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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 21:45:49 GMT
What are you basing the assertion that I can't let him go on when for the past two seasons I've been saying he needs to start being phased out but still has something to offer? Not replacing Tuncay was the biggest mistake. But you had him down as this world class saviour when he was a good but inconsistent squad player who didn't really fit into how we play. You say 'good spells or not' and bang on about the five months thing but you were denying the good spell ever existed before. That's my point. No I had him down as a player who could excite, create something out of nothing and give the fans their moneys worth of entertainment. Goes without saying he put in some brilliant individual performances. I said to you at the time. Give him the same amount of league games (around 150) as Fuller...I will tell you now...his goal return and his all round impact at the club would have been very similar. No you're just going back to making things up Rob. I agreed that we had a good spell. He wasnt responsible for this good spell...thats my point. You said that the good spell had nothing to do with him.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 12, 2012 21:47:35 GMT
Sorry Rossi...Tuncay was wank!
The only thing I agree on is that having him on the bench for the cup final would have been better than having Pugh and Carew to bring on.
The mistake with letting Tunny go was not replacing him. Apart from that, he was toss and rarely offered anything other than an odd glimpse of what he could do.
He was a show pony and if he can't get in that wank team at Bolton, he never had a chance here.
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Post by PolPotter on Mar 12, 2012 21:49:53 GMT
He's a really frustrating player to watch. In fact, he is crap. Fuller could have found a place ahead of Jones if it hadn't been for him acting like a complete lunatic!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 21:51:10 GMT
I'm not too fussed if he moves on as long as he's replaced with someone as good or better, especially if he actually gets a game. I'm just capable of seeing that he offers more than your black and white vision allows you to see when it comes to football. Yeah, Jones led the line against Valencia despite those misses. E caused them problems, created space, won plenty in the air, held the ball up well. Misses were a shame but Crouch would never have the run to receive Palacios' pass in the first place. You have absolutely no idea how Crouch would have played in Valencia. Especially considering how well our midfield played. For all you know he could have scored a hatrick. Both Fuller and Jones were pretty poor in Valencia. Our 2 midfielders and Jerome were fantastic. You are Joking right?????? Jones had a cracking game in Valencia, I take it you just saw the highlights and decided from that he was crap.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 21:52:44 GMT
Sorry Rossi...Tuncay was wank! The only thing I agree on is that having him on the bench for the cup final would have been better than having Pugh and Carew to bring on. The mistake with letting Tunny go was not replacing him. Apart from that, he was toss and rarely offered anything other than an odd glimpse of what he could do. He was a show pony and if he can't get in that wank team at Bolton, he never had a chance here. His career is coming to a pretty crap end. He may not be good enough for Bolton but he was good enough for a Turkish international team that reached the semi-finals of Euro 2008. He was a stand out player for Boro in their mid-table finish...and their stand out player when they got relegated (think he finished top scorer). Pulis didnt let Tuncay show what he was capable of. We all know he was reluctant to play him from day one. He was a show pony because he wanted to impress in the few opportunities he had. Never in his Stoke career did he have a settled place in the side. Unlike every other striker we have had since promotion. Jones was nailed on to start week in week out last season despite many shite performances.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 21:54:54 GMT
You have absolutely no idea how Crouch would have played in Valencia. Especially considering how well our midfield played. For all you know he could have scored a hatrick. Both Fuller and Jones were pretty poor in Valencia. Our 2 midfielders and Jerome were fantastic. You are Joking right?????? Jones had a cracking game in Valencia, I take it you just saw the highlights and decided from that he was crap. ;D Ironic you say that because I was actually at the Mestalla !
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 21:56:41 GMT
No I had him down as a player who could excite, create something out of nothing and give the fans their moneys worth of entertainment. Goes without saying he put in some brilliant individual performances. I said to you at the time. Give him the same amount of league games (around 150) as Fuller...I will tell you now...his goal return and his all round impact at the club would have been very similar. No you're just going back to making things up Rob. I agreed that we had a good spell. He wasnt responsible for this good spell...thats my point. You said that the good spell had nothing to do with him. Are you playing on words or what tonight? " He wasnt responsible for this good spell...thats my point".[b][/b]
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 21:58:18 GMT
You said that the good spell had nothing to do with him. Are you playing on words or what tonight? " He wasnt responsible for this good spell...thats my point".[b] [/b][/quote] You said that the good run was nothing to do with Jones and that it was down purely to the wingers and Walters. Go back and have a look.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 22:00:21 GMT
You are Joking right?????? Jones had a cracking game in Valencia, I take it you just saw the highlights and decided from that he was crap. ;D Ironic you say that because I was actually at the Mestalla ! Then I don't see how you can say he had a bad game, are you sure you were facing the right way?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 12, 2012 22:00:26 GMT
KJ was dropped twice last season, both times for Carew.
