|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 14:41:22 GMT
All about opinions of course, but a lot of people seem to be going nuts at the manager re KJ, complaining about him being dropped for much of the season and the prospect of him beind sold...
Personally, if there is one massive positive the manager has achieved this season, it is the realisation that Kenwyne Jones is just not good enough at this level.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing...i've seen comments that claim Kenwyne was an "unstoppable force" last season. I mean thats ridiculous.
We should not forget the 5 months from November through to the end of March when he was absolutely anonymous and put in some of the worst individual performances since our promotion.
Crouch is a far better player...and whilst there is a valid argument that Crouch doesnt completely suit our system (evidently a much better player with the ball on the ground), he is undoubtadly a better option and should help us evolve.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 14:45:14 GMT
All about opinions of course, but a lot of people seem to be going nuts at the manager re KJ, complaining about him being dropped for much of the season and the prospect of him beind sold... Personally, if there is one massive positive the manager has achieved this season, it is the realisation that Kenwyne Jones is just not good enough at this level. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...i've seen comments that claim Kenwyne was an "unstoppable force" last season. I mean thats ridiculous. We should not forget the 5 months from November through to the end of March when he was absolutely anonymous and put in some of the worst individual performances since our promotion. Crouch is a far better player...and whilst there is a valid argument that Crouch doesnt completely suit our system (evidently a much better player with the ball on the ground), he is undoubtadly a better option and should help us evolve. How do you see him 'helping us evolve' out if interest? |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 12, 2012 14:47:07 GMT
12 goals, no penalties last season would seem to suggest otherwise!
KJ was doing just fine until Crouch came along and since then, he hasn't been given a fair crack of the whip. He started the season well too, scoring regularly.
When he plays now, he looks totally disillusioned and I can't blame him to be honest.
KJ has his faults but we spent an awful lot of money on Crouch and barely improved the team a jot. To spend 18m on two forwards that are not able to play together is pretty shambolic management in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bombus on Mar 12, 2012 14:49:04 GMT
Kenwyne had one of the best headers in the world.
Now he's in a form slump.
Now he never gets to play.
Now his confidence is six feet down below.
Now he's mad.
Now he'll get sold.
|
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 14:50:35 GMT
All about opinions of course, but a lot of people seem to be going nuts at the manager re KJ, complaining about him being dropped for much of the season and the prospect of him beind sold... Personally, if there is one massive positive the manager has achieved this season, it is the realisation that Kenwyne Jones is just not good enough at this level. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...i've seen comments that claim Kenwyne was an "unstoppable force" last season. I mean thats ridiculous. We should not forget the 5 months from November through to the end of March when he was absolutely anonymous and put in some of the worst individual performances since our promotion. Crouch is a far better player...and whilst there is a valid argument that Crouch doesnt completely suit our system (evidently a much better player with the ball on the ground), he is undoubtadly a better option and should help us evolve. How do you see him 'helping us evolve' out if interest? Hes an intelligent player. A player of top 4 calibre whose main strength is his control, comfort on the ball and his ability to be clinical consistantly. I accept we probably havent evolved at all this season, I think we've gone backwards...and Pulis has been totally decieved by Crouch's height...we've become even more direct. But I think with time the presence of Crouch in the team will help us to develop. I dont think we will see any evolution until next season. Our midfield isnt good enough. (If we havent evolved by next season then serious questions need to be aimed at the manager). You cant evolve with a player like Jones. His control is terrible, hes uncomfortable with the ball at his feet...and hes pretty useless in front of goal unless its on a plate for him. I think the sooner TP drops Walters...the more effective Crouch will become. (I like Walters but its not a natural partnership). |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 14:51:57 GMT
12 goals, no penalties last season would seem to suggest otherwise! KJ was doing just fine until Crouch came along and since then, he hasn't been given a fair crack of the whip. He started the season well too, scoring regularly. When he plays now, he looks totally disillusioned and I can't blame him to be honest. KJ has his faults but we spent an awful lot of money on Crouch and barely improved the team a jot. To spend 18m on two forwards that are not able to play together is pretty shambolic management in my opinion. He scored 9 league goals last season in around...what was it...36/37 appearances, mostly starts. He went 5 months without scoring a goal. Sorry...thats not good enough if your Peter Coates and paying a guy 40 k a week. He was awful on the eye as well. Crouch is a far better FOOTBALLER. We unfortunately, dont have too many of those in our starting XI  |
|
|
|
Post by upthefud on Mar 12, 2012 14:52:27 GMT
Crouch a player of top 4 quality?
