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Post by imnotbob on Aug 21, 2011 17:09:27 GMT
Once again I see Homzy is the voice of reason.
Were we frustrating to watch today? - YES!
Were there signs of a hangover from Switzerland? - YES!
Did we look distinctly lacking in our finishing? - YES!
Do we need those 5 or 6 players Tony keeps mentioning to cover us in what could be a very long season if we progress in Europe - YES!
HOWEVER! Reading some of the absolute tripe posted in a number of threads here you'd think we'd played the worst football in the history of the game and got slaughtered by Norwich, which clearly isn't true.
I get the argument that people make frustrated posts because they feel so passionate about our team and I fully support that right to express their passion, i really do. But seriously, reading some of the utter arse gravy posted on here gets me a lot more frustrated that watching a Stoke performace like todays! Unrealistic expectations is an understatement!
Now, IF (and it's still a big IF) we don't sign those extra players by deadline day, i'll be a lot more nervous. I fear it could well impact our season. There's still a week and a half to go though, and I fully expect AT LEAST a couple more signings. And even if we didn't make any more signings (an HIGHLY UNLIKELY scenario) I've still yet to see anything that makes me thing we are definite relegation fodder. It would be one hell of a tricky season for sure, and we'd have to rely on some of our fringe players on occassion. It would be no worse that the squad that saw us survive our first season in the Prem though. To be honest, if we didn't sign any more players (again i stress - A HIGHLY UNLIKELY SCENARIO!) I'd fully expect Pulis to pretty much throw all European games and concentrate on the league, and rightly so.
Anyway - point is:
Homzy - thak God you and a few others are around here to try to beat some sense into people!
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 17:10:14 GMT
VERY. Burnley beat ManUre in their first home game after promotion. Today was Norwich's cup final and the 2nd biggest crowd ever since they seated Carrow Road. So why did Bolton go to QPR and demolish them 4-0? Excuses excuses march. Bolton had 4 shots!! Today was one of our toughest games this season, especially as we have only just travelled back from a plastic pitch in Switzerland. I am pleasantly surprised we didn't suffer a heavy defeat. The results of promoted teams tends to start with enthusiatic progress before fading in November and hitting rock bottom in March. Swansea and Norwich are already doomed from their performances so far. QPR should survive if they spend big this week.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:10:49 GMT
VERY. Burnley beat ManUre in their first home game after promotion. Today was Norwich's cup final and the 2nd biggest crowd ever since they seated Carrow Road. So why did Bolton go to QPR and demolish them 4-0? Excuses excuses march. Why did all those teams come to the Brit in our first season up and leave without taking all three points? It isn't as black and white as "promoted team, should be beating them". It's not as if we sat back - we had loads of chances despite only having a patched up team to put out. In that context, it's a decent result and not too bad a performance.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:12:18 GMT
Agree with Homzy. I didn't think the performance was that bad. I don't think we have any right to go away anywhere in the Premier League and get three points - and especially not in a game in which we're stuck with Danny Pugh out wide for 70 minutes. We're patched up and threadbare at the moment (yes, down to our transfer policy, which the manager and others have to take responsibility for) and in that context, any result away from home is a good one. As homzy said, we were more positive and created far more chances away from home than normal. Promoted teams have to make their home form count. In our first year up we'd have slaughtered fans moaning about how they should be winning at "little Stoke" as bertie big bollocks dickheads. It's not a great time to be playing a promoted team away and we've come away having created the bulk of the chances. There was a lot wrong with the performance (the usual stuff in the main) but I don't think we were anywhere near as bad or lucky as some are making out. Good Post Rob! The only thing I disagree with is the Transfer Policy Dig (If that's what is was) I think that unless the Window is moved to the end of July, then this will always be the case, it's just a normal negotiation, and it's down to whoever Blinks first. I actually agree with not letting Agents and certain No Mark Players fuck us over, so as frustrating as it undoubtably is, then we'll probably need to get used to it. Agree that the window should close before the season starts. I just think we're too narrow in who we look at and don't take the foreign market and young players lower down the totem pole as seriously as we should. But that's a discussion for another thread probably
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Post by Roy Cropper on Aug 21, 2011 17:12:53 GMT
I've been away all day and only heard the result and basic overview of the game (what to me seemed like a good point away at a very up-for-it Norwich full of hope and expectation), got back and couldn't believe what I've been reading off some posters.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2011 17:13:51 GMT
1. No I didn't. 2. And you're entitled to that opinion ... my opinion (as I said originally) is that I hate those types of posts, for me 'broad' means 'vague', which ultimately means 'pointless'. If you've got a specific opinion, make it and then let's debate it. 1. Are you kidding me Paul?! See below. I hate these type of threads. They're so vague, they become impossible debate. Which reactions are you talking about Homzy? If you addressed the specific thread with which you disagree, then maybe a proper debate could be had.2. If I have not given any specific opinion in this thread then I must have gone mad. I've given loads of opinions! You've are getting got there in the end, by debating specific points, rather than just being shocked by the 'incredible reaction' to today's result. Some of the 'negativity' has merit and some of it doesn't.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Aug 21, 2011 17:14:06 GMT
Why can't people get their head around a very simple idea, the majority are frustrated at our lack of signings to help our current squad of players that are already in need of a rest through playing so many games in such a short space of time. It's not moaning for the sake of it or an attack on TP or the players but on the team of people involved in out transfer dealings.
