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Post by werrington on Jun 2, 2012 10:15:40 GMT
You lot are feckin mad,Rodriguez has just gone for 7 million with no prem experiecnce. Caroll went for 35 million ,prem prices for strikers are rising.They are the most sought after commodity ,every manager will think they can light Kenwynes fire. Kenwyn is no better or worse than when he was at Sunderland and still similarly values with years left in him.. Start at 10 million and accept what we paid around 8million. That isn't how it works. Rodriguez has gone for silly money but his stock is high. KJ's stock has fallen - he's lost his place and rarely gets a look in. Who in their right mind is going to offer what we paid for a lower mid table reserve player? Using the Rodriguez scenario Rob then Shawcross must be worth £30m if he is a yardstick? |
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Post by lordb on Jun 2, 2012 10:29:21 GMT
He will haunt us if and when he goes and has quite a few years to do it personally I think he has been very very shabbily treated . You're on medication right? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2012 10:39:01 GMT
That isn't how it works. Rodriguez has gone for silly money but his stock is high. KJ's stock has fallen - he's lost his place and rarely gets a look in. Who in their right mind is going to offer what we paid for a lower mid table reserve player? Using the Rodriguez scenario Rob then Shawcross must be worth £30m if he is a yardstick? It's a panic buy rather than a true reflection of the market IMO Wezza. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2012 10:41:21 GMT
He will haunt us if and when he goes and has quite a few years to do it personally I think he has been very very shabbily treated . You're on medication right? Bit harsh - at the very least he was unlucky to lose his place at the start of the season. He did't do enough to win his place back and we're right to cash in if possible but he finished the previous season on a high, scored a few at the start of this season and in return found himself a virtual afterthought. |
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Post by werrington on Jun 2, 2012 10:44:12 GMT
Using the Rodriguez scenario Rob then Shawcross must be worth £30m if he is a yardstick? It's a panic buy rather than a true reflection of the market IMO Wezza. TBF to Southampton they have moved early so i dont think it is a panic buy mate? I do agree it is a hell of a lot of money for unproven potential but he looks like a signing they wanted to get and moved quickly? Moving on slightly the worrying concern for me is that all three promoted clubs are from the south and will be a better proposition and a bigger pull than S-O-T for potential purchases? |
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Post by werrington on Jun 2, 2012 10:48:40 GMT
He will haunt us if and when he goes and has quite a few years to do it personally I think he has been very very shabbily treated . You're on medication right? KWJ was no different last season than he was the season before? The only difference was that once the manager brought in Crouch many on here jumped onboard the managers boat ( as usual ) and started to question KWJ to justify the managers decision? KWJ and Fuller has been our best partnership since promotion. I,m not knocking Crouch as he is fantastic but cmon KWJ has all of a sudden been very harshly treated both by the manager and on here with their views on him? |
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Post by slother on Jun 2, 2012 11:11:06 GMT
I agree with you to an extent, Werrington. I would say that our #1 strike force has to include Crouch, but I don't have a problem with KJ's talent or application at all.
KJ would be my favourite striker to have a gilt-edged chance to fall to, but with our creativity problems we don't get too many of those. I would sooner improve the potency of our midfield than lose Jones.
This is especially true given that we paid a lot for him and he still has a number of years in the tank. We should be looking to cash in on Walters if anyone, given that we could probably turn a profit on him. But y'know, pigs might fly n all that.
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Post by werrington on Jun 2, 2012 11:20:10 GMT
I agree with you to an extent, Werrington. I would say that our #1 strike force has to include Crouch, but I don't have a problem with KJ's talent or application at all. KJ would be my favourite striker to have a gilt-edged chance to fall to, but with our creativity problems we don't get too many of those. I would sooner improve the potency of our midfield than lose Jones. This is especially true given that we paid a lot for him and he still has a number of years in the tank. We should be looking to cash in on Walters if anyone, given that we could probably turn a profit on him. But y'know, pigs might fly n all that. My post wasn,t knocking Crouch mate and he is only not in my best front 2 combination because he had Walters playing alongside him and i was talking about pairings and not individuals I just dont get the vitriol and all of a sudden questioning of KWJ because in my opinion he is the same player as he has always been. |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jun 2, 2012 13:00:05 GMT
Where has this story come from ?
