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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 12, 2012 23:01:15 GMT
I'm really beginning to wonder how long it's going to take for the penny to start dropping here. Some of us were suggesting this would happen before Crouch even signed and here we are nearly a whole season after the event and Walters, Pennant and Matty have been out of form ALL season. All THREE of them, for some unknown and quite inexplicapable reason have all become garbage at EXACTLY the same time and have all CONTINUED to do so and still quite inexplicably for months and months on end ... Lord knows what's going on. ha! Yeah you're right...its all because Jones isnt playing. He makes the difference. Has it occured to you that the 2 wingers havent been playing together all season...and that Walters has been completely overplayed? It's more to do with Crouch (specifically) replacing Jones, rather than Jones not being in the team. Trust me, we'll still be having these discussions next season unless Tone starts playing 4-4-2 and/or he starts releasing players from the cage - you CANNOT play (successful) long ball 4-4-1-1 football without pace and movement from your man leading the line.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Mar 12, 2012 23:10:13 GMT
One of the arguments being made here is that Kenwyne was wank during the winter months of last season.
Isnt that the period where we played the laughable combination of Jones and Carew? It gave immobility a whole new dimension.
Instead of learning the lesson and investing in a quality partner for Kenwyne we (Tone) went and blew another fortune on another giant centre forward.
Weird (stupid).
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 12, 2012 23:25:04 GMT
Whatever way you spin it, for a team with our finances and particular needs, shelling out £8m on a player to play a very specific role in the team, then paying £10m on an apparent upgrade for that niche role only 12 months later does seem a bit, well, nuts.
Especially when the upgrade doesn't really tick any boxes with regard to the kind of players that have traditionally made a Pulis team tick in that specific role, and he clearly accepts they can't feature on the pitch at the same time.
He had it right in January when he apparently intended making the marquee striker signing a complementary Ba type. Then did a 180 degree turn only 6 months on. It is pretty unfathomable.
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 12, 2012 23:41:57 GMT
Whatever way you spin it, for a team with our finances and particular needs, shelling out £8m on a player to play a very specific role in the team, then paying £10m on an apparent upgrade for that niche role only 12 months later does seem a bit, well, nuts. Especially when the upgrade doesn't really tick any boxes with regard to the kind of players that have traditionally made a Pulis team tick in that specific role, and he clearly accepts they can't feature on the pitch at the same time. He had it right in January when he apparently intended making the marquee striker signing a complementary Ba type. Then did a 180 degree turn only 6 months on. It is pretty unfathomable. The twist was a bit remarkable. All those noises in January about signing younger talent for the future, possibly from that weird Europe place, and then he went and signed a 31 year old English target man who is arguably not as useful in our system as the existing target man. I guess that he found out that Crouch was available and decided that he was too good to miss out on. I think it's a poor signing, partly because we haven't performed as well with Crouch in the team, partly because he doesn't seem to be gelling and partly because it's seen our previous record signing completely marginalised and possibly on the verge of a cut price move away.
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Post by philb on Mar 12, 2012 23:42:20 GMT
Jones = good in the air, shite on the ground. Crouch = good in the air, good on the ground.
Upgrade complete.............
;D ;D ;D
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 23:43:53 GMT
Whatever way you spin it, for a team with our finances and particular needs, shelling out £8m on a player to play a very specific role in the team, then paying £10m on an apparent upgrade for that niche role only 12 months later does seem a bit, well, nuts. Especially when the upgrade doesn't really tick any boxes with regard to the kind of players that have traditionally made a Pulis team tick in that specific role, and he clearly accepts they can't feature on the pitch at the same time. He had it right in January when he apparently intended making the marquee striker signing a complementary Ba type. Then did a 180 degree turn only 6 months on. It is pretty unfathomable. Spot on, it was strange that it seemed like he was looking for a Fuller replacement to play along side Jones only to go and buy the type of player that we didn't really need (if you take into account Sidibe was back up and would have been workable for another season at the time).
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 23:46:00 GMT
Jones = good in the air, shite on the ground. Can get about the pitch. Crouch = good in the air, good on the ground. Cant run save his life. Upgrade incomplete............. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 23:50:16 GMT
All about opinions of course, but a lot of people seem to be going nuts at the manager re KJ, complaining about him being dropped for much of the season and the prospect of him beind sold... Personally, if there is one massive positive the manager has achieved this season, it is the realisation that Kenwyne Jones is just not good enough at this level. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...i've seen comments that claim Kenwyne was an "unstoppable force" last season. I mean thats ridiculous. We should not forget the 5 months from November through to the end of March when he was absolutely anonymous and put in some of the worst individual performances since our promotion. Crouch is a far better player...and whilst there is a valid argument that Crouch doesnt completely suit our system (evidently a much better player with the ball on the ground), he is undoubtadly a better option and should help us evolve. How do you see him 'helping us evolve' out if interest? By forming a new ''Hanley Globe Trotters Basketball Team'' packed with 6'6'' lanky fuckers...The Taller the better.