Everyone knew we had a very thin squad of players and that we could end up with quite a few extra games if we reached the group stage of Europe so the frustration at the lack of signings is magnified. Heads need to role as we have left ourselves in a position where we need a hell of a lot of luck for things to fall out way and Medicaid to go to plan or we could be left with panic signings of extremely average players. We have left ourselves in a position where we have have to sign players and even of out A-list players don't sign, then we have to sign someone as we simply don't have the bodies to compete on all fronts and this could led panic signing of shit players while we let Reo Coker, perfect for us, move to Bolton for nothing.
I think we will sign 3-4 players before the window closes but we could end up signing average players just to moe up the numbers.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 17:14:06 GMT
Good Post Rob! The only thing I disagree with is the Transfer Policy Dig (If that's what is was) I think that unless the Window is moved to the end of July, then this will always be the case, it's just a normal negotiation, and it's down to whoever Blinks first. I actually agree with not letting Agents and certain No Mark Players fuck us over, so as frustrating as it undoubtably is, then we'll probably need to get used to it. Agree that the window should close before the season starts. I just think we're too narrow in who we look at and don't take the foreign market and young players lower down the totem pole as seriously as we should. But that's a discussion for another thread probably I think the 5 players whose surnames begin with W have done themselves no favours today and could all be settling for a place on the bench when the new signings come in.
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Post by barmystokie1 on Aug 21, 2011 17:14:40 GMT
The result was decent enough and the 2nd half performance was better (wasn't hard though|), but it was not that impressive. Could you really see us scoring if they didn't have a man sent off? I'm really not so sure. There was no creative spark at all until then. Shotton did make a big difference coming on, giving an option to Matty when we attacked.
There are people exaggerating and going "over the top" today. However in the main a lot of these concerns are completley justified as far as I'm concerned. We keep hearing noises about how "close we are to signings," but the stone cold, hard facts are that if tony's brinkmanship game does not pay off we are in serious shit. At the moment you take away etherington and pennant both from this team (which at the moment injuries to both looks extremely likely) and I don't care if we had Villa, Aguero and Drogba up front we still would struggle to score.
Its ridiculous people are being so critical and possibly not far away from calling for the managers head, but he has firmly made his bed and if stoke's website doesn't sparkle in the next few days, as we see nice, shiny signings then Pulis will have put himself significantly on the back foot and under unnecessary pressure for the rest of the season. I cannot believe there is not a plan for the next 10 days though and so Homzy if you say it should be a good week, then I will believe you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:16:26 GMT
Agree that the window should close before the season starts. I just think we're too narrow in who we look at and don't take the foreign market and young players lower down the totem pole as seriously as we should. But that's a discussion for another thread probably I think the 5 players whose surnames begin with W have done themselves no favours today and could all be settling for a place on the bench when the new signings come in. Welease Woderick!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:16:48 GMT
A good point in the circumstances aginst a newly promoted team who were always going to be up for it. I agree with Homzy that expectation has reached unrealistic levels, but strongly disagree about the first half. We were very poor. Second half much better. A point gained away from home with a threadbare squad....We move on!!!
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 17:17:40 GMT
I think the 5 players whose surnames begin with W have done themselves no favours today and could all be settling for a place on the bench when the new signings come in. Welease Woderick! Weally witty ;D
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 17:17:45 GMT
So why did Bolton go to QPR and demolish them 4-0? Excuses excuses march. Why did all those teams come to the Brit in our first season up and leave without taking all three points? It isn't as black and white as "promoted team, should be beating them". It's not as if we sat back - we had loads of chances despite only having a patched up team to put out. In that context, it's a decent result and not too bad a performance. I expected my team to win a game today that, on paper, was one of our easier away games. Never thought it would be easy or a stroll in the park. We would have to work hard, play well and the extra ability we have come through. Why is it unrealistic for a supporter not expecting his side to win against a newly promoted team? A team according to some are already doomed!!!!