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:04:41 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2012 13:15:37 GMT
It's a panic buy rather than a true reflection of the market IMO Wezza. TBF to Southampton they have moved early so i dont think it is a panic buy mate? I do agree it is a hell of a lot of money for unproven potential but he looks like a signing they wanted to get and moved quickly? Moving on slightly the worrying concern for me is that all three promoted clubs are from the south and will be a better proposition and a bigger pull than S-O-T for potential purchases? I doubt that to be honest mate. They'll still be seen as relegation candidates more than us and won't necessarily be paying silly wages. Rodriguez is (for some reason) hot property and IMO they've moved quickly and paid silly money to get him snapped up before anyone else. Might be wrong but that's just how it seems to me. |
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Post by ichabodcheesecake on Jun 2, 2012 13:15:44 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable. So a price tag that someone has randomly plucked out of the air shows how clueless our manager is does it? |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:20:21 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable. So a price tag that someone has randomly plucked out of the air shows how clueless our manager is does it? Prepared to bet you that we will lose money, on yet another player. Will give you 10-1 that we don't get £8m ??? |
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Post by slother on Jun 2, 2012 13:25:30 GMT
Where has this story come from ? Just a twitter rumour I heard. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 2, 2012 13:31:15 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable. Scoring goals to help us get to an FA cup final and do well in the league isn't enough for you? I think if it was that we lost 3mil the above would be worth it to me, although I think hes worth a lot more than 5mil. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:35:36 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable. Scoring goals to help us get to an FA cup final and do well in the league isn't enough for you? Never said I didn't like him. I actually do and would not sell him for £5m. Unfortunately, we'll not get what we paid for him. Ok? Football is a business and we need to make money on the resale value of players. Pulis falls short on this, along with other aspects management... |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 2, 2012 13:38:50 GMT
Scoring goals to help us get to an FA cup final and do well in the league isn't enough for you? Never said I didn't like him. I actually do and would not sell him for £5m. Unfortunately, we'll not get what we paid for him. Ok? I was on about your losing 3mil comment being wholly unacceptable, okay? I understand that, but reserve players (and thats what he has become unfortunately) rarely go for what was originally paid or more unless they came up from the youth team, I think hes still worth what we paid but I cant see that theres a chance of that happening. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:42:38 GMT
Never said I didn't like him. I actually do and would not sell him for £5m. Unfortunately, we'll not get what we paid for him. Ok? I was on about your losing 3mil comment being wholly unacceptable, okay? If you think losing £3m is an acceptable amount to lose on a young player, that's fine. Personally, I don't. P.S Don't go into business  |
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 2, 2012 13:43:21 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable. Why? Players get older and in 99% of cases lose value over time. Kenwyne isn't a 'kiddie' anymore he's 28 in October. You don't see players at his age often go up in value. Kenwyne hasn't become the player we though he could. But then what manager has ever got out of Kewnyne what we all think could be there. I think you're making a nonsense statement and we don't even know if 5 million is what he'll go for yet. And don't patronise people, boskamp was making a perfectly valid/logical point. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:45:05 GMT
Never said I didn't like him. I actually do and would not sell him for £5m. Unfortunately, we'll not get what we paid for him. Ok? I was on about your losing 3mil comment being wholly unacceptable, okay? I understand that, but reserve players (and thats what he has become unfortunately) rarely go for what was originally paid or more unless they came up from the youth team, I think hes still worth what we paid but I cant see that theres a chance of that happening. That's another thing...reserve players (inc Palacios) on our bench that cost £8m. Bloody ridiculous when you think about it |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:48:00 GMT
The £5m price tag just proves how clueless TP is when buying the majority of new players. The money that we could potentially lose (£3m) is wholly unacceptable. Why? Players get older and in 99% of cases lose value over time. Kenwyne isn't a 'kiddie' anymore he's 27 now. You don't see players at his age often go up in value. Kenwyne hasn't become the player we though he could. But then what manager has ever got out of Kewnyne what we all think could be there. I think you're making a nonsense statement and we don't even know if 5 million is what he'll go for yet. And don't patronise people, boskamp was making a perfectly valid/logical point. and so was I... By the way a 27 year old striker should be a the peak of his career. Trying not to be patronising ;D |
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 2, 2012 13:48:29 GMT
