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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 17:42:19 GMT
Who said I was moaning? Where did I say about guarantees? I EXPECTED Stoke to win today. We didn't - we scraped a draw against 10 men - FACT. A draw isn't the end of the world. I look forward to next week - more speculation about players who we'll never sign in a million years and the inevitable signing of a Sunderland player. The tone of your posts on this thread suggested you felt we should have won today and that people are right to be aggrieved that we haven't. The tone? Jesus wept Rob.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:43:57 GMT
Why should we expect to score against a team just because they are a newly promoted club? Everton are an established premier club and lost 1-0 to QPR who were battered last week. Wigan have been in the prremiership longer than us and possess the striker that many on here long to see in red and white. Did they hammer Norwich? This is a tough league and we will have to battle for every point. Without playing particularly well today we got a good hard earned away point. What is wrong with a supporter of an established Premier League team that are in Europe, well managed, and run by a Chairman who has 100's of millions of pounds, EXPECTING to get a win against a newly promoted team? Just how unrealistic is that? Yeah the tone - read in the quote. You suggest we had a right to expect to win that game today. I don't think any team not in the top 6 has a right to expect to win any away game in the Premier League, especially at this stage of the season.
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 21, 2011 17:46:10 GMT
The tone of your posts on this thread suggested you felt we should have won today and that people are right to be aggrieved that we haven't. The tone? Jesus wept Rob. You've said you expected us to win. You inferred today's game was not a tough one. You've used Bolton's win against QPR as an example of how it should be against newly promoted teams. I think his interpretation of the 'tone' of your posts being of a moaning nature are quite fair
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 17:47:56 GMT
So you are saying that I have no right to expect my team to win today?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:51:35 GMT
So you are saying that I have no right to expect my team to win today? To outright expect a win as a given? Especially given the state of our squad? Yes. A win was possible and you'd hope we can get a result, but to outright expect a win as a formality, yes, I'd say you have no right to expect a win away from home in the Premier League. We had a good chance of winning, but that's not the same thing, is it? I don't quite see how you can go into a game expecting a win and still claim to be happy with a draw and the performance. Isn't that an incompatible stance?
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 21, 2011 17:52:05 GMT
So you are saying that I have no right to expect my team to win today? You have the right to expect whatever you like but we have the right to suggest you are a little unrealistic. If the bookies had us as 75%+ to win the game before it started i'd say you could possibly 'expect' us to win. I'm guessing it wasn't anywhere near that cut and dry and being hopeful or even confident is as far as it should go. Expecting to win should be saved for cup matches against lower league teams.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 17:53:20 GMT
I never expect us to win. I've supported us for too long to be so optimistic
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:58:00 GMT
Nobody is really that pissed off at the result, there appears to be a Pavlovian response by people to post "stop moaning" threads after a loss or a draw, even though nobody is really moaning much, bar maybe a tiny handful of the usual suspects. Anyrode, I'm off to bed. See the exiles and part-time locals next Sunday Nite All
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 21, 2011 17:58:19 GMT
Looking at Norwich today I have a hunch that there will be quite a few sides going to Norwich and coming away with 3pts before the end of the season. They really dont look like they have much up top and I expect once their initial enthusiasm has gone after a few defeats they will be struggling. Taking into consideration our continued abject away form. This may well turn out to be one of the more winnable games away from home. Slack set piece defending and a missed penno is hardly a great performance and its really 2 pts dropped Imho.Still no away win in the league since boxing day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:59:33 GMT
Looking at Norwich today I have a hunch that there will be quite a few sides going to Norwich and coming away with 3pts before the end of the season. They really dont look like they have much up top and I expect once their initial enthusiasm has gone after a few defeats they will be struggling. Taking into consideration our continued abject away form. This may well turn out to be one of the more winnable games away from home. Slack set piece defending and a missed penno is hardly a great performance and its really 2 pts dropped Imho.Still no away win in the league since boxing day. Not sure you can judge an entire performance on a goal and a penno.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 18:00:14 GMT
Looking at Norwich today I have a hunch that there will be quite a few sides going to Norwich and coming away with 3pts before the end of the season. They really dont look like they have much up top and I expect once their initial enthusiasm has gone after a few defeats they will be struggling. Taking into consideration our continued abject away form. This may well turn out to be one of the more winnable games away from home. Slack set piece defending and a missed penno is hardly a great performance and its really 2 pts dropped Imho.Still no away win in the league since boxing day. Not sure you can judge an entire performance on a goal and a penno. I can see them struggling big style though Rob.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2011 18:01:05 GMT
You've are getting got there in the end, by debating specific points, rather than just being shocked by the 'incredible reaction' to today's result. Some of the 'negativity' has merit and some of it doesn't. Is the irony of trying to take the intellectual high ground on this "debate" while posting with words crossed out, lost on you? Playground stuff. I'm more than happy for you to explain it to me ...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 18:03:00 GMT
Not sure you can judge an entire performance on a goal and a penno. I can see them struggling big style though Rob. They'll be down there, but they have a good home record and he's a decent manager. I think they'll put up a fight even if they go down.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 18:05:08 GMT
I can see them struggling big style though Rob. They'll be down there, but they have a good home record and he's a decent manager. I think they'll put up a fight even if they go down. They won't do a Derby, but I can see them doing a Burnley.