Please tell me you are joking!
|
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 14:54:12 GMT
Crouch a player of top 4 quality? Please tell me you are joking! Did you just dissappear off the face of the earth when he became second top scorer in the champions league with Liverpool, and scored the goal that sent Spurs into the champions league (whilst subsequently banging in about 7 champions league goals for them, including one against AC Milan?) What do you expect him to do...dribble round 7 players? |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 12, 2012 14:59:57 GMT
How many league goals has Crouch got?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 15:04:52 GMT
How do you see him 'helping us evolve' out if interest? Hes an intelligent player. A player of top 4 calibre whose main strength is his control, comfort on the ball and his ability to be clinical consistantly. I accept we probably havent evolved at all this season, I think we've gone backwards...and Pulis has been totally decieved by Crouch's height...we've become even more direct. But I think with time the presence of Crouch in the team will help us to develop. I dont think we will see any evolution until next season. Our midfield isnt good enough. (If we havent evolved by next season then serious questions need to be aimed at the manager). You cant evolve with a player like Jones. His control is terrible, hes uncomfortable with the ball at his feet...and hes pretty useless in front of goal unless its on a plate for him. I think the sooner TP drops Walters...the more effective Crouch will become. (I like Walters but its not a natural partnership). But we were evolving at the end of last season. We were more positive. We were mixing our play more. We had midfield involved more. That has disappeared this season. I'm not convinced either of them are the answer or that TP is too fussed about 'evolving'. |
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Mar 12, 2012 15:16:18 GMT
There are plenty of good players out there (e.g A.Bilbao) and for a little bit more money than we spent on KJ and Crouch we could have a really good team. Go get 'em Tone!
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 15:32:03 GMT
A lot of sense on here no need for crouch whatsoever it was Walters who was unproven over a premier league season and has come up massively short 2 in open play from 28 it was there that the money should have gone
|
|
|
|
Post by oasis on Mar 12, 2012 15:45:45 GMT
Fickle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 16:17:47 GMT
hype players up then sell them |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2012 16:29:06 GMT
Hes an intelligent player. A player of top 4 calibre whose main strength is his control, comfort on the ball and his ability to be clinical consistantly. I accept we probably havent evolved at all this season, I think we've gone backwards...and Pulis has been totally decieved by Crouch's height...we've become even more direct. But I think with time the presence of Crouch in the team will help us to develop. I dont think we will see any evolution until next season. Our midfield isnt good enough. (If we havent evolved by next season then serious questions need to be aimed at the manager). You cant evolve with a player like Jones. His control is terrible, hes uncomfortable with the ball at his feet...and hes pretty useless in front of goal unless its on a plate for him. I think the sooner TP drops Walters...the more effective Crouch will become. (I like Walters but its not a natural partnership). But we were evolving at the end of last season. We were more positive. We were mixing our play more. We had midfield involved more. That has disappeared this season. I'm not convinced either of them are the answer or that TP is too fussed about 'evolving'. You may be right re TP having no intention of evolving (in which case thats a pretty worrying state of affairs). And you are right that at the end of last season we were playing some great stuff and were far more exciting than we are now. But that has more to do with the wingers and an in form Walters...Jones had very little to do with our upturn in fortunes. He was playing week in week out during our anual 5 month spell of crap and he epitomised everything wrong with us at the time. It is no coincidence that our best stuff has come when we had both wingers playing. One cant help but feel, had the wingers been playing week in week out this season, Crouch would already be well into double figures and Pulis would have saved himself a lot of justified critisism. Hindsight makes Mama look a better player than he was. Its human nature to look back on players with fondness. We mustnt forget that Kenwyne was utter crap week in week out for 5 months. In the few chances he has had this season he has looked equally as poor. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 16:34:17 GMT
But we were evolving at the end of last season. We were more positive. We were mixing our play more. We had midfield involved more. That has disappeared this season. I'm not convinced either of them are the answer or that TP is too fussed about 'evolving'. You may be right re TP having no intention of evolving (in which case thats a pretty worrying state of affairs). And you are right that at the end of last season we were playing some great stuff and were far more exciting than we are now. But that has more to do with the wingers and an in form Walters...Jones had very little to do with our upturn in fortunes. He was playing week in week out during our anual 5 month spell of crap and he epitomised everything wrong with us at the time. It is no coincidence that our best stuff has come when we had both wingers playing. One cant help but feel, had the wingers been playing week in week out this season, Crouch would already be well into double figures and Pulis would have saved himself a lot of justified critisism. Hindsight makes Mama look a better player than he was. Its human nature to look back on players with fondness. We mustnt forget that Kenwyne was utter crap week in week out for 5 months. In the few chances he has had this season he has looked equally as poor. It's pretty blinkered to suggest our run of good form last season had nothing whatsoever to do with Jones. I know you don't like him but credit where it's due eh? Jones was an important part of that run. He's hit and miss, but when he's good he makes a difference. The wingers have been off form but the lack of pace and mobility up front hasn't helped them. |
|
|
|
Post by foster on Mar 12, 2012 16:36:18 GMT
I like KJ, but if for 40k+ per week he can't motivate himself then he can fuck off IMO.
