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Post by Pricey on Nov 28, 2011 5:14:42 GMT
When we came into form around the time of the West Ham QF last season Wilson had established himself at right back and Higginbotham had come into the side on the left.
If Higgy is now nearing full fitness I reckon we should switch Wilson back over to the right and drop Wilkinson to give us our best two footballing full backs. I like Wilko's endeavour and never-say-die spirit but am getting a bit tired of another useless ball to no-one and he's dropped off significantly in recent weeks.
The only reason the Wilson, Shawcross, Huth, Higginbotham back four was broken up was because of Higgy's injury and now Pulis seems to have decided Shawcross and Huth are the the best option in the middle I say we revert to the 'form team' from March this year; or at least that team but with Sorro for Bego and Crouch for Jones.
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Post by geoffscott on Nov 28, 2011 8:41:49 GMT
Agree 100%.
If Shotton is still deemed not good enough to be given a run in the team, it's Wilson at right back every time for me.
We don't really have a left back at the club, but Higgy normally does the defensive part of the job well.
After that I would have though Upson could be a temporary stop gap.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Nov 28, 2011 8:43:36 GMT
Wilko totally marked their danger man out of the game on Saturday.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2011 8:52:56 GMT
I entirely disagree. Wilkinson is the best option at right back and Wilson linked superbly with Ethers on Saturday. Absolute idiocy to continue chopping and changing the back four.
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Post by shiftyfifty on Nov 28, 2011 8:57:14 GMT
Wilko totally marked their danger man out of the game on Saturday. Only with Pennants help, and the amount of times Wilkinson looked lost with the ball at the feet was unbelievable. No matter where he comes from and how big his heart is, he's not Premiership. Hope it's just a matter of time before we see our strongest back four.
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Post by geoffscott on Nov 28, 2011 9:56:03 GMT
I entirely disagree. Wilkinson is the best option at right back and Wilson linked superbly with Ethers on Saturday. Absolute idiocy to continue chopping and changing the back four. Sorry I missed the part in the op, where it said 'continue to chop and change the back four'. For a stable back four I would go with Wilson RB, Higgy LB, Huth and Shawcross in the middle. Wilson linked up with Ethers very well on Saturday, but did you not notice that every time Wilson had the chance to put a ball into the box it was on his left foot and each opportunity to cross was wasted? On the other side Wilko didn't link up with Pennant, maybe that was always the plan, but if you are going to have one fullback who just stays back and defends and the other full back who links up in attack, why not let that attacking full back play to his strengths, i.e. his stronger foot?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2011 10:12:02 GMT
I entirely disagree. Wilkinson is the best option at right back and Wilson linked superbly with Ethers on Saturday. Absolute idiocy to continue chopping and changing the back four. Sorry I missed the part in the op, where it said 'continue to chop and change the back four'. For a stable back four I would go with Wilson RB, Higgy LB, Huth and Shawcross in the middle. Wilson linked up with Ethers very well on Saturday, but did you not notice that every time Wilson had the chance to put a ball into the box it was on his left foot and each opportunity to cross was wasted? On the other side Wilko didn't link up with Pennant, maybe that was always the plan, but if you are going to have one fullback who just stays back and defends and the other full back who links up in attack, why not let that attacking full back play to his strengths, i.e. his stronger foot? Wilkinson did't get forward as much as usual on Saturday but I think he had specific instructions to deal with Hoilett. Wilko had a perfectly decent game in a much better defensive display. I don’t mind Higgy coming back in but I would rather see that accommodate another go in Central Midfield for Wilson rather than a move to right back.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 28, 2011 10:15:07 GMT
I suggested the same thing last week, but nobody bothered to reply and just rolled their eyes like this
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Post by potterpaul on Nov 28, 2011 10:17:15 GMT
The chopping and changing point does have merit but I would like to see wilson and wilko swapped over simply because of Ethers reluctance to cut in. I believe that wilko would love to support Ethers on the left and be the player to cut in taking the pressure off ethers. Also believe it would give Wilko a better opportunity of getting that goal he so really deserves.
We all know that Wilson is quite capable of being a quality RB and I reckon will suit JP down to the ground with the increased quality of ball play that comes with Wilson.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2011 10:17:25 GMT
How about we leave the back 4 alone? Stability is the key to a great defence
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Post by worstgolfer on Nov 28, 2011 10:20:15 GMT
wilko has his own fan club on here it doesnt matter how badly he plays they will still call for delap,crouch,pennant o be dopped and the reason why we have been shipping goals in ffs
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Post by shiftyfifty on Nov 28, 2011 10:35:12 GMT
How about we leave the back 4 alone? Stability is the key to a great defence Stability, yeah, when we get the strongest team.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 28, 2011 10:40:02 GMT
wilko has his own fan club on here it doesnt matter how badly he plays they will still call for delap,crouch,pennant o be dopped and the reason why we have been shipping goals in ffs He also has some ridiculous criticism from people who have preconceptions and cannot (will not) appreciate the obvious improvement in his play over the last 18 months - 2 years.
