us to win. We are a team which is evolving, just at a slower pace than peoples expectations. I suppose if you think getting pasted by Bolton away and Newcastle at home, being the lowest goal scorers in any of the professional divisions in England, coupled with our worst finish in the league evolving then fair enough. The football hasn't changed, just the personnel. And to use that sweeping statement that almost 'Everyone' considers us a Premier League mainstay, is quite frankly ridiculous. H but we are a premier league mainstay, unless you think it takes longer than five years of never been in any threat of relegation. So it doesnt really matter what anyone considers us to be, you cannot hide the truth, can you except it or you will you find something else to use to put the club down?
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 3, 2012 16:35:19 GMT
Love em or hate em,Managers and Owners come and go,the Club will always be. I love the club,not who Owns it or Manages it. This is the reality of supporting a club . Also the only ones who can actually kill a club for good are the owners and mangers, so they need keeping a close eye upon not blind support . The club is the fans and no one else , so fans have a right to any opinion they want around owners and managers .
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Post by stockportstokie on Sept 3, 2012 16:36:19 GMT
This lack of ambition from supporters really is astonishing People are content to just survive, sad really.
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Post by lagwafis on Sept 3, 2012 16:41:25 GMT
The danger is, when these people get enough of a voice and influence that it bleeds into the real world. Evidence of this happening on Saturday. The season we turn on the manager and hound him out, is the season we get relegated. This is both inevitable and a certainty. Sad really. Worryingly this board will probably be the start of that process. I hope these people are happy when they get their wish. I wouldn't go as far to call it inevitable and a certainty. Look at teams around us who've done the same and still stayed up. Sunderland went through Sbragia, Bruce and O'Neill. Fulham have had Tigana, Coleman, Sanchez, Hodgson, Hughes and Jol. Wigan have been through Jewell, Hutchings, Bruce and Martinez. West Brom with Di Matteo, Hodgson and Clarke. Personally I'd rather Pulis get us back to the level we were playing at in the second half of 2010/11 and maintain it, I'm happy with that - the football was good and we were scoring goals. The Charlton / Curbishley example gets thrown up a lot about them going down when they got rid but it's countered by plenty of other examples of teams changing it around and doing just fine. We've got a good infastructure and shouldn't live in fear of change (if and when it's called for)
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 3, 2012 16:42:32 GMT
This lack of ambition from supporters really is astonishing People are content to just survive, sad really. The ONLY ambition that some 'supporters' (I used capitals and inverted commas to give it more import and make it fact) have is to get rid of the manager. Everything else in their petty little lives is just sideshow to this fact.
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Post by werrington on Sept 3, 2012 16:42:43 GMT
Attack, Attack, Attack Attack Attack is all I have to say in response to the opening post. There are lots and lots of supporters who have stood on the grass bank at Wigan, the roof top at Macc (to watch us play Chester City) and all manner of other shitty clubs over the years who are deeply concerned by the last 12 months at Stoke City. In complete reverse of your opening post, YOU ARE NOT REALLY A STOKE FAN if you all you want to do is happy clap your way to mid-table obscurity or worse courtesy of the most mind numbingly boring and negative approach, especially away from home, known to football supporters. A superb post dave
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Post by alexthestokie08 on Sept 3, 2012 17:32:28 GMT
genuinely think i could come up with better tactis than pulis and actually find the best 11 without changing the team every single match. he needs sort his head out with his tactis and subs especially!
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 3, 2012 17:36:49 GMT
I am a stoke city support, I'm not however a happy clapper. Hope this helps.
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Post by RAF on Sept 3, 2012 18:14:51 GMT
I suppose if you think getting pasted by Bolton away and Newcastle at home, being the lowest goal scorers in any of the professional divisions in England, coupled with our worst finish in the league evolving then fair enough. The football hasn't changed, just the personnel. And to use that sweeping statement that almost 'Everyone' considers us a Premier League mainstay, is quite frankly ridiculous. H I think it's interesting you pick all the shit stats and none of the good. You point out the Bolton away result but overlook us beating them 5-0 at Wembley and us holding the record for most comprehensive win there. This is pure confirmation bias and is clear evidence of the kind of pessimistic attitude that can warp perceptions of a team and a manager. You want to deny how lucky we are to be Stoke fans right now, how much better a side we have since we got in the prem, go for it. It is pointless arguing with someone with that kind of mentality and if you think people who get together and moan can't influence other people, you are the one who's being ridiculous. And you cherry picked a few of the best results we have had. Don't talk to me about bias with that myopic stance you have. I don't want to deny anything, but the results happened last season, which if you are comparing it to our win 2 years ago over Bolton then that is clear evidence of regression. We've had some good times and some crap times in the prem , but at the moment the way we play is turgid pap. I'm hoping we can turn it around, but that is down to one man, who rarely changes his way of playing. If people actually get influenced by what others think about their football club and especially on a forum they are very weak minded. H
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