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Post by itsmorethanagame on Aug 21, 2011 18:13:16 GMT
You said you couldn't have a proper debate with me unless I highlighted specific negative posts/threads. I think there have been enough of them to speak broadly. 1. No I didn't. 2. And you're entitled to that opinion ... my opinion (as I said originally) is that I hate those types of posts, for me 'broad' means 'vague', which ultimately means 'pointless'. If you've got a specific opinion, make it and then let's debate it. I haven't got any further than reading this post. Homzy can post what he fucking well wants. Who makes you judge on what is acceptable to post and what is not? I agree with the majority of what Homzy is saying and it pretty much echoes my opinions. Other people disagree, and that is fine, they are entitled to their opinions. But don't start calling the odds on what style of posts people can and cannot be making.
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Post by senojbor on Aug 21, 2011 18:14:26 GMT
I thought we were pretty shit. Better second half and deserved point. I just expect more. Maybe my expectations are too high, fuck knows. We need more players so we have more options. It's a well known fact that PAYING football supporters, ESPECIALLY Stoke City supporters, should have no expectations whatsoever. In fact any hint of having any, even the tiniest, will be clamped down upon by the Pulis Thought Police. I'd wager you didn't go to Norwich. You've probably not seen the game either.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 18:24:19 GMT
It's a well known fact that PAYING football supporters, ESPECIALLY Stoke City supporters, should have no expectations whatsoever. In fact any hint of having any, even the tiniest, will be clamped down upon by the Pulis Thought Police. I'd wager you didn't go to Norwich. You've probably not seen the game either. No I didn't - that's why I haven't commented on the performance. Like I say, I expected us to win today but a draw isn't the end of the world.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2011 18:34:28 GMT
1. No I didn't. 2. And you're entitled to that opinion ... my opinion (as I said originally) is that I hate those types of posts, for me 'broad' means 'vague', which ultimately means 'pointless'. If you've got a specific opinion, make it and then let's debate it. I haven't got any further than reading this post. Homzy can post what he fucking well wants. Who makes you judge on what is acceptable to post and what is not? I agree with the majority of what Homzy is saying and it pretty much echoes my opinions. Other people disagree, and that is fine, they are entitled to their opinions. But don't start calling the odds on what style of posts people can and cannot be making. Of course Homzy can post what he fucking well wants, I haven't (not even remotely) suggested that he can't ... I just expressed my opinion that I'd find it easier to engage him in debate, if he was actually specific in criticising those he hand an issue with ... if that's, okay with you, like?
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Post by bogus on Aug 21, 2011 18:43:53 GMT
I usually expect us to get nothing on our travels. Only 4 teams picked up over half of the 57 away pts available last season, and even the champions, ManU, weren't one of them. It's very, very tough and a haul of 15-20pts over the season is bordering on spectacular, imo. As a result, I'm really happy with a point to the tally, remaining unbeaten for the season, and especially after a long trip to Switzerland last Thursday. I've never understood why people get so constantly enraged when we don't win away. Even the top teams don't win half their games away, so why should mid and lower table teams even come close to that? We're going to drop a LOT of points away from home, folks. Get used to it
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Post by Titan Uranus on Aug 21, 2011 18:53:48 GMT
Looking at Norwich today I have a hunch that there will be quite a few sides going to Norwich and coming away with 3pts before the end of the season. They really dont look like they have much up top and I expect once their initial enthusiasm has gone after a few defeats they will be struggling. Taking into consideration our continued abject away form. This may well turn out to be one of the more winnable games away from home. Slack set piece defending and a missed penno is hardly a great performance and its really 2 pts dropped Imho.Still no away win in the league since boxing day. Agree. Poor performance from Stoke against a poor Norwich side. Switching Etherington to the left was a bad move in my opinion. He seemed to have the beating of their right-back and I think Ethers is wasted on the right. Shotton was a breath of fresh air to the proceedings.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 21, 2011 18:53:53 GMT
The reaction of a lot of Stoke fans to today's result has convinced me that expectations have reached unrealistic levels. I'm by no means a happy clapper but there was not a lot wrong with our performance today, even before the sending-off. I thought we were unfortunate to be behind at half-time (we created more chances, but Walters' touch let him down once or twice, and Etherington should have done better) and the second half was pretty much all Stoke. It's not often we create that many chances away from home; our only problem was that our finishing was not good enough. Walters especially had an off day. However, I never worry as long as we're creating the chances, which we did many times today against a newly-promoted side in front of their own fans for the first time. I suspect the frustration may come from our lack of signings and there was definitely a sense today that a couple of impact subs could have won us the game, but I was pleased with the performance and am now really looking forward to the signings. A happy Potter. My frustration and I expect that of many comes from seeing a system of play that has need wretched in terms of achieving results being repeated yet again. One year soon our home results aren't going to carry us over the line.