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Post by Homzy on Aug 21, 2011 17:17:48 GMT
1. Are you kidding me Paul?! See below. 2. If I have not given any specific opinion in this thread then I must have gone mad. I've given loads of opinions! You've are getting got there in the end, by debating specific points, rather than just being shocked by the 'incredible reaction' to today's result. Some of the 'negativity' has merit and some of it doesn't. I'll be honest pal, I can't for the life of me understand your point. I still haven't referred to any specific threads so can't work out what it is you think I've done as the post has gone on that I didn't do in the original post. But let's just leave it!
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Post by cheadlestokie on Aug 21, 2011 17:19:02 GMT
Paul,I don't know you and I don't know Homzy,but from reading both of your posts you just seem to picking a row and putting forward no points of your own.
I do not even know what you think of today's performance,only that you seem to object to someone else,in this case Homzy,putting his view forward.
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 21, 2011 17:19:58 GMT
Norwich have always had a good home record and a crowd who support them to the hilt. 22,000 season tickets sold; sound familiar.
I reckon Norwich will survive
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Post by Homzy on Aug 21, 2011 17:21:06 GMT
Some good posts by many of you.
Another point I'll make is that our lack of signings is part of the reason why I think today's performance was good.
That was some of our players' fifth competitive game, but only Norwich's second.
We all know new signings are needed but that doesn't mean we should judge the lads that are already here any more harshly. Taking into account the amount of games they've played, the fact we played in Switzerland on Thursday, the fact it was Norwich's first home game, and the fact that we had more possession and more chances, and you've got a good performance in my book.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 17:21:38 GMT
Why did all those teams come to the Brit in our first season up and leave without taking all three points? It isn't as black and white as "promoted team, should be beating them". It's not as if we sat back - we had loads of chances despite only having a patched up team to put out. In that context, it's a decent result and not too bad a performance. I expected my team to win a game today that, on paper, was one of our easier away games. Never thought it would be easy or a stroll in the park. We would have to work hard, play well and the extra ability we have come through. Why is it unrealistic for a supporter not expecting his side to win against a newly promoted team? A team according to some are already doomed!!!! Apart from the top few teams, I can't think of a harder first away game than today. Arsenal would have been easier. This was Norwich at the best they are going to be after successive promotions (as evidenced by the second ever highest attendance at the redeveloped Carrow Road).
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Post by dorsetpotter on Aug 21, 2011 17:23:11 GMT
I don't know what it is with some people on this site, constant moaning and whingeing about everything to do with Stoke, we play shit the players are shit, our lack of signings, then when we are linked with somebody they are shit, reading the match thread today was long endless read of constant moaning, i thought my missus could moan for England but some of you lot make her look non league.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:25:08 GMT
Why did all those teams come to the Brit in our first season up and leave without taking all three points? It isn't as black and white as "promoted team, should be beating them". It's not as if we sat back - we had loads of chances despite only having a patched up team to put out. In that context, it's a decent result and not too bad a performance. I expected my team to win a game today that, on paper, was one of our easier away games. Never thought it would be easy or a stroll in the park. We would have to work hard, play well and the extra ability we have come through. Why is it unrealistic for a supporter not expecting his side to win against a newly promoted team? A team according to some are already doomed!!!! It's not the word "realistic", it's the word "expect". Away from home, you can't take anything for granted at this level if you're not one of the top 6 teams. Especially given that our squad is desperately thin and we were stuck with Champ standard players like Deano and Pugh in the side. And we still created enough chances to win the game. It wasn't as if we were frightened of them and didn't try to win. I think I pretty clearly explained why it isn't as simple as just turning up away at a newly promoted side and winning. Just just chose to ignore it. I'll ask again, did all of those teams who didn't take points off us at the brit when we were a newly promoted team have a legitimate grievance with their manager? Because had we lost all of those games against teams who should have "expected to beat us", you'd have been the first to stick the boot into Pulis.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 17:25:28 GMT
I expected my team to win a game today that, on paper, was one of our easier away games. Never thought it would be easy or a stroll in the park. We would have to work hard, play well and the extra ability we have come through. Why is it unrealistic for a supporter not expecting his side to win against a newly promoted team? A team according to some are already doomed!!!! Apart from the top few teams, I can't think of a harder first away game than today. Until the next away game comes along eh march? Care to make your excuses early for WBA?
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Aug 21, 2011 17:27:26 GMT
Apart from the top few teams, I can't think of a harder first away game than today. Until the next away game comes along eh march? Care to make your excuses early for WBA? ;D Miserable sod. You make me look happy!
