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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 6, 2011 14:23:07 GMT
Just one more point about capacities. The Green Guide does allow increased capacities for standing areas compared with seating in the ration of 1.8 to 1 - so rail seats would increase capacity ( in fact in Germany they allow 2 to 1). There are two rows standing between each rail when used in standing mode, but you couldn't fully double up because of the 1.8 rule.
Now of course a club could just sell them on a 1 to 1 basis as suggested by salop, either because the exits aren't big enough for the bigger crowd or whatever.
But if that's done it removes the possible financial advantage and there would be no added income to meet the cost of conversion or extra cost of construction. One advantage of rail seats is that clubs could increase capacity, lower ticket prices and still increase gate receipts and catering sales so that everyone wins, including the people in the seats who don't want their view blocked. That obviously depends on the demand being there but the demand can be increased if the prices are lower.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 6, 2011 14:30:27 GMT
Just one more point about capacities. The Green Guide does allow increased capacities for standing areas compared with seating in the ration of 1.8 to 1 - so rail seats would increase capacity ( in fact in Germany they allow 2 to 1). There are two rows standing between each rail when used in standing mode, but you couldn't fully double up because of the 1.8 rule. Now of course a club could just sell them on a 1 to 1 basis as suggested by salop, either because the exits aren't big enough for the bigger crowd or whatever. But if that's done it removes the possible financial advantage and there would be no added income to meet the cost of conversion or extra cost of construction. One advantage of rail seats is that clubs could increase capacity, lower ticket prices and still increase gate receipts and catering sales so that everyone wins, including the people in the seats who don't want their view blocked. That obviously depends on the demand being there but the demand can be increased if the prices are lower. this debat has highlighted how small our concourses actually are. however as shown with the south stand smoking area it would be easy to fence off the area and open the big gates at half time to make space on the concourse or build one store extensions to the turnstiles
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Post by BoxxyTheLost on Jun 6, 2011 14:36:45 GMT
If we were to, as I think Lakeland suggested, use one of the empty corners for the standing area. Would this not allow us to build the concourses bigger than the rest of the stadium?
EDIT: This is obviously just an our stadium rather than focusing on other clubs.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 6, 2011 14:39:01 GMT
JoeinOz that fence is far wedged up your arse I can smell the shit here in Stoke from Down Under.
Well thats good, considering I typed it in Hanley!! ;D ;D
Anyway, whats wrong with seeing both sides of a subject? I see it as a very difficult issue to address. Each side has good points to make, hence both sides are right.
Whilst in the FSA I stood outside the Vic and handed out about 2,500 leaflets to motivate people to demonstrate against the introduction of all seaters. Every person we spoke to opposed all seaters. And how many people responded and were prepared to do something about it? None. Nobody gave a dam. Or they didn't want them but weren't going to actually take any action to prevent it.
All these years on I have mixed opnions. Both sides are right. I'm not going to rush into a view when I am unsure.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jun 6, 2011 16:43:49 GMT
Malcolm, Im basing the suitability observations on comments Im pretty sure came from Richard Smith. I recall the step depth and height were ruled out as being unsuitable for transference to standing usage.
I really do think that the alternative option of permitted standing in certain of the rear sections of the stands is a way forward although clubs will of course point out this will mean a certain shuffling of season ticket positions. it seems more feasable in the short/medium term than the idea that clubs will take the more drastic steps of major reconstruction.
It is a way forward i guess to weening English clubs off the all seater mentality that is there for very understandable reasons.
Im not keen on us returning to a situation where standing areas again breed the type of mentality that made football grounds a battleground. That is another reason why I dont support the proposal to shove standing areas in the corner of stadiums. If they are going to be there at all the should b an integrated element as demostrated in the pictures earlier in the thread. They should not be the cheap to enter option shoved in the worst viewing points in my view.
Apologies for the earlier comments. I was out of order.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jun 6, 2011 16:53:39 GMT
Mark W - regarding Marcolm Clarke's last paragraph in his last post - would it be possible for Jon Darch to be given membership rights to post on this board? If he is the FSF's expert it would be easier and quicker for him to comment on technical points rather than for Malcolm to have to relay them. Cheers John, Dave usually takes care of that but I will have a look when I am at home with proper access. Thx
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 6, 2011 16:54:34 GMT
;D
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 10, 2011 9:45:38 GMT
There some things that have to be borne in mind. Not just for Stoke for all of football.
The Taylor report states clearly that safe seated areas are easily achievable. The introduction of ll seaters was because the authorities couldn't be trusted to implement the changes properly.
Is the hankering after a return to standing based on nostalgia?
Would the cost to convert seated areas to terraces be justified?
No system is flawless, it would need an element of collective responsibility. The moment there is one incident of danger, however innocuous, could lead to all kinds of recriminations. Can football crowds be trested to behave impeccably?
What do you think?
I still haven't made my mind up by the way! ;D
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