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Post by Homzy on Aug 21, 2011 18:59:06 GMT
The reaction of a lot of Stoke fans to today's result has convinced me that expectations have reached unrealistic levels. I'm by no means a happy clapper but there was not a lot wrong with our performance today, even before the sending-off. I thought we were unfortunate to be behind at half-time (we created more chances, but Walters' touch let him down once or twice, and Etherington should have done better) and the second half was pretty much all Stoke. It's not often we create that many chances away from home; our only problem was that our finishing was not good enough. Walters especially had an off day. However, I never worry as long as we're creating the chances, which we did many times today against a newly-promoted side in front of their own fans for the first time. I suspect the frustration may come from our lack of signings and there was definitely a sense today that a couple of impact subs could have won us the game, but I was pleased with the performance and am now really looking forward to the signings. A happy Potter. My frustration and I expect that of many comes from seeing a system of play that has need wretched in terms of achieving results being repeated yet again. One year soon our home results aren't going to carry us over the line. I thought we were ever so slightly more adventurous today than in most of our away games last season, but I'd agree that a vast, vast improvement is needed. I've seen signs that we're willing to keep possession a bit more though - I appear to be in the minority, but there were times today when we really looked comfortable with the ball. The problem, for me, was that we lacked penetration, but I think that'd have been different had JP stayed on and Walters been in form. It's abundantly clear we need reinforcements.
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Post by adri2008 on Aug 21, 2011 19:25:08 GMT
Good point today - the performance was hit and miss but i've seen us play far worse.
We have a good first team but no squad and no game changers until Fuller recovers, I'm sure the management are well aware of this issue - I'll start moaning if nobody is brought in during the next 10 days.
Why the transfer window doesn't shut before the season starts is beyond me, everything seems to be on hold each year until floppy chops finally decides to make his move
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Post by foxysgloves on Aug 21, 2011 19:54:55 GMT
The reaction of a lot of Stoke fans to today's result has convinced me that expectations have reached unrealistic levels. I'm by no means a happy clapper but there was not a lot wrong with our performance today, even before the sending-off. I thought we were unfortunate to be behind at half-time (we created more chances, but Walters' touch let him down once or twice, and Etherington should have done better) and the second half was pretty much all Stoke. Exactly my thoughts. Don't forget that was Norwich's first home game and as we (v Villa) and Burnley (v Utd) and several others have shown before it was never going to be easy. Not sure what some expect. Agreed some of Pulis's selections are baffling but we have a bunch of players working their bollox off for the club and maybe we should applaud that rather than snipe and take cheap shots. Some of the crap I read re. Whelan, Woodgate and others is pure shite. It's not often we create that many chances away from home; our only problem was that our finishing was not good enough. Walters especially had an off day. However, I never worry as long as we're creating the chances, which we did many times today against a newly-promoted side in front of their own fans for the first time. I suspect the frustration may come from our lack of signings and there was definitely a sense today that a couple of impact subs could have won us the game, but I was pleased with the performance and am now really looking forward to the signings. A happy Potter.
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Post by ratters on Aug 21, 2011 20:03:39 GMT
Anyone expecting anything more than a point away from home at any ground in the premier league is being unrealistic in my book, if someone had offered me that result before the game i would have took and gone home, as it panned out we could have won. the performance wasn't that bad just lacked a bit of quality on delivery etc but you cant fault the effort, and again looked pretty sound at the back, they had one chance second half and we were beginning to bang on the door before the sending off.
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Post by werrington on Aug 21, 2011 20:08:49 GMT
Anyone expecting anything more than a point away from home at any ground in the premier league is being unrealistic in my book, if someone had offered me that result before the game i would have took and gone home, as it panned out we could have won. the performance wasn't that bad just lacked a bit of quality on delivery etc but you cant fault the effort, and again looked pretty sound at the back, they had one chance second half and we were beginning to bang on the door before the sending off. I;m elated at a piss poor 1st half showing and a point against a team just promoted and who went down to 10 men for the majority of the 2nd half?.....some stoke fans eh Edit....that wasnt aimed at you ratters...i;ve just realised i had pressed the quote button
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 20:10:55 GMT
A point isn't a bad result away in the Premier League.
A point when you're stuck playing Danny Pugh on the wing for 70 minutes away from home is a very decent point indeed.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 20:11:55 GMT
A point isn't a bad result away in the Premier League. A point when you're stuck playing Danny Pugh on the wing for 70 minutes away from home is a very decent point indeed. Especially 48 hours after a grueller in Switzerland on a plastic pitch.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Aug 21, 2011 20:16:25 GMT
A point isn't a bad result away in the Premier League. A point when you're stuck playing Danny Pugh on the wing for 70 minutes away from home is a very decent point indeed. And in fairness to Pughy he didn't play that badly. My God we need some help for Matty and JP though!
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Aug 21, 2011 20:23:32 GMT
It wasn't great but I'll take points any which way they come. If you'd have offered me 2 points and an unbeaten record before the Chelsea and Norwich games, I'd have taken it. We were pretty awful in the first 45 and we put ourselves under pressure unnecessarily. A point away from home is never a bad result although I would've expected us to play better today.
New signings are an absolute must.
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