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Post by bunnyscfc on Dec 21, 2011 12:48:01 GMT
Hoesktra only turned up 1 in 6 or 7 games. Hid in the others.
Another observation from the 'old' days that won't sit well with some. Amazing skill, but the most overrated player we've ever had in my eyes.*
* in terms of consistent end product
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Post by peterthornesboots on Dec 21, 2011 12:51:49 GMT
Hoesktra only turned up 1 in 6 or 7 games. Hid in the others. Another observation from the 'old' days that won't sit well with some. Amazing skill, but the most overrated player we've ever had in my eyes.* * in terms of consistent end product Strangely enough I have to agree. I was only a youngster when Hoekstra was playing. I remember a player who was injured for long periods and was never the most consistent. Yet, as we all know, when he was in the mood and in full flow he was nigh on unstoppable!
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Post by LDE76 on Dec 21, 2011 12:55:25 GMT
Thorney useless and a bottler? Really? He didn't get off to a good start but didn't he end up with something like 15 goals in a team that was relegated? He was also the only Stoke player who came out of the Birmingham and Man City disasters with any credit. He was at that time, for me anyway. He used to go missing when we needed him to stand up and be counted, and he had this infuriating habit of refusing to attack the ball in the danger area. He eventually became a good third division striker and had one incredible half-season in which he was probably the most prolific striker we've had in modern times. And respect for refusing to celebrate when he scored that hat-trick for Cardiff. But during that relegation season he was poor, and he didn't score 15 goals either. 16 goals in all competitions. Don't know how many in the league. www.stokecityfc.com/page/Records/0,,10310~1332055,00.html IMO he was pretty good, at least in the second half of the season, given the circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2011 13:00:58 GMT
From an 'end-product' point of view, I always thought that Bjarni was far more consistent. Couldn't understand why Pulis chose to keep the injury-prone Hoekstra instead.
I still couldn't bring myself to say Hoekstra was overrated though. If you think of football as being entertainment, there weren't many times I left the ground without thinking he'd given me value for money.
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Post by onionman on Dec 21, 2011 13:06:42 GMT
He was at that time, for me anyway. He used to go missing when we needed him to stand up and be counted, and he had this infuriating habit of refusing to attack the ball in the danger area. He eventually became a good third division striker and had one incredible half-season in which he was probably the most prolific striker we've had in modern times. And respect for refusing to celebrate when he scored that hat-trick for Cardiff. But during that relegation season he was poor, and he didn't score 15 goals either. 16 goals in all competitions. Don't know how many in the league. www.stokecityfc.com/page/Records/0,,10310~1332055,00.html IMO he was pretty good, at least in the second half of the season, given the circumstances. Fair enough, I'm surprised at that statistic. I suspect there were a few early season cup goals in that tally (setting myself up to be proved wrong again...) because I'm sure he didn't score many in the second half of the season as we plunged to relegation. It says a lot about Thorney that when we signed Gunnlaugsson as the 1999/2000 season appeared to be fizzling out, the general concensus was that Lightbourne should be the guy to keep his place to play alongside him. In the end, Lightbourne was injured, Thorne kept his place, scored four goals against Chesterfield and became a different player overnight. Confidence undoubtedly, but it took the kick up the arse of competition for places to get him going - two and a half years after we signed him.
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Post by swampmongrel on Dec 21, 2011 13:09:03 GMT
Quality thread Not sure why we have to find something to argue about when Stoke are in a better place than at any time since the internet was invented, but great to see some of the old and best informed posters from the old pre-rivals days contributing again. So, just because things are great now, it means that people can just come on here and completely fabricate what when on during our darkest days and we all should nod in agreement? Along with Keith Humphreys and Jez Moxey, Peter Coates presided over one of the worst, if not THE worst periods in the club's history. Some people clearly feel uncomfortable with that fact considering the tremendous job he's done since he returned to the chairman's seat in 2006, but does that mean they can come on here and talk complete bollocks? To be fair to Marchy his earlier contributions appeared to be a defence of Bates and that his appointment was logical at the time. I think given the problems at the problems at the club Chic did a pretty good job. Yes, he got his dates wrong and he's an argumentative old sod but I don't think he was making an attempt to defend the Moxey, Humphreys, Coates tripartite of evil.
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Post by onionman on Dec 21, 2011 13:09:51 GMT
From an 'end-product' point of view, I always thought that Bjarni was far more consistent. Couldn't understand why Pulis chose to keep the injury-prone Hoekstra instead. I still couldn't bring myself to say Hoekstra was overrated though. If you think of football as being entertainment, there weren't many times I left the ground without thinking he'd given me value for money. Maybe over-rated in terms of what he actually achieved for us. But not over-rated in terms of his ability and occasional entertainment value. Not a Pulis player at all on the face of it but TP does value someone who can create something out of nothing - probably because it means he can pack the rest of his team with talentless grafters!