I was on about your losing 3mil comment being wholly unacceptable, okay? I understand that, but reserve players (and thats what he has become unfortunately) rarely go for what was originally paid or more unless they came up from the youth team, I think hes still worth what we paid but I cant see that theres a chance of that happening. That's another thing...reserve players (inc Palacios) on our bench that cost £8m. Bloody ridiculous when you think about it He hasn't been fit this season, perhaps he'll show his worth next season or do you want to write him off now? |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 13:54:30 GMT
That's another thing...reserve players (inc Palacios) on our bench that cost £8m. Bloody ridiculous when you think about it He hasn't been fit this season, perhaps he'll show his worth next season or do you want to write him off now? Again, if you think it's acceptable for Stoke to pay £8m for a player who is injured / unfit and to sit on the bench, that's fine. It's fine for top clubs to take a gamble but not us. Hope to god he comes good but look at other players in our league and what they have cost |
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 2, 2012 14:02:31 GMT
Why? Players get older and in 99% of cases lose value over time. Kenwyne isn't a 'kiddie' anymore he's 27 now. You don't see players at his age often go up in value. Kenwyne hasn't become the player we though he could. But then what manager has ever got out of Kewnyne what we all think could be there. I think you're making a nonsense statement and we don't even know if 5 million is what he'll go for yet. And don't patronise people, boskamp was making a perfectly valid/logical point. and so was I... By the way a 27 year old striker should be a the peak of his career. Trying not to be patronising ;D And anyone signing him now on a 4 year contract knows he'll be 31/32 when his contract expires. So they're not going to pay top dollar are they? We bought him at his peak value in his career. If you want to make money on a player you have to buy younger than Kenwyne was when we bought him |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 14:14:38 GMT
and so was I... By the way a 27 year old striker should be a the peak of his career. Trying not to be patronising ;D And anyone signing him now on a 4 year contract knows he'll be 31/32 when his contract expires. So they're not going to pay top dollar are they? We bought him at his peak value in his career. If you want to make money on a player you have to buy younger than Kenwyne was when we bought him No, only fool would pay top dollar for a striker at the end of their career. Game, set and match. |
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 2, 2012 14:28:02 GMT
And anyone signing him now on a 4 year contract knows he'll be 31/32 when his contract expires. So they're not going to pay top dollar are they? We bought him at his peak value in his career. If you want to make money on a player you have to buy younger than Kenwyne was when we bought him No, only fool would pay top dollar for a striker at the end of their career. Game, set and match. Depends on whether you've got a sugar daddy willing to bank roll it really. I'd say the player you're referring to has shown his worth this season anyway, and no doubt will do again in the coming season. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 14:34:35 GMT
No, only fool would pay top dollar for a striker at the end of their career. Game, set and match. Depends on whether you've got a sugar daddy willing to bank roll it really. I'd say the player you're referring to has shown his worth this season anyway, and no doubt will do again in the coming season. My point is that Pulis is shocking when it comes to making money on players and wastes an incredible amount of money. In my view, this is not the way a club like Stoke should be managed. You quite obviously have a different opinion to me, which is fine. |
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Post by stokeramblers on Jun 2, 2012 14:46:00 GMT
Depends on whether you've got a sugar daddy willing to bank roll it really. I'd say the player you're referring to has shown his worth this season anyway, and no doubt will do again in the coming season. My point is that Pulis is shocking when it comes to making money on players and wastes an incredible amount of money. In my view, this is not the way a club like Stoke should be managed. You quite obviously have a different opinion to me, which is fine. My quibble was that you think Kenwyne should've increased in value during his time here. No chance, and it's not through Pulis' or Kenwyne's fault particularly just old father time. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 14:55:38 GMT
My point is that Pulis is shocking when it comes to making money on players and wastes an incredible amount of money. In my view, this is not the way a club like Stoke should be managed. You quite obviously have a different opinion to me, which is fine. My quibble was that you think Kenwyne should've increased in value during his time here. No chance, and it's not through Pulis' or Kenwyne's fault particularly just old father time. Not just KJ though is it? My point is that we lose too much money on players and I thought I had clarified that in my previous posts. This is entirely TP's fault, nobody else. A club like Stoke quite simply cannot afford to continue to do business this way. I believe that PC now has the same opinion. |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 2, 2012 15:33:00 GMT
My quibble was that you think Kenwyne should've increased in value during his time here. No chance, and it's not through Pulis' or Kenwyne's fault particularly just old father time. Not just KJ though is it? My point is that we lose too much money on players and I thought I had clarified that in my previous posts. This is entirely TP's fault, nobody else. A club like Stoke quite simply cannot afford to continue to do business this way. I believe that PC now has the same opinion. Does anyone else agree? |
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'I knew a woman once but she died soon afterwards'