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Post by manchesterpotter on Aug 21, 2011 17:27:43 GMT
I think people can be annoyed about today's performance. The simple fact is that if we want to be a top 10 side, then we have to actually try more positive tactics away from home. We should've won the game, but we didn't have enough of a go at them.
We should be winning games like this, especially considering the games we have coming up where points are by no means guaranteed. It's 2 points dropped, but I'm happy with 1 point after our less than average performance.
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2011 17:27:44 GMT
Apart from the top few teams, I can't think of a harder first away game than today. Until the next away game comes along eh march? Care to make your excuses early for WBA? Anyone with a sensible bone in their body knows that playing on Sunday following a tough European night 48 hours earlier is a tough ask. See, it's easy when you try. Seriously, I expect a victory as West Brazil will be very shaky until they get some points on the board.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:28:35 GMT
I think people can be annoyed about today's performance. The simple fact is that if we want to be a top 10 side, then we have to actually try more positive tactics away from home. We should've won the game, but we didn't have enough of a go at them. We should be winning games like this, especially considering the games we have coming up where points are by no means guaranteed. It's 2 points dropped, but I'm happy with 1 point after our less than average performance. We could have had about five had it not been for their keeper!
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 17:28:41 GMT
I expected my team to win a game today that, on paper, was one of our easier away games. Never thought it would be easy or a stroll in the park. We would have to work hard, play well and the extra ability we have come through. Why is it unrealistic for a supporter not expecting his side to win against a newly promoted team? A team according to some are already doomed!!!! It's not the word "realistic", it's the word "expect". Away from home, you can't take anything for granted at this level if you're not one of the top 6 teams. Especially given that our squad is desperately thin and we were stuck with Champ standard players like Deano and Pugh in the side. And we still created enough chances to win the game. It wasn't as if we were frightened of them and didn't try to win. I think I pretty clearly explained why it isn't as simple as just turning up away at a newly promoted side and winning. Just just chose to ignore it. I'll ask again, did all of those teams who didn't take points off us at the brit when we were a newly promoted team have a legitimate grievance with their manager? Because had we lost all of those games against teams who should have "expected to beat us", you'd have been the first to stick the boot into Pulis. I haven't mentioned the Manager AT ALL. I haven't said it was a poor result. I haven't said it was a poor performance. I expected us to win today THAT IS ALL. In the end we scraped a draw against 10 men.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:32:20 GMT
It's not the word "realistic", it's the word "expect". Away from home, you can't take anything for granted at this level if you're not one of the top 6 teams. Especially given that our squad is desperately thin and we were stuck with Champ standard players like Deano and Pugh in the side. And we still created enough chances to win the game. It wasn't as if we were frightened of them and didn't try to win. I think I pretty clearly explained why it isn't as simple as just turning up away at a newly promoted side and winning. Just just chose to ignore it. I'll ask again, did all of those teams who didn't take points off us at the brit when we were a newly promoted team have a legitimate grievance with their manager? Because had we lost all of those games against teams who should have "expected to beat us", you'd have been the first to stick the boot into Pulis. I haven't mentioned the Manager AT ALL. I haven't said it was a poor result. I haven't said it was a poor performance. I expected us to win today THAT IS ALL. In the end we scraped a draw against 10 men. There's never a guarantee away from home in the Premier League if you're not one of the top 6. A win was feasible, but by no means assured. I don't quite see what your beef is and why you're moaning if you think the result and performance was ok?
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Post by boscfc on Aug 21, 2011 17:34:36 GMT
1. Are you kidding me Paul?! See below. 2. If I have not given any specific opinion in this thread then I must have gone mad. I've given loads of opinions! You've are getting got there in the end, by debating specific points, rather than just being shocked by the 'incredible reaction' to today's result. Some of the 'negativity' has merit and some of it doesn't. Is the irony of trying to take the intellectual high ground on this "debate" while posting with words crossed out, lost on you? Playground stuff.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2011 17:38:39 GMT
Who said I was moaning? Where did I say about guarantees?
I EXPECTED Stoke to win today. We didn't - we scraped a draw against 10 men - FACT. A draw isn't the end of the world.
I look forward to next week - more speculation about players who we'll never sign in a million years and the inevitable signing of a Sunderland player.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 17:40:36 GMT
Who said I was moaning? Where did I say about guarantees? I EXPECTED Stoke to win today. We didn't - we scraped a draw against 10 men - FACT. A draw isn't the end of the world. I look forward to next week - more speculation about players who we'll never sign in a million years and the inevitable signing of a Sunderland player. The tone of your posts on this thread suggested you felt we should have won today and that people are right to be aggrieved that we haven't.
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