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Post by peterthornesboots on Dec 21, 2011 13:16:42 GMT
From an 'end-product' point of view, I always thought that Bjarni was far more consistent. Couldn't understand why Pulis chose to keep the injury-prone Hoekstra instead. I still couldn't bring myself to say Hoekstra was overrated though. If you think of football as being entertainment, there weren't many times I left the ground without thinking he'd given me value for money. Maybe over-rated in terms of what he actually achieved for us. But not over-rated in terms of his ability and occasional entertainment value. Not a Pulis player at all on the face of it but TP does value someone who can create something out of nothing - probably because it means he can pack the rest of his team with talentless grafters! This When the guy was firing (ala Reading) he was one of the most exciting players I've ever seen
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Post by mcf on Dec 21, 2011 13:23:26 GMT
Every decision that we made just smacked of being absolutely skint and the blame has to sit squarely on the shoulders of the owners.
Bates didn't help himself but he did have 1 arm tied behind his back.
I remember the disbelief in not just having being promoted, but standing on the pitch hearing the fans sing ' There's only one Peter Coates'
For those who remember the early years, it was one of the most surreal experiences ever.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 21, 2011 13:25:58 GMT
You can slag of Coatesy 'til the cow's come home but leave Hooky alone.
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Post by mcf on Dec 21, 2011 13:27:24 GMT
he was always fucking injured he pulled of more games than sorenson
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Post by peterthornesboots on Dec 21, 2011 13:28:48 GMT
Every decision that we made just smacked of being absolutely skint and the blame has to sit squarely on the shoulders of the owners. Bates didn't help himself but he did have 1 arm tied behind his back. I remember the disbelief in not just having being promoted, but standing on the pitch hearing the fans sing ' There's only one Peter Coates' For those who remember the early years, it was one of the most surreal experiences ever. Indeed it's one of footballs great stories regarding how Coates has managed to redeem himself
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Post by bunnyscfc on Dec 21, 2011 13:32:56 GMT
I meant overrated in terms of many Stokies seem to think he was 10/10 every single game. No doubting his ability. As skillful a player as I've seen at Stoke. Possibly the most un-TP one too.
Lost his bottle more times than a Wolves fan when we've gone 2-1 up.
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Post by onionman on Dec 21, 2011 13:36:49 GMT
I meant overrated in terms of many Stokies seem to think he was 10/10 every single game. No doubting his ability. As skillful a player as I've seen at Stoke. Possibly the most un-TP one too. Lost his bottle more times than a Wolves fan when we've gone 2-1 up. I'd agree with that. Though if he played every match as if the opposition was Reading, he'd have never dropped down to Stoke's level. I guess virtually all your signings in the third division are going be flawed in some way - either in ability or mentally.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 21, 2011 13:41:13 GMT
Great thread and the type of performance that could save the Oatcake from relegation. What I don't understand is how smudge resigned as Chairman but stayed on the board. Will he come back and save the Oatcake and redeem himself? Threads like this and the posters on it will help. March would you like to take over my username, yer daftbugger? ;D
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Post by westendstokie on Dec 21, 2011 13:55:48 GMT
Fuckin' hell, I thought there were 100+ posts about Steve Keen. Nevertheless very interesting to rake over another traumatic episode in my Stoke City watching.
Glad to see the bit about Sheron. As the years have rattled on I became troubled about the dogs abuse we gave him at QPR the first time we played them with him in their side.
To the best of my recollection it was asumed that he was a money grabbing whatnot but it only became clearer much later that he was sold to help pay for the Temple on the Mount. I always said to my mate's that the right thing to do would be to apologise to him for that particular day which was also repeated with greater venom in the home game.
I'm not sure I've ever seen an opposition player get the stick he got. If on the very off chance you ever read this Mike then I'm sorry.
Anyway back to the point - Blackburn scraped up last year, spunked their money on a centre half and look doomed now. Not sure it's all down to Keen but there's a smell off death about the place.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 21, 2011 14:09:45 GMT
Over 70 odd games in three years isn't exactly club paper jack is it?
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Post by Davef on Dec 21, 2011 14:21:05 GMT
So, just because things are great now, it means that people can just come on here and completely fabricate what when on during our darkest days and we all should nod in agreement? Along with Keith Humphreys and Jez Moxey, Peter Coates presided over one of the worst, if not THE worst periods in the club's history. Some people clearly feel uncomfortable with that fact considering the tremendous job he's done since he returned to the chairman's seat in 2006, but does that mean they can come on here and talk complete bollocks? To be fair to Marchy his earlier contributions appeared to be a defence of Bates and that his appointment was logical at the time. I think given the problems at the problems at the club Chic did a pretty good job. Yes, he got his dates wrong and he's an argumentative old sod but I don't think he was making an attempt to defend the Moxey, Humphreys, Coates tripartite of evil. I think his claim that there was no crisis at the club at the time suggests that he was.