To be fair, if we had decent set of wingers, crouch and KJ would both be banging in the goals.
|
|
|
|
Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 12, 2012 17:01:52 GMT
Jones has been given chances this season by TP and not taken them.he was awful again against Chelsea.Basically he's a lazy player.
|
|
|
|
Post by oasis on Mar 12, 2012 17:19:47 GMT
Well if you're not ripping up chelseaat the Bridge when you are playing up top on your own, with no service in a ten man team they you're not worthy of a Stoke place. Thick.  |
|
|
|
Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 12, 2012 18:31:39 GMT
Kenwyne has really 'ripped it up'every other time he's played hasn't he?Also the addition of the word 'thick'is in an inappropriate place.Does it refer to you or Kenwyne?
|
|
|
|
Post by gremlin on Mar 12, 2012 18:33:10 GMT
Kenwyne had one of the best headers in the world. Now he's in a form slump. Now he never gets to play. Now his confidence is six feet down below. Now he's mad. Now he'll get sold. Got to disagree, havent seen anything from him to suggest he's worth £8 let alone £8M |
|
|
|
Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 12, 2012 18:34:08 GMT
Well if you're not ripping up chelseaat the Bridge when you are playing up top on your own, with no service in a ten man team they you're not worthy of a Stoke place. Thick. It's ok.I understand. 16 is such a confusing age for you.All that acne and trying to talk to girls.We forgive you. |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2012 18:43:48 GMT
Jones had a huge chance against Villa on Boxing Day to show that he's eager to break back into the team.
Ultimately he did nothing and never looked remotely interested.
|
|
|
|
Post by upthefud on Mar 12, 2012 19:04:31 GMT
Being fair, Crouch has scored goals for us this season that KJ wouldn't have.
However let's not pretend as a team we don't look 10x more threatening with Jones and Jerome on the pitch.
It's embarrassing watching a man of Crouch stature being out muscled by tiny players, he's weak, weak in the air and slow as fuck. In fact I think he suits our style even worse than Kitson did.
Being 110% serious I reckon Mama still brings more to the current Stoke team than Crouchy
|
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 19:04:32 GMT
Jones has been given chances this season by TP and not taken them.he was awful again against Chelsea.Basically he's a lazy player. What chances are these? Chelsea? For me I'd rather Jones up front because he's a lot more mobile than Crouch and in no way did he deserve to just get dropped with out a chance to play for his place. |
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on Mar 12, 2012 19:37:47 GMT
useless, bone idle,cant shoot, he has to be in the top 5 shite stoke centre forwards of all time, take the money and run
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Mar 12, 2012 19:39:53 GMT
Kenwyne hasn't really surprised anyone has he?
If you stick the ball on his bonce he'll score. If you don't you will hardly see him. We saw this when he was on loan to us.
My biggest issue with KJ is that for a player with his attributes, if we don't play well he rarely looks arsed enough to grab a game by the scruff of the neck and make things happen.
Make no bones about it, he is lazy and although I don't dispute that he will be down given his omission from the team, he hasn't grasped his opportunities lately when used as a sub and has generally looked disinterested.
I like Kenwyne and sing his song as gustily as anyone but he's bloody frustrating. I want to see him "beast" centre halves and show real desire to keep the shirt. It's not all down to him being lazy as I think he's just a very laid back, pleasant guy with not much anger or edge in him.
Sadly when you're 6 foot 5, 15 stone and on 40k (60k with bonuses) a week you need to do a lot more than he often does.
He can do it but I'm not sure why he chooses not to, perhaps we aren't managing him correctly? That's not a dig at TP as nobody has managed to consistently do it with him but surely there must be a button that gets him going?
He could be a great asset but at the minute he's a bloody expensive sub for a club of our stature.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 19:43:18 GMT
useless, bone idle,cant shoot, he has to be in the top 5 shite stoke centre forwards of all time, take the money and run Seriously, you can't think of five worse? I could probably name ten worse than Mama, let alone Jones, since we moved to the Brit. |
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2012 19:46:43 GMT
useless, bone idle,cant shoot, he has to be in the top 5 shite stoke centre forwards of all time, take the money and run Seriously, you can't think of five worse? I could probably name ten worse than Mama, let alone Jones, since we moved to the Brit. I can think of one that seems undroppable how ever he's played. |
|
|
|
Post by Irish Stokie on Mar 12, 2012 19:47:56 GMT
On his day KJ is a really top class player, Terry said he was the most difficult player to mark in the Prem, and at one point Sunderland laughed off a £15M bid for him from Spuds. The fact is that if his attitude matched his ability he wouldn't be here, he'd be at a top 4 club but at times he looks so uninterested it's untrue.
At times last season he was superb, but at others, home to Sunderland and most of the winter, we may as well have been playing with 10 men. I thought he did well last year and was unlucky to lose his starting place but Crouch is a TP wet dream.
|
|