He was hardly untouchable like Walters seems to be.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:02:00 GMT
Are you playing on words or what tonight? " He wasnt responsible for this good spell...thats my point".[b] [/b][/quote] You said that the good run was nothing to do with Jones and that it was down purely to the wingers and Walters. Go back and have a look.[/quote] Rob what are you on about? I said that...and I am reiterating that. I havent changed my mind at all. Our good end to last season wasnt because of Jones. It was primarily a result of our two wingers and an in form Walters.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:03:21 GMT
KJ was dropped twice last season, both times for Carew. He was hardly untouchable like Walters seems to be. I agree re Walters. That situation is a bit ridiculous. TP is making Walters an ineffective player through completely overplaying him. He should have been dropped for an in form Jerome months ago.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:04:54 GMT
;D Ironic you say that because I was actually at the Mestalla ! Then I don't see how you can say he had a bad game, are you sure you were facing the right way? I genuinly cant believe this. The guy could and should have sent us through missing a header from 3 yards and a one on one...and you're telling me i should be praising him...am I missing something??? Whats even more weird is the fact that those around me were also commenting on how Jones is an absolute waste of money.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 22:06:46 GMT
Then I don't see how you can say he had a bad game, are you sure you were facing the right way? I genuinly cant believe this. The guy could and should have sent us through missing a header from 3 yards and a one on one...and you're telling me i should be praising him...am I missing something??? Whats even more weird is the fact that those around me were also commenting on how Jones is an absolute waste of money. He led the line well overall though. Despite the missed chances. You don't judge a performance on ten seconds.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 22:07:43 GMT
You said that the good run was nothing to do with Jones and that it was down purely to the wingers and Walters. Go back and have a look. Rob what are you on about? I said that...and I am reiterating that. I havent changed my mind at all. Our good end to last season wasnt because of Jones. It was primarily a result of our two wingers and an in form Walters. I never said it was because of Jones. I said he played an important part. You suggested he had nothing to do with it.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 22:07:59 GMT
Then I don't see how you can say he had a bad game, are you sure you were facing the right way? I genuinly cant believe this. The guy could and should have sent us through missing a header from 3 yards and a one on one...am I missing something??? Whats even more weird is the fact that those around me were also commenting on how Jones is an absolute waste of money. Yes he should have scored, but that wasn't all he did for 90mins, overall he had a good game imo, I also think with the way we play that Jones is better suited than Crouch but neither are ideal.
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 12, 2012 22:09:42 GMT
I love the line that people like Rob espouse,'Yes Crouch is a better footballer but...'
.So Crouch is a better footballer then.Isn't that the point?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:12:32 GMT
I love the line that people like Rob espouse,'Yes Crouch is a better footballer but...' .So Crouch is a better footballer then.Isn't that the point? Apparently not at Stoke.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 22:14:15 GMT
I love the line that people like Rob espouse,'Yes Crouch is a better footballer but...' .So Crouch is a better footballer then.Isn't that the point? No. Tuncay is a better footballer than Walters. Walters is a much better fit for how we play. So was Sidibe. It isn't just a matter of taking a good player and chucking him on the pitch. We could all be managers if it was.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 22:14:39 GMT
I love the line that people like Rob espouse,'Yes Crouch is a better footballer but...' .So Crouch is a better footballer then.Isn't that the point? He is a better footballer, with the ball at his feet he's got great skill, but that doesn't mean he suits the way we play.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 22:18:47 GMT
I think Ive got it, you didn't by any chance partake in this kind of activity while you were in Valencia did you
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Post by joinerssquire on Mar 12, 2012 22:25:56 GMT
I love the line that people like Rob espouse,'Yes Crouch is a better footballer but...' .So Crouch is a better footballer then.Isn't that the point? He is a better footballer, with the ball at his feet he's got great skill, but that doesn't mean he suits the way we play. Completely agree with what you are saying about Crouch being better with the ball at his feet but does that make him a better footballer? There's more to being a footballer than that. Is he quicker - no. Is he stronger - no. Does he have a better shot on him - ?? Is he better in the air - no. For me if you were to list all the attribute we want from a centre forward I reckon an in form Kenwynne offers more than Crouch does and is a better fit for the way we play.