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Post by philb on Mar 12, 2012 23:51:09 GMT
Jones = good in the air, shite on the ground. Can get about the pitch. Crouch = good in the air, good on the ground. Cant run save his life. Upgrade incomplete............. ;D ;D ;D When he can be bloody arsed that is!!! :-)
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 12, 2012 23:59:33 GMT
TP always seems to be trying to justify signing Crouch to the media, banging on about how good a pro he is and how well he's been accepted by the lads despite being a superstar.. He comes across as a little in awe of Crouch. Either that or he's trying to justify squishing £10m of Coates's money.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 13, 2012 0:13:04 GMT
When he can be bloody arsed that is!!! :-) Unfortunately.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 0:15:20 GMT
The point about that Jones could have sent us through against Valencia with his missed chances doesn't really do him justice as I believe it was his header which secured the point against Kyiv to allow us to qualify. Anyway Jones, as has been aired to death, is unplayable on his day and when he's up for it - like most players. Crouch has been OK this season, not as effective as I'd have hoped but he certainly has taken some fine goals in a team which is has the one of the worst chance creating records this season, the problem is with players like Jones and Crouch you have to take the good with the bad, they're all going to have games where they're frustrating as hell and then other games where they are class - Neither of them are hard working duracell bunny's but we all knew that when we signed them both.
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Post by philm87 on Mar 13, 2012 0:24:17 GMT
Whatever way you spin it, for a team with our finances and particular needs, shelling out £8m on a player to play a very specific role in the team, then paying £10m on an apparent upgrade for that niche role only 12 months later does seem a bit, well, nuts. Especially when the upgrade doesn't really tick any boxes with regard to the kind of players that have traditionally made a Pulis team tick in that specific role, and he clearly accepts they can't feature on the pitch at the same time. He had it right in January when he apparently intended making the marquee striker signing a complementary Ba type. Then did a 180 degree turn only 6 months on. It is pretty unfathomable. This. The things we could have done with 10 million. Cover for Matty and JP and a proper full-back would have made us a much more complete team.
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Post by potterpaul on Mar 13, 2012 3:31:55 GMT
Unfortuantly, like many (all) of our players, KJ seems to be better at defending than going forward, no matter who we play. I must admit I do like KJ's defending attribute when defending against set pieces.
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Post by stokiefromhaslo on Mar 13, 2012 9:20:37 GMT
Kenwyne will only be at his best with Pennant & Matty on the pitch at the same time!
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Post by lordb on Mar 13, 2012 12:55:05 GMT
imho KJ can go
Fed up of him not getting into the box
Fed up of him not winning headrers against smaller defenders
Fed up of him missing 1 on 1's To counter that when he does get in the box & he gets his head on it he will ususally score
Frustrated with Kenywnne tbh.
He can do what we want him to do but he just (much more often than not) doesn't & IMHO that's nothing to do with anyone else but him.
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Mar 13, 2012 13:16:48 GMT
The second most expensive player in our history and after one season he's out of the side no matter how badly others play.
It went wrong for Jones when we signed Crouch. What happens if we sign a £15 Million pound striker this summer? Will this render Crouch surplus to requirements too? Pulis has obviously done a superb job but his ability to money and choose the right players is a major concern.
Crouch - £12 Million (Done pretty well in the main but he's not quite 'us') Palacios - £8 Million (Looks like we've been sold a duffer) Jones - £8 Million (Was virtually ever-present last season, now sits on the bench) Tuncay - £5 Million (No explanation needed) Kitson - £5 Million (See Crouch but without the 'done quite well' part) Woodgate - Free (Saw his 'name', bought him in and he's been utterly shit. Hefty wages) Gudjohnsen - Free (See Woodgate - Might forgive him on this one though. I was chuffed when he signed)
Huth is probably the only 'big money' signing we've made that's been worth it. Whitehead has never let us down but a five million pound engine is massively expensive.
Pulis is much better when he's shopping around not spending much. Shawcross, Sorensen, Etherington, Pennant, Fuller, Whelan etc all came in for less than £3 Million.
You've then got the likes of Olofinjana, Soares, Tonge, Davies who will have cost the club in excess of £10 Million once they've been paid their wages.
Pulis' record with signings is more hit and miss than you might expect from such a successful manager.
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 13, 2012 13:56:03 GMT
Of course Crouch has been worth it.He's our leading scorer!