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Post by onionman on Dec 21, 2011 14:22:31 GMT
Over 70 odd games in three years isn't exactly club paper jack is it? Come on, you're not arguing Hoekstra wasn't a sicknote are you? I was a fan of Hoekstra, but it's hard to argue he was the most reliable of players.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 21, 2011 14:25:11 GMT
Over 70 odd games in three years isn't exactly club paper jack is it? Come on, you're not arguing Hoekstra wasn't a sicknote are you? I was a fan of Hoekstra, but it's hard to argue he was the most reliable of players. No but bearing in mind he was only at our place because of injuries in the first place we got a lot out of him and the fact that Tone would usually pick him, (especially at home) put pay to a lot of Pulis hating wankstain theories of the time.
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Post by AlliG on Dec 21, 2011 14:28:43 GMT
16 goals in all competitions. Don't know how many in the league. www.stokecityfc.com/page/Records/0,,10310~1332055,00.html IMO he was pretty good, at least in the second half of the season, given the circumstances. I would have said the opposite. He scored the winner in Chic's last match as manager against Bradford, missed an absolute sitter from 2 yards out when the score was 0-0 in Kamara's first match in charge at Oxford and didn't score again (or particularly look like scoring) until the last match of the season against Man City. As has been mentioned earlier it was not until Gudjon arrived (and particularly Gunnarsson) that he finally began to look the player we thought we had brought and eventually turned out to be even better than that.
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Post by onionman on Dec 21, 2011 14:44:45 GMT
Come on, you're not arguing Hoekstra wasn't a sicknote are you? I was a fan of Hoekstra, but it's hard to argue he was the most reliable of players. No but bearing in mind he was only at our place because of injuries in the first place we got a lot out of him and the fact that Tone would usually pick him, (especially at home) put pay to a lot of Pulis hating wankstain theories of the time. Yes, I'd agree he was a good player for us overall - a very frustrating one at times, but he did some important things, like that goal at Watford the year we avoided relegation. And as I said Pulis has always liked a player who can create a bit of magic (if only because it means the rest of the team can be set up even more defensively and you still have a goal threat).
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Post by onionman on Dec 21, 2011 14:52:58 GMT
16 goals in all competitions. Don't know how many in the league. www.stokecityfc.com/page/Records/0,,10310~1332055,00.html IMO he was pretty good, at least in the second half of the season, given the circumstances. I would have said the opposite. He scored the winner in Chic's last match as manager against Bradford, missed an absolute sitter from 2 yards out when the score was 0-0 in Kamara's first match in charge at Oxford and didn't score again (or particularly look like scoring) until the last match of the season against Man City. As has been mentioned earlier it was not until Gudjon arrived (and particularly Gunnarsson) that he finally began to look the player we thought we had brought and eventually turned out to be even better than that. He also specialised in the old pro's trick of looking like you're willing to die for the cause by gritting his teeth and chasing an overhit pass towards the corner flag when we're 7-0 down. Something guaranteed to get the fans on your side, which most intelligent former pros will admit doing when they were out of form. Problem was in his first couple of years he didn't back that up by throwing his head among the boots in the six yard box to grab a goal (like Crouch for example in our last match). Nevertheless this isn't meant to be a Peter Thorne rant. He goes down as one of our best strikers of the past 30 years thanks to his excellent form in the second half of his Stoke career.
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Post by ryanbox360 on Dec 21, 2011 16:18:25 GMT
TP for England!
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 21, 2011 16:52:21 GMT
Bates was an insane appointment, a decision that revolved around money rather than football.
Like everything done at that time, it was done on the cheap. The most damning evidence of that is the Britannia Stadium itself.
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Post by guernseydave on Dec 21, 2011 17:03:15 GMT
Two of my interesting SCFC moments in this thread. Hooky's last game and the send off after the game. "I love you guys" And feeling fucking pissed off and proud at the same time as the Blueturd supporters celebrated and Thorne looked really apologetic towards the Stoke end and got a muted applause. GD P.S Dont ask NJKK about the brum game
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Post by Pricey on Dec 21, 2011 17:15:32 GMT
Chic Bates' less-than-glittering managerial career since getting the boot from Stoke suggests the start of the 97/98 season was akin to Holloway's Blackpool or Phil Brown's Hull in recent years. So basically, had we started the season slowly instead of promisingly, we'd have been relegated by Easter.
He wasn't very good and when we started losing had no idea how to turn it around.
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