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Post by geoffscott on Nov 28, 2011 11:53:54 GMT
wilko has his own fan club on here it doesnt matter how badly he plays they will still call for delap,crouch,pennant o be dopped and the reason why we have been shipping goals in ffs He also has some ridiculous criticism from people who have preconceptions and cannot (will not) appreciate the obvious improvement in his play over the last 18 months - 2 years. Agree with you there and I'd much rather see Wilko at RB than Huth or any other center half for that matter. Personally I think two full backs with the license and ability to support their team mates when we have the ball, would play to the strengths of Pennant, Etherington, our strikers and also help the central midfield.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 28, 2011 12:05:44 GMT
How about we leave the back 4 alone? Stability is the key to a great defence You can't expect the same back 4 to start 60 odd games, you have to rotate
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Post by lordb on Nov 28, 2011 12:06:41 GMT
I agree with the opening post....upto a point
Wilson has no pace at all so if the otehr side have a pacy winger I would always play Wilko
also sometimes we need Wilko's aggression e.t.c.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 28, 2011 12:34:55 GMT
How about we leave the back 4 alone? Stability is the key to a great defence You can't expect the same back 4 to start 60 odd games, you have to rotate This is a myth. Mancini has got completely untold resources, he's got more money to spend on players than any manager in the history of football has ever had before - he's got the best midfielders and strikers in the world coming out of his ears but he's been playing the same two centre halves (Kompany & Lescott) in the Prem and in Europe all season! Even with his embarassment of riches, Mancini is still fielding the same two in the heart of his defence each week becasue he knows that a successfull defence is a settled defence.
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 28, 2011 12:38:09 GMT
You can't expect the same back 4 to start 60 odd games, you have to rotate This is a myth. Mancini has got completely untold resources, he's got more money to spend on players than any manager in the history of football has ever had before - he's got the best midfielders and strikers in the world coming out of his ears but he's been playing the same two centre halves (Kompany & Lescott) in the Prem and in Europe all season! Even with his embarassment of riches, Mancini is still fielding the same two in the heart of his defence each week becasue he knows that a successfull defence is a settled defence.He is constantly rotating his fullbacks though. Where does that fit with a thread about fullbacks and Momo's point about changing a defence?
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 28, 2011 12:41:45 GMT
Wilko is an excellent right back.
He can defend, he can get forward, he puts his body on the line whenever it is called for, he always gives 100% from start to finish and these past couple of years he's learnt to cut out a lot of the rash challenges (although we do still see it from time to time!).
I wouldn't mess about with that position right now.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 28, 2011 12:47:03 GMT
This is a myth. Mancini has got completely untold resources, he's got more money to spend on players than any manager in the history of football has ever had before - he's got the best midfielders and strikers in the world coming out of his ears but he's been playing the same two centre halves (Kompany & Lescott) in the Prem and in Europe all season! Even with his embarassment of riches, Mancini is still fielding the same two in the heart of his defence each week becasue he knows that a successfull defence is a settled defence.He is constantly rotating his fullbacks though. Where does that fit with a thread about fullbacks and Momo's point about changing a defence? I nearly mentioned the full backs Para but I didn't want the specific point of my response to stokelad's specific point, to become lost in my reply. That being, that you don't have to rotate players because of some notion that they can't play two games a week - it's a myth (especially at the heart of the defence), as the continued ever presence of Kompnay and Lescott demonstrates. If you read the thread about Thursday's team, hardly anybody has got Huth and Ryan at the heart of their defence, it seems many people around here, have fallen into the same trap as TP, in believing that you can't play the same centre backs in the Prem and in Europe - which is a mistake imo. EDIT: Oh sorry, I forgot to mention the fullbacks. I'm a firm believer that the relationship between our wingers and full backs is vitally important, far more important than a lot of people give it credit for. Both Matty and JP seem to be improving slightly of late - far better imo to allow them continue building that relationship on Thursday rather than chop and change again by the time we get to Goodison.