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 12, 2012 22:31:11 GMT
scfcbiancorossi, you dislike Jones so much you refuse to see anything positive he offers Stoke. I've sat next to supporters like you who actually enjoy watching Jones make a mistake just to suit their agenda yet refuse to acknowledge anything good he does.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:44:45 GMT
I think Ive got it, you didn't by any chance partake in this kind of activity while you were in Valencia did you Nope. Just a couple of san miguels Im genuinly staggered that you think Jones played well in Valencia.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:46:59 GMT
I love the line that people like Rob espouse,'Yes Crouch is a better footballer but...' .So Crouch is a better footballer then.Isn't that the point? No. Tuncay is a better footballer than Walters. Walters is a much better fit for how we play. So was Sidibe. It isn't just a matter of taking a good player and chucking him on the pitch. We could all be managers if it was. You're right...it is like that at Stoke..but it shouldnt be like that. We are about the only team in the league where being a good footballer means nothing. Its all about working aard and lumping up to the big man ;D
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 12, 2012 22:47:30 GMT
Rob why cant you accept that some things are just the way they are. You are talking up a player who clearly isnt what you are suggesting. The old "you're blinkered, credit where its due" etc is a little hysterical. Of recent times I agree with 90% if your conclusions...but you're Rory arguments (finally you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with that one), your consistant hating on the Turk And you're undeniable respect for Kenwyne Jones (who really isnt all that), I just cant agree with. I repeat, and I will continue to repeat...where was Kenwyne Jones when we were fucking pants for 5 months from November through till the end of March last season? Our success in the FA Cup hides a lot of cracks that were unquestionable prior to that run (I'm taking nothing away from our cup final achievment which was fantastic). Why you are ignoring these pretty crucial 5 months I cant understand. Do you have an agenda on this one by any chance my man ? p.s are you genuinly saying that Kenwyne Jones has "mobility"? ;D I'm ignoring them in this case because you were, in talking about our good run from March to May. I was responding to you suggesting our good run last season had nothing whatsoever to do with him, which is horseshit however you slice it. Jones is far more mobile than Crouch, and makes runs that Crouch would never make. He's nowhere near as good a footballer, but yes, he's pretty mobile. He takes defenders with him and creates space, which is important for his strike partner and the wingers, and the lack of a player up top to do that this season has been a reason why the wingers and Walters have struggled and we haven't scored as many in my opinion.I'm really beginning to wonder how long it's going to take for the penny to start dropping here. Some of us were suggesting this would happen before Crouch even signed and here we are nearly a whole season after the event and Walters, Pennant and Matty have been out of form ALL season. All THREE of them, for some unknown and quite inexplicapable reason have all become garbage at EXACTLY the same time and have all CONTINUED to do so and still quite inexplicably for months and months on end ... Lord knows what's going on.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 22:50:04 GMT
I'm ignoring them in this case because you were, in talking about our good run from March to May. I was responding to you suggesting our good run last season had nothing whatsoever to do with him, which is horseshit however you slice it. Jones is far more mobile than Crouch, and makes runs that Crouch would never make. He's nowhere near as good a footballer, but yes, he's pretty mobile. He takes defenders with him and creates space, which is important for his strike partner and the wingers, and the lack of a player up top to do that this season has been a reason why the wingers and Walters have struggled and we haven't scored as many in my opinion.I'm really beginning to wonder how long it's going to take for the penny to start dropping here. Some of us were suggesting this would happen before Crouch even signed and here we are nearly a whole season after the event and Walters, Pennant and Matty have been out of form ALL season. All THREE of them, for some unknown and quite inexplicapable reason have all become garbage at EXACTLY the same time and have all CONTINUED to do so and still quite inexplicably for months and months on end ... Lord knows what's going on. ha! Yeah you're right...its all because Jones isnt playing. He makes the difference. Has it occured to you that the 2 wingers havent been playing together all season...and that Walters has been completely overplayed?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 22:52:07 GMT
No. Tuncay is a better footballer than Walters. Walters is a much better fit for how we play. So was Sidibe. It isn't just a matter of taking a good player and chucking him on the pitch. We could all be managers if it was. You're right...it is like that at Stoke..but it shouldnt be like that. We are about the only team in the league where being a good footballer means nothing. Its all about working aard and lumping up to the big man ;D It's not just Stoke. Plenty of teams have signed players they can't find a space for.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 22:55:10 GMT
I'm really beginning to wonder how long it's going to take for the penny to start dropping here. Some of us were suggesting this would happen before Crouch even signed and here we are nearly a whole season after the event and Walters, Pennant and Matty have been out of form ALL season. All THREE of them, for some unknown and quite inexplicapable reason have all become garbage at EXACTLY the same time and have all CONTINUED to do so and still quite inexplicably for months and months on end ... Lord knows what's going on. ha! Yeah you're right...its all because Jones isnt playing. He makes the difference. Has it occured to you that the 2 wingers havent been playing together all season...and that Walters has been completely overplayed? The two wingers didn't play together all last season and that didn't stop them being influential when they did play. It's not necessarily Jones himself but the presence of some mobility up top. But Jones is more mobile than Crouch and not everyone is as quick to write off that impact as you are Nick.
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 12, 2012 22:58:09 GMT
You're right...it is like that at Stoke..but it shouldnt be like that. We are about the only team in the league where being a good footballer means nothing. Its all about working aard and lumping up to the big man ;D It's not just Stoke. Plenty of teams have signed players they can't find a space for. Maybe Crouch is out of this world
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