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 13, 2012 13:57:13 GMT
imho KJ can go Fed up of him not getting into the box Fed up of him not winning headrers against smaller defenders Fed up of him missing 1 on 1's To counter that when he does get in the box & he gets his head on it he will ususally score Frustrated with Kenywnne tbh. He can do what we want him to do but he just (much more often than not) doesn't & IMHO that's nothing to do with anyone else but him. He's also very very lazy.
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Mar 13, 2012 14:48:40 GMT
Of course Crouch has been worth it.He's our leading scorer! Hardly fucking difficult!
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Post by adi on Mar 14, 2012 0:09:59 GMT
12 goals, no penalties last season would seem to suggest otherwise! KJ was doing just fine until Crouch came along and since then, he hasn't been given a fair crack of the whip. He started the season well too, scoring regularly. When he plays now, he looks totally disillusioned and I can't blame him to be honest. KJ has his faults but we spent an awful lot of money on Crouch and barely improved the team a jot. To spend 18m on two forwards that are not able to play together is pretty shambolic management in my opinion. He scored 9 league goals last season in around...what was it...36/37 appearances, mostly starts. He went 5 months without scoring a goal. Sorry...thats not good enough if your Peter Coates and paying a guy 40 k a week. He was awful on the eye as well. Crouch is a far better FOOTBALLER. We unfortunately, dont have too many of those in our starting XI THANK YOU, Please see this post before wanking furiously into a KJ poster. The lad is lazy, he cannot be arsed and is a mercenary. FACE THE FUCKING FACTS PLEASE
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Post by onionman on Mar 14, 2012 2:24:37 GMT
Whatever way you spin it, for a team with our finances and particular needs, shelling out £8m on a player to play a very specific role in the team, then paying £10m on an apparent upgrade for that niche role only 12 months later does seem a bit, well, nuts. Especially when the upgrade doesn't really tick any boxes with regard to the kind of players that have traditionally made a Pulis team tick in that specific role, and he clearly accepts they can't feature on the pitch at the same time. He had it right in January when he apparently intended making the marquee striker signing a complementary Ba type. Then did a 180 degree turn only 6 months on. It is pretty unfathomable. The twist was a bit remarkable. All those noises in January about signing younger talent for the future, possibly from that weird Europe place, and then he went and signed a 31 year old English target man who is arguably not as useful in our system as the existing target man. I guess that he found out that Crouch was available and decided that he was too good to miss out on. I think it's a poor signing, partly because we haven't performed as well with Crouch in the team, partly because he doesn't seem to be gelling and partly because it's seen our previous record signing completely marginalised and possibly on the verge of a cut price move away. He went mad for a bit when Crouch became available. That's all there is to it, because it was such an irrational move from such a methodological bloke. I still suspect we wouldn't have signed Palacios if it didn't seal the Crouch deal. Now Pulis has got to lie in the bed he's made and make Crouch a success. It's not impossible. We can evolve a little bit with Crouch in our team because he can play football. We just can't evolve with Walters as his strike partner. To succeed, Pulis now either has to drop Crouch or Walters. One is his all-time favourite striker he broke the bank to sign, the other is his comfort blanket who epitomises everything he wants in a player. Tough call for him as he rebuilds the team, but he's brought it on himself.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 8:40:31 GMT
He scored 9 league goals last season in around...what was it...36/37 appearances, mostly starts. He went 5 months without scoring a goal. Sorry...thats not good enough if your Peter Coates and paying a guy 40 k a week. He was awful on the eye as well. Crouch is a far better FOOTBALLER. We unfortunately, dont have too many of those in our starting XI THANK YOU, Please see this post before wanking furiously into a KJ poster. The lad is lazy, he cannot be arsed and is a mercenary. FACE THE FUCKING FACTS PLEASE Yet the team was scoring more goals and creating more chance last season with him in it than we have this season. Go figure.
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Post by manchesterpotter on Mar 14, 2012 9:03:30 GMT
In my opinion, both Crouch and Jones are quality players. However, both are often left hung out to dry by the negative tactics we use - often expected to control a ball hoofed up from the back, then somehow dribble past an entire defence.
Both can score, but rely heavily on service. If we don't get the ball out wide and put decent crosses into the box, then both will struggle. Neither Pennant or Ethers have been on top form this season, so it's quite impressive that Crouch has netted 7 league goals (only 3 less than Jones has scored in his time at the club).
I like both of them a lot, but I've been disappointed with Jones' attitude this season. Yeah, it must piss him off being dropped for Crouch, but surely this should fire him up to go and make the most of any appearances he gets. And he hasn't done that. He's not looked bothered and hasn't done anything to suggest that he deserves a start at the moment. For me that isn't good enough for an 8 million striker that's on 40k a week. If he doesn't change his attitude, then ship him off and bring someone else in.
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