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Post by ParaPsych on Nov 28, 2011 12:49:59 GMT
He is constantly rotating his fullbacks though. Where does that fit with a thread about fullbacks and Momo's point about changing a defence? I nearly mentioned the full backs Para but I didn't want the specific point of my response to stokelad's specific point, to become lost in my reply. That being, that you don't have to rotate players because of some notion that they can't play two games a week - it's a myth (especially at the heart of the defence), as the continued ever presence of Kompnay and Lescott demonstrates. If you read the thread about Thursday's team, hardly anybody has got Huth and Ryan at the heart of their defence, it seems many people around here, have fallen into the same trap as TP, in believing that you can't play the same centre backs in the Prem and in Europe - which is a mistake imo. I think you can get away with not rotating the centre backs. They have very little running to do anyway. But surely our constantly over-lapping attacking fullbacks will quickly run themselves into the ground if they play every game?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 28, 2011 12:53:05 GMT
I nearly mentioned the full backs Para but I didn't want the specific point of my response to stokelad's specific point, to become lost in my reply. That being, that you don't have to rotate players because of some notion that they can't play two games a week - it's a myth (especially at the heart of the defence), as the continued ever presence of Kompnay and Lescott demonstrates. If you read the thread about Thursday's team, hardly anybody has got Huth and Ryan at the heart of their defence, it seems many people around here, have fallen into the same trap as TP, in believing that you can't play the same centre backs in the Prem and in Europe - which is a mistake imo. I think you can get away with not rotating the centre backs. They have very little running to do anyway. But surely our constantly over-lapping attacking fullbacks will quickly run themselves into the ground if they play every game? I take it you were being sarcastic about our constantly over-lapping fullbacks? ;D
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Post by geoffscott on Nov 28, 2011 12:54:34 GMT
Wilko is an excellent right back. He can defend, he can get forward, he puts his body on the line whenever it is called for, he always gives 100% from start to finish and these past couple of years he's learnt to cut out a lot of the rash challenges (although we do still see it from time to time!). I wouldn't mess about with that position right now. Undoubtedly defending is his strength (though the rash challenges will always be there), but 0 goals and 1 assist in 79 premier league appearances must surely support the theory that Wilko can NOT get forward with any real affect.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 28, 2011 12:59:27 GMT
I'm not saying he's the perfect full back.
Then again, in reference to your point above, how many assists and goals has Wilson got from his time at full back?
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Post by prem4stoke on Nov 28, 2011 13:13:01 GMT
Just replace Wilko with Shotton, better player, faster, better passer, crosser and scores goals
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Post by geoffscott on Nov 28, 2011 13:56:31 GMT
I'm not saying he's the perfect full back. Then again, in reference to your point above, how many assists and goals has Wilson got from his time at full back? I don't actually think Wilson is the long term answer, he is a midfielder by trade after all, just maybe he has a better overall game than Wilko. For me full backs at Stoke are a weakness, I though Shotton would have been given a run in the team by now, but that doesn't appear to be an option now that Pulis has said they will be considering sending him out on loan. So, ideal situation for me is the purchase of 2 experienced full backs in the January window and not center halves that 'can' play full back.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Nov 28, 2011 14:25:46 GMT
Wilson was rightly dropped for Higgy as he has been very poor this season, while Wilko has done well and generally looked more solid. Wilson player well on Saturday but so did Wilko and there us no way in the world that Wilko should be dropped. Hoillett is one of the best players in the Prem this season and has a lot of admirers from clubs in the top 6 but Wilko managed to keep him extremely quiet, with help from Pennant who was excellent defensively.
Higgy was awful against QPR and doesn't deserve his place at the moment and we should stick with the current back four that looked a lot more solid than we have in a long time n
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2011 14:37:41 GMT
Would not do this for a couple of weeks. If Higgy can regain match fitness then yes, but at the moment wilko is better at right back than a half fit higgy is at left back. Higgy had a part in two of Qpr's goals, particularly the first where he let the player run off, and didn't even challenge the player at Maccabi for there goal
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Post by mayf on Nov 28, 2011 14:50:40 GMT
Wilson was rightly dropped for Higgy as he has been very poor this season, while Wilko has done well and generally looked more solid. Wilson player well on Saturday but so did Wilko and there us no way in the world that Wilko should be dropped. Hoillett is one of the best players in the Prem this season and has a lot of admirers from clubs in the top 6 but Wilko managed to keep him extremely quiet, with help from Pennant who was excellent defensively. Higgy was awful against QPR and doesn't deserve his place at the moment and we should stick with the current back four that looked a lot more solid than we have in a long time n Absolutely spot on Irish
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Post by robwahlmann on Nov 28, 2011 17:27:40 GMT
When we came into form around the time of the West Ham QF last season Wilson had established himself at right back and Higginbotham had come into the side on the left. If Higgy is now nearing full fitness I reckon we should switch Wilson back over to the right and drop Wilkinson to give us our best two footballing full backs. I like Wilko's endeavour and never-say-die spirit but am getting a bit tired of another useless ball to no-one and he's dropped off significantly in recent weeks. The only reason the Wilson, Shawcross, Huth, Higginbotham back four was broken up was because of Higgy's injury and now Pulis seems to have decided Shawcross and Huth are the the best option in the middle I say we revert to the 'form team' from March this year; or at least that team but with Sorro for Bego and Crouch for Jones. I have also thought about this, even though Higgy had a nightmare of a game against QPR! I thought Wilko was our worst player against Blackburn, and that Pennant saved him time after time! Shotton could also be an alternative long term for the right back spot!
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